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Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 6, 2014 23:42





ROCKMAN

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: May 6, 2014 23:48

A welcome back from rockeee and Aberdeen just won as well! grinning smileydrinking smiley


smileys with beer

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 6, 2014 23:50

Go Phil ... good ta see ya lurking around the joint again .... Keep laughin' won't ya



ROCKMAN

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: May 7, 2014 13:10

Quote
Wild Slivovitz
Some people I know attended shows both in 1973 and in 1976, and they all report that the 1973 concerts were so much better.

What's the take of this board's members who also attended shows in both tours?

Personally I wasn't even born in 1976, so I'm interested in the comparison by people who were actually there.

Yes, I was at both. (As I think was Silver Dagger).
Will reply more fully later.

But in the meantime (not relying on my or Dagger's recall), for those with eyes and ears (which I presume includes Dandylion Powder person and Mathijs) -


look at this '73 footage again.

KEITH is leading the band start to finish - he is moving great, in control, playing fantastic. He's having a ball. Bill and Charlie are thus fired up to keep pace - as is Mick. Mick Taylor is along for a very good ride and making his contribution in the best way he can.

But it is not a Jagger or taylor driven show - and Mr Preston is thankfully in the background somewhere, keeping a low profile.

So, DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ about a zonked-out Keith not keeping it together in 73. Believe your eyes and ears.

Oh, and if anyone has a '73 Heartbreaker to post - the middle break was simply phenominal spontaneous fun - reliant on Keith's fully dextrous repetitive LEAD lick and Taylor's gorgeous effect-treated RHYTHM lurching. I'm pretty sure it's that way around!. (On Brussels?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-07 13:15 by Deluxtone.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 7, 2014 13:24

I never said "not keeping it together". I said he was playing it safe, and that he played less, and was less adventurous than he was later on.

If you disagree with that, or think I'm wrong - please tell me the musical grounds for it, other than wanting to be right.

These are two of Keith's best performances on lead guitar from 1973 and 1976:








Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: May 7, 2014 13:38

Quote
Wild Slivovitz
Some people I know attended shows both in 1973 and in 1976, and they all report that the 1973 concerts were so much better.

What's the take of this board's members who also attended shows in both tours?

I saw the Stones both in '73 and '76. I liked '73 better for a simple reason: I basically went to see my (then) guitar hero who added magic to this great R&R band I've never heard again afterwards.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 7, 2014 13:53

Was Taylor your guitar hero as early as in 1973, or did that evolve with time?

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: May 7, 2014 16:40

Quote
Deluxtone
Quote
Wild Slivovitz

Oh, and if anyone has a '73 Heartbreaker to post - the middle break was simply phenominal spontaneous fun - reliant on Keith's fully dextrous repetitive LEAD lick and Taylor's gorgeous effect-treated RHYTHM lurching. I'm pretty sure it's that way around!. (On Brussels?)



Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: mudbone ()
Date: May 7, 2014 17:33

Quote
His Majesty
1973 live stones has become a bit of a naughty indulgence for me. Guess i'm a bit overdosed on Jones era. eye popping smiley

The stones, like in 1967, once again stretched itself out in to the cosmos, this time though they kept one foot on planet earth hence the moments of melancholy.

What is this music? It's the sonic manifestation of the human spirit... yesterday, today and tomorrow, inner and outer searching all rolled in to one.

Watcha! hot smiley

wow, well put! about sums up the stones for me

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: May 7, 2014 17:58

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Was Taylor your guitar hero as early as in 1973, or did that evolve with time?

He was my guitar hero when my elder brother came home with Yayas!! I think '71.
It evolved and I still love his work he did with the Stones and Dylan, and lot's of his own stuff. But over the years other players made me even more curious.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: May 7, 2014 18:14

The introduction sounds almost the same as the San Diego 69

It looks like a super 8 camera is used to me, don't know if you could record the sound as well in those days so maybe they used another recorder?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-07 18:31 by runaway.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: May 7, 2014 19:21

for me 73 has to be the stones at the top of the summit

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 7, 2014 20:08

"I shine when the band shines" - Keith Richards

That's what 1973 is all about. As a guitarist per se he might have more personally spectacular, richer, adventurous tours in his belt, but as ar as that philosophy goes, as a band leader who just sticks into the essentials, being the dynamo of the band, driving it into greatness, he has never been better. Not any rock and roll guitarist ever have been. I mean, has any band ever shined better?

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-07 20:09 by Doxa.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 7, 2014 21:10

Quote
LuxuryStones
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Was Taylor your guitar hero as early as in 1973, or did that evolve with time?

He was my guitar hero when my elder brother came home with Yayas!! I think '71.
It evolved and I still love his work he did with the Stones and Dylan, and lot's of his own stuff. But over the years other players made me even more curious.

thumbs up

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 7, 2014 21:12

Quote
Doxa
"I shine when the band shines" - Keith Richards

That's what 1973 is all about. As a guitarist per se he might have more personally spectacular, richer, adventurous tours in his belt, but as ar as that philosophy goes, as a band leader who just sticks into the essentials, being the dynamo of the band, driving it into greatness, he has never been better. Not any rock and roll guitarist ever have been. I mean, has any band ever shined better?

- Doxa

Perhaps in 1969, when he wasn't as lazy?

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 7, 2014 21:49

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Doxa
"I shine when the band shines" - Keith Richards

That's what 1973 is all about. As a guitarist per se he might have more personally spectacular, richer, adventurous tours in his belt, but as ar as that philosophy goes, as a band leader who just sticks into the essentials, being the dynamo of the band, driving it into greatness, he has never been better. Not any rock and roll guitarist ever have been. I mean, has any band ever shined better?

- Doxa

Perhaps in 1969, when he wasn't as lazy?

Lazy???!!! Totally inappropriate word to call anything one can hear and see, for example, in that Wembley footage. That's baddassest riff/rhythm guitar work the world ever has seen. When Keith decided stick into that department, he made a world record in there not to be broken forever.

- Doxa

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 7, 2014 21:53

I can't hear that, but obviously most of you can...

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: pepganzo ()
Date: May 7, 2014 22:03

with taylor the rolling stones weas another band; but I think that the 1973 tour was not the best of taylor era.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: pepganzo ()
Date: May 7, 2014 22:03

with taylor the rolling stones was another band; but I think that the 1973 tour was not the best of taylor era.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 7, 2014 22:27

Well, it's hard for me to understand why you, Dandie, can't hear that...

Is that sticking "just" to rhythm and riffs is lazy? One needs to play more variantly?

The way I see the 1973 is that by then the Stones guitarists had naturally evolved to the point in which both of them do what suits them best. A natural division of labor, when you have one of the world's best lead guitarists and probably the best rhythm guitarist. And both of them played their hearts out in their own departments.

I also think that they took that development then into that point that it was about impossible to go any further. But that's what I love in that 1973 tour - it is such extremist statement. It was also natural that when Taylor left, the dynamics in guitar department changed, since Keith and Woody weren't so much different guitarists by nature and in their excellence as Richards and Taylor were. The change, sure, took some time.

- Doxa

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 7, 2014 22:46

I think the balance they had in 69 made the band benefit more - from both, but that's me smiling smiley

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: May 7, 2014 22:57

I can live with that..winking smiley

- Doxa

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: May 7, 2014 23:46

Dear Dandelion,

I could write reams - but Doxa has put it very simply. Lazy simply doesn't come into these '73 Keith performances. He is dynamic, firing from the hip and he has prowess and presence.

I liked some of his lead work in '75-76 - but it was then that he was becoming 'lazy'. Just take HTW from Love You Live by comparison with that '73 footage. And what's intersting btw about the '73 HTW is that they start of as two rhythm guitars in equal sync. (wish they'd kept it going longer infact) until Richards breaks into his main rhythm 'role' and Taylor assumes the lead one. That wasn't being lazy - Keith was being proactive and taking the song and running with it. Ditto SFM.

Adventurous is not necessarily good. Prog rock was adventurous. I'm actually interested to know your examples of Keith being adventurous live since '73. (I'm not saying he isn't - but you are claiming he is and requiring me to refute this).

I think he's done some adventurous stuff since Exile. Notably on Dirty Work and to some extent on SW. New nuances, sounds and texures. But not many rate nis work on those albums. He wasn't really adventurous on much since Black and Blue.

satrt Me Up isn't exactly adventurous - or Love Is Strong. They are conservative - playing it safe.

His prime adventurous period was from, say, 67 (Satanic Sessions) through to '71.

The most adventurous change live happened in '69.
You might even argue that '73 was adventurous for his playing mainly rhythm - NOT because he was 'lazy' but because it's where he excelled and he was able to pull/push, propel, the band to a height and level that it hasn't reached since.

That is what I could argue. Not through a wish to be 'right'.

I was there in '73 (and '76). I had eyes, ears and a very clear memory.
I have a very clear memory of a Keith in command and just a supreme Stones show.

(Taylor's contributions were strongly memrable - pure lyricism - but it's their Keith and band context of the time that was crucial. Gimme Shelter for Greatness' sake).

Oh - I appear to hav written a reamlet.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: May 7, 2014 23:46

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I can't hear that, but obviously most of you can...

I certainly can. They are playing off each other like crazy in 1973. The intensity is fantastic. I just don't see how Keith was more adventurous in '75, DP. Sorry.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: Deluxtone ()
Date: May 8, 2014 00:35

I see that there's already been a discussion about Keith's 'state' from '73 to '77 on the RW solo thread. It's his 'use' that made him lazy - and by his own admission too.
Another thread for this discussion perhaps - but he wasn't really innovating or writing from '72 onwards was he? (in his Exile prime). There's Angie ofcourse. Coming Downa Again. Sure The One You Need - his main rocker. Act Together is 'nice. But really he was contributing to other peoples's projects - Ronnie's, John Phillips'. I'm not sure how much of IOOR his 'his'. More so on B&B. Anyway ..... back to '73 ....

We are forgetting the Australian shows and concentrating on Wembley here.
There is ofcourse a 72-73 thread running and it's hard to keep track of everything!

But regarding the London '73 Shows. Did Keith clean up in special preparation for them?

From a UK perspective Brown Sugar and the '71 tour in the spring was the last real Stones presence for over two years. A LOT happenned in their absence. A LOT of new and younger bands.

Bolan. Slade . Bowie. Nazareth. Not to mention the lesser but very lively and 'on the scene' glam bands. Slade WERE big. Rhythm and lead appraoch btw as was the 'rage' in those days. R Stewart & Faces, from nowhere in '71 to broad appeal, currency and great respect amongst peers in '73. This the scene to which the Stones returned 'from Exile' to finish off GHS in the early summer. Jagger had some catching up to do! He mixed with Bowie and Wood. He cut his hair. He 'read' the signs of the times'. He glammed up. Their single in August was HUGE - taking them back to the top in pop consciousness. To regain their crown and top all the new acts in town their home Town shows had to be good. They were fired up for it - they had to deliver. They had the appetite - a new album tp promote, (which was very 'on-song' for '73), and they had a fire and focus. It just all came right for them in that early September.
And as you can see and hear, Keith just ripped it up from start to finish.

With due regard to Mathijs the Great - I should add Focus to that list of very popular bands in UK in '73 - and the band that did Radar Love - name escapes me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-08 00:40 by Deluxtone.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 8, 2014 00:44

Deluxe:

Try

You Gotta Move
Fingerprint File
Around And Around
SFTD
IORR
MR
Star Star
Fool To Cry
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
HTW
Crackin' Up
Hot Stuff

for more interesting playing, and a leading role compared to 1973.

Maybe he was lazy at the show you attended in 76, but obviously you haven't listened to many boots from that tour?

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: May 8, 2014 01:33

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Deluxe:

Try

You Gotta Move
Fingerprint File
Around And Around
SFTD
IORR
MR
Star Star
Fool To Cry
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
HTW
Crackin' Up
Hot Stuff

for more interesting playing, and a leading role compared to 1973.

Maybe he was lazy at the show you attended in 76, but obviously you haven't listened to many boots from that tour?

Half or more of these are either unimpressive or inferior performances compared to the same song done earlier. HTW is ten times less interesting than '73, '72 OR '69. Didn't keith literally say he fell asleep during Fool To Cry. I can't say I blame him. What a stinker. A depressing era for me with the exception of Side 3 of LYL which crackles with energy.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: slew ()
Date: May 8, 2014 06:31

I have to agree with the majority here. Keith was on fire during the 1973 shows. he was ripping it up so well that I feel his rythym playing took Taylor to new heights. I will say that I do like the 1969 tour the best. They had a sound that just has not been duplicated since. I do think that Brussels MR is the greatest live rock song ever recorded though. Sheer brilliance. I have also been trying to re-evaluate the 75-76 tour. I absolutely love You Gotta Move from Paris. Keith puts so much raw emotion into that song and Jagger is okay on that one. I still find Jagger's vocals from 75-76 to be extremely annoying. He is okay on some songs like You gotta Move and Star Star but JJF and BS he just for lack of a better term sucked. hell he sounds better now in my opinion even though his voice has thinned and gotten nasally. If Keith was not at peak in 1973 then it was 1969.

I also feel he has done some very underated work later in his career. talk Is Cheap was excellent. I love the acoustic playing on Almost Hear You Sigh. I don'tknow why everyone dismisses latter day Stones they really are not that bad. They just have a lot to live up to.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: May 8, 2014 11:47

Quote
Deluxtone
...- and the band that did Radar Love - name escapes me.

Golden Earring they were.

Re: Wembley 1973 footage
Date: May 8, 2014 11:54

Quote
71Tele
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Deluxe:

Try

You Gotta Move
Fingerprint File
Around And Around
SFTD
IORR
MR
Star Star
Fool To Cry
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
HTW
Crackin' Up
Hot Stuff

for more interesting playing, and a leading role compared to 1973.

Maybe he was lazy at the show you attended in 76, but obviously you haven't listened to many boots from that tour?

Half or more of these are either unimpressive or inferior performances compared to the same song done earlier. HTW is ten times less interesting than '73, '72 OR '69. Didn't keith literally say he fell asleep during Fool To Cry. I can't say I blame him. What a stinker. A depressing era for me with the exception of Side 3 of LYL which crackles with energy.

To me it sounds like you just made up your mind for the sake of it, regarding HTW. IMO, even a beginner can spot more interesting stuff from Keith on that one.

Keith's wah-wah playing on FTC and FF is awesome, imo, and it really makes the songs fly. So what if he nodded off ONCE during FTC?

Is Happy a stinker because something similar happened with that tune once?

You choose to ignore the best version ever of IORR, the blues in YGM, the funk of ATPTB as well as the interplay on Crackin' Up - something not to be found on the 1973, with the exception of MR.

I can understand that many don't get Mick's "character" on stage in 75/76, but not that the band hadn't improved. To me, that's unfathomable!

But it is obvious that you think the Stones's sound is best when Keith is limited to playing chords, so Taylor can shine. That's ok...







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-08 11:57 by DandelionPowderman.

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