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Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: January 20, 2014 15:52

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Is this song meant to get the adrenaline pumping? If so, it fails, at least for me. Or is it meant to be a downer? If so, it succeeds.>

It's both, I'd say.

The verses and the bridge are kinda melancholic. The choruses are upbeat.

Heroin mixed with cocaine...

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:01

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Ive always wondered what the point of the Taylor solo at the end of the song..while the sound is being lowered and at the very end..
I wonder how long the song continued on and if it ended with one long jam..
be nice to hear.

I'm pretty sure he played along all the way, but that they decided to have two rhythm guitars instead, until the ending..

but why introduce the little trill so late..just seems pointless and doesnt add much to the song.

Many think it does, myself included. After the high-octane horn fest, it was a nice melodic change in the outro of the song, imo.

Too little and too late.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:09

Quote
drewmaster
and when Jagger comes in he sounds beaten down and depressed. To be sure, that dispirited Jagger voice works brilliantly in the context of their finest ballads (for example, the vastly superior Moonlight Mile, which has similar lyrical themes to Rocks Off), but his torpor here deflates the experience of Rocks Off, as opposed to elevating it.

For me, Jagger's "torpor" is perhaps the best part of the song. I agree that he sounds a bit like he did on slower songs at the time, but it sounds great here. Dazed and subdued for sure.

On live versions he's more loud and high-pitched which takes away some of the atmosphere.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:13

Quote
LieB
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Is this song meant to get the adrenaline pumping? If so, it fails, at least for me. Or is it meant to be a downer? If so, it succeeds.>

It's both, I'd say.

The verses and the bridge are kinda melancholic. The choruses are upbeat.

Heroin mixed with cocaine...

Two trains running, as Lowell George used to say.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 16:27

<Heroin mixed with cocaine>

Those twins glimmer like a speedball...

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:39

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Heroin mixed with cocaine>

Those twins glimmer like a speedball...

Sounds like a line from a song by Deep Purple! >grinning smiley<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-20 16:40 by Silver Dagger.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:42

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
RobberBride
Quote
DandelionPowderman

He probably didn't. Wasn't his track audible on the Nicky Hopkins-mixes, btw?

Yeah you hear more of his sliding doublestops (or whatever its called)earlier in the track, but not more of the solo at the end.

That's what I thought, thanks! So, Taylor's track is probably the third guitar track (after Keith recorded his two tracks) they recorded, to spice up the song. They used the best piece, if memory serves.

On the Hopkins outtake there's three guitars: the two Richards rhythm guitar left and right, and Taylor's ryhtm guitar just off the right of the spectrum. Taylor plays throughout the song, mainly jazzy chords on the A and B chords, and some slide runs here and there. In my opinion, it just really clutters up the song. They decided, rightfully so in my opinion, to make Hopkins' piano the melodic central point of the track. Thus, two steady driving guitars and one melodic piano doing all the fills and runs. Taylor's guitar just messes up the tightness of the track. The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 16:45

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
RobberBride
Quote
DandelionPowderman

He probably didn't. Wasn't his track audible on the Nicky Hopkins-mixes, btw?

Yeah you hear more of his sliding doublestops (or whatever its called)earlier in the track, but not more of the solo at the end.

That's what I thought, thanks! So, Taylor's track is probably the third guitar track (after Keith recorded his two tracks) they recorded, to spice up the song. They used the best piece, if memory serves.

On the Hopkins outtake there's three guitars: the two Richards rhythm guitar left and right, and Taylor's ryhtm guitar just off the right of the spectrum. Taylor plays throughout the song, mainly jazzy chords on the A and B chords, and some slide runs here and there. In my opinion, it just really clutters up the song. They decided, rightfully so in my opinion, to make Hopkins' piano the melodic central point of the track. Thus, two steady driving guitars and one melodic piano doing all the fills and runs. Taylor's guitar just messes up the tightness of the track. The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

+1

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:47

Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:54

Quote
dcba
Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Really? Im surprised some of u guys think it makes the song..
Sure its a nice addition at the end but there are other features which makes RO what it is IMO.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: January 20, 2014 16:56

Quote
dcba
Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Yeah, and Page would even have used a double-necked Gibson...faded out guitars has been Stones speciality since 'It's all over now' and 'Tell Me'....Brilliant as said! thumbs up

2 1 2 0

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 17:03

Quote
kleermaker
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Ive always wondered what the point of the Taylor solo at the end of the song..while the sound is being lowered and at the very end..
I wonder how long the song continued on and if it ended with one long jam..
be nice to hear.

I'm pretty sure he played along all the way, but that they decided to have two rhythm guitars instead, until the ending..

but why introduce the little trill so late..just seems pointless and doesnt add much to the song.

Many think it does, myself included. After the high-octane horn fest, it was a nice melodic change in the outro of the song, imo.

Too little and too late.

Sometimes, kleerie, less is better smiling smiley

Seriously, in a soundscape like on Rocks Off, it's hard to cut through.

They could have done a "guitar version", and dropped the horns, of course. I doubt if it would have sounded any better, though.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 17:04

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
dcba
Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Really? Im surprised some of u guys think it makes the song..
Sure its a nice addition at the end but there are other features which makes RO what it is IMO.

It doesn't make the song, but it makes you wanna hear more smiling smiley

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: January 20, 2014 17:04

The "Nicky Hopkins" instrumental version.






"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: January 20, 2014 17:08

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
dcba
Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Really? Im surprised some of u guys think it makes the song..
Sure its a nice addition at the end but there are other features which makes RO what it is IMO.

It doesn't make the song, but it makes you wanna hear more smiling smiley

Now I totally agree with that !

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 17:10

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
dcba
Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Really? Im surprised some of u guys think it makes the song..
Sure its a nice addition at the end but there are other features which makes RO what it is IMO.

It doesn't make the song, but it makes you wanna hear more smiling smiley

Now I totally agree with that !

thumbs up

And sometimes that's even a good thing smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-20 17:10 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: January 20, 2014 17:26

Simply their best non-gimme shelter, non-single ever.

But please, don't ever play it in concert again, you just can't live up to the original.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 20, 2014 17:43

Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Is this song meant to get the adrenaline pumping? If so, it fails, at least for me. Or is it meant to be a downer? If so, it succeeds.>

It's both, I'd say.

The verses and the bridge are kinda melancholic. The choruses are upbeat.

However, the general mood of this song is dark, very dark.

It's your opinion, and that's fine. This song takes me places, and the recording is near perfection for me.

The transition from the bridge to "the sunshine bores..." is a showcase in dynamics, so brilliantly executed, that I suspect it to be art by accident thumbs up

It's dark but not that dark. Not as dark as Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter or Sister Morphine. It was probably written after they stayed up all night partying somewhere in or around Nellcote. They've got up to write a song, the Mediterranean summer sunshine is fierce and they're just coming to terms with the day. Hey, we've all been there.

It's not dark at all - it is really as bright as the clearest Mediterranean sun day is, all the positive party feel going on. The only darkness in it is the consciusness that what makes this party going on, cannot really stand the daylight. So it is really the dictum "sex, drugs and rock and roll" put into music, but all done in a good, positive intention. Totally different what they do in, say, "Midnight Rambler" or "Gimme Shelter" in where the powers of the darkness will haunt the listener. This one gets one just 'get yer ya'yas out', and no need to study the dark pages of human existence.

What you said about "after stayed all up partying" is exactly the feel I get from the song. That sort of feel, when you really had a terrific night, and then in the morning, before not letting the hang-over get over you, you just get a few drinks (or whatever), and you are are going strong again. That, creative early second day 'the hangover turning to happy drunkness again feel', when you don't care a shit about anything any longer, your duties or whatever, and you just let it go - that 's "Rocks Off"! Let us just have fun! But, in the bottom of your mind, you know you shouldn't do this...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-21 08:04 by Doxa.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: January 20, 2014 17:58

Quote
Deltics
The "Nicky Hopkins" instrumental version.




One word: G E N I U S

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:06

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<The riff is almost stupid, comical, ironic>

Can't wait for your description of the HTW-riff, then winking smiley

What I meant was that this riff introdues an album withh something that differs from the Satanic era and the haunting darkness of SFTD, BS (not dark buut dirty and majestic), JJF (thanks Bill grinning smiley ) etc.

The riff is almost in the same catagory as Lennons joke riff on Obladi Oblada, it doesnt sound rehearsed or planned, it sounds like someone starting a song because someone has to start it. The riff is not the song, the song has a riff in the intro but it's not really that significant. It introduces the song but the song is not based around the riff.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Carster ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:11

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
dcba
Exactly!
The thing that "does" it for me is the faded-out MT guitar solo at the very end of the track. I suspect Jagger is the one that turned the knobs to make the solo slip into darkness as the song finishes.

Most of the guys in other bands (J. Page for ex) would have added 16 bars of backing tracks and would have mixed the solo really high, to give the osng an extra edge. Wrong! The extra edge is created byt the "fading out" effect.

Brilliant idea = the Stones are the best! grinning smiley

Really? Im surprised some of u guys think it makes the song..
Sure its a nice addition at the end but there are other features which makes RO what it is IMO.

It doesn't make the song, but it makes you wanna hear more smiling smiley

You should all hear the genuine mono mix, extended outro.

Rocks Off: Three collectible versions (full-time collectors only, I should know)

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:18

Quote
Doxa
Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Is this song meant to get the adrenaline pumping? If so, it fails, at least for me. Or is it meant to be a downer? If so, it succeeds.>

It's both, I'd say.

The verses and the bridge are kinda melancholic. The choruses are upbeat.

However, the general mood of this song is dark, very dark.

It's your opinion, and that's fine. This song takes me places, and the recording is near perfection for me.

The transition from the bridge to "the sunshine bores..." is a showcase in dynamics, so brilliantly executed, that I suspect it to be art by accident thumbs up

It's dark but not that dark. Not as dark as Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter or Sister Morphine. It was probably written after they stayed up all night partying somewhere in or around Nellcote. They've got up to write a song, the Mediterranean summer sunshine is fierce and they're just coming to terms with the day. Hey, we've all been there.

It's not dark at all - it is really as bright as the clearest Mediterranean sun day it is, all the positive party feel going on. The only darkness in it is the consciusness that the what makes this party going on, cannot really the stand the daylight. So it is really the dictum "sex, drugs and rock and roll" put into music, but all done in the a good, positive intention. Totally different what they do in, say, "Midnight Rambler" or "Gimme Shelter" in where the powers of the darkness will haunt the listener. This one gets one just 'get yer ya'yas out', and no need to study the dark pages of human existence.

What you said about "after stayed all up partying" is exactly the feel I get from the song. That sort of feel, when you really had a terrific night, and then in the morning, before not letting the hang-over get over you, you just get a few drinks, and you are are going strong again. That, creative early second day 'the hangover turning to happy drunkness again feel', when you don't care a shit about anything any longer, your duties or whatever, and you just let it go - that 's "Rocks Off"! Let us just have fun! But, in the bottom of your mind, you know you shouldn't do this...

- Doxa

You got it. thumbs upthumbs upthumbs upsmileys with beer

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 20, 2014 18:48

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Ive always wondered what the point of the Taylor solo at the end of the song..while the sound is being lowered and at the very end..
I wonder how long the song continued on and if it ended with one long jam..
be nice to hear.

I'm pretty sure he played along all the way, but that they decided to have two rhythm guitars instead, until the ending..

but why introduce the little trill so late..just seems pointless and doesnt add much to the song.

Many think it does, myself included. After the high-octane horn fest, it was a nice melodic change in the outro of the song, imo.

Too little and too late.

Sometimes, kleerie, less is better smiling smiley

Seriously, in a soundscape like on Rocks Off, it's hard to cut through.

They could have done a "guitar version", and dropped the horns, of course. I doubt if it would have sounded any better, though.

At least they better had Taylor play the 'feel so mesmerized' part, like during the live versions. Now it sounds a bit stiff and not very mesmerizing to my ears.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 18:50

Yeah, maybe. But then he should have had a different sound, perhaps?quote=kleermaker]
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Ive always wondered what the point of the Taylor solo at the end of the song..while the sound is being lowered and at the very end..
I wonder how long the song continued on and if it ended with one long jam..
be nice to hear.

I'm pretty sure he played along all the way, but that they decided to have two rhythm guitars instead, until the ending..

but why introduce the little trill so late..just seems pointless and doesnt add much to the song.

Many think it does, myself included. After the high-octane horn fest, it was a nice melodic change in the outro of the song, imo.

Too little and too late.

Sometimes, kleerie, less is better smiling smiley

Seriously, in a soundscape like on Rocks Off, it's hard to cut through.

They could have done a "guitar version", and dropped the horns, of course. I doubt if it would have sounded any better, though.

At least they better had Taylor play the 'feel so mesmerized' part, like during the live versions. Now it sounds a bit stiff and not very mesmerizing to my ears.
[/quote]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-01-20 19:49 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: January 20, 2014 19:08

Quote
Deltics
The "Nicky Hopkins" instrumental version.



Strange, but apart from the intro I don't like this track that much without Jaggers' vocals. Too straightforward.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 20, 2014 19:44

Quote
LuxuryStones
Quote
Deltics
The "Nicky Hopkins" instrumental version.



Strange, but apart from the intro I don't like this track that much without Jaggers' vocals. Too straightforward.

Agreed.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 19:50

The horns balanced that straightforwardness..

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: January 20, 2014 20:01

Quote
DandelionPowderman

The horns balanced that straightforwardness..

Agreed, and Jagger.

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Date: January 20, 2014 20:02

Absolutely!

Re: Track Talk: Rocks Off
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: January 20, 2014 20:27

Quote
Mathijs
On the Hopkins outtake there's three guitars: the two Richards rhythm guitar left and right, and Taylor's ryhtm guitar just off the right of the spectrum. Taylor plays throughout the song, mainly jazzy chords on the A and B chords, and some slide runs here and there. In my opinion, it just really clutters up the song. They decided, rightfully so in my opinion, to make Hopkins' piano the melodic central point of the track. Thus, two steady driving guitars and one melodic piano doing all the fills and runs. Taylor's guitar just messes up the tightness of the track. The little solo run at the end was kept, which works fantastically: just when you think the track is finished Taylor draws all the attention, making you want the track to continue, making you long for more. Just as with Sway, the fact that the solo ends makes it much more interesting than a long solo.

Mathijs

I agree. I get frustrated because I wanna hear more of the solo, but I still think the fadeout makes for a great ending.

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