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Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: July 3, 2021 12:43

Quote
wavelength

There really is no rational explanation.

I'd offer one :
MT made a giant misjudgement back in late'74. He thought the band was toast, that Keef wasn't going to live long, and it was time to jump off ship before it completely sank. MT thought the Stones adventure was nice but it was time to find another vehicule for his musical talent.

In that light you find his teaming with Jack Bruce logical : Bruce wanted to play a far more complex type of music than the Stones were playing and it matched MT's huge musical ambitions (and huge ego too?).

Of course it only took him months to realize that the Jack Bruce band was still-born the Stones were completing a sold-out tour of America...

And MT's "masterful" tactital move was in fact the biggest professional blunder in the history of rock.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-03 12:46 by dcba.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 3, 2021 16:07

I agree with most of that dcba, but I do think he was tired of being in the band and the lack of professional recognition as far as credits and creative expression were concerned helped in making his decision to leave. He obviously wasn’t happy or he wouldn’t have left.

In retrospect, the bad habits he developed would have easily been exacerbated with Stones money pouring in and I believe that’s why he said he might not have survived.

On a side note, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had the Bruce Band reverted to strictly Cream songs and ramped-up blues covers instead of breaking up when it wasn’t working. I think they would have been a much larger draw, although in turn might not have been the best for Taylor’s health.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-03 16:08 by TravelinMan.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: July 3, 2021 16:15

Quote
TravelinMan
I agree with most of that dcba, but I do think he was tired of being in the band and the lack of professional recognition as far as credits and creative expression were concerned helped in making his decision to leave. He obviously wasn’t happy or he wouldn’t have left.

In retrospect, the bad habits he developed would have easily been exacerbated with Stones money pouring in and I believe that’s why he said he might not have survived.

On a side note, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had the Bruce Band reverted to Cream songs and ramped-up blues covers instead of breaking up when it wasn’t working. I think they would have been a much larger draw, although in turn might not have been the best for Taylor’s health.
. I agree with dcba’s analysis.I would add however, if Mick and Keith really wanted him back he could havebeen asked to rejoin the band for the end of the tour or if they had some contractual agreement with Wood after the 1975 tour because Wood was not a member of the band.With Wyman they held his spot open for two years after he quit.And even after Darryl Jones played on the Voodoo Lounge Tour if Bill asked to rejoin I bet they’d accommodate him.I also bet Taylor would have rejoined in 1975 if offered the opportunity

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: July 3, 2021 16:38

<I also bet Taylor would have rejoined in 1975 if offered the opportunity>

Why do you believe that?

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: July 3, 2021 18:50

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Why do you believe that?

Maybe not in 1975 already, but one or two years later he must have learned his lesson...

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: July 3, 2021 19:02

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
DandelionPowderman


Why do you believe that?

Maybe not in 1975 already, but one or two years later he must have learned his lesson...

Too late by then, Ronnie joined.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: July 3, 2021 19:41

Quote
Rocktiludrop
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
DandelionPowderman


Why do you believe that?

Maybe not in 1975 already, but one or two years later he must have learned his lesson...

Too late by then, Ronnie joined.

...and was creatively burnt in roughly the same timespan as Brian Jones and Mick Taylor...

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: July 3, 2021 20:35

According to Rose Millar (on her facebook page) Marshall Chess tried convince Taylor to stay with the Stones because of an upcoming tour that would ensure the band an awful lot of money. Taylor replied: "Marshall, if I don't leave now they'll take me off in a pine box". End of the discussion.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: July 3, 2021 22:14

[www.youtube.com]


Charlie Watts - Talks about Drumming, B.Jones, M.Taylor, Cricket & more - Radio Broadcast 13/12/2013

MT part 4.25 to 6.25

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: July 3, 2021 22:37

[www.youtube.com]

Happy (2 Guitar Solos!): Mick Taylor w/Stones '72

Tuscon, AZ 6-14-72 (rare). Blistering hot guitar.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: wavelength ()
Date: July 3, 2021 22:47

MT made an irreversible decision to leave.
sick of the scene, the personalities, the music. he would have been a fit for black and blue but not some girls. it was down hill musically for the RS from there anyway. he didn’t really have a plan. the jack bruce thing was not really a factor in his decision. he did not stay for money and fame. he made the right decision. what happened after is a different chapter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-03 22:47 by wavelength.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 3, 2021 23:25

>Taylor replied: "Marshall, if I don't leave now they'll take me off in a pine box".

Again, he was being needlessly modest. Surely they could afford a proper walnut casket. They are, after all, the Rolling Stones.

jb

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: July 3, 2021 23:47

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Testify
Quote
Rocktiludrop
Quote
TravelinMan
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.

The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.

Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.

Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
Why did Wood get the credits for some songs instead? Wood himself explains it, if you want a credit you need to ask for it immediately with the Stones asking for it after years makes little sense, because it is difficult to remember what who did who did during the sessions.
Wood did it, Taylor could have done it too, the truth is that this was not the real reason that pushed Taylor away.
As Taylor himself said, drugs played an important role and at the time the Stones were experiencing a moment of uncertainty regardless of Taylor. Nobody at the time would have bet anything on the Rolling Stones who by all accounts were close to disbanding. This coupled with Taylor's drug problems drove him away, not the credits, which weren't in Taylor's head at the time.
If Taylor really cared about those credits he would get them, there were in fact financial deals between the band and him.

Sorry, I have to call BS here. First of all, trying to compare Taylor and Wood doesn’t work. Wood is older and was in a major band(s) for years. He understood how it worked. Taylor was looked after by elder statesman, John Mayall, who gave him credit when it was due. Taylor was taken care of and then joined the Stones as what, 19/20 year old? Talk about being thrown in the fire.

Secondly, are you totally ignoring the Nick Kent interview where Taylor said Jagger promised him credit? They obviously wrote together without Richards.

If he ever was "thrown in the fire" it must have been in 1969, when he joined the Stones. The songs in question where he claims he should have received credits for happened years later. By that time, he should have learnt how this business works. If not, well, call it naivety, greenness, whatever - in the end, it was his fault, no excuses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-03 23:48 by retired_dog.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: July 4, 2021 00:08

Quote
jbwelda
>Taylor replied: "Marshall, if I don't leave now they'll take me off in a pine box".

Again, he was being needlessly modest. Surely they could afford a proper walnut casket. They are, after all, the Rolling Stones.

jb

I don't know if he was needlessly modest. I guess it's always interesting to read Taylor's ex-wives interpretations. They might have a deeper insight.tongue sticking out smiley

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: July 4, 2021 01:07

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Why do you believe that?
Well, Bill Wymansupposedly said that Taylor made inquiry into possibly rejoining shortlyafter the Jack Bruce /Carla Bley Band disbanded , and Wyman said something like you don’t just let people come back that fast after they quit.I find thatquotes legitimacy dubious.It was in an old Book on The Rolling Stones.But every time a Stone asked him to help on a project , whether it was Bill or Keith or Mick he agreed to do it. He played on Talk is Cheap, the John Phillips album, the Rhythm Kings albums, Plunderd My Soul, live in KansS1981, etc. When it looked like in 1977 Keith might go to jail , Jagger asked Taylor if he’d rejoin if it was a lengthy imprisonment.Taylor , in respect to Keith ,said hopefully he wouldn’t be needed.Personally, when Wyman quit I think they made a mistake bringing Jones in.Taylor could have been brought in instead.He Ronnie and Keith could have split the bass duties on the albums and live.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: July 4, 2021 10:43

Quote
Taylor1
every time a Stone asked him to help on a project , whether it was Bill or Keith or Mick he agreed to do it. He played on Talk is Cheap, the John Phillips album, the Rhythm Kings albums, Plundered My Soul, live in Kansas 1981, etc.

If you exclude the 81 Kansas City show (which was the result of a contractual obligation) it took 35 years for MT to be working with Jagger again (1974-2009 for the EOMS reissue). I wouldn't call it a close proximity.

As for Keith : well Keef did with MT what he did with Bobby Keys. No matter what happens (you quit (MT) or you're fired (Keys) you're still part of the family and I'll gladly work with you again anytime.

Keys was fired from the band during the 73 Euro tour by Jagger but as early as July 75 Keef had managed to have back onstage for the L.A. gigs in blatant violation of Jagger's ukaze.

That's Keef and his "who the f&ck is Mick Jagger" attitude.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: July 4, 2021 11:58

Quote
dcba
Quote
Taylor1
every time a Stone asked him to help on a project , whether it was Bill or Keith or Mick he agreed to do it. He played on Talk is Cheap, the John Phillips album, the Rhythm Kings albums, Plundered My Soul, live in Kansas 1981, etc.

If you exclude the 81 Kansas City show (which was the result of a contractual obligation) it took 35 years for MT to be working with Jagger again (1974-2009 for the EOMS reissue). I wouldn't call it a close proximity.

As for Keith : well Keef did with MT what he did with Bobby Keys. No matter what happens (you quit (MT) or you're fired (Keys) you're still part of the family and I'll gladly work with you again anytime.

Keys was fired from the band during the 73 Euro tour by Jagger but as early as July 75 Keef had managed to have back onstage for the L.A. gigs in blatant violation of Jagger's ukaze.

That's Keef and his "who the f&ck is Mick Jagger" attitude.


SORRY replied to the wrong poster, meant for Taylor 1

Taylor replace Keith. ??, I'm not sure how that works, maybe if Wood replaced Keith and Taylor replace Wood, but really anyone who knows about this music and the way Keiths guitar constructs most of it, I find it highly unlikely Wood or Taylor could replace Keith.
In a way although Keith isn't a technical guitarist by any stretch of the imagination, he was almost impossible to replace in his prime and on the night's he was on fire. From 1972 to 2003 on a good night only Keith could play like Keith.
Keiths guitar sort of is the Stones sound, for me anyway, no Mick no Stones, no Keith no Stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-04 12:02 by Rocktiludrop.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: July 4, 2021 15:56

It’s pretty accurate to say that when Keith got busted for heroin in Canada in 1977Jagger reached out to ask Taylor if he’d rejoin should Keith go to prison for an extended period of time.All I said was if Mick and Keith really wanted Taylor to remain with the band they would have in June 1975 asked Taylor if he wanted to rejoin. Wood was only a guest on the tour at that time.And it isn’t like Taylor was like Brian in 1969 when he was not contributing to the band when Taylor quit.And unlike Brian , Taylor was well liked by the band when he quit. .I’m not saying Wood wasn’t a good replacement.But it was such a short time from December 1974 to June 1975 when the Carla Bley / Bruce band disbanded.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: July 4, 2021 16:15

Quote
Taylor1
It’s pretty accurate to say that when Keith got busted for heroin in Canada in 1977Jagger reached out to ask Taylor if he’d rejoin should Keith go to prison for an extended period of time.All I said was if Mick and Keith really wanted Taylor to remain with the band they would have in June 1975 asked Taylor if he wanted to rejoin. Wood was only a guest on the tour at that time.And it isn’t like Taylor was like Brian in 1969 when he was not contributing to the band when Taylor quit.And unlike Brian , Taylor was well liked by the band when he quit. .I’m not saying Wood wasn’t a good replacement.But it was such a short time from December 1974 to June 1975 when the Carla Bley / Bruce band disbanded.

I would bet ego got in the way. "No one quits the Rolling Stones".

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: July 4, 2021 17:38

Probably a coke-fuelled decision.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 6, 2021 03:53

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Testify
Quote
Rocktiludrop
Quote
TravelinMan
First of all, Taylor never hired a lawyer and specifically said “I wrote these songs.” He said he feels like n retrospect he should have received some credit. He said he expected some credit and Jagger told him he would. He also said the songs would have been written, perhaps, but they wouldn’t have sounded the way they did.

The Stones are a different animal when it comes to songwriting credit, we all know this. A guy like John Mayall might have given credit much more freely than the Glimmers. I’ve personally received songwriting credit for programming a drum part. So it really is subjective.

Whether you believe he deserves it or not, he felt he did to some extent and Jagger told him as much. Taylor also said he just think they forgot and didn’t do it on purpose, it just didn’t matter to them. So not keeping your lead guitarist happy is a reason a lead guitarist might leave a band. It’s that simple.

Great post TravelinMan, this sums it up and it's why i believe he left.
Why did Wood get the credits for some songs instead? Wood himself explains it, if you want a credit you need to ask for it immediately with the Stones asking for it after years makes little sense, because it is difficult to remember what who did who did during the sessions.
Wood did it, Taylor could have done it too, the truth is that this was not the real reason that pushed Taylor away.
As Taylor himself said, drugs played an important role and at the time the Stones were experiencing a moment of uncertainty regardless of Taylor. Nobody at the time would have bet anything on the Rolling Stones who by all accounts were close to disbanding. This coupled with Taylor's drug problems drove him away, not the credits, which weren't in Taylor's head at the time.
If Taylor really cared about those credits he would get them, there were in fact financial deals between the band and him.

Sorry, I have to call BS here. First of all, trying to compare Taylor and Wood doesn’t work. Wood is older and was in a major band(s) for years. He understood how it worked. Taylor was looked after by elder statesman, John Mayall, who gave him credit when it was due. Taylor was taken care of and then joined the Stones as what, 19/20 year old? Talk about being thrown in the fire.

Secondly, are you totally ignoring the Nick Kent interview where Taylor said Jagger promised him credit? They obviously wrote together without Richards.

If he ever was "thrown in the fire" it must have been in 1969, when he joined the Stones. The songs in question where he claims he should have received credits for happened years later. By that time, he should have learnt how this business works. If not, well, call it naivety, greenness, whatever - in the end, it was his fault, no excuses.

Oh no, not an excuse. I just think it’s not relevant to compare Taylor to Wood in their respective positions within the band. You make a great point, but Moonlight Mile, Sway, the coda to Can’t You Hear Me Knocking, and even Hide Your Love come from 1970. So not exactly a ton of time in the band at that point especially when you consider it’s the first occurrence of Taylor recording a new album with the band. And like I’ve already pointed out, Taylor was visually ticked off when Kent told him he wasn’t on the credits to IORR.

Look, I’m not English. But I know how English people go about things. It’s not a very English thing to do griping about broken promises etc



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-06 03:54 by TravelinMan.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: July 8, 2021 22:07

[www.youtube.com]


Positive Statement (feat. Bruce Gary, Kim Gardner, Mick Taylor, Leon Rubinhold, Don Adey, Ivan Neville, Paula Gardner, PP Arnold) · The Wobblers


Tasteful playing by MT.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: July 8, 2021 22:09

[www.youtube.com]

John Mayall and Mick Taylor - Walking on Sunset - Groningen 2015

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: July 8, 2021 23:53

Quote
TravelinMan
Taylor was visually ticked off when Kent told him he wasn’t on the credits to IORR.

Imho MT had one idea : breaking the Keef/Mick songwriting partnership and make a new one with Jagger.
When he saw that - no matter what he'd achieve with Jagger - the songs would still be credited KR/MJ, he split...

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 9, 2021 01:55

Quote
dcba
Quote
TravelinMan
Taylor was visually ticked off when Kent told him he wasn’t on the credits to IORR.

Imho MT had one idea : breaking the Keef/Mick songwriting partnership and make a new one with Jagger.
When he saw that - no matter what he'd achieve with Jagger - the songs would still be credited KR/MJ, he split...

That sounds pretty malicious and I don’t think there is any evidence to support it. Can’t a guy want credit for work he put in? And having to hang out and write with Jagger spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: July 9, 2021 03:55

Quote
dcba
Quote
TravelinMan
Taylor was visually ticked off when Kent told him he wasn’t on the credits to IORR.

Imho MT had one idea : breaking the Keef/Mick songwriting partnership and make a new one with Jagger.
When he saw that - no matter what he'd achieve with Jagger - the songs would still be credited KR/MJ, he split...

Naaah... I've met Taylor many times, and say what you want about him, but one thing that never came to mind is a malicious character. A phlegmatic personality causing a lot of problems in his professional life comes probably closer to the truth imo.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: stargroover ()
Date: July 9, 2021 08:19

A humble talented cat with an eroded memory.I interviewed him almost twenty years back.
Still a brilliant guitarist!Hopefully he will record with the Stones once again.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: July 11, 2021 22:12

[www.youtube.com]

Nice song by Peter and tasteful playing by MT.

I'm Not Giving Up" Peter Karp Roadshow Band w/Mick Taylor

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: July 19, 2021 20:57

[www.youtube.com]

The Rolling Stones with Mick Taylor - Satisfaction and Final Bow - San Jose 2013 May 8

Mick Taylor at 3.35 those bends and vibrato to 4.00 mark.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: July 21, 2021 04:36

Mick Taylor Reviews the Singles of July, 1969:

[youtu.be]

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