<Lousy guitar work>

This is interesting. I'd like to hear more of why the guitar work is lously on ABB...

Quote
flacnvinyl
Streets of Love, Sweet Neo Con, Look What The Cat Dragged In, Driving Too Fast and Infamy are terrible songs (in my opinion).

Under The Radar, Rough Justice, Oh No Not You Again, and the most underrated song on the album, Let Me Down Slow, are highlights.

Overall I'd say many of us hate the mixing! The mastering crunched the hell out of every song. Rough Justice is so blown out and distorted that the snare just eats into everything. If any dynamic range were left it would sound more like She's So Cold, and it would come off as a far more powerful opener! Oh No Not You Again has the rhythm guitar mixed at HALF the volume of Keith's fills. Don't get me wrong... I like Keith's riffs, but the rhythm drives the whole song. Not to mention the TERRIBLE sound of the kick drum. Just a loud thud.

Album had great potential. They should have ditched a few songs or take more time to craft the tracks into something more memorable... something they'd like to play on tour. And fire the engineers responsible for mixing and mastering.

Excellent summation !
A pretty good album almost ruined by appalling production values.

And yes, LMDS is a vastly underated song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-25 13:42 by Spud.

Great album but with a terrible sound/mix/production. Of the productionele was any closer to Bridges it would've been more listenable.

I love Voodoo Lounge! I was a very "new" fan when it was released and it was so exciting with a new Stones album! In 95 I saw my first show and that was it. Die-hard fan in the house! I could do without a few of the songs, but all in all VL is one of the Stones album I play most frequently! Brand new car has really grown on me, what a great song! The touching Out of tears. The worst (might say this is on my top 3 list of Keith songs) is a winner. Oh, and Thru and thru!

That said, I have never gotten into Black and blue even though I have tried many times (a few songs are the exceptions). Steel Wheels is almost never played, my favourite would be Slipping away and I can´t really think of other songs except Rock and a hard place. ABB gets much more stereo-time than those two, mostly because Laugh, I nearly died is such a wonderful song and Mick´s vocal is high class! Rough Justice is a good old rocker. It won´t be long, Let me down slow...

Dirty Work is working (pun intended) pretty well for me. DW, One hit, Too rude, Had it with you, the lovely Sleep tonight! And the best one: Fight.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Literally 965 kilometers from being "Born in an Arctic zone".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-25 23:54 by LQ1977.

I don't like it because it suck's.

Terrible sound and front-cover....best songs:

Rough Justice
Streets of Love
Biggest mistake

I just wonder why so many on this board dislike this and that and those and others and still step in.
Sometimes it seems to me that a great portion of people never left pre 1981 and don't realize that the Stones did to oustanding work after Some Girls as well.

For me A Bigger Bang is one of the most refreshing albums. And I also like the compilation of the songs and how they're put together. Despite my doubts about Streets of Love I was surprised how good it worked on stage even.

Anyway I strongly suggest that some should take the move and create a loveandhatesite on their own. But then again it might be boring here....

Women like to talk in the greatest consensus ... I'm a man! And you and all others are wrong!



2 1 2 0

Quote
Gazza
Methinks some people on here just protesteth too much.

I dont think theres any Stones album which is widely disliked on here, let alone hated.

Even their most mediocre studio records (a list which IMO consists of Satanic Majesties and Dirty Work) have a few moments of magnificence which make them better than the finest albums by 95% of acts on the planet.

Quite so.

If DW, VL, ABB or whatever other "mediocre" albums had been releases from an unknown band they'd have been lauded as the best thing since sliced bread.

That's the way I always try to get a perspective on things anyway.

I had a listen to ABB the other day. The rumours of its "badness" is wildy exaggerated

In fact, there is lots of good stuff on it - but it is too long, imo.

It's just the now typical "brick wall" mastering that I don't like.

If the production allowed the recording to breathe, it would be much more rewarding to listen to.

Quote
Spud
It's just the now typical "brick wall" mastering that I don't like.

If the production allowed the recording to breathe, it would be much more rewarding to listen to.

Make a cassette copy, and play it on a shitty stereo system - to get some hiss in the soundscape

Jokes aside, I agree, and this became really evident first on VL. B2B sounded even colder and their sonic nadir hit us with ABB.

Hoever, for some reason, the more mellow songs sound good on ABB (This Place Is Empty, Laugh, I Nearly Died and Biggest Mistake. SOL is poorly mixed as well, so it doesn't sound as good as the other, imo).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-07 15:40 by DandelionPowderman.

Notice how evil the upside down faces look in flacnvinyl's post! Especially Mick's!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-07 16:11 by Elmo Lewis.

Quote
Gazza


Even their most mediocre studio records (a list which IMO consists of Satanic Majesties...

If we ever meet I'm going to wax lyrical on the amazingness of Their Satanic Majesties Request whilst spiking your beer with some acid and/or your food with magic mushrooms. Once our trip truly kicks in I shall then pull out a portable record player and together we shall walk between the grooves of Their Satanic Majesties Request vinyl and allow the music to overwhelm our very being.

We shall surrender to the void.




Later and with the warm trippy glow beginning to fade we shall sit together beside the ibis statue in Hyde Park and watch the sun rise as brothers who have accepted the request by Their Satanic Majesties to step in to their world.


PS: Here's the stones 2017 stage design for the Their Satanic Majesties Request 50th Anniversary tour.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-07 16:52 by His Majesty.

Exhale a bit as well

Quote
Grison
I just wonder why so many on this board dislike this and that and those and others and still step in.
Sometimes it seems to me that a great portion of people never left pre 1981 and don't realize that the Stones did to oustanding work after Some Girls as well.

For me A Bigger Bang is one of the most refreshing albums. And I also like the compilation of the songs and how they're put together. Despite my doubts about Streets of Love I was surprised how good it worked on stage even.

Anyway I strongly suggest that some should take the move and create a loveandhatesite on their own. But then again it might be boring here....

I agree with you, Grison.
Woman or man: you talk sense.

love the album. People bitch just for the sake of complaining. That's all.

Quote
RockinJive
love the album. People bitch just for the sake of complaining. That's all.

No, it's because of the crap songs and horrible production etc.

I'm not convinced that the mastering would have made it a better LP. Sure it would have sounded better...

Some good songs on this record considering. But again, too many songs. And the must-have stinker with Streets Of Love.

Had they not included Oh No Not You Again, Sweet Neo Con and Streets Of Love then right there the album is much better. I happen to like Look What The Cat Dragged In and Driving Too Fast but they probably could've left those off as well.

Reagardless of that it's a great album to drive with.

Of all their post-WWIII albums, I like this one the most. It's still not an album of theirs I get out very often, but there are some definite highlights.

Question: Why is it a consensus that "Sweet Neo Con" is one of their worst songs/one of this album's worst songs? Are the people who claim this a) libertarians, b) genuine fans of the Rumsfeld/Cheney/Bush policies or c) people who actually liked the actions of the U.S. and U.K. governments at that time? I personally thought it was one of the three best on the record and that Mick's lyrics were really biting and the music snarled! I was wholly disappointed that, in his effort to not get the boos from half of the divided crowd that CSNY got every night they played "Let's Impeach The President" on their concurrent tour, they NEVER played it live. Mick's genuine urge to be daring had long been replaced by the need for total audience acceptance, 100% of the time if possible. A shame.

To me it's the fact that SNC is a political song - not the side it takes. Really the rhythm and music would be fine with different lyrics. BTW, I like "Dangerous Beauty" although it is similar subject matter.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-07 21:52 by seitan.

That's a good live performance! ^

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic
Of all their post-WWIII albums, I like this one the most. It's still not an album of theirs I get out very often, but there are some definite highlights.

Question: Why is it a consensus that "Sweet Neo Con" is one of their worst songs/one of this album's worst songs? Are the people who claim this a) libertarians, b) genuine fans of the Rumsfeld/Cheney/Bush policies or c) people who actually liked the actions of the U.S. and U.K. governments at that time? I personally thought it was one of the three best on the record and that Mick's lyrics were really biting and the music snarled! I was wholly disappointed that, in his effort to not get the boos from half of the divided crowd that CSNY got every night they played "Let's Impeach The President" on their concurrent tour, they NEVER played it live. Mick's genuine urge to be daring had long been replaced by the need for total audience acceptance, 100% of the time if possible. A shame.

Sweet Neocon wasn't my favourite on ABB, but I am as surprised as you are to the hostility to the track. I mean it should not be that surprising that such lyrics could occur on a Stones album.

ABB is frustrating to me because it's such a missed opportunity. And since it's the only real full studio release in 16 years, that frustration is compounded. I think they had good material; good enough to be that long-awaited post-TY undisputed 'classic' that VL and B2B didn't quite turn out to be due to their lengths and lack of just one or 2 more guitar-y anthems each. After coming up with a really solid batch of song ideas, I think Mick, Keith and Don Was kind of blew off the rest of the process of arranging/producing. (The 2002 model, ala "Don't Stop".)

1. Songcraft was thrown out the window. Not much effort put into crafting intros, endings, bridges or instrumental breaks to dynamically energize the songs that needed it. LIND, RFD and BOMH are almost the only songs that actually sound like they were 'fully realized' or finished. And nary a single decent guitar/sax/harp break or solo out of 18 tracks? That's a first.

2. Demo-ish sounding. The lack of decent arrangements, solos and care make the songs sound weak and unfinished, like the 4 2002 cuts on 40Licks. Where's that piano or acoustic guitar, whether in the foreground or imperceptibly filling out the sound? 0:20 seconds into SSMC it sounds like Mick didn't finish the improvised lyric ideas so it comes off as unfinished. Why not lop off the opening 10 seconds of RJ noodling? Why not just take some time to play around with SNC's chorus melody so it doesn't just sound like "Nyah-nyah Nyah-nyah"; those were great biting lyrics. It's the producers again coming up short in their role; there was definitely a really great album here but they slacked off and followed the 2002 model.

3. Guitar anthems. When you have more potentially great guitar riffage songs than practically every album since SG, you need to lovingly give them attention, full sounding arrangements, impeccable guitar overdubs, etc. UTR, SSMC, RJ, RFD, LWTCDI and DTF would have been more masterfully treated and nourished on ANY prior Stones' record.

4. Presentation. As many have noted, brick walled sound and too many songs. Let the mixes breathe and whittle it down to 45 minutes; release the rest as outtakes, b-sides, downloads, etc. And the handling of UTR as a deluxe edition bonus track only?! Face palm. Shoulda been one of the first tracks that everybody heard on the album and trotted out on the road.

Again, great starting material and feels, but a frustrating listening experience because they didn't flesh out the songs and let them live up to their potential. Then they brickwalled the sound and didn't cull the songs down to the strongest 10 tracks. A missed opportunity.

Quote
winter
ABB is frustrating to me because it's such a missed opportunity. And since it's the only real full studio release in 16 years, that frustration is compounded. I think they had good material; good enough to be that long-awaited post-TY undisputed 'classic' that VL and B2B didn't quite turn out to be due to their lengths and lack of just one or 2 more guitar-y anthems each. After coming up with a really solid batch of song ideas, I think Mick, Keith and Don Was kind of blew off the rest of the process of arranging/producing. (The 2002 model, ala "Don't Stop".)

1. Songcraft was thrown out the window. Not much effort put into crafting intros, endings, bridges or instrumental breaks to dynamically energize the songs that needed it. LIND, RFD and BOMH are almost the only songs that actually sound like they were 'fully realized' or finished. And nary a single decent guitar/sax/harp break or solo out of 18 tracks? That's a first.

2. Demo-ish sounding. The lack of decent arrangements, solos and care make the songs sound weak and unfinished, like the 4 2002 cuts on 40Licks. Where's that piano or acoustic guitar, whether in the foreground or imperceptibly filling out the sound? 0:20 seconds into SSMC it sounds like Mick didn't finish the improvised lyric ideas so it comes off as unfinished. Why not lop off the opening 10 seconds of RJ noodling? Why not just take some time to play around with SNC's chorus melody so it doesn't just sound like "Nyah-nyah Nyah-nyah"; those were great biting lyrics. It's the producers again coming up short in their role; there was definitely a really great album here but they slacked off and followed the 2002 model.

3. Guitar anthems. When you have more potentially great guitar riffage songs than practically every album since SG, you need to lovingly give them attention, full sounding arrangements, impeccable guitar overdubs, etc. UTR, SSMC, RJ, RFD, LWTCDI and DTF would have been more masterfully treated and nourished on ANY prior Stones' record.

4. Presentation. As many have noted, brick walled sound and too many songs. Let the mixes breathe and whittle it down to 45 minutes; release the rest as outtakes, b-sides, downloads, etc. And the handling of UTR as a deluxe edition bonus track only?! Face palm. Shoulda been one of the first tracks that everybody heard on the album and trotted out on the road.

Again, great starting material and feels, but a frustrating listening experience because they didn't flesh out the songs and let them live up to their potential. Then they brickwalled the sound and didn't cull the songs down to the strongest 10 tracks. A missed opportunity.

Didn't Mick actually want to put more effort into finishing the tracks but Keith and Don Was insisted it was good 'as is'? I recall Keith bragging about that.

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic
Are the people who claim this a) libertarians

Huh? Do you even know what that is? I'm a Libertarian, and I happen to agree with the sentiment of the song, but I would rather not listen to some half-baked crap by a celebrity like Mick Jagger or anyone else telling me how I should think. I think the song sucks. I'm glad we don't discuss politics on this message board because you can't distill it down to a few stanzas.

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic
Question: Why is it a consensus that "Sweet Neo Con" is one of their worst songs/one of this album's worst songs? Are the people who claim this a) libertarians, b) genuine fans of the Rumsfeld/Cheney/Bush policies or c) people who actually liked the actions of the U.S. and U.K. governments at that time?

You left out d) fans who just think it sucks

I just think it stinks. Sucks. Whatever. I don't care so much about whatever political stance someone has and how they feel etc, especially if it's articulated enough to not come off as chest thumping. No more so than if I was to get upset if I found out they like Campbell's Soup or ate Kelloggs cereals or my best friend likes Elton John. Everyone makes bad choices. It's not the end of the world.

It's somewhat funny, this song, lyrically. But really it's just a giant shitbomb of a song. It's as bad as Winning Ugly.

COVER WAS ASS...RECORD WAS GREAT.

I'm not being contrary, but I really like the cover art for A Bigger Bang. I think it's a pretty cool little composite, very contemporary but reflective of the band's dark / light dicothomy (big word, that!). It's a much better representation of a bunch of 60-something year-old rock musicians than the usual "standing around in semi-shadow, with bad sunglasses to cover the wrinkles and attempt to look young" job.

Also not to be contrary, but I quite like Streets Of Love in the context of the album. It's really quite a decent later-era ballad from the Stones, no more corporate / meaningless than 80% of their other tracks since Dirty Work. It's a better ballad than Always Suffering, for example, and about as good as Already Over Me. And I love the little breakdown when Jagger suddenly comes in with a single-tracked vocal for a few lines. Great vocal performance on this track all round.

In my opinion much of the album is quite enjoyable, if you aren't expecting 1973 to come forth from your speakers. It's the usual corporate songwriting mostly, but the band is recorded very well (I'm not talking about the mastering), and they play beautifully. Cutting down on contributors from B2B was a positive move. A good variety of songs keeps boredom at bay, and there is plenty to marvel at for a Stones fan.

I think Sweet Neo Con is indeed one of the weaker songs (a bit too Goddess In The Doorway-like, ie. lackluster), along with Dangerous Beauty and Driving Too Fast for me. So it's a pretty good average. If they never make another album, there are worse ways to bow out than this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-08 08:40 by Denny.