I'm on the fence about attending Zip Code shows, based primarily on how poor--in my humble opinion--the live sound has been since 1989, and in particular the way the guitars have been buried in the mix. For me, this had led to a homogenization of the shows from night to night, which makes it more difficult for me to want to hit more and more shows since the trainwreck potential is just about gone. (In my opinion this is an important and necessary element.) Having that live, shaky, LOUD shambolic sponteneity creates a tension that I think makes the Stones the Stones. They don't embrace that in a live setting very much anymore, and the guitar mix is central to this. (Just MHO: Your mileage will vary!)

HOWEVER...based on YouTube vids posted of the opening San Diego show, I'm actually quite impressed with how you might actually suspect the Stones are a guitar band again. Perhaps there is a glimmer of hope from the Glimmer Twins in this regard! [And yes, I know, you can't judge a show based on YouTube vids, but the sound mix seems better.]

For years I've thought the Stones have been their own worst enemy when it came to their conscious decision to subordinate the guitars in the live mix. I have been to 20+ shows--indoor and out--since 1989, and have never been happy with the guitar mix. Way too low. Even the club show in 2002 (I hit Aragon) was not what I'd call a mix that was suitable for a guitar band. I've heard church bands that play louder, and have better (and raunchier!) guitar tone. After years of groaning and shaking my head about this lack of guitar volume in a live setting, I slowly just started to accept the inevitable: that the Stones simply were no longer a guitar band, which is the band that I grew up loving. I needed to grow up with the band, and find new ways to enjoy them for what they became and evolved into. But I've always felt that something BIG was missing, and it was as simple to fix as playing with the confidence to let people hear your screwups--just turn up the darn volume of the core instruments.

For an easy example of the contrast and how bands choose to utilize/exploit the same sound system, compare AC/DC's set at SARS with the Stones' (just comparing sound; not performance.) Night and day difference, with AC/DC just dripping with sweet but gut-wrenching, powerhouse guitar tones (channeling Ya Ya's or LA '75), and the Stones...well, did they even plug their instruments in at all?? Same sound system; different choices.

The Stones sound SO much better when the guitars are ear-bleedin' loud. Let us hear the bum notes and guitar fuckups at full blast! That's better than playing it safe and burying them in the mix.

Judgment is still out on this until they play a few more shows, perhaps. Hopefully during the inevitable post-mortem and review of the opening show by the "powers that be", the impulse will be to turn it up even louder, and that they resist any impulse to try to "professionalize" (i.e, overly sanitize...ie., kill) the presentation. And if they go that route, I think they need a sound guy who has the balls to just go rogue and turn all dials up to 11!

Maybe they are improving in this regard? Would like to know what others think.

The guitar sound has definitely improved. They turn them far up when there's a solo, so Dave Natale HAS balls. And I don't just say that because he presented me with the FOH setlist in Berlin =)
It's been pretty much consent that the guitar sound last summer was strong. Someone said "Keef riffs slicing your head off" and he was spot-on.

Sorry I meant to say chords. Keef chords slicing your head off.
See this performance from the show it referred to:




So yeah, you should definitely go!

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Nikkei
The guitar sound has definitely improved. They turn them far up when there's a solo, so Dave Natale HAS balls. And I don't just say that because he presented me with the FOH setlist in Berlin =)
It's been pretty much consent that the guitar sound last summer was strong. Someone said "Keef riffs slicing your head off" and he was spot-on.

I used to look forward to it all falling apart and then listening to the mastery of someone (usually Charlie) picking it up and putting it back together again. You knew it was live and raw.

I missed '89, but I agree about subsequent tours up until A Bigger Bang. The VL tour in particular seemed to have that sterile vibe (1994 at least). I saw a surprisingly good show in 2005 with upfront guitars. Based on the reports from the ongoing mini-tours, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing them next week after almost 8 years.

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Nikkei
The guitar sound has definitely improved. They turn them far up when there's a solo, so Dave Natale HAS balls.

Awesome. Ha, that's a good start, but to me, they should keep the guitars loud enough that they don't have to turn them up come solo time. That sometimes emphasizes how they are not prominent at other times, and I like that loud, crunchy rhythm slicing my head off too!

There are tremendous differences between the tours from 89 until today. In 1990, with the then new Twins, the guitars tended to be buried in the mix - more clean-sounding than ever.

The BB-tour probably had the loudest and dirtiest guitar sound.

Today, most of the effects are peeled off. The guitar mixing is more organic and live than ever before. But some of the grit is gone. It's a matter of taste, but I like the sound of the current tour. There are also fewer musicians on stage now.

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rocker1
Awesome. Ha, that's a good start, but to me, they should keep the guitars loud enough that they don't have to turn them up come solo time. That sometimes emphasizes how they are not prominent at other times, and I like that loud, crunchy rhythm slicing my head off too!

Hm you got a point there. But I felt they were prominent throughout. I compare to 2006 which was generally muddy while being very loud in my experience.

rocker1, I totally understand you post and agree with it. After hearing them in San Diego all I can say is YOU"RE IN LUCK! Get yourself a ticket without a further thought on the subject.

Not only were the guitars up front the entire show, they sounded better than ever. It was one on the things I noticed right away, they were friggin' loud man! The tones were pure hard driven tube amps, not gritty but loud, warm and in your face. Even Ronnie's often thin in the past tones were long gone. His solo tone was sweet and his rhythm tones very good. It wasn't AC/DC Marshalls on 11 overdriven but it was certainly that about to blow a speaker Fender overdrive sound that satisfies.

That shaky about to go off the tracks but staying there thing you keenly speak of was present and awesome. Like a train lifting wheels around every corner but getting to the station ahead of time. There was a bit of level riding from Dave Natale but mostly he just turned the guitars even louder, they never were cut except perhaps at the beginning of BS where it sounded like Keith might be jumping off the tracks unexpectedly.

I was smiling the whole time reading you post because these are the exact things that made the show so good for me. Have a blast, you are in for a treat.

peace

You won't certainly not be disappointed about the guitar sound!
The guitars were very loud on the last tour and they sounded amazing.

Great thread rocker1...wondering if you saw any of the 2013 shows in NA. I found the guitars were finally LOUD, UP FRONT and IN YOUR FACE after seeing every tour since Steel Wheels! Noticeable improvement. My good friend and jam partner nailed it when I asked him what the highlight was (before I had seen my two shows on the jaunt in Boston)...he said..."Keiths guitar is MONSTROUS". Couldnt have agreed more when I saw the shows...the guitar tones were raw. loud and high in the mix...it truly sounded lijek a guitar drive n band again. Onlystones...love your comments man fack you are getting me excited just reading your posts.Last show of the tour cant come soon enough for me its the closest and only one I will be attending but it is the best chance I have of getting as close as possible with the VIP passes in tow...YAH BABY!

that was a great clip! Wow!

Having heard some of the LA show and all of the San Diego I can say that without a doubt the guitars are up front and live this tour.

It is truly wonderful and very much full of swagger.

Not sure if this is a phone video or not but the guitar are right there and Mick is in command !!! See you in Pitts and Buff !!!







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-28 02:21 by custom55.

I saw them in Columbus in 2002 Nationwide Arena (best setlist of the whole tour(look it up)), and sound excellent. Felt like an out of body experience at some points. Anyway, I was only 15, so you can expect that. Durham (Duke) 2005 was the worst sound ive heard (maybe it was just a bad show) but it felt like they just phoned it in. Nothing special. I have never been completely satisfied with the sound other than Churchill 2006 and Columbus 2002. Boston 2 2013 was pretty good but lacking in volume. The mix was perfect, they just needed to turn in up a few notches



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-28 02:30 by piper.

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piper
I saw them in Columbus in 2002 Nationwide Arena (best setlist of the whole tour(look it up)), and sound excellent. Felt like an out of body experience at some points. Anyway, I was only 15, so you can expect that. Durham (Duke) 2006 was the worst sound ive heard (maybe it was just a bad show) but it felt like they just phoned it in. Nothing special. I have never been completely satisfied with the sound other than Churchill 2006 and Columbus 2002. Boston 2 2013 was pretty good but lacking in volume. The mix was perfect, they just needed to turn in up a few notches

This tour (so far) has been VERY loud and I like it that way

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eyesoftheworld

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piper
I saw them in Columbus in 2002 Nationwide Arena (best setlist of the whole tour(look it up)), and sound excellent. Felt like an out of body experience at some points. Anyway, I was only 15, so you can expect that. Durham (Duke) 2006 was the worst sound ive heard (maybe it was just a bad show) but it felt like they just phoned it in. Nothing special. I have never been completely satisfied with the sound other than Churchill 2006 and Columbus 2002. Boston 2 2013 was pretty good but lacking in volume. The mix was perfect, they just needed to turn in up a few notches

This tour (so far) has been VERY loud and I like it that way

Good to know !!! I am so excited I can hardly wait. Churchill 2006 was my last stadium show. You can put me in the group of people who enjoys the Stones the most in a stadium (spectacle) show.

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piper

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eyesoftheworld

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piper
I saw them in Columbus in 2002 Nationwide Arena (best setlist of the whole tour(look it up)), and sound excellent. Felt like an out of body experience at some points. Anyway, I was only 15, so you can expect that. Durham (Duke) 2006 was the worst sound ive heard (maybe it was just a bad show) but it felt like they just phoned it in. Nothing special. I have never been completely satisfied with the sound other than Churchill 2006 and Columbus 2002. Boston 2 2013 was pretty good but lacking in volume. The mix was perfect, they just needed to turn in up a few notches

This tour (so far) has been VERY loud and I like it that way

Good to know !!! I am so excited I can hardly wait. Churchill 2006 was my last stadium show. You can put me in the group of people who enjoys the Stones the most in a stadium (spectacle) show.

Me too, friend.
Not sure if your username is a Phish reference, but either way I like it.

You'll have a great time, in my opinion they are really "on", you can never go wrong seeing the Stones. Always money well spent.

cheers!!!!

When I saw them in Berlin last year, Keith was insanely loud.

To be honest, I think this video shows the sound best:

(VOLUME WARNING><)

I've seen every US tour since 1981 and the guitar volume at Petco Park was by far the loudest I've witnessed.

I was at the Petco show and the guitars were insanely loud, which is the way I like it. When Keith hits that chord after the first "Pleased to meet you" in SFTD, the volume of his guitar is jolting. As for Ronnie, he was nice and loud in the mix as well, and his tone was great. No more of that thin, flimsy Stratocaster sound he had from '94-'07.

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Sam4741
I was at the Petco show and the guitars were insanely loud, which is the way I like it. When Keith hits that chord after the first "Pleased to meet you" in SFTD, the volume of his guitar is jolting. As for Ronnie, he was nice and loud in the mix as well, and his tone was great. No more of that thin, flimsy Stratocaster sound he had from '94-'07.

It's the same with the «da-da-das» in JJF, I reckon?

That's what I called «organic and live mixing» in my earlier post. It's quite unusual nowadays that the sound guy will do evident real time sound enhancements.

Agree with your post rocker1. The guitars are way down low in the mix, and Jagger to high. I loved it when Mick had to really try to make himself heard because the guitars were so loud. They do seem to be louder on this tour though, going by what fans have said, and the clips viewed so far. Also, give me those old Ampegs or Mesa-Boogie's over a Fender Twin any day!

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rocker1
I'm on the fence about attending Zip Code shows, based primarily on how poor--in my humble ke to know what others think.

Drop your c0ck grab your socks and go see as many shows as you can that's my advice!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-28 14:32 by dcba.

Here is a little comparison. I haven't adjusted the sound levels, but it gives a fairly good indication on the guitar sound for the tours between 1990-2013.


Live At The Max 1990
MTV 1994
Bremen 1998
Olympia 2003
Copacabana 2006
Glastonbury 2013

The latter is low in volume, though.

Nice compilation Dandie, and thanks for including my home town! Great show that was, my dad got in for free there!

wow, all i can think after listening to that is that they must be so bored with playing that song over and over. something about your compilation really brings home the monotony they must feel.

but cool to have the comparison...

i can say from my own experience that the guitars were way louder in 2013 than 1989 and that was a good thing.

chuck should be unplugged completely though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-28 13:06 by Turner68.

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Turner68
wow, all i can think after listening to that is that they must be so bored with playing that song over and over. something about your compilation really brings home the monotony they must feel.

but cool to have the comparison...

i can say from my own experience that the guitars were way louder in 2013 than 1989 and that was a good thing.

chuck should be unplugged completely though.

1989 is not included. Then (before changing to Fender Twins for the Euro leg) their sound was best, imo:

Listen to the Recording of the Columbus concert: [www.iorr.org]

The guitars are louder than anything else.
Espencially at Honky Tonk Women

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
wow, all i can think after listening to that is that they must be so bored with playing that song over and over. something about your compilation really brings home the monotony they must feel.

but cool to have the comparison...

i can say from my own experience that the guitars were way louder in 2013 than 1989 and that was a good thing.

chuck should be unplugged completely though.

1989 is not included. Then (before changing to Fender Twins for the Euro leg) their sound was best, imo:

Richards used the Twin first on the 1989 tour, slaved through a Crown power amp for stage volume (that must have hurt!).

Mathijs