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Title5Take1
Ex-Mayor of New York, Ed Koch, died last week and the WSJ today wrote about the state of New York City when he came on the scene. Mick Jagger has said it was that broken-down New York that SHATTERED was about.

"Don't you know the crime rate's going up, up, up, up, up!
To live in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, tough!"

Here's the NYC of SHATTERED in today's WSJ (excerpt):

"Between 1969 and 1977, New York lost an inconceivable 600,000 jobs and 200,000 housing units. The city had vast stretches of abandoned industrial sites, vacated apartment buildings, gas stations and storefronts as well as empty lots over run with garbage. Crime kept rising and morale kept falling.

"But not even the collapse could shake New York's political culture. The city's 1977 Democratic mayoral primary brought out a pack of traditional liberals, including Congresswoman Bella Abzug, New York Secretary of State Mario Cuomo and the hapless incumbent, Abe Beame. They all had union backing of one sort or another, and the next mayor seemed certain to emerge from their ranks.

"Then came the July 1977 blackout and widespread looting and arson. Most of the Democratic candidates talked about how the city needed to become a more caring place. Only one candidate, Ed Koch, who was an also-ran until then, called for bringing in the National Guard to knock heads. He surged to the fore."

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71Tele
Good points, DP! The bridges are indeed one thing musically different about these songs, as well as the three-guitar onslaught (which I have mentioned). Also agree about Wood's role. On that note, I am not known here as a Ron Wood fan (that's an understatement!), but SG really shows how they integrated Wood into the band and at the same time created a "new" Rolling Stones sound. This could have led to wonderful things, but alas, did not, and instead we were treated to a gradually diminishing role for Wood in the studio. But for exactly one album (or 1 1/2 if you include the tunes held back for Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You) we had a really interesting new guitar approach from the Stones that played to Wood's strengths rather than his weaknesses (which were glaringly apparent on songs in the live shows that pre-dated his being in the band).

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minorbyrd
I like it - but if a few tracks weren't there ( Beast Of Burden, Respectable, Faraway Eyes), I probably wouldn't like it as much. When I watched 'Shine A Light', I got a bit frustrated that (what seemed like - may be wrong) more than a few tracks from this album were performed. It was good at the time - & Miss You would have had a big influence on sales - but it ranks lower for me than the BB-GHS era. But I'm just nit-picking - for any other band/artist it would be rated a 'classic album' these days.

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DandelionPowderman

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minorbyrd
I like it - but if a few tracks weren't there ( Beast Of Burden, Respectable, Faraway Eyes), I probably wouldn't like it as much. When I watched 'Shine A Light', I got a bit frustrated that (what seemed like - may be wrong) more than a few tracks from this album were performed. It was good at the time - & Miss You would have had a big influence on sales - but it ranks lower for me than the BB-GHS era. But I'm just nit-picking - for any other band/artist it would be rated a 'classic album' these days.

Wouldn't it always be like that?

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minorbyrd

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DandelionPowderman

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minorbyrd
I like it - but if a few tracks weren't there ( Beast Of Burden, Respectable, Faraway Eyes), I probably wouldn't like it as much. When I watched 'Shine A Light', I got a bit frustrated that (what seemed like - may be wrong) more than a few tracks from this album were performed. It was good at the time - & Miss You would have had a big influence on sales - but it ranks lower for me than the BB-GHS era. But I'm just nit-picking - for any other band/artist it would be rated a 'classic album' these days.

Wouldn't it always be like that?

Absolutely - It's a miracle if I can listen to a newish album more than once now. I don't know whether it's because they're bad or because I've reached my 40s. I suspect it's because the albums are bad!

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minorbyrd

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minorbyrd

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DandelionPowderman

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minorbyrd
I like it - but if a few tracks weren't there ( Beast Of Burden, Respectable, Faraway Eyes), I probably wouldn't like it as much. When I watched 'Shine A Light', I got a bit frustrated that (what seemed like - may be wrong) more than a few tracks from this album were performed. It was good at the time - & Miss You would have had a big influence on sales - but it ranks lower for me than the BB-GHS era. But I'm just nit-picking - for any other band/artist it would be rated a 'classic album' these days.

Wouldn't it always be like that?

:

Absolutely - It's a miracle if I can listen to a newish album more than once now. I don't know whether it's because they're bad or because I've reached my 40s. I suspect it's because the albums are bad!

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slew
Dandelion - I think SG has more than four outstanding songs. Miss You, When the Whip Comes Down, Just My Imagination (I LOVE their take of this song!!!), Far Away Eyes, Before They Make Me Run, Beast of Burden and Shattered are all outstanding in my opinion. The only clunker is Lies.

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DandelionPowderman

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slew
Dandelion - I think SG has more than four outstanding songs. Miss You, When the Whip Comes Down, Just My Imagination (I LOVE their take of this song!!!), Far Away Eyes, Before They Make Me Run, Beast of Burden and Shattered are all outstanding in my opinion. The only clunker is Lies.

I agree that all the songs you mention are great, but I would include Lies as well.

However, Miss You Beast Of Burden, Far Away Eyes and Before They Make Me Run is up there with the best they've ever done, imo. As great as Whip and Shattered are, they're more like fantastic grooves with great lyrics, not as well-crafted as the other. But I really cherish those songs. Imagination, too, even though I like the live versions the most.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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slew
Dandelion - I think SG has more than four outstanding songs. Miss You, When the Whip Comes Down, Just My Imagination (I LOVE their take of this song!!!), Far Away Eyes, Before They Make Me Run, Beast of Burden and Shattered are all outstanding in my opinion. The only clunker is Lies.

I agree that all the songs you mention are great, but I would include Lies as well.

However, Miss You Beast Of Burden, Far Away Eyes and Before They Make Me Run is up there with the best they've ever done, imo. As great as Whip and Shattered are, they're more like fantastic grooves with great lyrics, not as well-crafted as the other. But I really cherish those songs. Imagination, too, even though I like the live versions the most.

How in Jezus' name can one consider Miss You and Far Away Eyes as "up there with the best they've ever done"? Unimaginable. Even BTMMR isn't. Beast is the only decent song on this album. JMI is just a cover and not even an interesting one. Maybe T&A can answer this question. He has the brains of an Einstein.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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slew
Dandelion - I think SG has more than four outstanding songs. Miss You, When the Whip Comes Down, Just My Imagination (I LOVE their take of this song!!!), Far Away Eyes, Before They Make Me Run, Beast of Burden and Shattered are all outstanding in my opinion. The only clunker is Lies.

I agree that all the songs you mention are great, but I would include Lies as well.

However, Miss You Beast Of Burden, Far Away Eyes and Before They Make Me Run is up there with the best they've ever done, imo. As great as Whip and Shattered are, they're more like fantastic grooves with great lyrics, not as well-crafted as the other. But I really cherish those songs. Imagination, too, even though I like the live versions the most.

How in Jezus' name can one consider Miss You and Far Away Eyes as "up there with the best they've ever done"? Unimaginable. Even BTMMR isn't. Beast is the only decent song on this album. JMI is just a cover and not even an interesting one. Maybe T&A can answer this question. He has the brains of an Einstein.

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DandelionPowderman
If you don't like funk or country I get you, kleermaker. If you do, I don't know what to say. Remember, there is a reason why 8 million people bought this album...

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Edward Twining

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kleermaker
I won't spoil all the fun here.

Just some questions to Doxa and Tele.

Doxa, you said: "Let's just say that it [Some Girls] is the BEGGARS BANQUET of the 70's - it saved their career and gave them a new life."

Could/Would you explain that and what "new life" do you exactly mean? And how long did it last? Any opinions on the title of this album?

Tele, you actually said: "SG is smart and fun at the same time". Really? Smart? Smart music?

I'm with you, Kleermaker, i can't warm to 'Some Girls' however many times i listen to it. There is no denying, however, that it's a very well presented album, certainly in terms of the actual sequencing, maybe in that regard it can be compared with Beggars Banquet, where all the pieces fit together perfectly. There is a remarkable freshness to it, but at the same time it does sound incredibly facile and lacking in any real depth. I really don't think it's aged that well in many ways, and the feeling i have is that it is Jagger trying very hard to emulate the attitude of punk. Certainly 'Some Girls' isn't the first time the Stones have been influenced by contemporary sounds, they have spent their career being so, but it is perhaps the first time they have been influenced by a youth culture generation much younger than themselves, who are in many ways out to make a fresh start, by blowing away all those 'tired' old musical dinousaurs. In that regard there are many punk like elements within Jagger's phrasing which sounds incredibly contrived, and songs like 'Lies' for example, sound so derivative from the punk attitude, it is almost laughable in terms of one being expected to be swallowed up with them coming from Jagger's mouth. That's not to say everything with Some Girls contains that punk vibe - i think the element of disco with 'Miss You' works well, in addition to 'Beast Of Burden', and 'Faraway Eyes' is a country novelty song, a while after the Stones had dispensed with that genre on a large scale. I believe in the late seventies the Stones has several optons, because in many ways punk was in danger of making them seem irrelevant. I give them credit in the fact that they rose to the challenge. As Doxa has indicated, Some Girls was the dawning of a new age for the Stones because punk inspired them to shake things up a little, when it appeared their relevance was fading fast. Stripping their sound down and becoming a little less heavy really saw them through to the 81-82 tour, and gave Ronnie a role in the band's sound, apart from just trying to emulate the members that have gone before him.

However, whether Some Girls really touches me is a very different matter, like many of their previous albums tend to do, in terms of stimulating the senses so to speak. Had it not been for the punk explosion, it is doubtful the Stones would ever have envisaged recording such an album. In those terms i'm doubtful Some Girls is really a truly genuine Stones album, at least with regard to it being the group's preferred style (maybe apart from what i read concerning Jagger's view). It's certainly of it's time, for sure, but whether it can transcend time like the big four, i seriously have my doubts.

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DandelionPowderman
It's good

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DandelionPowderman
If you don't like funk or country I get you, kleermaker. If you do, I don't know what to say. Remember, there is a reason why 8 million people bought this album...

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
If you don't like funk or country I get you, kleermaker. If you do, I don't know what to say. Remember, there is a reason why 8 million people bought this album...

8 million sales does not necessarily mean 8 million people have bought the album.