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I never been a big fan of Leeds 71 either, but it is interesting that even though they seemingly had an off-night, or something wrong with the energy at least, they still could perform some numbers, and especially slow blues numbers damn well. Comes to mind also a great version of "I Got The Blues" from otherwise second-rate Marquee show. It could be that those numbers didn't suffer from the lack of energy, but, howewer, it could also be that they were in a right mood for those kind of numbers...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-19 15:19 by Doxa.
Yeah, agreed. I also think IGTB is the best number from the Marquee-gig.
Keith was probably in that mood
Agree - IMO Jagger's performance on IGTB somehow seems more sincere and believable when you have the visual aspect to it. I've always thought IGTB on Sticky Fingers was kind of a weak link, too similar to Love In Vain and just Jagger doing a soul pastiche. Live, it has a whole new dimension.
Wow! Never heard that before. Personally, I find it to be more Redding/Stax-inspired than a LIV-ish number.
Jagger's a bit too punkish for this for my taste, and Ronnie... a bit over the top... too much mindless out-of-tune squeezing & screeching, dare I say: noodling. Not bad, really, but not the best version, either.
Some details there. How does THE BAND sound? Slow and a bit out of tune like in 69? Muddy, but with a couple of kick ass guitar solos like in 72? Or sonically and dynamically top notch, with Mick AND Keith peaking?
Even worse than I thought. Love in vein.
And it hurts. (btw I aimed at Jagger's forced pronunciation of the word vain). But really, it struck me how metallic and camp this sounded. Horrible, in one word. Not to bash anyone, but I was shocked indeed, in the bad sense of the word.
It's definitely grown on me a lot in the past few years, but yeah, the first few times I heard it I just felt they were going for the same kind of mood as Love In Vain but somehow not really getting it. It's part what Keith plays, part the way they go for this dramatic climax a la the '72 live versions of LIV. And of course I understand how the Stax influence played into that arrangement, but that was part of the problem initially - i.e. I never bought into Jagger as a soul singer. That changed when I heard him covering Solomon Burke at the Grammys a few years ago:
Well, LIV doesn't sound out of tune on YaYa's in my ears, which is sonically and dynamically top notch, to use your words, and does not have just Mick and Keith peaking, but the entire band. I may be a bit biased because the YaYa's version is what I grew up with, the album and LIV in particular inspired me to pick up a guitar and learn playing each and every lick, but even after all these years, LIV on YaYas could literally make me cry because of the inspired ensemble playing and Mick's stellar vocal delivery - the entire band performance so full of soul, simply transcendent.
Compared to other live versions it may even sound "simple", but that's part of the genius!
Let me make it clear that I absolutely love the Ya Yas-version. Always did.
I also picked up my guitar and played along with this version - placed the stylus at the beginning of the track again and again - good times!
It is indeed an excellent version.
Mick's voice is more fragile on Ya Yas, and LIV becomes a teardropping ballad - which is good, of course.
But what I like about the Texas 78-version is the sound of a blues band. Whereas Ya Yas shows a perfected folk ballad, Texas reveals a dirty blues. The main difference is Keith, who took on a bigger role which imo suits the song even better. Add Mick's more aggressive vocal approach, Bill and Charlie's perfected engine overhaul and Mac's brilliant keyboards.
Both versions are great of course, but I'll go for the climax of the 78 version. However, in this context this is semantics. Both versions are proof of the greatest band in the world in action
PS: Listen to Charlie round the 4:08-mark! I take the out of tune-part back regarding Ya Yas. I had a different 69-performance in mind
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-20 11:49 by DandelionPowderman.
I ran into the guy I referred to recently and asked him if he did in fact record the show. He confirmed to me that he did record it and had snuck his recorder in in his underwear. He said he will make a copy for me, but I'm unsure when I will get it and if I will be able to share it.
Absolutely, Dandy. We're talking about nuances here. Having slightly different preferences surely does not mean dismissing other versions!
If this is the case, you will be the keeper of the grail. Choose wisely my son.
No, I know what i am describing, thank you very much.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: March 19, 2015 15:18
Quote
DandelionPowderman
LIV and SCB are fantastic on a rather lackluster show, imo.
I never been a big fan of Leeds 71 either, but it is interesting that even though they seemingly had an off-night, or something wrong with the energy at least, they still could perform some numbers, and especially slow blues numbers damn well. Comes to mind also a great version of "I Got The Blues" from otherwise second-rate Marquee show. It could be that those numbers didn't suffer from the lack of energy, but, howewer, it could also be that they were in a right mood for those kind of numbers...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-19 15:19 by Doxa.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 19, 2015 15:28
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
LIV and SCB are fantastic on a rather lackluster show, imo.
I never been a big fan of Leeds 71 either, but it is interesting that even though they seemingly had an off-night, or something wrong with the energy at least, they still could perform some numbers, and especially slow blues numbers damn well. Comes to mind also a great version of "I Got The Blues" from otherwise second-rate Marquee show. It could be that those numbers didn't suffer from the lack of energy, but, howewer, it could also be that they were in a right mood for those kind of numbers...
- Doxa
Yeah, agreed. I also think IGTB is the best number from the Marquee-gig.
Keith was probably in that mood
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
Stoneburst
()
Date: March 19, 2015 15:34
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
LIV and SCB are fantastic on a rather lackluster show, imo.
I never been a big fan of Leeds 71 either, but it is interesting that even though they seemingly had an off-night, or something wrong with the energy at least, they still could perform some numbers, and especially slow blues numbers damn well. Comes to mind also a great version of "I Got The Blues" from otherwise second-rate Marquee show. It could be that those numbers didn't suffer from the lack of energy, but, howewer, it could also be that they were in a right mood for those kind of numbers...
- Doxa
Yeah, agreed. I also think IGTB is the best number from the Marquee-gig.
Keith was probably in that mood
Agree - IMO Jagger's performance on IGTB somehow seems more sincere and believable when you have the visual aspect to it. I've always thought IGTB on Sticky Fingers was kind of a weak link, too similar to Love In Vain and just Jagger doing a soul pastiche. Live, it has a whole new dimension.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 19, 2015 16:28
Quote
StoneburstQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
LIV and SCB are fantastic on a rather lackluster show, imo.
I never been a big fan of Leeds 71 either, but it is interesting that even though they seemingly had an off-night, or something wrong with the energy at least, they still could perform some numbers, and especially slow blues numbers damn well. Comes to mind also a great version of "I Got The Blues" from otherwise second-rate Marquee show. It could be that those numbers didn't suffer from the lack of energy, but, howewer, it could also be that they were in a right mood for those kind of numbers...
- Doxa
Yeah, agreed. I also think IGTB is the best number from the Marquee-gig.
Keith was probably in that mood
Agree - IMO Jagger's performance on IGTB somehow seems more sincere and believable when you have the visual aspect to it. I've always thought IGTB on Sticky Fingers was kind of a weak link, too similar to Love In Vain and just Jagger doing a soul pastiche. Live, it has a whole new dimension.
Wow! Never heard that before. Personally, I find it to be more Redding/Stax-inspired than a LIV-ish number.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: March 19, 2015 18:35
The Ya Yas version has so much tension and beauty. It's not just Taylor's impeccable solos, it's the way Bill threads in some beautifully harmonic notes. It all builds and ebbs with marvelous intensity, everyone locked in together. The 1978 version by comparison is...blah.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 19, 2015 18:39
You're describing the 78 version.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
LieB
()
Date: March 19, 2015 18:50
The Ya-Ya's version is the best officially released rendition of Love In Vain, in my opinion. Among the bootlegs, I love the one from the Charlotte '72 gig. It's similar to the Ladies & Gents version, of course, but up one notch in terms of dynamics and emotion.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 19, 2015 18:57
The 1970, 71 and 72 versions are all superior to the Ya Ya's version. I have a weak spot for the Leeds 71 version, but the Roundhouse 71 version is very good too. The Essen 1970 version is outstanding. They all are.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: March 19, 2015 19:07
OK, even if I am a well known "Woodist", I have to admit that the Ya Ya's version of Love in Vain is the best.
The other day the Brixton Academy LIV popped out from the shuffle of my ipod: I had to stop doing what I was doing and just listen blown away by its beauty. This would be my second best version.
The 78 version is - of course - exceptionally good, but it has that slightly kitsch "over dramatic" element that at times turns me off a little bit. The same for the 72 versions.
C
The other day the Brixton Academy LIV popped out from the shuffle of my ipod: I had to stop doing what I was doing and just listen blown away by its beauty. This would be my second best version.
The 78 version is - of course - exceptionally good, but it has that slightly kitsch "over dramatic" element that at times turns me off a little bit. The same for the 72 versions.
C
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: March 19, 2015 19:10
Man that Echoplex show sounds horrible. The guitar playing is so slow and watered down to "noodling" levels.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-19 19:11 by The Sicilian.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-19 19:11 by The Sicilian.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
runaway
()
Date: March 19, 2015 19:21
Another favorite of mine is the San Diego vinyl boot:
Rolling Stones - Love In Vain - San Diego - Nov 10, 1969
Rolling Stones - Love In Vain - San Diego - Nov 10, 1969
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: March 19, 2015 21:09
Quote
DandelionPowderman
As a band, I'll say this is the best LIV-version.
Jagger's a bit too punkish for this for my taste, and Ronnie... a bit over the top... too much mindless out-of-tune squeezing & screeching, dare I say: noodling. Not bad, really, but not the best version, either.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 19, 2015 21:31
Quote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
As a band, I'll say this is the best LIV-version.
Jagger's a bit too punkish for this for my taste, and Ronnie... a bit over the top... too much mindless out-of-tune squeezing & screeching, dare I say: noodling. Not bad, really, but not the best version, either.
Some details there. How does THE BAND sound? Slow and a bit out of tune like in 69? Muddy, but with a couple of kick ass guitar solos like in 72? Or sonically and dynamically top notch, with Mick AND Keith peaking?
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 19, 2015 22:09
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
As a band, I'll say this is the best LIV-version.
Jagger's a bit too punkish for this for my taste, and Ronnie... a bit over the top... too much mindless out-of-tune squeezing & screeching, dare I say: noodling. Not bad, really, but not the best version, either.
Some details there. How does THE BAND sound? Slow and a bit out of tune like in 69? Muddy, but with a couple of kick ass guitar solos like in 72? Or sonically and dynamically top notch, with Mick AND Keith peaking?
Even worse than I thought. Love in vein.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 19, 2015 22:12
Yep, right in the vein. Good description 
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 19, 2015 22:38
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Yep, right in the vein. Good description
And it hurts. (btw I aimed at Jagger's forced pronunciation of the word vain). But really, it struck me how metallic and camp this sounded. Horrible, in one word. Not to bash anyone, but I was shocked indeed, in the bad sense of the word.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
Stoneburst
()
Date: March 19, 2015 23:07
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
StoneburstQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
LIV and SCB are fantastic on a rather lackluster show, imo.
I never been a big fan of Leeds 71 either, but it is interesting that even though they seemingly had an off-night, or something wrong with the energy at least, they still could perform some numbers, and especially slow blues numbers damn well. Comes to mind also a great version of "I Got The Blues" from otherwise second-rate Marquee show. It could be that those numbers didn't suffer from the lack of energy, but, howewer, it could also be that they were in a right mood for those kind of numbers...
- Doxa
Yeah, agreed. I also think IGTB is the best number from the Marquee-gig.
Keith was probably in that mood
Agree - IMO Jagger's performance on IGTB somehow seems more sincere and believable when you have the visual aspect to it. I've always thought IGTB on Sticky Fingers was kind of a weak link, too similar to Love In Vain and just Jagger doing a soul pastiche. Live, it has a whole new dimension.
Wow! Never heard that before. Personally, I find it to be more Redding/Stax-inspired than a LIV-ish number.
It's definitely grown on me a lot in the past few years, but yeah, the first few times I heard it I just felt they were going for the same kind of mood as Love In Vain but somehow not really getting it. It's part what Keith plays, part the way they go for this dramatic climax a la the '72 live versions of LIV. And of course I understand how the Stax influence played into that arrangement, but that was part of the problem initially - i.e. I never bought into Jagger as a soul singer. That changed when I heard him covering Solomon Burke at the Grammys a few years ago:
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
MrBobMartini
()
Date: March 19, 2015 23:13
The '78 version is my favorite, though Ladies and Gentlemen is a close second. As far as the band goes, Bill and Charlie were never better than in 1978, and Keith was in tune for once. I suppose I put Taylor's solo's from '69 and '72 slightly above Ronnie's from '78, though I much prefer Ronnie's slide in this version with Faces from 1971 to both of those.
But there's one other reason I like the '78 version more than the other Stones versions, and besides Ronnie it's the only other thing common between the Stones in '78 and Faces on Sounds for Saturday. Ian McLagan on that Hammond B3!
But there's one other reason I like the '78 version more than the other Stones versions, and besides Ronnie it's the only other thing common between the Stones in '78 and Faces on Sounds for Saturday. Ian McLagan on that Hammond B3!
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 20, 2015 01:23
Mac rules, RIP!
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: March 20, 2015 07:21
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
As a band, I'll say this is the best LIV-version.
Jagger's a bit too punkish for this for my taste, and Ronnie... a bit over the top... too much mindless out-of-tune squeezing & screeching, dare I say: noodling. Not bad, really, but not the best version, either.
Some details there. How does THE BAND sound? Slow and a bit out of tune like in 69? Muddy, but with a couple of kick ass guitar solos like in 72? Or sonically and dynamically top notch, with Mick AND Keith peaking?
Well, LIV doesn't sound out of tune on YaYa's in my ears, which is sonically and dynamically top notch, to use your words, and does not have just Mick and Keith peaking, but the entire band. I may be a bit biased because the YaYa's version is what I grew up with, the album and LIV in particular inspired me to pick up a guitar and learn playing each and every lick, but even after all these years, LIV on YaYas could literally make me cry because of the inspired ensemble playing and Mick's stellar vocal delivery - the entire band performance so full of soul, simply transcendent.
Compared to other live versions it may even sound "simple", but that's part of the genius!
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 20, 2015 11:39
Quote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
As a band, I'll say this is the best LIV-version.
Jagger's a bit too punkish for this for my taste, and Ronnie... a bit over the top... too much mindless out-of-tune squeezing & screeching, dare I say: noodling. Not bad, really, but not the best version, either.
Some details there. How does THE BAND sound? Slow and a bit out of tune like in 69? Muddy, but with a couple of kick ass guitar solos like in 72? Or sonically and dynamically top notch, with Mick AND Keith peaking?
Well, LIV doesn't sound out of tune on YaYa's in my ears, which is sonically and dynamically top notch, to use your words, and does not have just Mick and Keith peaking, but the entire band. I may be a bit biased because the YaYa's version is what I grew up with, the album and LIV in particular inspired me to pick up a guitar and learn playing each and every lick, but even after all these years, LIV on YaYas could literally make me cry because of the inspired ensemble playing and Mick's stellar vocal delivery - the entire band performance so full of soul, simply transcendent.
Compared to other live versions it may even sound "simple", but that's part of the genius!
Let me make it clear that I absolutely love the Ya Yas-version. Always did.
I also picked up my guitar and played along with this version - placed the stylus at the beginning of the track again and again - good times!
It is indeed an excellent version.
Mick's voice is more fragile on Ya Yas, and LIV becomes a teardropping ballad - which is good, of course.
But what I like about the Texas 78-version is the sound of a blues band. Whereas Ya Yas shows a perfected folk ballad, Texas reveals a dirty blues. The main difference is Keith, who took on a bigger role which imo suits the song even better. Add Mick's more aggressive vocal approach, Bill and Charlie's perfected engine overhaul and Mac's brilliant keyboards.
Both versions are great of course, but I'll go for the climax of the 78 version. However, in this context this is semantics. Both versions are proof of the greatest band in the world in action
PS: Listen to Charlie round the 4:08-mark! I take the out of tune-part back regarding Ya Yas. I had a different 69-performance in mind
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-20 11:49 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
strat72
()
Date: March 20, 2015 12:34
The 78 version just doesn't work for me, and it's not just Ronnie's lacklustre playing that I don't like.
The L&G version is easily the best, followed by Ya-Yas....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-20 16:02 by strat72.
The L&G version is easily the best, followed by Ya-Yas....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-20 16:02 by strat72.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
Halup
()
Date: March 20, 2015 20:47
Quote
Plink
There was a thread about the Echoplex show last year and I asked about the performance and possible existence of video/audio of Love In Vain – thread link here: [www.iorr.org] (sorry, I don’t know how to link to the specific spot on the thread page). Halup replied (edited) “…Seeing Taylor on Love In Vain made me think he would have a larger role than he did in 2012…I had some friends who also attended the show and heard from one of them that the person I referred to recorded the audio of the whole show. I will try to ask this guy about that when I encounter him again.” Based on Halup’s writings, one might surmise that the performance of Love In Vain was quite good.
Flacnvinyl also posted the following: “Echoplex, like every gig on this tour, was professionally filmed and multitracked. The promotional snippets from every gig are straight off the board for audio, but the footage has been captured if they want to release it.”
Here’s hoping they release it someday soon.
Echoplex pro-shot clip:
Echoplex clip posted by BeforeTheyMakeMeRun in the thread mentioned above (appears to be amateur-shot):
I ran into the guy I referred to recently and asked him if he did in fact record the show. He confirmed to me that he did record it and had snuck his recorder in in his underwear. He said he will make a copy for me, but I'm unsure when I will get it and if I will be able to share it.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: March 20, 2015 20:58
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Both versions are great of course, but I'll go for the climax of the 78 version. However, in this context this is semantics. Both versions are proof of the greatest band in the world in action
Absolutely, Dandy. We're talking about nuances here. Having slightly different preferences surely does not mean dismissing other versions!
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
jazzbass
()
Date: March 20, 2015 22:21
Quote
HalupQuote
Plink
There was a thread about the Echoplex show last year and I asked about the performance and possible existence of video/audio of Love In Vain – thread link here: [www.iorr.org] (sorry, I don’t know how to link to the specific spot on the thread page). Halup replied (edited) “…Seeing Taylor on Love In Vain made me think he would have a larger role than he did in 2012…I had some friends who also attended the show and heard from one of them that the person I referred to recorded the audio of the whole show. I will try to ask this guy about that when I encounter him again.” Based on Halup’s writings, one might surmise that the performance of Love In Vain was quite good.
Flacnvinyl also posted the following: “Echoplex, like every gig on this tour, was professionally filmed and multitracked. The promotional snippets from every gig are straight off the board for audio, but the footage has been captured if they want to release it.”
Here’s hoping they release it someday soon.
Echoplex pro-shot clip:
Echoplex clip posted by BeforeTheyMakeMeRun in the thread mentioned above (appears to be amateur-shot):
I ran into the guy I referred to recently and asked him if he did in fact record the show. He confirmed to me that he did record it and had snuck his recorder in in his underwear. He said he will make a copy for me, but I'm unsure when I will get it and if I will be able to share it.
If this is the case, you will be the keeper of the grail. Choose wisely my son.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: March 20, 2015 22:46
Quote
DandelionPowderman
You're describing the 78 version.
No, I know what i am describing, thank you very much.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: March 21, 2015 03:55
No comparison.. The Ya Ya's and Ladies and Gents are some of the greatest examples of The Stones. Jagger is off the mark, his 1978 performance doesn't match the lyrics or mood like the others do. Ronnie is good but not anywhere near Mick Taylor's time stopping slide and tone. It's nice to hear Keith's alternate ideas in the 78 version, a very nice listen.
Re: Love in Vain at LA Echoplex, 2013
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 21, 2015 10:08
Quote
71TeleQuote
DandelionPowderman
You're describing the 78 version.
No, I know what i am describing, thank you very much.
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