Tell Me :
Talk
Better to say that that is true from 1967 and beyond (about Jagger able to do it on his own). Also I believe Keith wrote whole songs completely with minimal assistance from Jagger or anyone else for that matter.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 17:29 by nightskyman.
Bingo. These things might be believed if people like Wyman or Taylor or Brian ever wrote decent stuff of their own. Obviously Jagger and Richards were the only ones who could write decent songs.
While these guys complain about it, it was probably a pain in the ass for Mick and Keith to have bandmates who couldn't write songs always trying to push their songs to them.
I am always surprised about how Jagger especially is described by people. He is supposed to be this power hungry, controlling, jealous of everyone jerk. If you are heading a band as huge as the Stones you better be controlling or you won't last.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 17:36 by stanlove.
Like? (besides Ruby Tuesday)
Neither of them could it on his own in a great way. And both needed the band to make a song from what mostly were only rough sketches. They all told that themselves. They seldom or never brought complete and finished songs to the table.
My impression is that Mick's songs were much more complete that Keith's and while Keith may have enhanced the groove and feel of many of them that Mick tended to have arrangements and lyrics fairly complete for many of the ones he wrote.
Songs like 100 years ago and Dead Flower for example were apparently well written by Mick before they were given to the Stones to record.
I think the whole process has evolved from true collaboration in the beginning, to a mixture of that in the middle era with Keith a bit more dependent on Mick for lyrical help, to the modern era where Mick seems to write completely independently and Keith to some extent as well. They seem to be opening up about who's songs they were as time goes on and I'm often surprised at what comes out.
The timeisonourside site site has lots of great quotes about the individual songs which often give great information on the subject.
...you know Exile has some...
Agreed
Just not the lyrics
He wouldn't have any sharks crying...
No
. Although I have to admit that the song I already heard of his new album ("How, When, Why" or something like that) was a lot better than I expected. I was especially surprised by his voice. So, maybe there's still hope for him.
I think people make a mistake by using Mick and Keith's solo material to judge them as writers for the Stones. Mick has made it clear many times he doesn't try to sound like the Stones on his solo albums. while Keith does try to sound like the Stones. Its not a good comparison.
And while I think Keith's first solo album is the best of all solo albums by Stone members I can't believe you think his second one is better then Wandering Spirit. To me Keith's second solo album was really weak in the song writing department.
To me Jagger might have even wrote more good songs then Richards away from the Stones, but Rickard's played his songs more Stonsish so they sound better to Stones fans.
You've said this before, but never actually said what this alleged "behavior" was. Did he steal Keith's shepherd's pie? Did he double-dip his potato chips? It's rather frustrating when people allude to inside knowledge and then don't reveal what the actual information is. Regardless, to limit Bill to two songs if he wanted to do more was petty and stupid, as it was to not have Bill and Mick T. onstage with the band at the same time.
thats called strumming
Undeniably true.
In 1 + 1 you see the Stones as a group rehearsing and developing a song for recording and release, but the song itself has already been written. There's nothing there in the film indicating Keith co-wrote it or even a small portion of it. Keith has never stated that anything to do with it except for the recording of 'sympathy.'
You're perhaps right about 'Gimme Shelter' but on 'Satisfaction' Jagger provided lyrics to the verses (beyond the chorus).
the melody to sympathy was clearly developed in the studio. the "ba-dum ba-dum ba-dum" he does at the beginning is not the melody. you're right that the words were all written. there is more to writing a song than the words.
she's the boss was an attempt at the stones album. jagger was frustrated with keith and told he didn't need the rest of the stones so he tried to replicate the stones without them. it was a dismal failure and helped launch WWIII.
it's important not to re-write history.
And LIB in 1969.
I think you are the one rewriting history but thanks. She's the Boss was mostly a pop album and was not an attempt to put out a Stones like album.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: June 23, 2015 17:27
Quote
BowieStoneQuote
Turner68
Keith is the main songwriter in the band.
Can't believe people still think that.
It's becoming more and more obvious to me that Keith had brilliant ideas (riffs, hooks), but he needed Mick to actually make a song out of them. Which is the hardest part... I can knock out some decent riffs, but don't ask me to write a song with them.
Mick can do it on his own.
That's the way I see it anyway.
Better to say that that is true from 1967 and beyond (about Jagger able to do it on his own). Also I believe Keith wrote whole songs completely with minimal assistance from Jagger or anyone else for that matter.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 17:29 by nightskyman.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: June 23, 2015 17:31
Quote
strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.
Bingo. These things might be believed if people like Wyman or Taylor or Brian ever wrote decent stuff of their own. Obviously Jagger and Richards were the only ones who could write decent songs.
While these guys complain about it, it was probably a pain in the ass for Mick and Keith to have bandmates who couldn't write songs always trying to push their songs to them.
I am always surprised about how Jagger especially is described by people. He is supposed to be this power hungry, controlling, jealous of everyone jerk. If you are heading a band as huge as the Stones you better be controlling or you won't last.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 17:36 by stanlove.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
BowieStone
()
Date: June 23, 2015 17:31
Quote
nightskyman
Also I believe Keith wrote whole songs completely with minimal assistance from Jagger or anyone else for that matter.
Like? (besides Ruby Tuesday)
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 23, 2015 18:06
Quote
BowieStoneQuote
Turner68
Keith is the main songwriter in the band.
Can't believe people still think that.
It's becoming more and more obvious to me that Keith had brilliant ideas (riffs, hooks), but he needed Mick to actually make a song out of them. Which is the hardest part... I can knock out some decent riffs, but don't ask me to write a song with them.
Mick can do it on his own.
That's the way I see it anyway.
Neither of them could it on his own in a great way. And both needed the band to make a song from what mostly were only rough sketches. They all told that themselves. They seldom or never brought complete and finished songs to the table.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: June 23, 2015 18:42
Quote
kleermakerQuote
BowieStoneQuote
Turner68
Keith is the main songwriter in the band.
Can't believe people still think that.
It's becoming more and more obvious to me that Keith had brilliant ideas (riffs, hooks), but he needed Mick to actually make a song out of them. Which is the hardest part... I can knock out some decent riffs, but don't ask me to write a song with them.
Mick can do it on his own.
That's the way I see it anyway.
Neither of them could it on his own in a great way. And both needed the band to make a song from what mostly were only rough sketches. They all told that themselves. They seldom or never brought complete and finished songs to the table.
My impression is that Mick's songs were much more complete that Keith's and while Keith may have enhanced the groove and feel of many of them that Mick tended to have arrangements and lyrics fairly complete for many of the ones he wrote.
Songs like 100 years ago and Dead Flower for example were apparently well written by Mick before they were given to the Stones to record.
I think the whole process has evolved from true collaboration in the beginning, to a mixture of that in the middle era with Keith a bit more dependent on Mick for lyrical help, to the modern era where Mick seems to write completely independently and Keith to some extent as well. They seem to be opening up about who's songs they were as time goes on and I'm often surprised at what comes out.
The timeisonourside site site has lots of great quotes about the individual songs which often give great information on the subject.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: June 23, 2015 18:46
>> Mick's songs were much more complete that Keith's and while Keith may have enhanced the groove and feel of many of them that Mick tended to have arrangements and lyrics fairly complete for many of the ones he wrote. <<
Brown Sugar comes to mind
most of Sticky Fingers probably..
Brown Sugar comes to mind
most of Sticky Fingers probably..
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: June 23, 2015 18:52
Quote
BowieStoneQuote
nightskyman
Also I believe Keith wrote whole songs completely with minimal assistance from Jagger or anyone else for that matter.
Like? (besides Ruby Tuesday)
...you know Exile has some...
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: June 23, 2015 18:55
Even before Brown Sugar and Sticky Fingers. You Cant Always Get What You Want (1969), Sympathy for the Devil (1968), She's A Rainbow (1967), and Yesterday's Papers (1966).
So clearly, from 1966 on Jagger certainly doing some songs on his own.
So is it fair to say that's probably the time when Keith began to retreat to simply providing riffs and song ideas and his musical contribution and co-producing (rather than coming in with complete songs or doing 50-50 writing collaborations with Mick)?
So clearly, from 1966 on Jagger certainly doing some songs on his own.
So is it fair to say that's probably the time when Keith began to retreat to simply providing riffs and song ideas and his musical contribution and co-producing (rather than coming in with complete songs or doing 50-50 writing collaborations with Mick)?
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: June 23, 2015 19:10
Bill Wyman never made any music solo worth to listen to.
Neither did Mick Taylor.
And I personally don't like Mick Jagger's solo efforts either, not even Wandering Spirit.
Ronnie Wood's solo albums are as you can expect: nothing tremendous but good fun.
Keith Richards, on the other hand, made two good to great solo-albums. They contain some weaker material, mainly due to "eighties production" and his voice having its weaknesses, but songs like "Make No Mistake", "Take It So Hard", "Don't Move Me", "Hate It When You Leave", "Wicked As It Seems" not only show he can write great stuff on his own, but also create "his own sound", quite distinct from the Stones. A song like "It Means A lot" and in a different way "Rockawhile" shows his ability to groove. And even relative "filler" like "Will But You Won't" or "Running Too Deep" or "Words of Wonder" grow on you.
So, for me, it's quite clear from whom the most important contribution to the music comes.
Thank God they didn't use Bill Wyman's songs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 19:12 by matxil.
Neither did Mick Taylor.
And I personally don't like Mick Jagger's solo efforts either, not even Wandering Spirit.
Ronnie Wood's solo albums are as you can expect: nothing tremendous but good fun.
Keith Richards, on the other hand, made two good to great solo-albums. They contain some weaker material, mainly due to "eighties production" and his voice having its weaknesses, but songs like "Make No Mistake", "Take It So Hard", "Don't Move Me", "Hate It When You Leave", "Wicked As It Seems" not only show he can write great stuff on his own, but also create "his own sound", quite distinct from the Stones. A song like "It Means A lot" and in a different way "Rockawhile" shows his ability to groove. And even relative "filler" like "Will But You Won't" or "Running Too Deep" or "Words of Wonder" grow on you.
So, for me, it's quite clear from whom the most important contribution to the music comes.
Thank God they didn't use Bill Wyman's songs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 19:12 by matxil.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: June 23, 2015 19:17
He can write great stuff on his own
He did write 95% of the Stones music on his own..............
__________________________
He did write 95% of the Stones music on his own..............
__________________________
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: June 23, 2015 19:18
^^
matxil,
you won't be rushing out to buy Bill's new album?
matxil,
you won't be rushing out to buy Bill's new album?
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: June 23, 2015 19:19
Quote
NICOS
He can write great stuff on his own
He did write 95% of the Stones music on his own..............
Agreed
Just not the lyrics
He wouldn't have any sharks crying...
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: June 23, 2015 19:21
Quote
duke richardson
^^
matxil,
you won't be rushing out to buy Bill's new album?
No
. Although I have to admit that the song I already heard of his new album ("How, When, Why" or something like that) was a lot better than I expected. I was especially surprised by his voice. So, maybe there's still hope for him.Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: June 23, 2015 19:54
Quote
matxil
Bill Wyman never made any music solo worth to listen to.
Neither did Mick Taylor.
And I personally don't like Mick Jagger's solo efforts either, not even Wandering Spirit.
Ronnie Wood's solo albums are as you can expect: nothing tremendous but good fun.
Keith Richards, on the other hand, made two good to great solo-albums. They contain some weaker material, mainly due to "eighties production" and his voice having its weaknesses, but songs like "Make No Mistake", "Take It So Hard", "Don't Move Me", "Hate It When You Leave", "Wicked As It Seems" not only show he can write great stuff on his own, but also create "his own sound", quite distinct from the Stones. A song like "It Means A lot" and in a different way "Rockawhile" shows his ability to groove. And even relative "filler" like "Will But You Won't" or "Running Too Deep" or "Words of Wonder" grow on you.
So, for me, it's quite clear from whom the most important contribution to the music comes.
Thank God they didn't use Bill Wyman's songs.
I think people make a mistake by using Mick and Keith's solo material to judge them as writers for the Stones. Mick has made it clear many times he doesn't try to sound like the Stones on his solo albums. while Keith does try to sound like the Stones. Its not a good comparison.
And while I think Keith's first solo album is the best of all solo albums by Stone members I can't believe you think his second one is better then Wandering Spirit. To me Keith's second solo album was really weak in the song writing department.
To me Jagger might have even wrote more good songs then Richards away from the Stones, but Rickard's played his songs more Stonsish so they sound better to Stones fans.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: June 23, 2015 20:05
I don't think Keith tries to sound like the Stones at all on his solo-works. Although maybe on the later Stones albums ("Thief in the Night" etc...) he sounds more like his solo stuff.
I find "It Means A Lot", "Wicked as it Seems" "Take It So Hard", quite different from the Stones, in rhythm, in structure and in sound.
There was another thread were Wandering Spirit was compared with Keith's solo albums. For the past few weeks I have been relistening to "Main offender", and the album has grown marvelously on me. Apart from "Body Talk" and "Yap Yap" which are weak, I really like the album very much. And I think "Hate It When You Leave" has been really overlooked, it's such an absolute beautiful song. I always loved "Wicked As It Seems". But I have even caught myself singing "Will You Wont" or "Running Too Deep" without being aware. Somehow, even those songs have some hook.
On the other hand, I really tried a couple of times listening to Wandering Spirit. But I can't stand the thing. The fake voice, the lame production, the overall sound, the Bon Jovi-esque "loud guitar". It's trying very hard to be something that it's not and it ends up being slick, fake. I think there is one country-balled on it ("Your Nightgown" or something) in which he puts on a fake American accent. So silly.
But anyway, back to the Stones: I liked "Doom and Gloom", and I understood that's written by Jagger, so there you go. And from the last album I liked "Laugh I Nearly Died" which I think is by Jagger too. Whereas both Keith songs on ABB were terrible.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 20:07 by matxil.
I find "It Means A Lot", "Wicked as it Seems" "Take It So Hard", quite different from the Stones, in rhythm, in structure and in sound.
There was another thread were Wandering Spirit was compared with Keith's solo albums. For the past few weeks I have been relistening to "Main offender", and the album has grown marvelously on me. Apart from "Body Talk" and "Yap Yap" which are weak, I really like the album very much. And I think "Hate It When You Leave" has been really overlooked, it's such an absolute beautiful song. I always loved "Wicked As It Seems". But I have even caught myself singing "Will You Wont" or "Running Too Deep" without being aware. Somehow, even those songs have some hook.
On the other hand, I really tried a couple of times listening to Wandering Spirit. But I can't stand the thing. The fake voice, the lame production, the overall sound, the Bon Jovi-esque "loud guitar". It's trying very hard to be something that it's not and it ends up being slick, fake. I think there is one country-balled on it ("Your Nightgown" or something) in which he puts on a fake American accent. So silly.
But anyway, back to the Stones: I liked "Doom and Gloom", and I understood that's written by Jagger, so there you go. And from the last album I liked "Laugh I Nearly Died" which I think is by Jagger too. Whereas both Keith songs on ABB were terrible.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 20:07 by matxil.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: June 23, 2015 20:20
Quote
TeddyB1018
This was not the way I heard it at the time. I heard none of the four Stones, including Charlie, were very pleased with Bill's behavior when they got together, and I was told this happened when they convened in the States for the Brett Morgen film shoot. This was from a very strong source, though I wasn't there myself so can't vouch any further than that. Maybe they conflated things, but this was right when it was happening.
You've said this before, but never actually said what this alleged "behavior" was. Did he steal Keith's shepherd's pie? Did he double-dip his potato chips? It's rather frustrating when people allude to inside knowledge and then don't reveal what the actual information is. Regardless, to limit Bill to two songs if he wanted to do more was petty and stupid, as it was to not have Bill and Mick T. onstage with the band at the same time.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Seb91
()
Date: June 23, 2015 20:23
I don't think Bill is being out of order re The O2 show - he should at least have been told what songs to go over and have had some form of rehearsal with them, especially as the guests got a soundcheck.
In my opinion it all comes down to money/image - had they done a full set with Taylor and Bill for the 50th, if they hadn't have stuck around everything that came after would have been a letdown and if they had allowed both of them to rejoin it would mean less profit. Plus, they'd have had to rehearse properly from scratch in order to gel together again musically.
As for Darryl, he's a great bassist but I don't buy the idea that he's a million times better than Bill and that the guys love him so much; if they did why didn't they make him an official member?
It's a shame, went to see Fleetwood Mac (with Christine McVie back in the fold) for the second time last night and I'm so glad they have a different attitude to past members than the Stones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 21:24 by Seb91.
In my opinion it all comes down to money/image - had they done a full set with Taylor and Bill for the 50th, if they hadn't have stuck around everything that came after would have been a letdown and if they had allowed both of them to rejoin it would mean less profit. Plus, they'd have had to rehearse properly from scratch in order to gel together again musically.
As for Darryl, he's a great bassist but I don't buy the idea that he's a million times better than Bill and that the guys love him so much; if they did why didn't they make him an official member?
It's a shame, went to see Fleetwood Mac (with Christine McVie back in the fold) for the second time last night and I'm so glad they have a different attitude to past members than the Stones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 21:24 by Seb91.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
keefriffhards
()
Date: June 23, 2015 20:27
i like listening to keiths 2 albums as much as any stones album since tattoo you.
some people talk on here as though Mick wrote most of the good songs. thats a stretch from reality. keith is the musician. i believe im right in saying Ronnie taught Mick how to play guitar some time in the late 70's. Mick is the main lyric writer but surely keith is part, if not mostly the creative force behind some of the most prolific rock ever written.
also to assume keith cant write any more is another mistake . lots of you on iorr went keith bashing from 2007 until recently, saying he could no longer play . well he came back. i think he will be back as a writer too.
its a given that the best material is with both mick and keith together.
some people talk on here as though Mick wrote most of the good songs. thats a stretch from reality. keith is the musician. i believe im right in saying Ronnie taught Mick how to play guitar some time in the late 70's. Mick is the main lyric writer but surely keith is part, if not mostly the creative force behind some of the most prolific rock ever written.
also to assume keith cant write any more is another mistake . lots of you on iorr went keith bashing from 2007 until recently, saying he could no longer play . well he came back. i think he will be back as a writer too.
its a given that the best material is with both mick and keith together.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: June 23, 2015 21:05
Ronnie didn't teach Mick to play guitar in the mid 70s. He was already playing. See Sticky Fingers, Sway, Moonlight Mile, and his playing on Performance (Come into My Kitchen, etc...)
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
keefriffhards
()
Date: June 23, 2015 21:08
Quote
whitem8
Ronnie didn't teach Mick to play guitar in the mid 70s. He was already playing. See Sticky Fingers, Sway, Moonlight Mile, and his playing on Performance (Come into My Kitchen, etc...)
thats called strumming
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 23, 2015 21:24
Anyone who has seen 1+1 knows mick didn't write sympathy completely
Keith wrote all of satisfaction and gimme shelter except some of the verses. Just two small examples
Keith wrote all of satisfaction and gimme shelter except some of the verses. Just two small examples
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
MartinB
()
Date: June 23, 2015 21:32
I certainly miss Bill more than Mick T. in the current RS line up.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: June 23, 2015 22:17
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
LeonidPQuote
strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.
Another excellent point ... I 'like' some of Bill's stuff, but still most of it would be filler on a Stones album. Taylor's stuff is worse - yes he's a great guitar player but come on, the songs he's written are far below average.
Co writing is what he talks about. Listen to Micks and Keiths solo material and remember they had help. They had co writers like Lenny Kravitz, Waddy Wachtel etc. Bill talks about the work process in the studio. Let's be fair. They use people.
Redhotcarpet, you made the points!
/quote]
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: June 23, 2015 22:26
Quote
71Tele
Regardless, to limit Bill to two songs if he wanted to do more was petty and stupid, as it was to not have Bill and Mick T. onstage with the band at the same time.
Undeniably true.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 23, 2015 22:31
agreed.Quote
kleermakerQuote
71Tele
Regardless, to limit Bill to two songs if he wanted to do more was petty and stupid, as it was to not have Bill and Mick T. onstage with the band at the same time.
Undeniably true.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: June 23, 2015 22:42
Quote
Turner68
Anyone who has seen 1+1 knows mick didn't write sympathy completely
Keith wrote all of satisfaction and gimme shelter except some of the verses. Just two small examples
In 1 + 1 you see the Stones as a group rehearsing and developing a song for recording and release, but the song itself has already been written. There's nothing there in the film indicating Keith co-wrote it or even a small portion of it. Keith has never stated that anything to do with it except for the recording of 'sympathy.'
You're perhaps right about 'Gimme Shelter' but on 'Satisfaction' Jagger provided lyrics to the verses (beyond the chorus).
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 23, 2015 22:49
Quote
nightskymanQuote
Turner68
Anyone who has seen 1+1 knows mick didn't write sympathy completely
Keith wrote all of satisfaction and gimme shelter except some of the verses. Just two small examples
In 1 + 1 you see the Stones as a group rehearsing and developing a song for recording and release, but the song itself has already been written. There's nothing there in the film indicating Keith co-wrote it or even a small portion of it. Keith has never stated that anything to do with it except for the recording of 'sympathy.'
You're perhaps right about 'Gimme Shelter' but on 'Satisfaction' Jagger provided lyrics to the verses (beyond the chorus).
the melody to sympathy was clearly developed in the studio. the "ba-dum ba-dum ba-dum" he does at the beginning is not the melody. you're right that the words were all written. there is more to writing a song than the words.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: June 23, 2015 22:52
Quote
stanloveQuote
matxil
Bill Wyman never made any music solo worth to listen to.
Neither did Mick Taylor.
And I personally don't like Mick Jagger's solo efforts either, not even Wandering Spirit.
Ronnie Wood's solo albums are as you can expect: nothing tremendous but good fun.
Keith Richards, on the other hand, made two good to great solo-albums. They contain some weaker material, mainly due to "eighties production" and his voice having its weaknesses, but songs like "Make No Mistake", "Take It So Hard", "Don't Move Me", "Hate It When You Leave", "Wicked As It Seems" not only show he can write great stuff on his own, but also create "his own sound", quite distinct from the Stones. A song like "It Means A lot" and in a different way "Rockawhile" shows his ability to groove. And even relative "filler" like "Will But You Won't" or "Running Too Deep" or "Words of Wonder" grow on you.
So, for me, it's quite clear from whom the most important contribution to the music comes.
Thank God they didn't use Bill Wyman's songs.
I think people make a mistake by using Mick and Keith's solo material to judge them as writers for the Stones. Mick has made it clear many times he doesn't try to sound like the Stones on his solo albums. while Keith does try to sound like the Stones. Its not a good comparison.
And while I think Keith's first solo album is the best of all solo albums by Stone members I can't believe you think his second one is better then Wandering Spirit. To me Keith's second solo album was really weak in the song writing department.
To me Jagger might have even wrote more good songs then Richards away from the Stones, but Rickard's played his songs more Stonsish so they sound better to Stones fans.
she's the boss was an attempt at the stones album. jagger was frustrated with keith and told he didn't need the rest of the stones so he tried to replicate the stones without them. it was a dismal failure and helped launch WWIII.
it's important not to re-write history.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 23, 2015 23:20
Quote
whitem8
Ronnie didn't teach Mick to play guitar in the mid 70s. He was already playing. See Sticky Fingers, Sway, Moonlight Mile, and his playing on Performance (Come into My Kitchen, etc...)
And LIB in 1969.
Re: Bill Wyman: The Stones Never Forgave Me For Leaving
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: June 23, 2015 23:49
Quote
Turner68Quote
stanloveQuote
matxil
Bill Wyman never made any music solo worth to listen to.
Neither did Mick Taylor.
And I personally don't like Mick Jagger's solo efforts either, not even Wandering Spirit.
Ronnie Wood's solo albums are as you can expect: nothing tremendous but good fun.
Keith Richards, on the other hand, made two good to great solo-albums. They contain some weaker material, mainly due to "eighties production" and his voice having its weaknesses, but songs like "Make No Mistake", "Take It So Hard", "Don't Move Me", "Hate It When You Leave", "Wicked As It Seems" not only show he can write great stuff on his own, but also create "his own sound", quite distinct from the Stones. A song like "It Means A lot" and in a different way "Rockawhile" shows his ability to groove. And even relative "filler" like "Will But You Won't" or "Running Too Deep" or "Words of Wonder" grow on you.
So, for me, it's quite clear from whom the most important contribution to the music comes.
Thank God they didn't use Bill Wyman's songs.
I think people make a mistake by using Mick and Keith's solo material to judge them as writers for the Stones. Mick has made it clear many times he doesn't try to sound like the Stones on his solo albums. while Keith does try to sound like the Stones. Its not a good comparison.
And while I think Keith's first solo album is the best of all solo albums by Stone members I can't believe you think his second one is better then Wandering Spirit. To me Keith's second solo album was really weak in the song writing department.
To me Jagger might have even wrote more good songs then Richards away from the Stones, but Rickard's played his songs more Stonsish so they sound better to Stones fans.
she's the boss was an attempt at the stones album. jagger was frustrated with keith and told he didn't need the rest of the stones so he tried to replicate the stones without them. it was a dismal failure and helped launch WWIII.
it's important not to re-write history.
I think you are the one rewriting history but thanks. She's the Boss was mostly a pop album and was not an attempt to put out a Stones like album.
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