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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<even though there might be symptoms of that alraedy in the latter album>

Yep, on Winter and Hide Your Love in particular.

But PBU shows no signs of tiredness. On the contrary, it's full of energy, and Mick's vocals is spot on!

What I was referring to was the camp, vain-ish jadedness that came into Mick's vocals. The sniffing, the "new" pronounciation of words and the "I love myself, and I'm never gonna finish this phrase"-endings of his lines

They are cool to a point, but he steps over the line a few times, imo.

I know many people disagree with me here, but there is a difference between the high octan growling and the campy vocals. The growling is prominent on SG, and on PBU, while the campy thing evolved in the glam era (but it's of course evident on Miss You as well).


However, the growling went too far as well, and hit the nadir on She's The Boss as well as on Fight, imo.

Well, I think "Winter" is one of Jagger's strongest vocal performances ever, and actually one of the strongest vocal performances by anyone ever, and I was about to mention "Hide Your Love" as a counter example to "Pretty Beat Up" where he breathes the flow of the music convincingly and naturally, but I guess we have a huge taste difference here. I recall you once said that Jagger sings "Lies" as good as he does "Rip This Joint", which is for me a capital crime to claim...

I get the "campiness" point of the early 70's, but I think Jagger does a marvellous job there, using novel aspects of his natural and unique tone ("Let It Loose", "Angie", Winter", etc.), wheras the stuff he does from, say, PRIMITIVE COOL on, sounds more like vocal coached stuff, hiding losing some chords of his natural voice. I also think the growling/shouting of the early/mid 80's is partly hiding losing the powerfull sharpness and edge he naturally had in his younger age, especially in EXILE rockers (thinking of "Rocks Off", "Rip This Joint", "All Down The Line", "Soul Survivor").

- Doxa

Winter is not even junior league, compared to Angie and Let It Loose, imo.

You really find Mick's singing on Hide Your Love "natural"?

The bridge on CYHTM, however, THAT is great singing from Mick.

And what's wrong with Mick on Lies? You can't get more powerful than that

Oh, dears! These crossing views on Mick Jagger's singing! (For instance,"natural" or "unnatural"!)

With the seldom exception of "Melody", which is, exactly by the use of the voices, turned to the worst moment in Stones' history (shared - by other reasons- with "Tops" ), I regularly think that Mick Jagger not only more often than not, but almost always, by his use of voice and by his socalled mannerisms gives to songs what they need, or how it has been necessary that he might sing to be believed also then. The vocals of "That's How Strong My Love Is", addressed to some of your first grand loves, is not the adequate for another love for the umptheened time in "Love Is Strong". The warm sympathy of the refrains of "Far Away Eyes" is increased to maximum effect instead of overloaded, by the camp way, in which the verses are sung. Mannerisms are also what might express kinds of mixed attitudes in other songs.

("Lies", by the way, is not so "powerful", in my opinion, as it is a good representation of a moment of anger, which one else might have doubted would be a lasting general attitude at that moment in their career, if not released by an occasion. But here, I think, brilliant as such in this song communication with punk and "New wave".)

And with reference to the song that is the subject of the thread, I find it smashingly good in its sought "minimalism" as to melody and with those other attributes that other posters better than me can describe. Other kinds of song ideas probably might have served, too, to the context of the album, but "Pretty Beat Up" fully does as one alternative . If then this a song of the type that is said not to go anywhere, it is in that case a song in which this listener for the moments of it, wishes to be (in some contrast to "Neighbours", which is really a more divided pleasure,) And Mick Jagger's vocal delivery of "Pretty Beat Up"? Well, again to this listener, he sounds with his singing as, yes, that is it, he is pretty beat up. Which means, Mick may have achieved something, won't he.

Late edit: efforts to somewhat correct language for a nightly written post.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-26 18:38 by Witness.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-28 16:22 by camper88.

Not even a good B side really. And Keith's bass is all over the place.

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<even though there might be symptoms of that alraedy in the latter album>

Yep, on Winter and Hide Your Love in particular.

But PBU shows no signs of tiredness. On the contrary, it's full of energy, and Mick's vocals is spot on!

What I was referring to was the camp, vain-ish jadedness that came into Mick's vocals. The sniffing, the "new" pronounciation of words and the "I love myself, and I'm never gonna finish this phrase"-endings of his lines

They are cool to a point, but he steps over the line a few times, imo.

I know many people disagree with me here, but there is a difference between the high octan growling and the campy vocals. The growling is prominent on SG, and on PBU, while the campy thing evolved in the glam era (but it's of course evident on Miss You as well).

However, the growling went too far as well, and hit the nadir on She's The Boss as well as on Fight, imo.

Well, I think "Winter" is one of Jagger's strongest vocal performances ever, and actually one of the strongest vocal performances by anyone ever, and I was about to mention "Hide Your Love" as a counter example to "Pretty Beat Up" where he breathes the flow of the music convincingly and naturally, but I guess we have a huge taste difference here. I recall you once said that Jagger sings "Lies" as good as he does "Rip This Joint", which is for me a capital crime to claim...

I get the "campiness" point of the early 70's, but I think Jagger does a marvellous job there, using novel aspects of his natural and unique tone ("Let It Loose", "Angie", Winter", etc.), wheras the stuff he does from, say, PRIMITIVE COOL on, sounds more like vocal coached stuff, hiding losing some chords of his natural voice. I also think the growling/shouting of the early/mid 80's is partly hiding losing the powerfull sharpness and edge he naturally had in his younger age, especially in EXILE rockers (thinking of "Rocks Off", "Rip This Joint", "All Down The Line", "Soul Survivor").

- Doxa

Winter is not even junior league, compared to Angie and Let It Loose, imo.

You really find Mick's singing on Hide Your Love "natural"?

The bridge on CYHTM, however, THAT is great singing from Mick.

And what's wrong with Mick on Lies? You can't get more powerful than that

I don't equate shouting to powerful singing. Lies is to Some Girls what Neighbours is to Tattoo You.

Sometimes, shouting is needed. What would you do if your friends lied to you...

Micks voice and singin in a studio has always been absolutely brilliant...his singing from live-stages after 1978 is another question...

his singing from live-stages after 1978 is another question...

Please what is the other question ??...



ROCKMAN

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Come On
Micks voice and singin in a studio has always been absolutely brilliant...his singing from live-stages after 1978 is another question...

After he started taking lessons, you mean?

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Rockman
his singing from live-stages after 1978 is another question...

Please what is the other question ??...

The question can be asked whether it is a workout or a concert to view ...

2 1 2 0

....pretty rockin' workout ... but hey yeah everytime I see my
aerobics teacher from now on she's gonna remind me of the Midnight Rambler ....Oh don't do that...oh don't do that



ROCKMAN

From the same sessions - greaaat











Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-26 22:26 by mtaylor.

Its one of the most 80's sounding things they've done and sounds good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-26 22:26 by ryanpow.

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24FPS
Not even a good B side really. And Keith's bass is all over the place.

It's not a b-side ... and the bass is the best part of the song, and which elevates it.

Yeah one of the keepers from UC. Cool loose groove, and good for Ronnie for getting another writing credit! Pretty cool being pretty beat up.

Wow lots of cool insights on this thread.


Fun track. Definitely a deep track. And one I need to really be in the mood for. Sometimes I love it and groove till the end, other times I lose interest once the first verse starts. (The lyrics are so lazy it's painful).
Still, just the sound of Keith & Ron harmonizing on the refrain make me tingle with nostalgia. Probably the last time you heard it like that on a Stones record.

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LeonidP

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24FPS
Not even a good B side really. And Keith's bass is all over the place.

It's not a b-side ... and the bass is the best part of the song, and which elevates it.

+1

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andrewt
Still, just the sound of Keith & Ron harmonizing on the refrain make me tingle with nostalgia. Probably the last time you heard it like that on a Stones record.

True. One charming part of their sound back then, especially live 1978-82. Sad that they get rid of that too when they "professionalized". Maybe for that reason "Pretty Beat Up" reminds me of "Shattered", being like its lost cousin or something (based on strong riff-groove and Jagger's 'crazy' vocals and that mindless repetition of the title by the 'angel choir'). Had they toured then, and continued with 1981/82 concept, "Pretty Beat Up" could have been a hot live number.

- Doxa

It worked really well for Ronnie live, imo.

Yep. But it is painful to think how the 'modern' Rolling Stones would approach it. Lisa and Bernard singing the back vocs, Chuck leading the band and giving clues, Richards trying to remember how the chords go (but ending up throwing two note berry licks), Ronnie turned down, Jones repeating the bass line note for note with not much feeling, Jagger desperatively trying to work out a suitable choreographia for it (and being worried if the audience will get bored)...

But throw it to the 1981/82 band... (well, it was done by that band, and you can hear it).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-27 10:58 by Doxa.

The problem i have with 'Pretty Beat Up', is it just isn't very clearly defined with regards to what it presents, as a song. It is sort of like a jam session with a few random words/phrases thrown in for good measure. Having said that i am sure the Stones did have a pre-conceived notion of what they wanted to achieve, but it just isn't meticulously enough conceived, to achieve a result which can hold its own with the best of what the Stones have to offer. 'Pretty Beat Up' even struggles with many of the Stones lesser songs, certainly from the pre-UNDERCOVER days, but on the UNDERCOVER album, i'd say the song just about breaks even. I still think it has merit, mind, especially in light of what the Stones have released since. The Stones still display that raw element of spontaneity, and Jagger's vocals have yet to get irritating, and especially in the nasally and overaccentuated sense. However, i still don't see the song as anything really more than a throwaway. It's a broad sketch of a song, which desperately needs a few details filling in.

If anything, the Ronnie version does seem just that little more defined. However, to say it's better may actually be stretching things a little.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-27 16:01 by Edward Twining.

I like the outtake too

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
<even though there might be symptoms of that alraedy in the latter album>

Yep, on Winter and Hide Your Love in particular.

But PBU shows no signs of tiredness. On the contrary, it's full of energy, and Mick's vocals is spot on!

What I was referring to was the camp, vain-ish jadedness that came into Mick's vocals. The sniffing, the "new" pronounciation of words and the "I love myself, and I'm never gonna finish this phrase"-endings of his lines

They are cool to a point, but he steps over the line a few times, imo.

I know many people disagree with me here, but there is a difference between the high octan growling and the campy vocals. The growling is prominent on SG, and on PBU, while the campy thing evolved in the glam era (but it's of course evident on Miss You as well).

However, the growling went too far as well, and hit the nadir on She's The Boss as well as on Fight, imo.

Well, I think "Winter" is one of Jagger's strongest vocal performances ever, and actually one of the strongest vocal performances by anyone ever, and I was about to mention "Hide Your Love" as a counter example to "Pretty Beat Up" where he breathes the flow of the music convincingly and naturally, but I guess we have a huge taste difference here. I recall you once said that Jagger sings "Lies" as good as he does "Rip This Joint", which is for me a capital crime to claim...

I get the "campiness" point of the early 70's, but I think Jagger does a marvellous job there, using novel aspects of his natural and unique tone ("Let It Loose", "Angie", Winter", etc.), wheras the stuff he does from, say, PRIMITIVE COOL on, sounds more like vocal coached stuff, hiding losing some chords of his natural voice. I also think the growling/shouting of the early/mid 80's is partly hiding losing the powerfull sharpness and edge he naturally had in his younger age, especially in EXILE rockers (thinking of "Rocks Off", "Rip This Joint", "All Down The Line", "Soul Survivor").

- Doxa

Winter is not even junior league, compared to Angie and Let It Loose, imo.

You really find Mick's singing on Hide Your Love "natural"?

The bridge on CYHTM, however, THAT is great singing from Mick.

And what's wrong with Mick on Lies? You can't get more powerful than that

I don't equate shouting to powerful singing. Lies is to Some Girls what Neighbours is to Tattoo You.

Sometimes, shouting is needed. What would you do if your friends lied to you...

Oh, you can shout alright...I'm just saying that isn't powerful singing, to me anyway.

He he, I got you. I love the shouting myself, Mick hasn't really recovered from it ever since - so in a way it must have been powerful, or something...

I've always liked the tune. Mick's sneering vocal delivery is perfect, especially the way he blurs the words and makes it beyond difficult to understand.

For years I thought the lyrics were 'That you ate a 6 pack and never reached the six packs, the place is a mess!' 'You should see my bus!' Yeah it's suicide in my heart! I'm off for life!'

LOL! ><

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Edward Twining
The problem i have with 'Pretty Beat Up', is it just isn't very clearly defined with regards to what it presents, as a song. It is sort of like a jam session with a few random words/phrases thrown in for good measure. Having said that i am sure the Stones did have a pre-conceived notion of what they wanted to achieve, but it just isn't meticulously enough conceived, to achieve a result which can hold its own with the best of what the Stones have to offer. 'Pretty Beat Up' even struggles with many of the Stones lesser songs, certainly from the pre-UNDERCOVER days, but on the UNDERCOVER album, i'd say the song just about breaks even. I still think it has merit, mind, especially in light of what the Stones have released since. The Stones still display that raw element of spontaneity, and Jagger's vocals have yet to get irritating, and especially in the nasally and overaccentuated sense. However, i still don't see the song as anything really more than a throwaway. It's a broad sketch of a song, which desperately needs a few details filling in.

If anything, the Ronnie version does seem just that little more defined. However, to say it's better may actually be stretching things a little.

Agreed - it's a nice funky jam, if you like funk (I don't) but it just doesn't go anywhere. Not for me.

It goes to a beyond brilliant sax solo, has a great groove and a cool chorus.

Keith's bass playing is phenomenal

If you don't like funk, I can understand

It's not a stylistic issue though, Dandelion. It's more a matter of substance.

Absolutely, Edward.

It is indeed a genre song with substance in my perspective!

You know, I just realized I hadn't put the vinyl version of Undercover on in 30 years! I only ever played it once I think...I believe I just taped it, like I always did with a new album in the day to preserve it.

SO, I'm playing it now...fantastic!

WOW...that was quick, side one is over already! Loved it, now on to side two.

Hard not to love this album, doesn't sound anything like Dirty Work.

WOW...Too Much Blood...love it. I think at one point I'd considered this the weakest track on the album. The Keith cut so far is the weakest IMHO, I Wanna Hold You. Not bad, just not great.

OK, PBU...fantastic...into the sax solo that Dandy talked about. Brilliant!
What a nice overall groove this song has!

I'm going to put my vote in for a 30th anniversary rerelease of this album complete with an 18 minute workout of Pretty Beat Up on the DELUXE package!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-27 23:43 by treaclefingers.