Hello: New member here and happy to have discovered this site; I'm a big Stones fan from way back. Need help:

My Father just died and we opened his safety deposit box. Inside was a signed photo from 1964 with correspondence from the fan club at the time. I'm including some of the correspondence below along with the photo.

I had a very creditable authentication company look at it. After charging me way too many $$$$, they spent a good deal of time taking scans, x-rays, etc and they forward this information to their Rock & Roll experts.

The problem is that the agent said that there's a chance the signatures are not from the Stones, but possibly their secretaries at the time.

I'm still awaiting official verification, but wouldn't think that the boys would have someone else do their signings at such an early point in their careers.

Any insight anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!.....THANKS.
(sorry the photo is sideways!)

Hey Jozo. I'm sorry I can't help you with the authentication, but the photo along with the correspondence is very very cool. I sure hope you get the information you require. Be sure to report back to us when you hear from the experts.

That letter alone is classic!

He is the best

[rogerepperson.com]

Jozo,

Whatever the outcome, the stuff you have got there is really nice. There's very little early Fan Club stuff in circulation.

As for the autographs, if you're thinking of selling them, then Sotheby's or Christies will look at them and value them. Last time I checked they did that for free, but of course that may have changed.

Bill Wyman is always interested in early stuff - even if it's copies. He has a web site billwyman.com and (small print at bottom of page) there's a contact email address - hidden by "Contact Ripple Productions Ltd."

He absolutely does see stuff emailed to him, but at the moment he's on holiday out of the country so there may be a delay in reply.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Typically back then, fan clubs would either use auto-pen or have the people working the club sign the photos. There are many places you can take it to try and get a COA. With the letters though, it's a very cool collectable.

Interesting they made Bill Wyman younger by changing his birthdate.

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roller99
Typically back then, fan clubs would either use auto-pen

...in 1964?

Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

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swimtothemoon
Interesting they made Bill Wyman younger by changing his birthdate.

He already wrote this in his book Stone Alone, didn't he? Oldham knew how to handle the PR.

Jeff Gold might help you too...

[recordmecca.com]

Jozo, I also received a signed picture from the fan club (nominally run by Annabelle) in 1964, but like you, I had no idea how genuine the signatures were. At the time I assumed they probably were, but later I also read the stories about them signing each others' names, secretaries forging signatures, etc. Like the very young idiot I was, I cut the picture up so that I could paste them more easily into my autograph book, and then the book disappeared in a house move, so the bottom line is that I'm no use to you here at all, but thanks for the chance to reminisce! (I had a weekly subscription to Fabulous too. Also Rave. )

Hon Memebers

Jimmy Saville.

Who have thought eh.

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

Yes I've read that from Bill & maybe even Keith too.
It makes sense, they get a stack of 100-200 photos to sign from Andrew, and they each take a handfull and just sign all the names instead of passing the stacks around... "Do you sign this stack yet Brian?" "Yeah, give me that next stack Keith".

But the different color pens look good, as well as the signatures look to be from different, hands. But they don't resemble the many Keith, Mick, and Charlie sigs I've seen.

Maybe they were all signed by Brian! That would be priceless.

To me Keith's and what I can see of Brian's look right enough;
Mick's looks like a young female's handwriting. But I'm not an expert.

It's a great photo and really cool correspondence anyway! Thanks for posting it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-15 10:42 by with sssoul.

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Freejack

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

Yes I've read that from Bill & maybe even Keith too.
It makes sense, they get a stack of 100-200 photos to sign from Andrew, and they each take a handfull and just sign all the names instead of passing the stacks around... "Do you sign this stack yet Brian?" "Yeah, give me that next stack Keith".

But the different color pens look good, as well as the signatures look to be from different, hands. But they don't resemble the many Keith, Mick, and Charlie sigs I've seen.

Maybe they were all signed by Brian! That would be priceless.

There's a story out there somewhere of George Harrison being asked to sign something and producing imitation signatures for all four Beatles because that's what they always used to do.

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swimtothemoon
Interesting they made Bill Wyman younger by changing his birthdate.

They also got Mick and Keith's year of birth wrong.
it's 1943, not '44

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

I can positively confirm that.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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Green Lady

There's a story out there somewhere of George Harrison being asked to sign something and producing imitation signatures for all four Beatles because that's what they always used to do.

That's definitely true. But it didn't take long for the process to be moved into the hands of Neil Aspinall (Nell).

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

I can positively confirm that.

I think that refers to the signing of the Promotional Album 1969.

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TooTough

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CaptainCorella

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

I can positively confirm that.

I think that refers to the signing of the Promotional Album 1969.

Sorry. I don't know what you mean.

Explicitly then, one band member told me face to face, that this is what they did at times.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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open-g

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swimtothemoon
Interesting they made Bill Wyman younger by changing his birthdate.

They also got Mick and Keith's year of birth wrong.
it's 1943, not '44

Brian's too. He was born in 1942.
.

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CaptainCorella

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TooTough

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CaptainCorella

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

I can positively confirm that.

I think that refers to the signing of the Promotional Album 1969.

Sorry. I don't know what you mean.

Explicitly then, one band member told me face to face, that this is what they did at times.

I'm not sure how such a thing would effect the value which seems to be what the original poster is trying to determine, but I think it would be cool if someone could determine that all the signatures were done by a single band member.

If the autographs were sent by the fan club and not acquired personally by the owner, it's going to be hard to prove that the signatures are genuine - but at the least it is a real 1964-vintage "official signed picture" with supporting documentation, and that has to count for something.

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tumblingdice
Didn't Bill say once that they sometimes signed for each other back then? I may be wrong but think I read that somewhere.

You're right, I remember reading/watching an interview in which Bill said that, and IIRC, he jokingly apologized to the fans who spent $x,xxx.xx for one real autograph.

I really appreciate all the prompt input! This is a great site.

I collect R&R memorabilia and have a veritable museum in my basement. Have some great items, including many great photographs from shows. A good friend of mine is tight with Richard Thompson & Fairport Convention, and he sends me photos of him with many British rock stars that attend their annual reunion.

I had NO idea this Stones item was in my Dad's safety deposit box. My intent is to frame all the items (there are more I didn't include) with a certificate of authenticity. JSA Authentication is considered the best around here in the States and they were in town (Cincinnati) for the baseball All-Star Game the past few days.

As I indicated, I will have to wait for their professional appraisal of the authenticity, but was warned it might be secretarial signatures. Specifically, the guy pointed out that the "M" in Mick, was the same as another "M" on the mailing address cover of the manila envelope it was mailed in.

After reading some of your ideas, I think 2 or three of the signatures may be authentic.

I may try a few resources you all provided, especially the Bill Wyman website.

Aquamarine, that's a great story; sorry you don't have your copy!

Anyway, authentic or not, I need more Stones in the museum and all this will make a nice frameable piece.

Just a few questions about this forum, are most of you from the UK, or any Yanks like me on board?? Also, do you ever discuss R&R topics, different groups, etc. or is it strictly Stones? A couple of weeks ago, they were in Indianapolis, about 90 miles away, but I was out of town & missed the show. Talked to someone today that attended and said it was awesome.

Cheers!

sigs not good looks like secretarial copys .It was part of there job to keep fans happy in those days .with the thousands of fans to please, check with Roger Epperson thou for little cost .goodluck i have some from 1965

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Jozo
Just a few questions about this forum, are most of you from the UK, or any Yanks like me on board?? Also, do you ever discuss R&R topics, different groups, etc. or is it strictly Stones?

There are plenty of yankees here! The guy who runs this place (and the whole IORR fan club) is called bv and he's norwegian. There is a fair amount of people from the north of Europe here, but it's an international forum and everybody's welcome. (I'm Swedish myself.)

In my experience this is the place to get deep, well-initiated and fast information on the Stones. There is a lot of people here with tons of experience and contacts from the rock 'n' roll world, so to speak. (The only thing I get tired of occasionally is all the speculation around some subjects, and the repetitiveness of some discussions, which probably means I'm here too much )

Other topics than the Stones are discussed here every know and then, most often about related artists like the Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, etc. As long as topics don't stray off too far or become too many, they're tolerated as far as I've seen.

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Jozo
Anyway, authentic or not, I need more Stones in the museum and all this will make a nice frameable piece.

As Green Lady pointed out, even if the photo wasn't actually signed by all the band members, it's still "authentic".

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LieB

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Jozo
Just a few questions about this forum, are most of you from the UK, or any Yanks like me on board?? Also, do you ever discuss R&R topics, different groups, etc. or is it strictly Stones?

There are plenty of yankees here! The guy who runs this place (and the whole IORR fan club) is called bv and he's norwegian. There is a fair amount of people from the north of Europe here, but it's an international forum and everybody's welcome. (I'm Swedish myself.)

In my experience this is the place to get deep, well-initiated and fast information on the Stones. There is a lot of people here with tons of experience and contacts from the rock 'n' roll world, so to speak. (The only thing I get tired of occasionally is all the speculation around some subjects, and the repetitiveness of some discussions, which probably means I'm here too much )

Other topics than the Stones are discussed here every know and then, most often about related artists like the Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, etc. As long as topics don't stray off too far or become too many, they're tolerated as far as I've seen.

I'm encouraged by many of you that are indicating that even if the signatures are not authentic, that these items are collectible and definitely worth framing. In addition to display, I view my R&R "Museum" as an investment to pass along to my kids one day for them to either sell or keep adding to and keeping in the family.

Also glad I can discuss other bands here. In addition to the Stones, I love The Beatles, Zeppelin, Rush (just saw them and it was incredible), Jethro Tull, ELP & The Beach Boys.

The Stones are indirectly responsible for my career choice: Sticky Fingers came out when I was in High School. I asked someone what that instrument was and he said "Alto Sax, you should play it in the school band". I did and eventually became trained in classical music at one of the top schools in the US. Just retired from 35 years of teaching music (yes, I passed along plenty of Stones songs & stories to the kids!)

Anyway, thanks to all for input. I will bump this thread when I get official verification from JSA.

Cheers!

Welcome to IORR Jozo! Enjoy the site!
Good luck with your signed photo!