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duke richardson
adds to the endearing nature of the man. Interesting that none of the other Stones have commented on this incident..?

Bill has - he said it ain't so. But he also said that the great man was there and helped them carry their gear into the studio,
which is why I think Keith was simply looking in the wrong direction when someone said "look! Muddy Waters!"

Really enjoyed this one, shows Keith's part in The Rolling Stones, his love of the blues and the history of music puts some of the soul in The Rolling Stones.

I see that some have commented on who really started The Stones, and Bill is upset that there is a nice historical marker at the Dartford station. In my opinion, Mick and Keith were there from the beginning, and if they hadn't been there, Brian's band would have lasted the winter....I mean does anyone really care if Brian who loved the blues as much as Mick and Keith gets the credit?
I don't.......he went round the bend, and beat up his women...Mick steers, and Keith is the rudder.

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with sssoul

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Child Of Clay
And maybe, just maybe, some kid out there will see how it's Brian who owns the stage for that I Just want To Make Love To You-clip.

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DandelionPowderman
It's in the eye of the beholder. I see Mick owning the stage

But it was Brian who boinked Dean Martin's daughter after the show

You know how guitar players are...

excellent documentary
ICT for everyone
blues, waits, reggae, country, and definitions of exciting keith.
"I'm not aging, I am evolving"

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onestep
Really enjoyed this one, shows Keith's part in The Rolling Stones, his love of the blues and the history of music puts some of the soul in The Rolling Stones.

I see that some have commented on who really started The Stones, and Bill is upset that there is a nice historical marker at the Dartford station. In my opinion, Mick and Keith were there from the beginning, and if they hadn't been there, Brian's band would have lasted the winter....I mean does anyone really care if Brian who loved the blues as much as Mick and Keith gets the credit?
I don't.......he went round the bend, and beat up his women...Mick steers, and Keith is the rudder.

I dont know, Brian did alot more than beat up his women. Without him Keith would be at the docks and Mick at LSE. Anita would be on the rocks.

Well, Bill Wyman's story is that, at their first cost to Chess, Muddy came out and helped them carry their guitars into the studio. Is this story true?

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john lomax
Well, Bill Wyman's story is that, at their first cost to Chess, Muddy came out and helped them carry their guitars into the studio. Is this story true?

I have this image now of the guys at chess rolling around laughing at the stones because they kept saying "oh yeah that guy over there is muddy waters" guess we will never know if Muddy was ever there that day

and I have an image of Marshall Chess later telling Keith: " Muddy Waters was never in there painting that ceiling"..

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Turner68
having listened to this version's of Keith's story I'm inclined to think that perhaps someone at Chess did tell Keith "that's muddy waters up there" to pull his leg, and Keith never realized they were having fun with him. seems like that's the best explanation for the whole thing. keith makes it clear that he'd never met muddy before and didn't recognize him, but rather someone told him who "muddy" was.

Yeah, perhaps, you and with sssoul are right and someone was pulling Keith's leg. It's easy to imagine a young impressionable Keith falling for something like that. But Keith probably knew what Muddy looked like, he's on the cover of just about every record he's done, his big mug plastered on the infamous Rolling Stone record that Brian used to name the band even.

I just think it's a bit derogatory to say Muddy was painting the ceiling considering what a great artist and great influence on the Stones he was. Even if Keith believed that's who he saw it just doesn't feel right to go blabbing about it. Maybe he was trying to make a statement like "wake up America, look how you are treating your black people, this guy is an artist, man" and obviously he has had second thoughts about how it comes across, hence the change of story. Considering Marshall has repeatedly told him it never happened, how would he possibly have been able to now attach the motivation that "it's just the kind of guy Muddy was", to the story after all these years?

If he's going to tell a story about Muddy, he should talk about his music and what it meant to him and how it influenced him, not this questionable tale of Muddy the good natured handyman. Some people are going to believe that stuff and it's just a bit unfair to the legacy of the man, imo

Did you not watch the movie? He talks about muddy as a hero and describes him as a great person and musician. Muddy waters dominates the movie more than any other influence.It would be more valid to say that it focuses on muddy too much over the other blues men. No lack of love for muddy in the movie.

Also Keith makes it clear that he did not recognize muddy and that someone told him that it was muddy painting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-21 19:16 by Turner68.

No I haven't seen the film yet Turner, saving the experience for when I need a Keith fix actually, being a bit overwhelmed by his presence in my life this week.

Delighted to hear that Keith gives it up for Muddy in such a loving and respectful way, Muddy's influence on rock and roll can never be understated, imo.

If Keith did say he didn't recognize Muddy but someone told him, that seems like another slight change in his story, but certainly one that is more believable. Recalling earlier quotes from Keith and the one from Marshall below that say that Keith actually saw Muddy.

"MC: I’ve laughed in his face many times as he’s insisted he saw Muddy up a ladder with a paint brush in hand."

It's really not all that important, clearly a case where the story and legend has grown bigger than the brief reality of that day in 1964.

RIP Muddy. Love Live Keith.

He said Muddy Waters' music was "the most powerful music I've ever heard".

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Naturalust
No I haven't seen the film yet Turner, saving the experience for when I need a Keith fix actually, being a bit overwhelmed by his presence in my life this week.

Delighted to hear that Keith gives it up for Muddy in such a loving and respectful way, Muddy's influence on rock and roll can never be understated, imo.

If Keith did say he didn't recognize Muddy but someone told him, that seems like another slight change in his story, but certainly one that is more believable. Recalling earlier quotes from Keith and the one from Marshall below that say that Keith actually saw Muddy.

"MC: I’ve laughed in his face many times as he’s insisted he saw Muddy up a ladder with a paint brush in hand."

It's really not all that important, clearly a case where the story and legend has grown bigger than the brief reality of that day in 1964.

RIP Muddy. Love Live Keith.

When you see the movie (if you do), you will be very happy with how Keith talks about Muddy overall as well as a number of their other influences. The movie is in part an homage to those influences (Chuck Berry, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Howling Wolf) and is a lot of fun in that respect. There's a funny scene where he talks about how the old country singers were much more wild than rock and rollers.

At the end as Keith talks about how people like Muddy were his idols, elder statesmen playing their music til they dropped, and the interviewer says "well, you are kind of like that now yourself" (referring to legend as well as old age, IMO) and Keith is clearly caught off guard. It's one of the most compelling moments in the film.

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Naturalust
Yeah, perhaps, you and with sssoul are right and someone was pulling Keith's leg.

Just for the record, I don't think anyone was pulling his leg.
I think - well, I've already posted what I think. :E

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with sssoul

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Naturalust
Yeah, perhaps, you and with sssoul are right and someone was pulling Keith's leg.

Just for the record, I don't think anyone was pulling his leg.
I think - well, I've already posted what I think. :E

As far as carrying equipment into the studio, I once worked a show with BB King and was kind of shocked to watch him carry his own gear into the theater. We offered to help and he shrugged us off and said something like he's been doing this for years and knows what he's doing....of course you do Mr. King. That kind of humility and grace just made him more of a hero to this young guitar player.

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Naturalust
No I haven't seen the film yet Turner, saving the experience for when I need a Keith fix actually, being a bit overwhelmed by his presence in my life this week.

Delighted to hear that Keith gives it up for Muddy in such a loving and respectful way, Muddy's influence on rock and roll can never be understated, imo.

If Keith did say he didn't recognize Muddy but someone told him, that seems like another slight change in his story, but certainly one that is more believable. Recalling earlier quotes from Keith and the one from Marshall below that say that Keith actually saw Muddy.

"MC: I’ve laughed in his face many times as he’s insisted he saw Muddy up a ladder with a paint brush in hand."

It's really not all that important, clearly a case where the story and legend has grown bigger than the brief reality of that day in 1964.

RIP Muddy. Love Live Keith.

I hadn't heard this Muddy painting story till I watched UNDER THE INFLUENCE, so have no real awareness of its veracity and the various versions that have floated around. One thing about the film's version that put me off, though, is that Keith adds an element of self-aggrandizement to his story. At the very end of the anecdote, almost under his breath, he quotes Muddy as having said something like "thanks for what you're doing with my music." I don't know whether Muddy would have said this in 1964, or whether he had begun to profit in any way from the exposure bands like The Stones would ultimately give old blues artists. (I have heard just as many stories over the years of those grizzled veterans being resentful of all the money the whippersnappers were making off their sound.)

In any event, I thought it was a sour note in the film. It took the focus off Muddy and put it on Keith as the champion if Chicago blues.

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keithglimmer
I noticed that he repeats the Muddy Waters painting the ceiling in 1964 story. I've always found that a little hard to believe but apparently Keith insists it happened. Oh, well...I remember all kinds of stuff that never actually happened too.

i actually knew someone like that once,he would tell a bullshit story and then a year later say"remember that time" and you'd be going "uh,you made that up to get out of a jam..,we both know it never happened"- he'd say "oh yeah,right"

i think keith just prefers his own reality not really caring that it may make people who actually live in the real world a bit upset.

he once made up this story about coming back from the restroom and finding jagger dancing to his record.
mick was asked about it and just said "yeah,that never happened" and kinda laughed and said "keith has a funny way of remembering things sometimes"

he's not being mean,he probably just really wanted mick to like his record so that's what he remembered,real or not.
never mind that muddy was a musician who wore expensive suits and ties,gold watches and rings and never painted anything in his life or that mick thinks steve jordans drumming sucks and wouldnt be dancing in the living room to it-in keithworld that's how it is.

>> that mick thinks steve jordans drumming sucks <<

did Jagger say that in some interview? first I've heard of it..

both of Keith's muddy stories have been debunked. He did not wake up at Wolf's after hanging at Muddys.

I also am sick of Buddy Guy getting it wrong about Wolf being on Shindig. BUddy always says it was Muddy. It was Howlin Wolf.

the best stuff IMO was checking out the gear and the idea that the focus was on music history rather than image/druggy crap.
I sure have found lots of artists reading and listening to Keith name his favs. I would have taken ages to find Gregory Isaacs years ago. Or Rev Robert Wilkins.

Keith name checked the Louvins on the iHeart interview.

all well worth hearing.

Good point about the drugs. Hardly mentioned - nice change.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-21 23:09 by Turner68.

The Muddy painting the Chess ceiling story should just be put to bed. Seems a stretch, but what is most important is that Keith has always revered the Chess master bluesmen, especially Muddy. The Stones helped make those guys alot more money than they otherwise would have been able to by turning white people onto the blues. I was one of those young kids that found the blues through the Rolling Stones back in the early days. The Rollin Stones were blues purists, disciples if you will of that genre.

The new Keith album is really enjoyable. Would be great if he could go out and do something like 10 shows to support this new release.

Ron Wood tells the story of being at the hyde park 69 show..that too is nonsense. He was in Detroit with Jeff beck that day.

old guys "fixing" stories to spice em up..nothing new but when it is supposed to be history it is a bit uglier

yes the stones turned alot of people onto the blues.and so did eric clapton and jimmy page and every other band and guitar player coming out of england in the 60's.

that doesnt give you a free pass to make up a bullshit story about a guy being so broke he had to paint a ceiling when he never was,

i read an article about this in blues musician magazine a few years ago and believe me they weren't happy about it and not nearly as understanding as rock fans are.

it would be like one of the guys in a young band saying "yeah,the stones really influenced us.i remember when they were broken up in the 80's i saw keith richards cleaning the toilet at a club i was at.he had spent all the stones money and looked at me like,this could be you in a few years,i never forgot that man"

Add me to the list of people watching 'Under the Influence' with a big dopey grin on their faces throughout. I loved the documentary, beautifully, lovingly filmed. Keith has such joy in his eyes when he talks about music and even more so when he actually plays. The bits with him playing the piano were very cool, haven't actually seen him play one very often. His knowledge of and feel for music is incredible, I'm glad they made this film mainly about Keith's musical influences, no need to bring up the drugs, etc.

Btw, my middle name is Irene so I'm taking 'Good Night Irene' rather personally, brought tears to my eyes when they showed the snippet of it. I was out of town when my CD arrived so I haven't listened to the whole thing yet, working on it though.

Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind...

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LongBeachArena72

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Naturalust
No I haven't seen the film yet Turner, saving the experience for when I need a Keith fix actually, being a bit overwhelmed by his presence in my life this week.

Delighted to hear that Keith gives it up for Muddy in such a loving and respectful way, Muddy's influence on rock and roll can never be understated, imo.

If Keith did say he didn't recognize Muddy but someone told him, that seems like another slight change in his story, but certainly one that is more believable. Recalling earlier quotes from Keith and the one from Marshall below that say that Keith actually saw Muddy.

"MC: I’ve laughed in his face many times as he’s insisted he saw Muddy up a ladder with a paint brush in hand."

It's really not all that important, clearly a case where the story and legend has grown bigger than the brief reality of that day in 1964.

RIP Muddy. Love Live Keith.

I hadn't heard this Muddy painting story till I watched UNDER THE INFLUENCE, so have no real awareness of its veracity and the various versions that have floated around. One thing about the film's version that put me off, though, is that Keith adds an element of self-aggrandizement to his story. At the very end of the anecdote, almost under his breath, he quotes Muddy as having said something like "thanks for what you're doing with my music." I don't know whether Muddy would have said this in 1964, or whether he had begun to profit in any way from the exposure bands like The Stones would ultimately give old blues artists. (I have heard just as many stories over the years of those grizzled veterans being resentful of all the money the whippersnappers were making off their sound.)

In any event, I thought it was a sour note in the film. It took the focus off Muddy and put it on Keith as the champion if Chicago blues.

Not having seen the flick yet I can't really comment on the context of that comment but perhaps it just came out as another Keith memory of Muddy. It's certainly possible Muddy could have said something like that years later to Keith or perhaps to Marshall Chess to pass on to Keith and he was just kind of rambling through his Muddy memories and that was one of them. There really is no doubt Keith and the other bands of the day, like The Allman Bros. helped those cats out so I wouldn't read too much into it. Muddy probably made more money from people covering his songs than he did from his own records. Besides, even though it's nice to imagine stars like Keith as super humble with respect to such things, he is Keith @#$%& Richards and if he can't be a bit self-aggrandizing I'm not sure who can. LOL


I realize the whole "because he was that kind of guy" line actually comes from none other than Marshall Chess and is quoted in context with him saying it was possible that Muddy helped carry their gear into the studio in 1964 (in According To The Rolling Stones). I think Keith is just starting to get the stories mixed up and just tagged that part onto the ceiling painting story because it sounds nicer and he is getting a bit foggy about details from 50+ years ago.

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duke richardson
>> that mick thinks steve jordans drumming sucks <<

did Jagger say that in some interview? first I've heard of it..

No, he said the drums were too loud in the mix on TIC.

So what if Muddy was painting the damn ceiling? Maybe the Chess Brothers paid him extra to do so and Muddy figured money is money. It's a little hard to believe at that point, Summer of '64, that the people at Chess were all that aware of what the Stones were doing for them. Maybe after they HEARD them play, they began to understand. And THEN when the royalty checks started coming in to Berry, and Dixon, they really appreciated them.

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lem motlow
yes the stones turned alot of people onto the blues.and so did eric clapton and jimmy page and every other band and guitar player coming out of england in the 60's.

that doesnt give you a free pass to make up a bullshit story about a guy being so broke he had to paint a ceiling when he never was,

i read an article about this in blues musician magazine a few years ago and believe me they weren't happy about it and not nearly as understanding as rock fans are.

it would be like one of the guys in a young band saying "yeah,the stones really influenced us.i remember when they were broken up in the 80's i saw keith richards cleaning the toilet at a club i was at.he had spent all the stones money and looked at me like,this could be you in a few years,i never forgot that man"

Keith has described that everybody was helping out at Chess, not that Muddy was broke.

There also several quotes from the old blues guys where they thanked the Stones for kickstarting their careers again. In this film this appreciation was clearly stated by Buddy Guy.

The Stones were bigger than Creem, as you know, and Zeppelin weren't pure blues or r&b enough for those blues guys to get the same boost + they were even nastier and more cynical when they stole their songs

It's amazing to read people who clearly haven't seen the movie claim Keith is making Muddy look bad when a good part of the film is dedicated to Keith's worship of Muddy. No one else is talking about the ceiling quote except 10 or 15 people on here. The rest of the world watched the movie and took away that Muddy Waters is keith Richard's god.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-21 23:58 by Turner68.

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onestep
Really enjoyed this one, shows Keith's part in The Rolling Stones, his love of the blues and the history of music puts some of the soul in The Rolling Stones.

I see that some have commented on who really started The Stones, and Bill is upset that there is a nice historical marker at the Dartford station. In my opinion, Mick and Keith were there from the beginning, and if they hadn't been there, Brian's band would have lasted the winter....I mean does anyone really care if Brian who loved the blues as much as Mick and Keith gets the credit?
I don't.......he went round the bend, and beat up his women...Mick steers, and Keith is the rudder.

But Brian was the fuse that set it all off. It was Brian who was into deep blues, and turned Keith Richards onto Robert Johnson. Brian brought the slide guitar to the Stones sound, which was carried on my Taylor and continued by Wood. Brian brought Little Walter style harmonica to the Stones. Mick and Keith as a songwriting duo only occurred because they were successful as a cover band in the group Brian started. Attitude, dress, musical knowledge, were what Brian brought to what became the Jagger/Richards dominated Stones. Brian may not have been effective after the first couple years, but ask the Beatles how important John was to get them to a mass audience to begin with.