1977 for sure although in a great many ways, Mick was their manager from the point that Andrew left. 1977 was Keith's great Toronto drug bust and Mick saved his ass, saved the band and prevented Keith from serving serious jail time. Mick hired the very best lawyer, made a deal where the band played a free benefit concert, Keith got a slap on the wrist and that was about it. If not for Mick, the Trafficking charges would have STUCK and he would have ENDED the Rolling Stones as we know them!

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mickschix
1977 for sure although in a great many ways, Mick was their manager from the point that Andrew left. 1977 was Keith's great Toronto drug bust and Mick saved his ass, saved the band and prevented Keith from serving serious jail time. Mick hired the very best lawyer, made a deal where the band played a free benefit concert, Keith got a slap on the wrist and that was about it. If not for Mick, the Trafficking charges would have STUCK and he would have ENDED the Rolling Stones as we know them!

How do you know this was all down to Mick.

A Commander is, of course, always in control. They didn't ennoble him for nothing...

In a band that has lasted this long, they have all stepped up to the plate during different periods. Keith with his early song writing, Mick during the tumultuous drug-fueled years, Charlie with his steadiness throughout it all, and Ronnie the peacemaker. You can bet they all supported Mick during this past traumatic year. There is much we don't know about the personal and business dynamics within the band, but I think it's obvious that they now all have each others backs.

Keith did not need the money to SW tour,but it didn't hurt.

Royalties from CD's emergence were strong in late 80's.

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BILLPERKS
Keith did not need the money to SW tour,but it didn't hurt.

Royalties from CD's emergence were strong in late 80's.

Unless you're Mick Taylor.

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dcba
1989. He put the band back on its wheels and sealed a $$$$$$$$$$ deal with Cohl.

Keith who in 1989 was still amazed at how little money he had left (that's junkie lifestyle for you) and how much the 1988 Winos tour had cost him was instantly in love with the new "I'm the breadbaker and you shut up" Jagger!

"You want inflatable dolls onstage for HTW and SFM!? I say that's a greeeeeeat idea, Mick!!"

Then in 1994 Keith went back to "ungrateful/difficult with Mick" mode again. For B2b Mick and Keith were divorced again and they worked on the album separately.

Keith's resentful/negative state (stain?) of mind culminated with the "LIfe" book.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

the 80's was the time when jagger came into his own as a business man-he fleeced walter yetnikoff into thinking his solo albums of stones outtakes and leftovers were gonna have michael jackson level sales and that the stones could still deliver hit records as in the past.it got the band one of the biggest record contracts in history-
he got a sponsor for the 81-82 tour to help pay for the bands expenses [something that had never been done before] and then did the deal with cohl for steel wheels.
it brought the band untold millions and set the stage for what we have seen out of the band ever since.

so it looks like "the commander" really began in the 1980's.as far as musical direction,i dunno pick 20 songs people know and write them down.that's about the only "musical direction" they have.

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Naturalust

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stonesrule
Mick did not choose to "take over". No one else in the band even thought about
"being the "go-to guy." They each saw Mick as being the most capable to deal with Allen Klein, for example, and as someone they could trust. Keith, for example, didn't want to get all the phone calls dealing with the "day to day stuff." Jagger had, for a time, attended the London School of
Economics until the Rolling Stones became a band to be reckoned with. His parents had always felt strongly about him having a "good education."

Individual members looked at every contract that dealt with "income" but not
necessarily with studying bills, tour expenses etc. They had personal lawyers when they deemed it necessary but did not want to be bothered with "band stuff" on a weekly basis.

Jagger in effect became a manager but never really referred to himself in this way to the band. And he was not paid a fee or percentage as "real" managers receive.

There is some interesting stuff in Stanley Booth's book that indicates Mick was the go to guy in 1969 but also some stuff that indicates he was rather cavalier about it all. Obviously he has grown into the role with promoters like Michael Cohl saying they have never seen an artist who was so interested and involved in the minute detail of the business dealings.

I wonder does Mick even have a personal manager? Keith has Jane Rose but I've never heard of anyone managing Mick at that level, at least since Jane Rose left him for Keith. You get the feeling with a couple good lawyers to keep everything legal that Jagger is a force to be reckoned with and one of the best managers in the business.

What about Miranda Guinness ? She is credited as being some sort of manager / assistant, or am I wrong ?

I don't think Mick could be considered as being "commander". Gary Brooker of Procol Harum fame is referred to as being the commander of Procol, and you can see that, from writing the music, playing the piano, and arranging the music. He is referred to, via the Procol website, as being the commander.

Mick isn't the commander of the Rolling Stones; he's an officer of the Rolling Stones, and so too is Keith. Ronnie and Charlie are the "foot soldiers", and Daryl, Chuck, Lisa etc are the hired hands.

When I see Mick and Keith in action, I am mindful of the film Zulu, in which Stanley Baker and Michael Caine played the conflicting officers, whom when it came to the bit, fought together, and would still do so.

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lem motlow

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dcba
1989. He put the band back on its wheels and sealed a $$$$$$$$$$ deal with Cohl.

Keith who in 1989 was still amazed at how little money he had left (that's junkie lifestyle for you) and how much the 1988 Winos tour had cost him was instantly in love with the new "I'm the breadbaker and you shut up" Jagger!

"You want inflatable dolls onstage for HTW and SFM!? I say that's a greeeeeeat idea, Mick!!"

Then in 1994 Keith went back to "ungrateful/difficult with Mick" mode again. For B2b Mick and Keith were divorced again and they worked on the album separately.

Keith's resentful/negative state (stain?) of mind culminated with the "LIfe" book.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

the 80's was the time when jagger came into his own as a business man-he fleeced walter yetnikoff into thinking his solo albums of stones outtakes and leftovers were gonna have michael jackson level sales and that the stones could still deliver hit records as in the past.it got the band one of the biggest record contracts in history-
he got a sponsor for the 81-82 tour to help pay for the bands expenses [something that had never been done before] and then did the deal with cohl for steel wheels.
it brought the band untold millions and set the stage for what we have seen out of the band ever since.

so it looks like "the commander" really began in the 1980's.as far as musical direction,i dunno pick 20 songs people know and write them down.that's about the only "musical direction" they have.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

Sorry lem motlow, but your all over the place with these statements.
Jagger put the Stones on hold for 6 years before Keith was forced into making a solo album he never wanted to do.
Jagger also made a solo album (remember) "She's The Boss" (as if ) before Keith went solo.
Keith never wanted or expected Bruce Springsteen level success, he purposely played small theatres and arenas.
Mick actually came to Keith and wanted to put the Stones back together while Keith was doing his solo things.
Not as you put it, Keith saying, hey old buddy lets make some money with Cohl, although it obviously comes in handy
It was Mick who was expecting Mega Star solo success along the lines of Michael Jackson. Not Keith.
Where do you get your info ?

uh,there was no more than 3 years between stones albums during the 80's.

i'd never heard of keith being "forced " to make a solo record,were there weapons involved?

if keith had springsteen level success with a no.1 or even top 10 record and been playing stadiums he would've told jagger to stuff it.

as it was talk is cheap didnt even make the top 20 and he played theaters because thats how many tickets he could sell.besides flying commercial is not the same as being on the tongue jet.

sorry,but the stones got back together for the money,and keith and mick did it to get back on the big stages,...and for the money.

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lem motlow
uh,there was no more than 3 years between stones albums during the 80's.

i'd never heard of keith being "forced " to make a solo record,were there weapons involved?

if keith had springsteen level success with a no.1 or even top 10 record and been playing stadiums he would've told jagger to stuff it.

as it was talk is cheap didnt even make the top 20 and he played theaters because thats how many tickets he could sell.besides flying commercial is not the same as being on the tongue jet.

sorry,but the stones got back together for the money,and keith and mick did it to get back on the big stages,...and for the money.

Keith says in loads of interviews he did not want to make a solo record, he wanted to carry on with the stones. But as Jagger was making his second solo album, Keith had to do something, so felt he had no option but to go solo.
Keith does not tour for the money.
He does it for himself, the fans, and the money comes with it.

Also the stones did not tour with Undercover, or Dirty Work.
They did not tour between 82' and 89' that's inactive for 7 years. A disaster for a musicians such as Keith, Ronnie, Bill and Charlie..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-23 22:58 by keefriffhards.

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keefriffhards

Quote
lem motlow

Quote
dcba
1989. He put the band back on its wheels and sealed a $$$$$$$$$$ deal with Cohl.

Keith who in 1989 was still amazed at how little money he had left (that's junkie lifestyle for you) and how much the 1988 Winos tour had cost him was instantly in love with the new "I'm the breadbaker and you shut up" Jagger!

"You want inflatable dolls onstage for HTW and SFM!? I say that's a greeeeeeat idea, Mick!!"

Then in 1994 Keith went back to "ungrateful/difficult with Mick" mode again. For B2b Mick and Keith were divorced again and they worked on the album separately.

Keith's resentful/negative state (stain?) of mind culminated with the "LIfe" book.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

the 80's was the time when jagger came into his own as a business man-he fleeced walter yetnikoff into thinking his solo albums of stones outtakes and leftovers were gonna have michael jackson level sales and that the stones could still deliver hit records as in the past.it got the band one of the biggest record contracts in history-
he got a sponsor for the 81-82 tour to help pay for the bands expenses [something that had never been done before] and then did the deal with cohl for steel wheels.
it brought the band untold millions and set the stage for what we have seen out of the band ever since.

so it looks like "the commander" really began in the 1980's.as far as musical direction,i dunno pick 20 songs people know and write them down.that's about the only "musical direction" they have.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

Sorry lem motlow, but your all over the place with these statements.
Jagger put the Stones on hold for 6 years before Keith was forced into making a solo album he never wanted to do.
Jagger also made a solo album (remember) "She's The Boss" (as if ) before Keith went solo.
Keith never wanted or expected Bruce Springsteen level success, he purposely played small theatres and arenas.
Mick actually came to Keith and wanted to put the Stones back together while Keith was doing his solo things.
Not as you put it, Keith saying, hey old buddy lets make some money with Cohl, although it obviously comes in handy
It was Mick who was expecting Mega Star solo success along the lines of Michael Jackson. Not Keith.
Where do you get your info ?

Keefriffhards has it right: Mick failed brilliantly with SHE'S THE BOSS and even brighter with PRIMITIVE COOL and begged Keith to let the Stones happen, not the other way around. Keith needed money? That's ridiculous. He did Jumpin' Jack Flash with Aretha and TALK IS CHEAP.

Stones did UNDERCOVER. Mick started doing demos for SHE'S THE BOSS in March and April of 1984, recorded State Of Shock with Jacko in May and started recording SHE'S THE BOSS in June, REWIND (apparently the first CD release by the Stones) came out in July and more SHE'S THE BOSS sessions in September and October. VIDEO REWIND came out in November. November and December Mick filmed RUNNING OUT OF LUCK. Stones released the last UNDERCOVER single Too Much Blood in December (after Brown Sugar was released for REWIND!).

1985 and... the Stones start working on DIRTY WORK in Paris in January and February. Mick releases Just Another Night in early February. SHE'S THE BOSS comes out in late February. Stones get back to recording in April in Paris for DIRTY WORK and finish in mid-June. Mick releases Lucky In Love in May. Mick records Dancing In The Street with David Bowie at the end of June, does a new version of Hard Woman in July for a single release and does Live Aid in mid July.

July 15 Mick shoots the video for Hard Woman and July 16 the Stones are working on DIRTY WORK through mid-August.

Mid-August the Jagger/Bowie single comes out and in September-October the Stones work on DIRTY WORK some more.

November, Mick's Hard Woman single is released.


What the hell is Keith doing all this time? Aside from working on DIRTY WORK he's hanging out with Bob Dylan and Tom Waits and whoever else.

i know from reading your other posts that you get emotional about keith and i understand that,we all love the guy and everything he stands for.

but you have to understand something,keith says alot of things that aren't really based in reality.

he fronted a tour without the stones in 1979 and there's an interview from around that time where he kicks around the idea of making his own record.he had been planning it for a long time and he expected big things out of it.there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either,but at that stage of the game being in the stones gave all of them a bit of unreal expectations.

as much as we love to buy into the hype,excitement and mythology at the end these guys are professional musicians and they are doing a job.it's like a professional athlete saying they "play for the love of the game"-take that check away and see how quick they're gone.

or to put it another, way how many bars and clubs do any of the stones show up at when they're off the road just to play "for the love of it"?

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lem motlow
i know from reading your other posts that you get emotional about keith and i understand that,we all love the guy and everything he stands for.

but you have to understand something,keith says alot of things that aren't really based in reality.

he fronted a tour without the stones in 1979 and there's an interview from around that time where he kicks around the idea of making his own record.he had been planning it for a long time and he expected big things out of it.there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either,but at that stage of the game being in the stones gave all of them a bit of unreal expectations.

as much as we love to buy into the hype,excitement and mythology at the end these guys are professional musicians and they are doing a job.it's like a professional athlete saying they "play for the love of the game"-take that check away and see how quick they're gone.

or to put it another, way how many bars and clubs do any of the stones show up at when they're off the road just to play "for the love of it"?

The stones did not tour with Undercover, or Dirty Work.
They did not tour between 82' and 89' that's inactive for 7 years. A disaster for a musicians such as Keith, Ronnie, Bill and Charlie..
Whatever you say this is a fact.

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GasLightStreet

Quote
keefriffhards

Quote
lem motlow

Quote
dcba
1989. He put the band back on its wheels and sealed a $$$$$$$$$$ deal with Cohl.

Keith who in 1989 was still amazed at how little money he had left (that's junkie lifestyle for you) and how much the 1988 Winos tour had cost him was instantly in love with the new "I'm the breadbaker and you shut up" Jagger!

"You want inflatable dolls onstage for HTW and SFM!? I say that's a greeeeeeat idea, Mick!!"

Then in 1994 Keith went back to "ungrateful/difficult with Mick" mode again. For B2b Mick and Keith were divorced again and they worked on the album separately.

Keith's resentful/negative state (stain?) of mind culminated with the "LIfe" book.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

the 80's was the time when jagger came into his own as a business man-he fleeced walter yetnikoff into thinking his solo albums of stones outtakes and leftovers were gonna have michael jackson level sales and that the stones could still deliver hit records as in the past.it got the band one of the biggest record contracts in history-
he got a sponsor for the 81-82 tour to help pay for the bands expenses [something that had never been done before] and then did the deal with cohl for steel wheels.
it brought the band untold millions and set the stage for what we have seen out of the band ever since.

so it looks like "the commander" really began in the 1980's.as far as musical direction,i dunno pick 20 songs people know and write them down.that's about the only "musical direction" they have.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

Sorry lem motlow, but your all over the place with these statements.
Jagger put the Stones on hold for 6 years before Keith was forced into making a solo album he never wanted to do.
Jagger also made a solo album (remember) "She's The Boss" (as if ) before Keith went solo.
Keith never wanted or expected Bruce Springsteen level success, he purposely played small theatres and arenas.
Mick actually came to Keith and wanted to put the Stones back together while Keith was doing his solo things.
Not as you put it, Keith saying, hey old buddy lets make some money with Cohl, although it obviously comes in handy
It was Mick who was expecting Mega Star solo success along the lines of Michael Jackson. Not Keith.
Where do you get your info ?

Keefriffhards has it right: Mick failed brilliantly with SHE'S THE BOSS and even brighter with PRIMITIVE COOL and begged Keith to let the Stones happen, not the other way around. Keith needed money? That's ridiculous. He did Jumpin' Jack Flash with Aretha and TALK IS CHEAP.

Stones did UNDERCOVER. Mick started doing demos for SHE'S THE BOSS in March and April of 1984, recorded State Of Shock with Jacko in May and started recording SHE'S THE BOSS in June, REWIND (apparently the first CD release by the Stones) came out in July and more SHE'S THE BOSS sessions in September and October. VIDEO REWIND came out in November. November and December Mick filmed RUNNING OUT OF LUCK. Stones released the last UNDERCOVER single Too Much Blood in December (after Brown Sugar was released for REWIND!).

1985 and... the Stones start working on DIRTY WORK in Paris in January and February. Mick releases Just Another Night in early February. SHE'S THE BOSS comes out in late February. Stones get back to recording in April in Paris for DIRTY WORK and finish in mid-June. Mick releases Lucky In Love in May. Mick records Dancing In The Street with David Bowie at the end of June, does a new version of Hard Woman in July for a single release and does Live Aid in mid July.

July 15 Mick shoots the video for Hard Woman and July 16 the Stones are working on DIRTY WORK through mid-August.

Mid-August the Jagger/Bowie single comes out and in September-October the Stones work on DIRTY WORK some more.

November, Mick's Hard Woman single is released.


What the hell is Keith doing all this time? Aside from working on DIRTY WORK he's hanging out with Bob Dylan and Tom Waits and whoever else.

Thankyou GasLightStreet. The facts speak fot themselves. This is the way it was.
I wonder where people get their distorted view on things..

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tomcasagranda

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Naturalust

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stonesrule
Mick did not choose to "take over". No one else in the band even thought about
"being the "go-to guy." They each saw Mick as being the most capable to deal with Allen Klein, for example, and as someone they could trust. Keith, for example, didn't want to get all the phone calls dealing with the "day to day stuff." Jagger had, for a time, attended the London School of
Economics until the Rolling Stones became a band to be reckoned with. His parents had always felt strongly about him having a "good education."

Individual members looked at every contract that dealt with "income" but not
necessarily with studying bills, tour expenses etc. They had personal lawyers when they deemed it necessary but did not want to be bothered with "band stuff" on a weekly basis.

Jagger in effect became a manager but never really referred to himself in this way to the band. And he was not paid a fee or percentage as "real" managers receive.

There is some interesting stuff in Stanley Booth's book that indicates Mick was the go to guy in 1969 but also some stuff that indicates he was rather cavalier about it all. Obviously he has grown into the role with promoters like Michael Cohl saying they have never seen an artist who was so interested and involved in the minute detail of the business dealings.

I wonder does Mick even have a personal manager? Keith has Jane Rose but I've never heard of anyone managing Mick at that level, at least since Jane Rose left him for Keith. You get the feeling with a couple good lawyers to keep everything legal that Jagger is a force to be reckoned with and one of the best managers in the business.

What about Miranda Guinness ? She is credited as being some sort of manager / assistant, or am I wrong ?

I think she was Mick's Personal Assistant as you say, a bit different role than a Manager although lines between Manager/Agent/Personal Assistant seem to be blurred in many cases.

He does have a publicized agent (Alix Gucovsky) and a publicist (Fran Curtis) but I'm really not sure if he has a personal Manager. No doubt Mick has an ever willing staff working for him but you just get the feeling he really isn't managed by anyone.

Quote
keefriffhards

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
keefriffhards

Quote
lem motlow

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dcba
1989. He put the band back on its wheels and sealed a $$$$$$$$$$ deal with Cohl.

Keith who in 1989 was still amazed at how little money he had left (that's junkie lifestyle for you) and how much the 1988 Winos tour had cost him was instantly in love with the new "I'm the breadbaker and you shut up" Jagger!

"You want inflatable dolls onstage for HTW and SFM!? I say that's a greeeeeeat idea, Mick!!"

Then in 1994 Keith went back to "ungrateful/difficult with Mick" mode again. For B2b Mick and Keith were divorced again and they worked on the album separately.

Keith's resentful/negative state (stain?) of mind culminated with the "LIfe" book.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

the 80's was the time when jagger came into his own as a business man-he fleeced walter yetnikoff into thinking his solo albums of stones outtakes and leftovers were gonna have michael jackson level sales and that the stones could still deliver hit records as in the past.it got the band one of the biggest record contracts in history-
he got a sponsor for the 81-82 tour to help pay for the bands expenses [something that had never been done before] and then did the deal with cohl for steel wheels.
it brought the band untold millions and set the stage for what we have seen out of the band ever since.

so it looks like "the commander" really began in the 1980's.as far as musical direction,i dunno pick 20 songs people know and write them down.that's about the only "musical direction" they have.

that's pretty much it.keith saw himself leading his own band with tom petty or springsteen level success and it didnt pan out.

he had very little success with talk is cheap-[it didnt crack the top 20]-and played theaters for his first solo tour and had to fly commercial.

at this point that cohl/jagger deal was looking real good-"hey,mick ol buddy"

Sorry lem motlow, but your all over the place with these statements.
Jagger put the Stones on hold for 6 years before Keith was forced into making a solo album he never wanted to do.
Jagger also made a solo album (remember) "She's The Boss" (as if ) before Keith went solo.
Keith never wanted or expected Bruce Springsteen level success, he purposely played small theatres and arenas.
Mick actually came to Keith and wanted to put the Stones back together while Keith was doing his solo things.
Not as you put it, Keith saying, hey old buddy lets make some money with Cohl, although it obviously comes in handy
It was Mick who was expecting Mega Star solo success along the lines of Michael Jackson. Not Keith.
Where do you get your info ?

Keefriffhards has it right: Mick failed brilliantly with SHE'S THE BOSS and even brighter with PRIMITIVE COOL and begged Keith to let the Stones happen, not the other way around. Keith needed money? That's ridiculous. He did Jumpin' Jack Flash with Aretha and TALK IS CHEAP.

Stones did UNDERCOVER. Mick started doing demos for SHE'S THE BOSS in March and April of 1984, recorded State Of Shock with Jacko in May and started recording SHE'S THE BOSS in June, REWIND (apparently the first CD release by the Stones) came out in July and more SHE'S THE BOSS sessions in September and October. VIDEO REWIND came out in November. November and December Mick filmed RUNNING OUT OF LUCK. Stones released the last UNDERCOVER single Too Much Blood in December (after Brown Sugar was released for REWIND!).

1985 and... the Stones start working on DIRTY WORK in Paris in January and February. Mick releases Just Another Night in early February. SHE'S THE BOSS comes out in late February. Stones get back to recording in April in Paris for DIRTY WORK and finish in mid-June. Mick releases Lucky In Love in May. Mick records Dancing In The Street with David Bowie at the end of June, does a new version of Hard Woman in July for a single release and does Live Aid in mid July.

July 15 Mick shoots the video for Hard Woman and July 16 the Stones are working on DIRTY WORK through mid-August.

Mid-August the Jagger/Bowie single comes out and in September-October the Stones work on DIRTY WORK some more.

November, Mick's Hard Woman single is released.


What the hell is Keith doing all this time? Aside from working on DIRTY WORK he's hanging out with Bob Dylan and Tom Waits and whoever else.

Thankyou GasLightStreet. The facts speak fot themselves. This is the way it was.
I wonder where people get their distorted view on things..

Ha ha. There clearly wasn't anything of panic with Keith. He finally got a band together and made his album and toured. Keith wasn't competing with Madonna and Michael Jackson like Mick was. He just did the Stones album, played on some recordings with other people and did the Chuck Berry thing and then did his album.

Meanwhile Mick does two shitty albums... and needs the Stones. Keith? "Wait a minute, pal"...

Keith needed money? For what!!?? That's absurd. He sure as hell was no where near being near the idea of whispering 'broke'.

we have this same discussion here every once in awhile and i dont have a "favorite stone" that seems a little 1965,sort of like wondering what each band members favorite color is and you guys seem to have this pretty well thought out-

but why did mick have to beg keith to put the stones back together because his solo career failed?
hadn't charlie,ronnie,bill and mick already decided to work again? what was keiths option,to quit the band?

if jagger had crawled back to the stones after his dismal record sales why did he and keith go back to making records on their own right after steel wheels? seems kinda strange to start the band up and then go back to what you were already doing if you felt so defeated at that point.

could someone source jagger saying he wanted to be a big pop star on his own like prince or madonna? i'm not saying you guys are wrong i just wonder where that came from as opposed to it just being a side project he was working on.
those songs on shes the boss seem a little weak for him to think he could set the world on fire with them.

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GasLightStreet
Meanwhile Mick does two shitty albums... and needs the Stones. Keith? "Wait a minute, pal"...

Keith needed money? For what!!?? That's absurd. He sure as hell was no where near being near the idea of whispering 'broke'.

Never underestimate the ability of a fashion conscious wife and daughters to make you feel like you need more money. The list of people sucking on the teats of Keith Richards is probably pretty long...just sayin.

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Naturalust

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GasLightStreet
Meanwhile Mick does two shitty albums... and needs the Stones. Keith? "Wait a minute, pal"...

Keith needed money? For what!!?? That's absurd. He sure as hell was no where near being near the idea of whispering 'broke'.

Never underestimate the ability of a fashion conscious wife and daughters to make you feel like you need more money. The list of people sucking on the teats of Keith Richards is probably pretty long...just sayin.

I think i am right in saying that in 88' Keith was earning about 5 million a year in royalties. A lot of money then. Hardly desperate for cash for his daughters.

We all have opinions on solo albums (for me, WANDERING SPIRIT is the best of all but I remain a fan of both of Keith's albums). To say Mick failed with SHE'S THE BOSS is an interesting comment considering it is far and away the most successful solo effort by any Stone. Sure Yetnikoff was hoping for THRILLER or BORN IN THE USA, but the whole "Mick crapped out twice" is strictly Keith-Jane Rose promo talk. The same with Keith being forced to go solo. Keith could have stayed a producer/arranger/band leader like he was for Chuck Berry and Aretha Franklin. He could have gone into film scoring with Jim Dickinson as he discussed at the time and followed in Ry Cooder's footsteps. Instead HAIL HAIL and JJF were rehabilitation efforts, brilliantly executed to change the public perception of Keith and make a solo deal viable. It wasn't the seventies. A major label and arena tour for Keith were not a slam dunk. He needed to prove he didn't need Mick before landing his $12 million solo deal with Virgin. Did they earn their money back? Of course not, but it landed them the Stones which was likely the plan. Michael Cohl once stated during an acceptance speech for a Canadian music award that his first conversation about a Stones tour occurred in 1987. Unless his memory was faulty, he was in the running against Bill Graham for awhile. Having bailed Keith out in Toronto in 1977 certainly helped. The Stones have long memories and much of the WWIII press spin is just that. I'm not suggesting it's all a put-on, but Mick and Keith making solo albums was something that was decided early in the eighties. There's an interview with Yetnikoff in the early 1990s where he stated that "of course" he was interested in Keith's solo contract, but when the deal was put together [in 1983] Mick and Keith decided they weren't comfortable being on the same label. Don't believe everything you read and hear from Keith. He does a great job of playing a role. As Yetnikoff related in his book, during negotiations with the Stones he watched Keith seemingly pass out and Mick appear pissed only to have Keith suddenly revive and support Mick in tough negotiations with CBS lawyers. These guys are pros. Mick isn't the enemy or a failure if you prefer Keith solo. In the end, if you enjoy their studio output from UNDERCOVER onwards, you're already a Mick solo and Keith solo fan because they established their creative differences and their commonalities firmly by that point.

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Naturalust

Never underestimate the ability of a fashion conscious wife and daughters to make you feel like you need more money. The list of people sucking on the teats of Keith Richards is probably pretty long...just sayin.

Unless you mean Angela, Teddy and Alexandra were toddlers when Keith decided to go solo.

Yep Rocky ... that's show-biz



ROCKMAN

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Rocky Dijon
We all have opinions on solo albums (for me, WANDERING SPIRIT is the best of all but I remain a fan of both of Keith's albums). To say Mick failed with SHE'S THE BOSS is an interesting comment considering it is far and away the most successful solo effort by any Stone. Sure Yetnikoff was hoping for THRILLER or BORN IN THE USA, but the whole "Mick crapped out twice" is strictly Keith-Jane Rose promo talk. The same with Keith being forced to go solo. Keith could have stayed a producer/arranger/band leader like he was for Chuck Berry and Aretha Franklin. He could have gone into film scoring with Jim Dickinson as he discussed at the time and followed in Ry Cooder's footsteps. Instead HAIL HAIL and JJF were rehabilitation efforts, brilliantly executed to change the public perception of Keith and make a solo deal viable. It wasn't the seventies. A major label and arena tour for Keith were not a slam dunk. He needed to prove he didn't need Mick before landing his $12 million solo deal with Virgin. Did they earn their money back? Of course not, but it landed them the Stones which was likely the plan. Michael Cohl once stated during an acceptance speech for a Canadian music award that his first conversation about a Stones tour occurred in 1987. Unless his memory was faulty, he was in the running against Bill Graham for awhile. Having bailed Keith out in Toronto in 1977 certainly helped. The Stones have long memories and much of the WWIII press spin is just that. I'm not suggesting it's all a put-on, but Mick and Keith making solo albums was something that was decided early in the eighties. There's an interview with Yetnikoff in the early 1990s where he stated that "of course" he was interested in Keith's solo contract, but when the deal was put together [in 1983] Mick and Keith decided they weren't comfortable being on the same label. Don't believe everything you read and hear from Keith. He does a great job of playing a role. As Yetnikoff related in his book, during negotiations with the Stones he watched Keith seemingly pass out and Mick appear pissed only to have Keith suddenly revive and support Mick in tough negotiations with CBS lawyers. These guys are pros. Mick isn't the enemy or a failure if you prefer Keith solo. In the end, if you enjoy their studio output from UNDERCOVER onwards, you're already a Mick solo and Keith solo fan because they established their creative differences and their commonalities firmly by that point.

I disagree with all of this. its just a slant on everything, a distortion of truth and facts. Sounds impressive but lacking in any facts. sorry mate.

Okay, thanks. I tried. Sorry I failed to provide facts and only offered an opinion.

Remember people that write books on the stones have to have an angle, they have to sensationalize everything.
I would rather take Mick and keiths word on things as opposed to some guy trying to sell a book on them.

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Rocky Dijon

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Naturalust

Never underestimate the ability of a fashion conscious wife and daughters to make you feel like you need more money. The list of people sucking on the teats of Keith Richards is probably pretty long...just sayin.

Unless you mean Angela, Teddy and Alexandra were toddlers when Keith decided to go solo.

Well, Marlon's first words were "room service" I'll bet Theo and Alexandria's first words were "more".

I actually think Keith's solo stuff was started because the Stones weren't doing anything and making music is all the guy knows. You can only sit around the house(s) for so long before you have to get out and do something. I think he's even said as much.

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Naturalust

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Rocky Dijon

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Naturalust

Never underestimate the ability of a fashion conscious wife and daughters to make you feel like you need more money. The list of people sucking on the teats of Keith Richards is probably pretty long...just sayin.

Unless you mean Angela, Teddy and Alexandra were toddlers when Keith decided to go solo.

Well, Marlon's first words were "room service" I'll bet Theo and Alexandria's first words were "more".

I actually think Keith's solo stuff was started because the Stones weren't doing anything and making music is all the guy knows. You can only sit around the house(s) for so long before you have to get out and do something. I think he's even said as much.

Thats it right there. You nailed it. What else was Keith supposed to do.

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lem motlow
but why did mick have to beg keith to put the stones back together because his solo career failed?
hadn't charlie,ronnie,bill and mick already decided to work again? what was keiths option,to quit the band?

Speculation points to, as Rocky pointed out, even though SHE'S THE BOSS being the most successful of Stones solo albums, that it wasn't good enough.

If Mick had sold 14 million copies and had 3 #1 singles as a solo artist and was now competing with U2 and not those pop stars Whacko, Madonna and Prince, don't you think it would've turned out different?

What's wrong with that line of thought of Mick 'crawling back' to Keith and the Stones? Nothing. DIRTY WORK comes out and, as Mick was clearly in the right of saying, the Stones were not going to do shit all with that album except make some videos. So on to the next thing, Jagger being a 'look forward, not backward' kind of artist... and he names his next solo album (albeit a better sounding album with better songs but still a lump of shit album) after a song that... looks into the past. Brilliant, Mick. He must've really wanted to not sell any copies with the shitty artwork and first choice for a single.

How on Earth could he have
A. bothered to write such an awful song
B. recorded such an awful song
C. made that awful song the goddamn single to kick off the album!!!???

That sealed it in my eyes: his reason for doing solo albums had fallen flat. Mick never did a great solo song or songs but he did manage some really bad ones and a few good ones. Meanwhile Keith finally gets going and makes music and makes an incredible album.

And tours it.

Mick calls Keith in the middle of his solo work and wants to get the Stones back together? Surely he knew Keith's schedule. Of course Keith views that as Mick crawling back to the Stones: he didn't get what he wanted so he needed Keith to do the Stones.

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lem motlow
if jagger had crawled back to the stones after his dismal record sales why did he and keith go back to making records on their own right after steel wheels? seems kinda strange to start the band up and then go back to what you were already doing if you felt so defeated at that point.

If you just had the biggest tour in the history of rock and had just made a ton of money and knew the band was secure again wouldn't you be comfortable doing whatever you felt like doing knowing nothing was going to fall apart because of it? Amazingly Mick made a great album. Somehow he focused, stopped screwing around and made something brilliant. Keith made music with another solo album and toured with a fantastic band.

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lem motlow
could someone source jagger saying he wanted to be a big pop star on his own like prince or madonna? i'm not saying you guys are wrong i just wonder where that came from as opposed to it just being a side project he was working on. those songs on shes the boss seem a little weak for him to think he could set the world on fire with them.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. No. Because Jagger never said that with words, it was an obvious observation from Keith (and probably a lot of people), given who was doing what then on the charts (Madonna, Prince and Whacko) and the kind of incredibly weak music and silly music videos Mick was making, especially with SHE'S THE BOSS.

A side project... the dismal SuperHeavy would fit under that term, along with Dancing In The Street and State Of Shock.