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Naturalust
I can only imagine part of the issue with this record was Keith's declining condition, after 7 years as a junkie I think he had pretty much taken all the could get creatively from heroin and was starting to experience the downhill slide. The point where the drugs became as important or more to him than the music. This record kind of represents everyone else coming in to carry the weight to me.
Absolutely. You can see the heavy dependence on Billy Preston and the stable of guitarists they were auditioning to flesh things out. With all that, they could only come up with eight songs, none of which, IMO, is worth listening to. The quality ranges from mediocre to cringe-inducing. Most Stones LPs, even the classics, have a stinker (it's part of the charm), but this is a whole album full. I tried so hard to like this record when it came out, but really, there's nothing there.
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NaturalustQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
NaturalustQuote
DandelionPowderman
A letdown after GHS and IORR? Not for me.
I guess my feeling was that they were going to continue the truly great record run of which I though GHS was firmly included. I was willing to give them one less than stellar attempt (IORR) but when I heard B & B I kind of knew it wasn't just a fluke and the mediocrity had set in. Of course Some Girls was a great comeback but still a departure from flavor of rock that I loved so much about the Stones. It's all a matter of taste as you know, easy to judge now that the years have passed, perhaps a bit more difficult in the context of the times.
Interesting that exactly zero of these songs have been included inn the Stones latest tour, I think they know it wasn't their best music either.
That's why they have played every song on this album in concert?
No, I think they love this album and songs from these sessions. They did play both Memory Motel and at least Worried About You quite frequently last year.
Very often they rehearse Hot Stuff and Fool To Cry.
Maybe you're right but I can't recall any of the tunes played or even up for fan vote on the latest tour. Timeisonourside says Crazy Mama was played in 2015, do you know which show that was?
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DandelionPowderman
Yeah, forgot about CM. It was early on the tour, if memory serves.
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GasLightStreet
Sorry to put a lump in your event horizon of mentalscaping iorr.org, Olly. I'll do better next time to make it more congealing of the coagulation that you like subjectly.
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Redhotcarpet
Well Keith was depending on smack until he met Patti and with her help really tried to quit in 1980. He wasnt cleaner during Some Girls.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
NaturalustQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
NaturalustQuote
DandelionPowderman
A letdown after GHS and IORR? Not for me.
I guess my feeling was that they were going to continue the truly great record run of which I though GHS was firmly included. I was willing to give them one less than stellar attempt (IORR) but when I heard B & B I kind of knew it wasn't just a fluke and the mediocrity had set in. Of course Some Girls was a great comeback but still a departure from flavor of rock that I loved so much about the Stones. It's all a matter of taste as you know, easy to judge now that the years have passed, perhaps a bit more difficult in the context of the times.
Interesting that exactly zero of these songs have been included inn the Stones latest tour, I think they know it wasn't their best music either.
That's why they have played every song on this album in concert?
No, I think they love this album and songs from these sessions. They did play both Memory Motel and at least Worried About You quite frequently last year.
Very often they rehearse Hot Stuff and Fool To Cry.
Maybe you're right but I can't recall any of the tunes played or even up for fan vote on the latest tour. Timeisonourside says Crazy Mama was played in 2015, do you know which show that was?
Yeah, forgot about CM. It was early on the tour, if memory serves.
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keefriffhardsQuote
Redhotcarpet
Well Keith was depending on smack until he met Patti and with her help really tried to quit in 1980. He wasnt cleaner during Some Girls.
This is interesting. Keith himself said he gave up smack in 78' but you know better than the man himself
Interesting, tell more
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LuxuryStonesQuote
keefriffhardsQuote
Redhotcarpet
Well Keith was depending on smack until he met Patti and with her help really tried to quit in 1980. He wasnt cleaner during Some Girls.
This is interesting. Keith himself said he gave up smack in 78' but you know better than the man himself
Interesting, tell more
I read that Richards underwent a long term treatment with methadone to help him kick his heroine addiction.
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LuxuryStonesQuote
keefriffhardsQuote
Redhotcarpet
Well Keith was depending on smack until he met Patti and with her help really tried to quit in 1980. He wasnt cleaner during Some Girls.
This is interesting. Keith himself said he gave up smack in 78' but you know better than the man himself
Interesting, tell more
I read that Richards underwent a long term treatment with methadone to help him kick his heroine addiction, so Patty dated a methadone addict.
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NaturalustQuote
LuxuryStonesQuote
keefriffhardsQuote
Redhotcarpet
Well Keith was depending on smack until he met Patti and with her help really tried to quit in 1980. He wasnt cleaner during Some Girls.
This is interesting. Keith himself said he gave up smack in 78' but you know better than the man himself
Interesting, tell more
I read that Richards underwent a long term treatment with methadone to help him kick his heroine addiction, so Patty dated a methadone addict.
I'm not an expert here but from what I've read of Keith talking about methadone, he was totally against that type of treatment and has spoken with some disgust about it. Likely, he gave it a try and that's probably where he developed such a strong opinion about it. I doubt very much he was on methadone when he was dating Patti. I think Keith took more of a black box, cold turkey, plenty of alcohol and other drugs approach to kicking smack.
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NaturalustQuote
LuxuryStonesQuote
keefriffhardsQuote
Redhotcarpet
Well Keith was depending on smack until he met Patti and with her help really tried to quit in 1980. He wasnt cleaner during Some Girls.
This is interesting. Keith himself said he gave up smack in 78' but you know better than the man himself
Interesting, tell more
I read that Richards underwent a long term treatment with methadone to help him kick his heroine addiction, so Patty dated a methadone addict.
I'm not an expert here but from what I've read of Keith talking about methadone, he was totally against that type of treatment and has spoken with some disgust about it. Likely, he gave it a try and that's probably where he developed such a strong opinion about it. I doubt very much he was on methadone when he was dating Patti. I think Keith took more of a black box, cold turkey, plenty of alcohol and other drugs approach to kicking smack.
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Redhotcarpet
Its in at least two or three books maybe also in Life. He said he had to carry a piece when he bought heroin when he was supposedly clean. He seemes to have made the last real effort sometime in March 1980. He did not quit the last time in 1978 but had to maintain the off heroin image from the 1978 tour onwards. Read old gods, life, the 1980 kris ??? (Whats his name) Interview, bockris book and various statemeants ( contradicting as always) with keith. I think youre very naive to think he took a black box cure and then stated off smack. It took him three years after Toronto not three days. He made several attempts though. And he pulled through.
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Naturalust
Getting back on topic here I do recall that Keith, after being initially happy with the result on B&B, came to see this as a period where the Stones were relying too much on side musicians and parlayed that feeling into the more stripped down Some Girls line up and instrumentation. He was right, imo.
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Redhotcarpet
My bob shattered.
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keefriffhardsQuote
Naturalust
Getting back on topic here I do recall that Keith, after being initially happy with the result on B&B, came to see this as a period where the Stones were relying too much on side musicians and parlayed that feeling into the more stripped down Some Girls line up and instrumentation. He was right, imo.
Getting back on topic you say !! Well you brought drugs into it lol
Naturalust
I can only imagine part of the issue with this record was Keith's declining condition, after 7 years as a junkie I think he had pretty much taken all the could get creatively from heroin and was starting to experience the downhill slide. The point where the drugs became as important or more to him than the music. This record kind of represents everyone else coming in to carry the weight to me.
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Bashlets
overall, I think it has aged very well. Although it was initially trashed by critics when it came out, I think the attitude has changed about this one.
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NaturalustQuote
keefriffhardsQuote
Naturalust
Getting back on topic here I do recall that Keith, after being initially happy with the result on B&B, came to see this as a period where the Stones were relying too much on side musicians and parlayed that feeling into the more stripped down Some Girls line up and instrumentation. He was right, imo.
Getting back on topic you say !! Well you brought drugs into it lol
Naturalust
I can only imagine part of the issue with this record was Keith's declining condition, after 7 years as a junkie I think he had pretty much taken all the could get creatively from heroin and was starting to experience the downhill slide. The point where the drugs became as important or more to him than the music. This record kind of represents everyone else coming in to carry the weight to me.
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Naturalust
Getting back on topic here I do recall that Keith, after being initially happy with the result on B&B,
came to see this as a period where the Stones were relying too much on side musicians
and parlayed that feeling into the more stripped down Some Girls line up and instrumentation. He was right, imo.
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with sssoulQuote
Naturalust
Getting back on topic here I do recall that Keith, after being initially happy with the result on B&B,
came to see this as a period where the Stones were relying too much on side musicians
and parlayed that feeling into the more stripped down Some Girls line up and instrumentation. He was right, imo.
If we're going to criticize records for having too many side musicians, we've got to include GHS and IORR in that.
Obviously the "auditioning guitarists" on Black & Blue stand out a lot, but IORR (the album)
sounds a lot more gussied up with non-Stones frills and doodads and ticktocks.