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Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: hockenheim95 ()
Date: November 2, 2021 13:10

I will be attending the show in Charleston on November 13! It's on my way from Atlanta to Detroit. Scored awesome seats (1st row on the Floor 3 Section) for Standard price three days ago. Really looking Forward to it

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: November 2, 2021 16:32

Quote
slewan
Quote
mikey C
Tour kicks off Tonight looking forward to the Setlist and Bob's new Recruits!

without any doubt the most interesting kick off of a Dylan tour in decades
1. He didn't perform a concert for nearly two years – the longest gap in touring since 1981-1984(!)
2. According to rumors his band is partly changed (Charlie Sexton leaving and Charly Drayton being the new drummer)
3. None of the songs from Rough and Rowdy Ways has been performed yet

Nobody knows what's gonna happen. Will be continue where he stopped two years ago? Will he kept the same structure of the setlist and just replace a few old songs by some new songs? Will he chance everything? Will there be new arrangements of old songs? Will he do his show in 'Shadow Kingdom' style? Will he add a small 'Shadow Kingdom' set (like he used to do an acoustic set many years ago)? Will be play piano or guitar or both or nothing? etc. etc. etc.?

Interesting, I didn't know about the Charly Drayton rumor. I will be at the show tonight and I will report...though things move pretty fast these days so reports might come to this page before mine do!

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: November 2, 2021 19:18

I found this on the Expecting Rain website today:

[www.bobdylan-comewritersandcritics.com]


Bob Dylan stickers! (I wonder if they guy who hated the Saved album so much ever changed his mind about it? Initially I didn't care for it either, but now I think it's really good)

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: November 3, 2021 07:59

look at that setlist => [www.boblinks.com]

eight(!) new songs were performed for the first time (and no greatest hits!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 08:09 by slewan.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: November 3, 2021 09:05

Does anyone have any idea why Bob is so devoted to 'Early Roman Kings'? To my ears it's just a 'Mannish Boy'- style riff, with nothing else to recommend it. Unless I'm missing something?

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: November 3, 2021 13:58

Quote
bakersfield
Does anyone have any idea why Bob is so devoted to 'Early Roman Kings'? To my ears it's just a 'Mannish Boy'- style riff, with nothing else to recommend it. Unless I'm missing something?

even Dylan needs an easy song to relax on

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: windmelody ()
Date: November 3, 2021 14:24

Quote
bakersfield
Does anyone have any idea why Bob is so devoted to 'Early Roman Kings'? To my ears it's just a 'Mannish Boy'- style riff, with nothing else to recommend it. Unless I'm missing something?

"Early Roman Kings" works well live; it is the "Mannish Boy"-Riff indeed, but in my opinion the songs has a strong aura of its own.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: November 3, 2021 15:04

Quote
slewan
look at that setlist => [www.boblinks.com]

eight(!) new songs were performed for the first time (and no greatest hits!)
That is a setlist to pack the fans in ! A stark contrast to the Stones tried and true warhorse heavy setlist . Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 3, 2021 15:12

Quote
TheGreek
Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

... and to play theaters! winking smiley

I love the Man but he's not in the same league as the stones. When you play a stadium you just can't build a set with "Ventilator Blues" Melody" and "Fight".

You have to play the hits.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: November 3, 2021 16:24

Quote
dcba
Quote
TheGreek
Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

... and to play theaters! winking smiley

I love the Man but he's not in the same league as the stones. When you play a stadium you just can't build a set with "Ventilator Blues" Melody" and "Fight".

You have to play the hits.

I beg to differ. Bob is absolutely in the same league as the Stones. The Stones are my favorite, but they most certainly share the league, IMHO. Bob is really on a higher level within the league, though again the Stones are my favorite. To your point, they are playing different types of venues. If the Stones played theaters they could (I think) get away with those songs you mentioned...and if Bob played stadiums he too would likely be playing more hits I suspect, though he does tend to tour behind his current stuff at any given time in his history.

I was at the tour opener last night and he sounded great. I've seen him many times over the years dating back to 1998 and as is widely known it can be a hit or miss experience. I don't know if it was the time off or just renewed inspiration or something else, but last night was one of the best Dylan shows I've seen. A killer show all around, albeit with a few piano problems here and there, it seemed. The setlist is posted so no need to report there, but I certainly can confirm that the drummer is Charly Drayton who was also great to watch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-05 15:28 by floodonthepage.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: November 3, 2021 16:55

Quote
dcba
Quote
TheGreek
Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

... and to play theaters! winking smiley

I love the Man but he's not in the same league as the stones. When you play a stadium you just can't build a set with "Ventilator Blues" Melody" and "Fight".

You have to play the hits.

Nobody plays in Bob Dylan's league!
Apart from his music etc. his greatest achievement is maybe that he is really able to do what he wants, to play what he wants, leave out greatest hits etc. What he basically did during his never ending to was to form, create and educate an audience that is really his and accepts what he's doing and the way he is having his way. In contrast the Stones depend much more on their audience and therefore force to play mostly greatest hits.
Playing in front if huge crowds surely makes it necessary to play more hits. But if they Stones try to form an audience like Dylan did they could 'afford' to play more obscure stuff…

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 3, 2021 17:14

Quote
slewan

Nobody plays in Bob Dylan's league!
Apart from his music etc. his greatest achievement is maybe that he is really able to do what he wants, to play what he wants, leave out greatest hits etc. What he basically did during his never ending to was to form, create and educate an audience that is really his and accepts what he's doing and the way he is having his way. In contrast the Stones depend much more on their audience and therefore force to play mostly greatest hits.

Playing in front if huge crowds surely makes it necessary to play more hits. But if the Stones try to form an audience like Dylan did they could 'afford' to play more obscure stuff

I agree 10000% about Bob. Regarding our band, if they were to play theaters night after do you think Mick would agree to charge 125$ per head as Bob Dylan did for that Nov. 2 concert?
[www.boblinks.com]

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: November 3, 2021 17:19

I had seen the man numerous times over the years since 1978 up to 2014. After that, he lost me with Sinatra song-heavy, almost identical setlist day after day AKA Never Changing Tour.

Does he do things differently these days?

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: November 3, 2021 17:36

Quote
dcba
Quote
TheGreek
Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

... and to play theaters! winking smiley

I love the Man but he's not in the same league as the stones. When you play a stadium you just can't build a set with "Ventilator Blues" Melody" and "Fight".

You have to play the hits.

The question at stake is if he is not able to play stadiums anymore because of setlists like this or is he deliberately playing smaller venues to be able to play "obscure" setlists like this one?

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 3, 2021 17:42

Quote
slewan
Quote
dcba
Quote
TheGreek
Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

... and to play theaters! winking smiley

I love the Man but he's not in the same league as the stones. When you play a stadium you just can't build a set with "Ventilator Blues" Melody" and "Fight".

You have to play the hits.

Nobody plays in Bob Dylan's league!
Apart from his music etc. his greatest achievement is maybe that he is really able to do what he wants, to play what he wants, leave out greatest hits etc. What he basically did during his never ending to was to form, create and educate an audience that is really his and accepts what he's doing and the way he is having his way. In contrast the Stones depend much more on their audience and therefore force to play mostly greatest hits.
Playing in front if huge crowds surely makes it necessary to play more hits. But if they Stones try to form an audience like Dylan did they could 'afford' to play more obscure stuff…

True, Bob plays in a league of its own.

But yeah, it is questionable has Dylan ever been such a concert draw as the Stones, or would he be now if he would play just the hits? Don't know, but the fact is that since the Stones started the Mega Tour era in 1989 and Bob around the same time the Never Ending Tour their paths have been gone to opposite directions. And now if we compare the concerts of last night, the Stones look like having perfected the greatest hits stadium show, while Bob sounds like more avantgarde than ever....

But with Dylan I always have had the feel that it is not really a choice between several options (i.e. to play greatest hits close to originals for stadiums or more obscure stuff by his idiosyncratic way to largely smaller audiences), but like he is destined to do what and how he does... In some true artistic sense, he really have no option (than to follow his muse). I think pretty telling is in his CHRONICLES where he describes his career obstacles in the 80's. Back then he was pretty much doing big venues and playing familiar songs and mostly with high-profile musicians (like Taylor, Santana, Petty, Greatful Dead, etc.), but he described there that he lost the connection to his songs, and felt like couldn't intepret them any longer. I recall him writing there a pretty spot on line: "My image can fill up a stadium, but I can't". So, in a way, the 'Never Ending Tour' concept came more out of necessity in order to continue a career.

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 17:58 by Doxa.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: November 3, 2021 17:58

Quote
Doxa
Quote
slewan
Quote
dcba
Quote
TheGreek
Bob's setlist is to put it mildly obscure .

... and to play theaters! winking smiley

I love the Man but he's not in the same league as the stones. When you play a stadium you just can't build a set with "Ventilator Blues" Melody" and "Fight".

You have to play the hits.

Nobody plays in Bob Dylan's league!
Apart from his music etc. his greatest achievement is maybe that he is really able to do what he wants, to play what he wants, leave out greatest hits etc. What he basically did during his never ending to was to form, create and educate an audience that is really his and accepts what he's doing and the way he is having his way. In contrast the Stones depend much more on their audience and therefore force to play mostly greatest hits.
Playing in front if huge crowds surely makes it necessary to play more hits. But if they Stones try to form an audience like Dylan did they could 'afford' to play more obscure stuff…

True, Bob plays in a league of its own.

But yeah, it is questionable has Dylan ever been such a concert draw as the Stones, or would he be now if he would play just the hits? Don't know, but the fact is that since the Stones started the Mega Tour era in 1989 and Bob around the same time the Never Ending Tour their paths have been gone to opposite directions. And now if we compare the concerts of last night, the Stones look like having perfected the greatest hits stadium show, while Bob sounds like more avantgarde than ever....

But with Dylan I always have had the feel that it is not really a choice between several options (i.e. to play greatest hits close to originals for stadiums or more obscure stuff by his idiosyncratic way to largely smaller audiences), but like he is destined to do what and how he does... In some true artistic sense, he really have no option. I think pretty telling is in his CHRONICLES where he describes his career in the 80's. Back then he was pretty much doing big venues and playing familiar songs and mostly with high-profile musicians (like Taylor, Santana, Petty, Greatful Dead, etc.), but he described there that he lost the connection to his songs, and felt like couldn't intepret them any longer. I recall him writing there a pretty spot on-like: "My image can fill up a stadium, but I can't". So, in a way, the 'Never Ending Tour' concept came more out of necessity in order to continue a career.

- Doxa

That's exactly the point, Doxa.

Concerning the Stones, that's why I wrote in one of these setlist discussion threads many years ago that "they are trapped in their larger-than-life fame". As long as they are able to fill stadiums with a greatest hits-show, it's a conscious artistic decision not to go Dylan's route to be able to play adventurous shows consisting of deep cuts to a large degree. Riches and fame won over artistry here...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 17:59 by retired_dog.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 3, 2021 18:30

Quote
retired_dog



Concerning the Stones, that's why I wrote in one of these setlist discussion threads many years ago that "they are trapped in their larger-than-life fame". As long as they are able to fill stadiums with a greatest hits-show, it's a conscious artistic decision not to go Dylan's route to be able to play adventurous shows consisting of deep cuts to a large degree. Riches and fame won over artistry here...

Two quotes pop up to mind.

(1) Last year or so Paul MCartney said something to the effect that he admires how daring Dylan is, and hoped he would be such daring as well, but he can't.

(2) When Dylan played at Coachilla (or what it was called), Mick and Keith were looking at Bob's performance. According to his own words, Keith said to Mick something to the effect 'look, this can be done like that as well'. If Keith were to be honest, he should had added 'of course, we can't'.

I guess when there is so much riches and fame on the table and the people still able to take them, like Macca and the Twins are, they really 'can't'... But that, as you pointed, actually is an artistic choice.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 18:33 by Doxa.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: November 3, 2021 21:10

well, I think Dylan could have done this the way like the Stones did. Think about his 1974, 1984 and especially his 1978 tour(s) and imagine Dylan had followed that path, giving the masses greatest hits shows, everything they want etc. He might still fill stadiums.

But Dylan opted for his integrity as an artist while the Stones adopted a very different business concert.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: November 3, 2021 22:05

Quote
slewan
.

But Dylan opted for his integrity as an artist while the Stones adopted a very different business concert.

Bob: An Artist

Stones: Entertainers.


For over 30 years "a Rolling Stones concert" experience has become so predictable, it's almost like seeing a performance of Beethoven's 9th. There's really no point in buying a new live album or video, because the setlist is mostly the same-old same-old.

Bob mixes it up by adding new songs and re-arranging the old ones.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 3, 2021 23:26

Dylan mixes it up arguably too much, although it keeps it from being stale.

The Stones could afford to mix it up more than they do. I don't buy and never have the "a stadium can't handle certain things". The last time I saw them they played She's A Rainbow and Sweet Virginia. Not exactly radio hits but they go over fine. Its a stadium, people have short term memories. As long as they get Jumpin Jack Flash and Satisfaction, they'll go home happy. Thats oversimplifying but really not by much. In a 20 song setlist, they can absolutely afford to throw in 5 rarities/non radio hits. Without question. 2 true deep cuts and a rotation of other tracks they don't often play. Not like All Down The Line and Monkey Man and stuff. If they play Worried About You, they can play anything and it'll be fine.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: November 4, 2021 01:19

Quote
RollingFreak
Dylan mixes it up arguably too much, although it keeps it from being stale.

The Stones could afford to mix it up more than they do. I don't buy and never have the "a stadium can't handle certain things". The last time I saw them they played She's A Rainbow and Sweet Virginia. Not exactly radio hits but they go over fine. Its a stadium, people have short term memories. As long as they get Jumpin Jack Flash and Satisfaction, they'll go home happy. Thats oversimplifying but really not by much. In a 20 song setlist, they can absolutely afford to throw in 5 rarities/non radio hits. Without question. 2 true deep cuts and a rotation of other tracks they don't often play. Not like All Down The Line and Monkey Man and stuff. If they play Worried About You, they can play anything and it'll be fine.

The size of the venue isn't the 'problem'. The type of audience is. The 'if you play a stadium you have to play your greatest hits' argument doesnt hold water, as there are several artists who dont do that (Springsteen for example - plenty of warhorses yes, but a larger % of the show would be new songs, deep cuts, rarities etc)

Look at the average setlist for a Stones stadium tour in the 80s and 90's. Its not a greatest hits show by any stretch of the imagination. A few new songs every night, plenty of deep cuts or songs that hadnt been played on recent tours plus of course the smattering of hits, especially in the last third. People didnt walk away - they came back. There were also quite a few songs now described as 'warhorses' which didnt get played every night back then either.

Its a different demographic now. An older audience who may not for the most part be that interested in the band's catalogue beyond a greatest hits record and have paid a serious amount of money to effectively see a living jukebox. The 'hits and as little else as possible but the hits' is how the band seemingly see what that target audience wants and the show (and a mighty good one it still is) is aimed towards them. There are still people who are not clued in to Dylan to the extent that they will turn up to a show expecting a greatest hits set sounding like the records. The difference is that he has no interest in pandering to that.

The Stones also play about 4-6 songs less per show now than they did back in the era when they were touring behind a new record. When a setlist gets shortened by that much, its not going to be the warhorses that get kicked into touch it'll be the deeper cuts. If you want to hear the likes of 'No Expectations' in a stadium (and its been done), these days you're going to have to hope for it appearing as a fanvote choice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-04 01:21 by Gazza.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 4, 2021 18:55

@Gazza :
the older they get, the safer Mick wants to play it. Period.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: November 4, 2021 19:01

I really don't think it has anything to do with the audience getting older or Mick wanting to play it safer lol. They're just kinda lazy, which is fine, they're a million years old. But I don't think there's anything else to it. I guess you could safe lazy is similar or the same as "safe", but I'd say safe means they are afraid to branch out. I don't think thy are afraid, I just don't think they want to. Again, not even really a criticism at their age, but just noting its funny how everyone always tries to put a reason on it. I think its as simple as they don't have to. They didn't on the Steel Wheels tour either, but they obviously cared to put in more effort then.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: November 4, 2021 20:16

I don't think it's entirely accurate to blame the dominance of warhorses on the "older" audience. While people of a certain age certainly feel a tug of nostalgia, they can also recall a time when FM radio had larger (or even unrestricted) playlists. They know the more obscure songs better than the younger audience members who became fans in the last 30 years when rock radio kept on shrinking their playlists, making the songs presented by classic artists smaller and smaller.

You would think that a younger audience would be adventurous and open-minded. But I think that there is an expectation of wanting the artist to play signature songs. When I myself finally got around to seeing Ray Charles live, I wanted to hear "Hit The Road, Jack" while he felt like playing Leon Russell's "A Song For You." Had my ticket for that cost as much as the Stones are charging these days, maybe I'd be more vocal about it.


When I saw Dylan a few years ago, I was talking to a kid before the show and he said his favorite Dylan song was "All Along The Watchtower" and he hoped Bob would play it. He didn't. But it was one of the best shows I've ever been to.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: November 4, 2021 20:43

I really admire Bob for not following the status quo. Not many older acts stray from playing the hits as we know. I suspect this will continue until the end of the old bands. Maybe they just want to party, have a good time and see people being happy. There's no shame to that, but yeah I really would like to hear some deep cuts and newer stuff too. Anyhow, it's not the end of the world because of setlist, lol. Plus we have lots of recordings off all this stuff. Should hold us over until the big sleep comes.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: January 21, 2022 22:12

seems like Dylan is planning a US sping tour: Today a concert date appeared on BobDylan.com but was later removed (San Antonio/Texas March 13, 2022). It is believed that this was pre-mature annoucement but there's obviously something in the pipe, see [expectingrain.com]

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: January 24, 2022 10:16

new tour dates: Southern US tour staring in early March:
[www.bobdylan.com]

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: January 24, 2022 10:27

I liked 'Rough and Rowdy Ways'. I think it's his best album overall in quite a while. He's also constantly emptying the vault with interesting material. I haven't seen him in four or five years. It was hard to take his voice last time.

It's kind of sad the Stones stopped being artists over 30 years ago. And they haven't been exciting live for 23 years. They want to make people happy, and get paid a king's ransom, with as little effort as necessary.

Bob made enough money to be satisfied, and to be an artist. I guess there's never enough money for the Stones. I feel we're lucky we got Blue and Lonesome, the last flare from the lighthouse.

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: January 24, 2022 11:01

Quote
24FPS
I liked 'Rough and Rowdy Ways'. I think it's his best album overall in quite a while. He's also constantly emptying the vault with interesting material. I haven't seen him in four or five years. It was hard to take his voice last time.

It's kind of sad the Stones stopped being artists over 30 years ago. And they haven't been exciting live for 23 years. They want to make people happy, and get paid a king's ransom, with as little effort as necessary.

Bob made enough money to be satisfied, and to be an artist. I guess there's never enough money for the Stones. I feel we're lucky we got Blue and Lonesome, the last flare from the lighthouse.

well, I saw Dylan last fall in New York and Port Chester. It's really worthwhile seeing him. The show is completely different compared to the years before. Half or the setlists were songs from the new album!

Re: OT: Bob Dylan news and more
Posted by: Bjorn ()
Date: January 24, 2022 11:45

He´s the real deal. Like Neil Young and Springsteen. Still alive and kicking - new music and different set lists whenever they want to. And people love it! Respect! smiling smiley

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