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DandelionPowderman

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seitan
I like albums that sound dirty, raw, huge and powerful and gutsy.. I always feel that real rock n roll should have loud and dirty electric guitars in your face, - So I guess Undercover is the worst thing they ever did, it's so lame... everything on Undercover sounds clean, tiny and thin..like Mickey Mouse singin in a dentist office or something.

If I had to choose one song it would be Dance Little Sister from Only Rock N Roll album.

There you go: Stones dont sound better than this:

The mix on DLS is dry and hilariously bad, imo - still I wouldn't change it for the world

What's wrong with the mix/sound on Tie You Up and Pretty Beat Up?

Pretty Beat Up has a thin eighties snare drum sound - you cant really hear the bass drum at all, not enough bass - - Mick's vocal performance is great - we all know that he's a good singer, but the vocals are soaked in dreadful eighties reverb echo. Songs sound clean, sterile and over produced and polished. - not enough dirt. Dance Little Sister might sound dry - and it's better that way, cause it's the real sound of the band, it's more dry and natural and you can hear the real character of the Rolling Stones. the personality of the band comes thru, when it's not soaked in cheap pro tools plugins.

Dance Little Sister has a great mix - it's not over mixed at all !! It's natural rock n roll mix, you can hear everything you need, like it really is.

I love the sound of the Rolling Stones, I don't need pro tools editing tools and effects to hide the character and personality of the musicians. This is rock n roll - so the best rock n roll mix is always simple.

I have the same attitude on women, if I wanna see the real personality of a woman, I don't need to photoshop her picture and I dont need to see any fake boobs. Undercover album sounds plastic and fake to me. Undercover is a pretentious record.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-25 19:34 by seitan.

I have the "gold disc" CD version of the single-CD Brussells Affair, and that is pretty ridiculously amazing sounding. The sax solo and interplaying jam part in "Can't Always Get What You Want" is just fantastic....

I rate "Can't You Hear Me Knockin'" off Sticky Fingers as a best-sounding candidate, studio-wise. It has so much clarity to it.

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Markdog
This confirms what I've always thought, dispite recording advancements and technology in the last 40 years they still can't make a song sound better than they could in the early 70's.

agreed. IMO the 70's was the peak of how good a rock record could sound. in the 80's it got over produced and since then its gotten muddier sounding somehow. not that I don't listen to stuff after then, just sayin...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-25 19:55 by ryanpow.

Now, this is the Rolling Stones, the way they were meant to be heard...





and

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JerkyLittleGIJoe
Tumbling Dice. Great production only because they really worked on it painstakingly for weeks

!! vocal placement was groundbreaking... perfecting classic rock.

citadel sounds amazing.

cool calm and collected is great to.

a few others would be

we love you
let it loose
time waits for no one
little t and a
slave
no use in crying

to much more to mention or i would be here all night.

Something happens with the sound on TD toward the ending. Is it an out of tune guitar? It's fun when Jimmys drums kick in. Fantastic track!

Also, Keith's little solos on TD are turned way, which is nice. And the bass line by Mick Taylor is almost like a lead solo in itself. Very unusal song.

Who's Driving Your Plane is awesome - sounds great !! That's real kick ass rock n roll, nothing slick, clean or sterile or phony about that track - just pure mean spirited nitro burning dirty blues and roll !!

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DandelionPowderman
Something happens with the sound on TD toward the ending. Is it an out of tune guitar? It's fun when Jimmys drums kick in. Fantastic track!

Never noticed this nuance. Digital mastering reveals many "flaws" the engineers at the time thought were passable for vinyl mastering. On Exile I can hear obvious generation loss due to track comping and blatant edits that I never heard previously. The latest Exile re-master is most guilty of this, digital mastering should reflect the original sound not enhance or restructure unless there are some major flaws. That's why I prefer Greg Calbi's early EXILE re-master from the archived safety masters despite the drop out in "SBA". There are many great sounding Stones records, from top to bottom "Sticky Fingers" has the most impressive mixes but tomorrow I'll pick "Let it Bleed"...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-25 21:33 by DoomandGloom.

Sweet Virginia sounds great. Esp. once the sax kicks in, and all of the vocal tracks. A really full sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-25 22:12 by ryanpow.

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seitan
Who's Driving Your Plane is awesome - sounds great !! That's real kick ass rock n roll, nothing slick, clean or sterile or phony about that track - just pure mean spirited nitro burning dirty blues and roll !!

The sound on Who's driving your plain reminds me of how Dylan's albums were produced around that time, Hwy 61 and Blonde on Blonde.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-25 22:23 by ryanpow.

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seitan

Quote
DandelionPowderman

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seitan
I like albums that sound dirty, raw, huge and powerful and gutsy.. I always feel that real rock n roll should have loud and dirty electric guitars in your face, - So I guess Undercover is the worst thing they ever did, it's so lame... everything on Undercover sounds clean, tiny and thin..like Mickey Mouse singin in a dentist office or something.

If I had to choose one song it would be Dance Little Sister from Only Rock N Roll album.

There you go: Stones dont sound better than this:

The mix on DLS is dry and hilariously bad, imo - still I wouldn't change it for the world

What's wrong with the mix/sound on Tie You Up and Pretty Beat Up?

Pretty Beat Up has a thin eighties snare drum sound - you cant really hear the bass drum at all, not enough bass - - Mick's vocal performance is great - we all know that he's a good singer, but the vocals are soaked in dreadful eighties reverb echo. Songs sound clean, sterile and over produced and polished. - not enough dirt. Dance Little Sister might sound dry - and it's better that way, cause it's the real sound of the band, it's more dry and natural and you can hear the real character of the Rolling Stones. the personality of the band comes thru, when it's not soaked in cheap pro tools plugins.

Dance Little Sister has a great mix - it's not over mixed at all !! It's natural rock n roll mix, you can hear everything you need, like it really is.

I love the sound of the Rolling Stones, I don't need pro tools editing tools and effects to hide the character and personality of the musicians. This is rock n roll - so the best rock n roll mix is always simple.

I have the same attitude on women, if I wanna see the real personality of a woman, I don't need to photoshop her picture and I dont need to see any fake boobs. Undercover album sounds plastic and fake to me. Undercover is a pretentious record.

Your PBU is different than mine. I don't hear any tinny clean sound at all. On the contrary, it's muddy in a good way and full of bass. Not to mention the energy!

The IORR album is poorly mixed, and DLS is no exception, imo.

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DoomandGloom

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DandelionPowderman
Something happens with the sound on TD toward the ending. Is it an out of tune guitar? It's fun when Jimmys drums kick in. Fantastic track!

Never noticed this nuance. Digital mastering reveals many "flaws" the engineers at the time thought were passable for vinyl mastering. On Exile I can hear obvious generation loss due to track comping and blatant edits that I never heard previously. The latest Exile re-master is most guilty of this, digital mastering should reflect the original sound not enhance or restructure unless there are some major flaws. That's why I prefer Greg Calbi's early EXILE re-master from the archived safety masters despite the drop out in "SBA". There are many great sounding Stones records, from top to bottom "Sticky Fingers" has the most impressive mixes but tomorrow I'll pick "Let it Bleed"...

I first noticed it the other day, after listening to the original single for the first time - I just bought it.

I like it unpolished, dirty and raw.
Hate it when it's too perfect.
Don't want it to sound soft or kind.
I want to hear the sound of sexy arrogance and attitude,
want it to be 'mad, bad and dangerous.'
Rock&Roll, in other words.

Examples:

I Wanna Be Your Man
I Just Want To Make Love To You
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Stray Cat Blues
Bitch
Rip This Joint

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The Worst.
I like it unpolished, dirty and raw.
Hate it when it's too perfect.
Don't want it to sound soft or kind.
I want to hear the sound of sexy arrogance and attitude,
want it to be 'mad, bad and dangerous.'
Rock&Roll, in other words.

Examples:

I Wanna Be Your Man
I Just Want To Make Love To You
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Stray Cat Blues
Bitch
Rip This Joint

I agree !! - Great examples !! Love 'em for all the same reasons.

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DandelionPowderman
Some of the Chess recordings from the 60s also sound remarkably good:

Confessing The Blues
It's All Over Now
Look What You've Done

And tracks like What A Shame and I Just Can't Be Satisfied also has that same recording cleanness that most of the 60s recordings didn't have, imo.

Yeah, it is exactly those three songs from Chess sessions that I have also noticed having a surpirising sonical clarity and distinctivity compared to the stuff they generally did around the time. Especially I have admired "Confessin' the Blues" for its perfection. I think "I Can't Be Satisfied" goes a bit too clean and thin, but that probably has something to with the performance as well.

It would take not until AFTERMATH sessions they would achieve something similar to the effect. "Under My Thumb" is simply sublime, and so is "Paint It Black".

But that said, the Stones weren't - thank god - always so clear and distinct productionwise, and actually made a trademark of their rougher and dirtier sound, which sometimes was not probably an artistic choice (of their 'pro' producer) but more that of necessity... But the results were outstanding sometimes. I think the first real masterpiece productionwise is "The Last Time". It is archaic like hell, almost coming from a cave or something, but to my ears that one has always sounded eternally fascinating - like listening some Elvis Sun recordings, which defy time, place and technology. I don't know what Andrew were trying to achieve there - a cave man version of Spector's wall sound or what, with echo and all that, but damn that made a beautiful, chaotic, threatening, aggressive over-all sound, and the way that guitar riff sounds and is mixed to the whole is simply alone one of the greatest moments in the history of recorded music. Jagger's vocals - and Keith's background ones - are partly buried to the mix, but this decision interestingly emphasizes their effectivity, especially in the ending when Jagger starts screaming his 'ignorance'.

With "Satisfaction" they continued with this receipt of success, and no way with any lesser results... (unlike in too messy and rough "Get Off Of My Cloud" one single later).

But of those good ole mono days, I would still pick up "The Last Time" as my personal favourite simply for its originality in soundworld. I think the way it sounds is as important statement for independence - especially compared to guess who - as being a Jagger/Richard original. That was Andrew's lucky day...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-26 00:19 by Doxa.

Who's Drivin Your Plane has terrible production in some ways ... listen to that insane reverb on the vocals ... it's a mess, but it's pretty cool nontheless. I agree it sounds a bit like mid-60s Dylan, especially because of the piano, harmonica and nasal stinging guitar.

Btw, is that Stu playing piano on that one?

There are too many good sounding stones track to pick just one

__________________________

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DandelionPowderman
<The only other best-sounding Stones tracks outside of that would be from EMOTIONAL RESCUE and perhaps TATTOO YOU.>

What about the songs on Black And Blue?

They sound good just not as good as the ones I mentioned. I left off Tie You Up, that one has a fantastic sound.

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DandelionPowderman

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seitan

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
seitan
I like albums that sound dirty, raw, huge and powerful and gutsy.. I always feel that real rock n roll should have loud and dirty electric guitars in your face, - So I guess Undercover is the worst thing they ever did, it's so lame... everything on Undercover sounds clean, tiny and thin..like Mickey Mouse singin in a dentist office or something.

If I had to choose one song it would be Dance Little Sister from Only Rock N Roll album.

There you go: Stones dont sound better than this:

The mix on DLS is dry and hilariously bad, imo - still I wouldn't change it for the world

What's wrong with the mix/sound on Tie You Up and Pretty Beat Up?

Pretty Beat Up has a thin eighties snare drum sound - you cant really hear the bass drum at all, not enough bass - - Mick's vocal performance is great - we all know that he's a good singer, but the vocals are soaked in dreadful eighties reverb echo. Songs sound clean, sterile and over produced and polished. - not enough dirt. Dance Little Sister might sound dry - and it's better that way, cause it's the real sound of the band, it's more dry and natural and you can hear the real character of the Rolling Stones. the personality of the band comes thru, when it's not soaked in cheap pro tools plugins.

Dance Little Sister has a great mix - it's not over mixed at all !! It's natural rock n roll mix, you can hear everything you need, like it really is.

I love the sound of the Rolling Stones, I don't need pro tools editing tools and effects to hide the character and personality of the musicians. This is rock n roll - so the best rock n roll mix is always simple.

I have the same attitude on women, if I wanna see the real personality of a woman, I don't need to photoshop her picture and I dont need to see any fake boobs. Undercover album sounds plastic and fake to me. Undercover is a pretentious record.

Your PBU is different than mine. I don't hear any tinny clean sound at all. On the contrary, it's muddy in a good way and full of bass. Not to mention the energy!

The IORR album is poorly mixed, and DLS is no exception, imo.

Less they mix things - the more real it is. Less is more.

Since some people point out that they love a song that has a bad production - maybe we should clear one thing up.

Are we talking about a song with clear production ( album where the recording engineers have done a great job at mixing, in creating something "artistic") or a song with a less production ( where recording engineers have kept the natural sound of the band with all it's distortion, dirt and mud - where in some cases they mixed hardly nothing whatsoever) - in both cases fans might love the result, I'm sure.

Surely, everyone can tell that Exile is rather muddy and dense sounding recording, ( some recording engineer's might even complain and admit that the engineers did their job very badly, somethings got lost, somethings are not all that clear, etc ) but I love the album for that very reason, to me it has a great production, it's dirty, muddy recording and far from clear, it sounds really natural to me. It sounds like band playing live in a basement. I know there's overdubs but still it has that live feel to it.

I love the early albums that were recorded live in a room.

In my opinion Stones always sound the best when the production is rather dry, when it really sounds like a rock band playing live in a room. ( for that very reason - I'm not a big fan of Undercover or Dirty Work.)

I like it when producers dont get in the way, when they let musicians be who they really are, less "production" the better it sounds. Every recording where you can hear the mistakes is lot more interesting - Stones are human beings with personality - and I like to hear that. I'm not a big fan of editing, polishing and cleaning the tracks to make them sound perfect. I think real human beings are never perfect and there's more character and personality in music, when you hear the little screw ups.

Less production means more real rock n roll.

60's - Under my thumb , YCAGWYW,Monkey Man , Honky Tonk Woman
70's - If You can't rock Me ,Hand of Fate , Fingerprint File , Miss You
80's Tatto You album
90's - Bridges to Babylon

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DandelionPowderman


I first noticed it the other day, after listening to the original single for the first time - I just bought it.

Is it the same mix? I dont have the single

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DoomandGloom
Digital mastering reveals many "flaws" the engineers at the time thought were passable for vinyl mastering. On Exile I can hear obvious generation loss due to track comping and blatant edits that I never heard previously. The latest Exile re-master is most guilty of this, digital mastering should reflect the original sound not enhance or restructure unless there are some major flaws. That's why I prefer Greg Calbi's early EXILE re-master from the archived safety masters despite the drop out in "SBA".

Oh, please do elaborate (Or drop me a line on this very interesting subject)
Where do you hear these edits, flaws, generation losses, drops and funky splices? *Bringing out my microscope*

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman
<The only other best-sounding Stones tracks outside of that would be from EMOTIONAL RESCUE and perhaps TATTOO YOU.>

What about the songs on Black And Blue?

They sound good just not as good as the ones I mentioned. I left off Tie You Up, that one has a fantastic sound.

The custom Tele and the Boogie was a winning team

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RobberBride

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DandelionPowderman


I first noticed it the other day, after listening to the original single for the first time - I just bought it.

Is it the same mix? I dont have the single

The mix might be a little different - or sounds come across more clearly on a 45, perhaps? I dunno, will check!

This was probably my first listen to TD with headphones in 15 years, though

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seitan

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
seitan

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
seitan
I like albums that sound dirty, raw, huge and powerful and gutsy.. I always feel that real rock n roll should have loud and dirty electric guitars in your face, - So I guess Undercover is the worst thing they ever did, it's so lame... everything on Undercover sounds clean, tiny and thin..like Mickey Mouse singin in a dentist office or something.

If I had to choose one song it would be Dance Little Sister from Only Rock N Roll album.

There you go: Stones dont sound better than this:

The mix on DLS is dry and hilariously bad, imo - still I wouldn't change it for the world

What's wrong with the mix/sound on Tie You Up and Pretty Beat Up?

Pretty Beat Up has a thin eighties snare drum sound - you cant really hear the bass drum at all, not enough bass - - Mick's vocal performance is great - we all know that he's a good singer, but the vocals are soaked in dreadful eighties reverb echo. Songs sound clean, sterile and over produced and polished. - not enough dirt. Dance Little Sister might sound dry - and it's better that way, cause it's the real sound of the band, it's more dry and natural and you can hear the real character of the Rolling Stones. the personality of the band comes thru, when it's not soaked in cheap pro tools plugins.

Dance Little Sister has a great mix - it's not over mixed at all !! It's natural rock n roll mix, you can hear everything you need, like it really is.

I love the sound of the Rolling Stones, I don't need pro tools editing tools and effects to hide the character and personality of the musicians. This is rock n roll - so the best rock n roll mix is always simple.

I have the same attitude on women, if I wanna see the real personality of a woman, I don't need to photoshop her picture and I dont need to see any fake boobs. Undercover album sounds plastic and fake to me. Undercover is a pretentious record.

Your PBU is different than mine. I don't hear any tinny clean sound at all. On the contrary, it's muddy in a good way and full of bass. Not to mention the energy!

The IORR album is poorly mixed, and DLS is no exception, imo.

Less they mix things - the more real it is. Less is more.

Since some people point out that they love a song that has a bad production - maybe we should clear one thing up.

Are we talking about a song with clear production ( album where the recording engineers have done a great job at mixing, in creating something "artistic") or a song with a less production ( where recording engineers have kept the natural sound of the band with all it's distortion, dirt and mud - where in some cases they mixed hardly nothing whatsoever) - in both cases fans might love the result, I'm sure.

Surely, everyone can tell that Exile is rather muddy and dense sounding recording, ( some recording engineer's might even complain and admit that the engineers did their job very badly, somethings got lost, somethings are not all that clear, etc ) but I love the album for that very reason, to me it has a great production, it's dirty, muddy recording and far from clear, it sounds really natural to me. It sounds like band playing live in a basement. I know there's overdubs but still it has that live feel to it.

I love the early albums that were recorded live in a room.

In my opinion Stones always sound the best when the production is rather dry, when it really sounds like a rock band playing live in a room. ( for that very reason - I'm not a big fan of Undercover or Dirty Work.)

I like it when producers dont get in the way, when they let musicians be who they really are, less "production" the better it sounds. Every recording where you can hear the mistakes is lot more interesting - Stones are human beings with personality - and I like to hear that. I'm not a big fan of editing, polishing and cleaning the tracks to make them sound perfect. I think real human beings are never perfect and there's more character and personality in music, when you hear the little screw ups.

Less production means more real rock n roll.

We're just talking about what YOU consider to be a good-sounding track.

If you like it dry and live, that's cool - although I find it baffling that Tie You Up or Pretty Beat Up don't sound like that to you.

My main beef with the IORR tracks is that they sound like they're wrapped in cotton - lifeless. There are two exceptions, though: Fingerprint File and If You Really Want To Be My Friend. They sound excellent, imo.

I think Mick and Keith, being freshmen as producers, are to blame for this.

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DandelionPowderman

I think Mick and Keith, being freshmen as producers, are to blame for this.

That might be true, but isn't it strange that THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES sounds sonically surprisingly fresh and good even still today? It had odd mixes and things like that but I don't find any big problem in them, quite contrary (even though having some other problems is production, such as keeping the artistic focus, etc...). For example, the mentioned "2000 Light Years From Home" sounds fantastic.

First timer's luck? LSD does miracles? And probably, as far IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL goes, even though having followed Miller behind the wheel for years, still couldn't quite continue from where he had left them?

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

I think Mick and Keith, being freshmen as producers, are to blame for this.

That might be true, but isn't it strange that THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES sounds sonically surprisingly fresh and good even still today? It had odd mixes and things like that but I don't find any big problem in them, quite contrary (even though having some other problems is production, such as keeping the artistic focus, etc...). For example, the mentioned "2000 Light Years From Home" sounds fantastic.

First timer's luck? LSD does miracles? And probably, as far IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL goes, even though having followed Miller behind the wheel for years, still couldn't quite continue from where he had left them?

- Doxa

They had Brian Jones back then

I like the sound on my 7'-singel and 'We love you' also...great sounding...In the same way that I also like the sound of elephant feet that creeps across a Savannah ...

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