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Redhotcarpet

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman


Out of all his contributions, the only things I don't like are the synths on MR and BS + the nursery rhyme-stuff on GOOMC.

What's the wrong with those? I always find them refreshing and unique when I happen to listen that era. Is there some sort of 'this is holy guitar territory' rule in "Midnight Rambler" that Preston shamelessly breaks with his unorthodoxical instrument? I personally like that kind of 'intervention'. The same with "Cloud" - it is an unique, updated interpretation of the old song, and I think Billy's contribution fits damn well there - it is a big part why the version is so fascinating and stands in its own foot in compared to the original.

- Doxa

Thank you Doxa! You get it. (No offense Dandie).

To each their own...

[www.youtube.com]

video: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-21 17:18 by Redhotcarpet.

Hot Stuff 5/10. I am not so fond of funk, and I am not so fond of the Stones trying to play funk. The solo is original I guess but it doesn't move me much.

Hand of Fate 7/10. Okay rocker, a bit simple. I think I saw someone say this is a "EOMS-type" rocker. I don't see that. It's much more "one-dimensional" than Rocks Off or Down The Line. It's just one open-G riff repeated and Mick growling on top. As such, it's kind of appealing, maybe because it wasn't yet a routine thing for them to do so.

Cherry Oh Baby 3/10. Bad. Their best attempt at "reggae" (or whatever) is "Feel On Baby". And this was their worst.

Memory Motel 6/10. Okay I guess, but I find it boring. Mick is putting on one of his "ballad voices".

Hey Negrita 5.5/10. See "Hot Stuff". Ronnie does great stuff, but it's sort of wasted on me. I give it a 1/2 point more than "Hot Stuff", because I like the freak solo.

Melody 9/10. I love this one. The only song which makes this album special.

Fool to Cry 4/10. Whatever.

Crazy Mama 7/10. Like "Hand Of Fate". They are actually very similar.


Having said all that, I can still listen to the entire album and sort of enjoy the general atmosphere and sound of the album without skipping any song, which for any post-Tattoo-You album is impossible. As such, it still belongs firmly in the pre-80's era.

Hot Stuff 6/10
Hand of Fate 7/10
Cherry Oh Baby 4/10
Memory Motel 4/10
Hey Negrita 5/10
Melody 4/10
Fool to Cry 3/10
Crazy Mama 7/10

Better than IORR, but don't call it a comeback; that didn't come until "Some Girls"

Hot Stuff 9/10
Hand of Fate 6/10
Cherry Oh Baby 7/10
Memory Motel 10/10
Hey Negrita 9/10
Melody 8/10
Fool to Cry 8/10
Crazy Mama 3/10

Hot Stuff 10/10
Hand of Fate 8/10
Cherry Oh Baby 1/10
Memory Motel 10/10
Hey Negrita 10/10
Melody 6/10 (love the version 8/10 i found on yt though)
Fool to Cry 7/10
Crazy Mama 6/10

Hot Stuff 8/10
Hand of Fate 5/10
Cherry Oh Baby 6/10
Memory Motel 10/10
Hey Negrita 2/10
Melody -2/10
Fool to Cry 8/10
Crazy Mama 7,5 /10

Added several hours later: If not visible enough as it stands, for "Melody" read 'minus 2'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-22 11:28 by Witness.

Hot Stuff 7/10
Hand of Fate 9/10
Cherry Oh Baby 8/10
Memory Motel 9/10
Hey Negrita 9/10
Melody 8/10
Fool to Cry 4/10
Crazy Mama 8/10

One day Crazy Mama will be respected for the high-quality rocker it is.

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Turner68
One day Crazy Mama will be respected for the high-quality rocker it is.

Just like Dirty Work one day will be respected and praised the way it actually deserves. Crazy Mama is a fantastic song, no doubt about it. Rocking Rolling Stones at their very best. Black and Blue is one their greatest albums ever.

Mick's vocals on this could be his best ever, add the great production and funky sleeve make for a top drawer stones album.
It got decidedly mixed reviews at the time but it's grown in stature over the years.
Hand of Fate probably the best track for me.

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Olly
An excellent album.

Many critics identify Some Girls as the Stones' return to form; in my opinion that return to form occurred two years earlier with the release of this album.

True! It was the beginning of a new era!

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mainoffender1

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Olly
An excellent album.

Many critics identify Some Girls as the Stones' return to form; in my opinion that return to form occurred two years earlier with the release of this album.

True! It was the beginning of a new era!

Do the 2 of you believe that Mick Taylor leaving is what allowed them to "return to form"? I have never heard this theory of Black and Blue being their comeback album, I'd like to learn more.

Black and Blue was John Peel's favourite Stones album.

Well there wasnt anything good in Taylor leaving but yes it stirred things up and is the reason we got Mandel and Perkins and Wood gave us Negrita and Preston of course did a lot and Ollie changed the whole live sound in a good way (not better but different). So yes, it forced a movement. It changed them from a perfect band to a variety of bands. Sort of.

Hot Stuff 9/10
Hand of Fate 9/10
Cherry Oh Baby 2/10
Memory Motel 4/10
Hey Negrita 2/10
Melody 2/10
Fool to Cry 1/10
Crazy Mama 5/10

Imagine if Wayne Perkins or Harvey Mandel had won the job...
Perkins' stinging/singing solo on HOF is some of the best, and if allowed he would have blazed new trails for the Stones ala Mick Taylor.
And Mandel's guitar on Hot Stuff is fortified funky nastiness that was cutting edge and completely original.
But then Ronnie tears it up on Crazy Mama unlike anything we've heard from him since, and the rest is history...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

An album I completely love; always have since first hearing it (purchased 5th - after the Big 4)

I agree with the posters earlier who put this album, 'Some Girls, 'Tattoo You' and 'Emotional Rescue' as another golden era for the band; these albums and the wealth of outtakes really was a late career (as it was then) resurgence. Plenty of gems from 1975-1981.

It's one of my favourite era's of the band - love that funky, raunchy, decadent feel to the music and to the live shows. The introduction of funk, reggae, disco, new wave and everything else really gave those albums a vitality and vibrancy. Much as I love the Taylor era, the late 70s with Wood and Richards' weaving is just as magical. The live DVD's from '75, '76, '78, '81 & '82 are quite something! And the albums speak for themselves; SG and TY are recognised excellent albums, and I would add 'Black and Blue' to the list also. Plenty outtakes should've/could've made scintillating official releases to boot.

'Black and Blue' has some notable fans; Steve Tyler rates 'Hot Stuff' as one of the greatest Stones tracks; Izzy Stradlin' from GN'R rated it very highly; Nikki Sixx from the Crue named it as the 'coolest album of all time'.

Hugely enjoyable, and so different to what had come before; today it's admired much more than it was then. Great album, one I come back to many times.

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Turner68

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mainoffender1

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Olly
An excellent album.

Many critics identify Some Girls as the Stones' return to form; in my opinion that return to form occurred two years earlier with the release of this album.

True! It was the beginning of a new era!

Do the 2 of you believe that Mick Taylor leaving is what allowed them to "return to form"? I have never heard this theory of Black and Blue being their comeback album, I'd like to learn more.

A fresher sound and a better produced album, compared with BAB's two predecessors, might be the reason. At least that's what I'm hearing.

Also, the funk-thing they started sparsely on GHS (Heartbreaker, 100 Years Ago) was further developed on BAB. The same with reggae, imo. Although, not hailed as a classic rendition, Cherry Oh Baby was their first reggae on an album, and Hey Negrita has some caribbean flavour as well.

Good-sounding, funky and fresh, that's how I would describe BAB. The better songs came on their next album, though.

So, Olly, and whoever else - why does something that has an island feel to it like You Don't Have To Mean It is assumed to be reggae when it's... an island influenced tune? Of course it's reggae influenced, it's very reggae-esque. But I wouldn't call it flat out reggae like Cherry Oh Baby is (and Too Rude). Even Keith says it's not "reggae" but is reggae influenced. It has a driving beat that is of rock'n'roll.

It was something jamming up the beat and sort of fiddling around, instead of Yeah, it's on beat, it's reggae stuff. That's where it really can express itself but at the same time there's a backbeat on it. It's a mixture, it's a funny mixture, but it's a lovely song to sing.

Keith, 1997

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GasLightStreet
...You Don't Have To Mean It

Keith says
... it's a lovely song to sing.

Keith, 1997

It's also a lovely song to listen to. Can't get enough of it! But enough of that, back to the great B&B album...

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GasLightStreet
So, Olly, and whoever else - why does something that has an island feel to it like You Don't Have To Mean It is assumed to be reggae when it's... an island influenced tune? Of course it's reggae influenced, it's very reggae-esque. But I wouldn't call it flat out reggae like Cherry Oh Baby is (and Too Rude). Even Keith says it's not "reggae" but is reggae influenced. It has a driving beat that is of rock'n'roll.

It was something jamming up the beat and sort of fiddling around, instead of Yeah, it's on beat, it's reggae stuff. That's where it really can express itself but at the same time there's a backbeat on it. It's a mixture, it's a funny mixture, but it's a lovely song to sing.

Keith, 1997

Because when the Stones do different styles of music, they always sound like themselves somehow – they rarely go all in. Charlie won't play the right beat, Mick will sing differently or Keith will play his lick, no matter which type of song they're playing.

So whether it is a reggae-ish tune, a soul number or a blues it won't ever sound totally pure technically (what does anyway?). But the feel that comes across is obvious.

To describe how it sounds it surely is appropriate to call, say, Send It To Me and You Don't Have To Mean It reggae? There are other songs which are more «borderline cases», imo.

Maybe You Dont Have To Mean It is as close as it can get to reggae without being reggae...

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HMS

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Turner68
One day Crazy Mama will be respected for the high-quality rocker it is.

Just like Dirty Work one day will be respected and praised the way it actually deserves. Crazy Mama is a fantastic song, no doubt about it. Rocking Rolling Stones at their very best. Black and Blue is one their greatest albums ever.

Absurdity at its finest! Well, the part about Crazy Mama is good, no argument here, I love that song. But the other part?

Beyond laughable. Inane. Dyspeptic. It will never be respected or praised for anything other than how bad it is. It makes BLACK AND BLUE look like STICKY FINGERS.

BAB is a good album but it's not one of their greatest ever.

A lot of IORRians (including myself) feel that Black and Blue is one of the best-SOUNDING Stones albums (along with ER and/or TY).

But can someone explain to me WHY records produced in the mid-to-late 1970's sound better than records produced 20-25 years later, such as BTB and ABB?

Doesn't this defy logic? With all the technological advances in those 20-25 years, shouldn't the SOUND of the Stones' recordings (irrespective of the quality of the songs themselves) continuously improve??

What am I missing here, please?

Drew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-18 02:24 by drewmaster.

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drewmaster
A lot of IORRians (including myself) feel that Black and Blue is one of the best-SOUNDING Stones albums (along with ER and/or TY).

But can someone explain to me WHY records produced in the mid-to-late 1970's sound better than records produced 20-25 years later, such as BTB and ABB?

Doesn't this defy logic? With all the technological advances in those 20-25 years, shouldn't the SOUND of the Stones' recordings (irrespective of the quality of the songs themselves) continuously improve??

What am I missing here, please?

Drew

Digital. Highs and lows are too loud. Audiophiles on here can tell you why, I'm just relying on my ears.

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Elmo Lewis

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drewmaster
A lot of IORRians (including myself) feel that Black and Blue is one of the best-SOUNDING Stones albums (along with ER and/or TY).

But can someone explain to me WHY records produced in the mid-to-late 1970's sound better than records produced 20-25 years later, such as BTB and ABB?

Doesn't this defy logic? With all the technological advances in those 20-25 years, shouldn't the SOUND of the Stones' recordings (irrespective of the quality of the songs themselves) continuously improve??

What am I missing here, please?

Drew

Digital. Highs and lows are too loud. Audiophiles on here can tell you why, I'm just relying on my ears.

Yes but Elmo if digital inherently produces inferior sound, why would the Stones allow it for their recordings? Are they not paying close attention to sound quality and able to choose the approach that optimizes it?

Drew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-18 03:07 by drewmaster.

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terraplane
Best Ronnie Wood era album. I like it as much as EOMS

Say what... you are a Crazy Mama

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matxil
Hot Stuff 5/10. I am not so fond of funk, and I am not so fond of the Stones trying to play funk. The solo is original I guess but it doesn't move me much.

Hand of Fate 7/10. Okay rocker, a bit simple. I think I saw someone say this is a "EOMS-type" rocker. I don't see that. It's much more "one-dimensional" than Rocks Off or Down The Line. It's just one open-G riff repeated and Mick growling on top. As such, it's kind of appealing, maybe because it wasn't yet a routine thing for them to do so.

Cherry Oh Baby 3/10. Bad. Their best attempt at "reggae" (or whatever) is "Feel On Baby". And this was their worst.

Memory Motel 6/10. Okay I guess, but I find it boring. Mick is putting on one of his "ballad voices".

Hey Negrita 5.5/10. See "Hot Stuff". Ronnie does great stuff, but it's sort of wasted on me. I give it a 1/2 point more than "Hot Stuff", because I like the freak solo.

Melody 9/10. I love this one. The only song which makes this album special.

Fool to Cry 4/10. Whatever.

Crazy Mama 7/10. Like "Hand Of Fate". They are actually very similar.


Having said all that, I can still listen to the entire album and sort of enjoy the general atmosphere and sound of the album without skipping any song, which for any post-Tattoo-You album is impossible. As such, it still belongs firmly in the pre-80's era.

I second most of what you say, just would rate Crazy Mama and Hand Of Fate 5/10 each, they're simply Stones by the numbers and correspondingly boring. Yet the whole album is so different from any other Stones album it's still a joy to listen to as a whole.

Suffers from being a bit too "Hi Fi" for me.

It lacks that deep, murky, almost impenetrable but intriguing mix of their very best work.