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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

Now you touch the sensible topic of "legally approving" and "morally approving". Stone Age and Metamorphosis may not have been morally approved by the band, but the record companies involved (ABKCO and DECCA) were legally entitled to release these albums. Metamorphosis was subject of a legal settlement between ABKCO and the band, allowing them to release one more album with previously unreleased material (some sources claim that the original settlement deal included in fact two more albums with unreleased material, one being Metamorphosis and the other one R'n'R Circus, which turned up 2 decades later).

Moral approvement is a somewhat different beast. The band can publicly claim that they don't like the contents of whatever stuff the record company puts out, but in case the record company has the legal right to do it, well, what can a poor band do...

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

Now you touch the sensible topic of "legally approving" and "morally approving". Stone Age and Metamorphosis may not have been morally approved by the band, but the record companies involved (ABKCO and DECCA) were legally entitled to release these albums. Metamorphosis was subject of a legal settlement between ABKCO and the band, allowing them to release one more album with previously unreleased material (some sources claim that the original settlement deal included in fact two more albums with unreleased material, one being Metamorphosis and the other one R'n'R Circus, which turned up 2 decades later).

Moral approvement is a somewhat different beast. The band can publicly claim that they don't like the contents of whatever stuff the record company puts out, but in case the record company has the legal right to do it, well, what can a poor band do...

True.

Didn't they place an ad in a newspaper to warn the public, and to show their dissatisfaction for the Stone Age release?

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DandelionPowderman

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

Now you touch the sensible topic of "legally approving" and "morally approving". Stone Age and Metamorphosis may not have been morally approved by the band, but the record companies involved (ABKCO and DECCA) were legally entitled to release these albums. Metamorphosis was subject of a legal settlement between ABKCO and the band, allowing them to release one more album with previously unreleased material (some sources claim that the original settlement deal included in fact two more albums with unreleased material, one being Metamorphosis and the other one R'n'R Circus, which turned up 2 decades later).

Moral approvement is a somewhat different beast. The band can publicly claim that they don't like the contents of whatever stuff the record company puts out, but in case the record company has the legal right to do it, well, what can a poor band do...

True.

Didn't they place an ad in a newspaper to warn the public, and to show their dissatisfaction for the Stone Age release?

Yup!




"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Thanks, Deltics

Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

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jlowe
Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

ABKCO Music owns the 1960s songs, all the songs on STICKY FINGERS and a few songs on EXILE.

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GasLightStreet

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jlowe
Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

ABKCO Music owns the 1960s songs, all the songs on STICKY FINGERS and a few songs on EXILE.

OK Thanks....it was actually the recording masters I was referring to, rather than the music publishing.

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GasLightStreet

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jlowe
Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

ABKCO Music owns the 1960s songs, all the songs on STICKY FINGERS and a few songs on EXILE.

Only WH and BS (possibly SM) + SAL and LC (possibly SBA)?

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

In the mid-90's the Swinging Pig label was available in Dutch, Belgium and Luxembourg record shops thanks to a legal loophole.

It didn't make the SP releases official though.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

In the mid-90's the Swinging Pig label was available in Dutch, Belgium and Luxembourg record shops thanks to a legal loophole.

It didn't make the SP releases official though.

Mathijs

So you compare German DECCA with Swingin' pig? That's truly magnificent ><

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silkcut1978_

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

In the mid-90's the Swinging Pig label was available in Dutch, Belgium and Luxembourg record shops thanks to a legal loophole.

It didn't make the SP releases official though.

Mathijs

So you compare German DECCA with Swingin' pig? That's truly magnificent ><

No not at all. I just stated that the mere fact something is available in a shop doesn't make it legal.

The 1984 German release was official, but the inclusion and the included single disc was not. I agree fully with you on this.

Mathijs

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silkcut1978_

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it's as simple as this: The release was official, but the inclusion of CSB was dubious. That doesn't alter the fact that a lot of customers got CS Blues on an official release.

So, it was released to the public (think about what that word means) for a limited time. Whether it was legal or not is another matter.

Stone Age and Metamorphosis were also release and NOT approved by the band.

In the mid-90's the Swinging Pig label was available in Dutch, Belgium and Luxembourg record shops thanks to a legal loophole.

It didn't make the SP releases official though.

Mathijs

So you compare German DECCA with Swingin' pig? That's truly magnificent ><

I think he's comparing the SP releases with the single within the authorised compilation

But the difference here is that an unauthorised single winds up within an official release. To use other words, CS Blues was made publicly available within an official release.

What about the alternate version of All Down the Line released a few years back, was like the Japanese b-side for Plundered My Soul or something. Does anyone know where I can hear that now, someone here I think posted it a few years back.

Here it is..

[www.youtube.com]

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Hound Dog
What about the alternate version of All Down the Line released a few years back, was like the Japanese b-side for Plundered My Soul or something.

It is on the japanese Exile Deluxe too (the one I haunted at the time).
One of the rare unheard before and not reworked track.

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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jlowe
Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

ABKCO Music owns the 1960s songs, all the songs on STICKY FINGERS and a few songs on EXILE.

Only WH and BS (possibly SM) + SAL and LC (possibly SBA)?

yeah, I don't believe it's all the songs on Sticky Fingers either.

As far as I know it's the 60s material plus BS and WH. Nothing more.

JumpingKentFlash

I read somewhere that the other songs I mentioned (also recorded in the 60s) were ABKCO-songs as well. I wish I remember where...

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JumpingKentFlash
As far as I know it's the 60s material plus BS and WH. Nothing more.

That must be wrong, because at least

All Down The Line
Sweet Virginia
Shine A Light
and
Loving Cup

are on the abkco sampler release: Songs of The Rolling Stones







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-06 00:08 by TooTough.

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kowalski
- Almost hear You Sigh - promo remix

I've been aware of this for years, still never heard it.

Thanks, TooTough. Should Sister Morphine have been there as well?

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TooTough

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JumpingKentFlash
As far as I know it's the 60s material plus BS and WH. Nothing more.

That must be wrong, because at least

All Down The Line
Sweet Virginia
Shine A Light
and
Loving Cup

are on the abkco sampler release: Songs of The Rolling Stones

True. And that was because those songs were written and published in 1969 and 1970 and therefore fell under their contract with ABKCO.
The RECORDINGS however, were owned by The Stones themselves, which is why ABKCO couldn't use them on their compilations.

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TooTough

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JumpingKentFlash
As far as I know it's the 60s material plus BS and WH. Nothing more.

That must be wrong, because at least

All Down The Line
Sweet Virginia
Shine A Light
and
Loving Cup

are on the abkco sampler release: Songs of The Rolling Stones

AH HA! That's where you're wrong! It's not 'Shine A Light'...it's 'Shine THE Light'!

One of the rarest track is probably "Claudine" from a surviving first pressing of Emotional Rescue. (if it exists...)

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mitch
One of the rarest track is probably "Claudine" from a surviving first pressing of Emotional Rescue. (if it exists...)

Never heard about that, would be a nice find

I have a copy from India of "Emotional Rescue" with copyright/produced 1980 on artwork and label, but with "If I Was A Dancer" instead of "Dance".

Not a rare track at all but just in case they've really released it in 1980 they were a year ahead in time with "If I Was A Dancer".

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silkcut1978_

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mitch
One of the rarest track is probably "Claudine" from a surviving first pressing of Emotional Rescue. (if it exists...)

Never heard about that, would be a nice find

I have a copy from India of "Emotional Rescue" with copyright/produced 1980 on artwork and label, but with "If I Was A Dancer" instead of "Dance".

Not a rare track at all but just in case they've really released it in 1980 they were a year ahead in time with "If I Was A Dancer".

that's wild...you have to wonder how the hell that even happened. it would be an interesting story.

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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jlowe
Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

ABKCO Music owns the 1960s songs, all the songs on STICKY FINGERS and a few songs on EXILE.

Only WH and BS (possibly SM) + SAL and LC (possibly SBA)?

yeah, I don't believe it's all the songs on Sticky Fingers either.

All the songs on SF are ABKCO Music, the same as the songs on LET IT BLEED and BEGGARS and so on. The Stones may own the masters...

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Title5Take1

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kowalski
- Almost hear You Sigh - promo remix

I've been aware of this for years, still never heard it.

There's the edit version, which is on HOT STUFF - the studio recordings. I never saw the CD single and have never heard the remix.

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BeforeTheyMakeMeRun

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TooTough

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JumpingKentFlash
As far as I know it's the 60s material plus BS and WH. Nothing more.

That must be wrong, because at least

All Down The Line
Sweet Virginia
Shine A Light
and
Loving Cup

are on the abkco sampler release: Songs of The Rolling Stones

AH HA! That's where you're wrong! It's not 'Shine A Light'...it's 'Shine THE Light'!

Also Jumpin' Jack Flash is misspelled.

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GasLightStreet

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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jlowe
Just out of interest, does DECCA have any involvement/income from the Stones now?
Or is the pre 70's material solely owned by ABKCO?

ABKCO Music owns the 1960s songs, all the songs on STICKY FINGERS and a few songs on EXILE.

Only WH and BS (possibly SM) + SAL and LC (possibly SBA)?

yeah, I don't believe it's all the songs on Sticky Fingers either.

All the songs on SF are ABKCO Music, the same as the songs on LET IT BLEED and BEGGARS and so on. The Stones may own the masters...

I don't think so, because SF was their first album on Rolling Stones Records, and only a couple of the tracks, produced in the 60s, were owned by ABKCO.

This is what I have read about DECCA, ABKCO, SF and the rights in every publication I've come over so far:

"With the end of their Decca/London association at hand, The Rolling Stones would finally be free to release their albums (cover art and all) as they pleased. However, their departing manager Allen Klein dealt the group a major blow when they discovered that they had inadvertently signed over their entire 1960s copyrights to Klein and his company ABKCO, which is how all of their material from 1963's "Come On" to Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out! The Rolling Stones in Concert has since come to be released by ABKCO Records. The band would remain incensed with Klein for decades over the act.

When Decca informed The Rolling Stones that they were owed one more single, they cheekily submitted a track called "@#$%& Blues",[5] which was guaranteed to be refused. Instead, Decca released the two-year-old Beggars Banquet track "Street Fighting Man" while Klein would have dual copyright ownership, with The Rolling Stones, of "Brown Sugar" and "Wild Horses".

Why Klein didn't have ownership over Sister Morphine, Loving Cup, Shine A Light, All Down The Line and Sweet Black Angel is a bit baffling, though...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-06 16:03 by DandelionPowderman.