Tell Me :
Talk
I think this remark nicely reflects something of the unique nature of AFTERMATH. One can feel whatever of the quality of the long jam of "Goin' Home", but its inclusion to the very album was not just an excellent, but also typical choice for the adventurous nature of the the album. It fits there, it belongs there, and it is 'groundbreaking' thing in many ways. An original choice (and they were a blues band initially so it emerged rather naturally; it's in them, they just let it out).
But if we compare that to "See What Happens"... I don't think there was anything very original or ground-breaking in it at all. Just a boring drug-based hippie jam, a kind of thing anyone was doing at the time... Sounds too obvious.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 13:30 by Doxa.
WOT???????????
"the height of their 'bravity' and ambition"
"tried things they would never have tried earlier or ever tried again"
Ever heard of Satanic Majesties?
Most of Beggars.
Midnight Rambler?
British Between the Buttons?
And a LOT of the textures and idaes of A'math and Buttons ...... and Satanics came from the group's founder ..... Mr B. Jones esquire.
Now philosophise your way out of that one our Finnish friend!
It's one of my definite favourites on the album. The lyrics go hand in hand with UMT
>
<
I only correct myself in that sense that I include Brian Jones - and all of them - to that the claim of 'height of their bravity and ambition'. The most obvious features, of course, are Mick and Keith's expanded - or exploded - musical vocabulary, and Brian Jones's multi-instrumentalism. I seriously think that AFTERMATH is their biggest musical step in their musical career. Compared to anything they did prior, the album really was a Monty Pythonian move - "now, something completely different". Not that they turned totally original, they also reinvented their sound, and conquered 'odd', new musical areas for them. What BETWEEN THE BUTTONS did, was just heading further in the chosen new direction, laid in AFTERMATH. The novelties in BETWEEN THE BUTTONS wasn't so radically different than the ones in AFTERMATH. And the difference between AFTERMATH and OUT OF THEIR HEADS is still radically bigger than between SATANIC MAJESTIES and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS. I mean, the band who just charmed the world with their raw take on rhythm'n'blues and known for such original hits like "Satusfaction" and "19th Nervous Breakdown" were now doing a pure Elizabethian "Lady Jane"....
So I think AFTERMATH is their most 'experimental album' ever (in the sense of expanding their own musical boundaries); in type of songs, in instruments used, in creating the feel and atmosphere - they never been so brave and adventurous and willing to take riskies. As they 'matured up' they would be more professional, and style-conscious, genre-driven, but never so open-minded and free as they are here. For example, even though SATANIC MAJESTIES is from the outset so psychedelic and experimental, I think it is much more close-minded deal actually, and they sound much more under some constraining musical vision than what they do in AFTERMATH. Psychedelic an sich. In AFTERMATH they seemingly leave all of their initial stylistic ideas out, and are willing to try any crazy idea they might come up with. For that reason, AFTERMATH is still a funny album to listen (all those arrangements, choices of sounds and instruments, melodies, etc.).
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 14:34 by Doxa.
[Re "Stupid Girl"] No, they don't. The lyrics of "Under My Thumb" are witty and clever, with funny metaphors it contains even a little story of the complex power relationship, while "Stupid Girl" is just vulgar finger-pointing...
- Doxa
Hey DP, DBM, INE, F505 and H&D are all pop songs - not blues.. So the guy's point stands.
Essentially so much difference between UK and US release. US is 11 track (and imo stronger because with less pop fill) and UK release is 14 - with 'lighter' feel.
Begs the question who chose to release what in both markets. Did Stones choose separate track listings, or even the UK one even?
Probably London chose tracks to suit American Market and Decca those to suit UK. UK was in middle of pop explosion/revolution - Carnaby Street etc - mods - this all alien to US. Therefore would make more commercial sense to release a more ecclectiacally pop mixture. c.f. Kinks, Hollies, etc.
Not sure how London chose its eleven for Aftermath and whether it already preplanned to relaese Flowers and so had decided how to split the 1965 recordings (mainly) between two albums.
Begs the question
It sure starts that way, but the chorus is country all the way.
Wonderful song
He can do so simply by pointing you towards Satanic Sessions double box set and within that you will find that Keith was the main musical director behind TSMR.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 16:35 by His Majesty.
"Vegas Era" means the pretending to be the Rolling Stones under the auspices of their puppet master Chuck (Leavell). In contrary the decline I mean consists in pretending to be the better Beatles. Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten (a cobbler should stick to his last, if this is right in English).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 17:54 by RobertJohnson.
Good point to pick up the differences between the UK and US versions, and that they had a bit different ways to charm the audiences in those markets.
Yeah, in a way the British version has more certain independent artistic value; it makes the statement - of their originality, of their changed sound - further than the US one. Actually the difference between US DECEMBER'S CHiLDREN and AFTERMATH is not that radical as I described above. The US albums altogether tend to have such 'soft' or 'pop-oriented' material (like DECEMBER'S CHILDREN "Singer Not The Song", "Blue Turns To Grey", "As Tears Go By") or such AFTERMATH-type originals such as "One More Try" (and of course, all the Jagger/Original originals) wheras the British albums were rather strongly cover- and rhythm'n'blues oriented by then.
I tend to think that the British releases altogether were more 'radical' - emphasizing certain point - by nature whereas US ones were more compromise-like, having a bit more diversity in material (hit singles and more poppish filler songs). That's why I happen to see the UK releases having more 'character'. We have to also notice that The UK fans were charmed from the beginning with a bit 'rougher' material, at least if we look at their radio hits ("I Wanna Be Your Man", "Not Fade Away", "It's All Over Now", "Little Red Rooster"...) whereas in USA they first hits were more poppish or softer stuff ("Tell Me", "Time Is On My Side", "Heart of Stone"...), "Satisfaction" being there the first single that hit the mark big time with their more typical style (and from then on the single hits turned out to be the same ones in both big markets).
Of course, the decision to have or not single hits at albums has nothing to do with artistic choices, but following the demands of the market.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 18:56 by Doxa.
Easy tiger, this is something we don't know much about.
I thought that was common knowledge. A routine shared both by The Stones and The Beatles in the early years. What else there could have been for the bands to have such a habit but the demands of the markets (supervised by their record companies I guess)?
- Doxa
London records decided to alter their debut, including the cover. The US albums certainly seem less artistic driven, more get as much product out as possible even if they make little sense with regards to their development or value for money.
We know what the markets were used to, but not the involvement of the stones on the track selection of their albums up to TSMR which is where US and UK albums begin to align track wise.
Singles not being on their albums could well be an artistic choice, were it not then We Love You would have appeared on US TSMR and JJF would have appeared on US version of Beggars Banquet. Is it coincidence that the moment they break free from ALO their next three albums in both US and UK don't feature the seperate, but related singles? That's artistic choice right there brother Doxa.
The tackier London records US approach was still some what maintained by nabbing tracks from TSMR and BB though.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 20:23 by His Majesty.
I can confirm that one does not need to be over 55 to appreciate this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 20:38 by His Majesty.
Yes we do. As a matter of fact ALO has confirmed that him and The Stones supervised the US albums themselves. It was an artistic choice based on different marketing issues in the UK and US. The Beatles did not supervise their US albums. There is a big difference.
Totally agree an essential stage in the evolution of the Jagger/Richards writing partnershipeading towards the great 4. And IMO the pinnacle of Brian's great musicianship. He was in love and maybe in a good place at the time.
...until they perfected the album in the U.S.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 30, 2013 13:29
Quote
Deluxtone
Going Home IS boring after about 3 minutes - but the idea was good - and fairly 'break-through' - so hats off to them for that - going boldly to new territories. Hence very worthy for inclusion.
I would not make the same argument for long version of Sing This All Together however! But it's part of their history now .........
I think this remark nicely reflects something of the unique nature of AFTERMATH. One can feel whatever of the quality of the long jam of "Goin' Home", but its inclusion to the very album was not just an excellent, but also typical choice for the adventurous nature of the the album. It fits there, it belongs there, and it is 'groundbreaking' thing in many ways. An original choice (and they were a blues band initially so it emerged rather naturally; it's in them, they just let it out).
But if we compare that to "See What Happens"... I don't think there was anything very original or ground-breaking in it at all. Just a boring drug-based hippie jam, a kind of thing anyone was doing at the time... Sounds too obvious.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 13:30 by Doxa.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 13:33
Stonehearted, yes, Around and Around the album.
Not sure if you'll get it on CD though. It was my first Stones' album, in 1970.
And i was brought up in UK! We ahd a very good record stall in our toww with lots of imports and yes, bootlegs. Wish I'd bought more of them at the time.
I bought Flowers there, probably in the same year, so was very familiar with before I ever bought a UK version of Aftermath which i found weak in 'comparison'. Flowers' version of Out Of Time is better methinks.
Doxa, all good info and I generally agree with your points but I'm going to HAVE TO take you to task on one 'small' isue ......!
Not sure if you'll get it on CD though. It was my first Stones' album, in 1970.
And i was brought up in UK! We ahd a very good record stall in our toww with lots of imports and yes, bootlegs. Wish I'd bought more of them at the time.
I bought Flowers there, probably in the same year, so was very familiar with before I ever bought a UK version of Aftermath which i found weak in 'comparison'. Flowers' version of Out Of Time is better methinks.
Doxa, all good info and I generally agree with your points but I'm going to HAVE TO take you to task on one 'small' isue ......!
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 13:35
Quote
Doxa
Yeah, I have also wondered why on earth left "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On, Baby" out of AFTERMATH. I think both of them are better than some of the tracks there, especially concerning the 14-song piece UK version ("What to Do", "Think", "Stupid Girl", "Take It Or Leave It" comes to mind).
But that said, I agree with Stonehearted that there is a particular charm in 'lesser' tracks well, and I think that is very true of AFTERMATH. Each song has a 'point', and they are charmingly experimential in little nuances, etc. The songs might not always be winners but Jagger/Richard are really in the height of their bravity and ambition. With no hesitation they would try things they have never tried earlier and would ever try again. That attitude alone makes AFTERMATH special. I think they never again be so naturally experimental and sound so fresh and eager as they do in those AFTERMATH sessions. Brian's career highlight as well.
- Doxa
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 13:39
Quote
Doxa
Yeah, I have also wondered why on earth left "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On, Baby" out of AFTERMATH. I think both of them are better than some of the tracks there, especially concerning the 14-song piece UK version ("What to Do", "Think", "Stupid Girl", "Take It Or Leave It" comes to mind).
But that said, I agree with Stonehearted that there is a particular charm in 'lesser' tracks well, and I think that is very true of AFTERMATH. Each song has a 'point', and they are charmingly experimential in little nuances, etc. The songs might not always be winners but Jagger/Richard are really in the height of their bravity and ambition. With no hesitation they would try things they have never tried earlier and would ever try again. That attitude alone makes AFTERMATH special. I think they never again be so naturally experimental and sound so fresh and eager as they do in those AFTERMATH sessions. Brian's career highlight as well.
- Doxa
WOT???????????
"the height of their 'bravity' and ambition"
"tried things they would never have tried earlier or ever tried again"
Ever heard of Satanic Majesties?
Most of Beggars.
Midnight Rambler?
British Between the Buttons?
And a LOT of the textures and idaes of A'math and Buttons ...... and Satanics came from the group's founder ..... Mr B. Jones esquire.
Now philosophise your way out of that one our Finnish friend!
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: September 30, 2013 13:41
At the time the Stones were already masters of the single format, but only apprentices of long playing. As a result, Aftermath is a good album, it has superb single songs (thumb, , but as a whole, it is not one of the strongest.
As I see it, the Aftermath concept - pop songs influenced by black american music, a combination of mean electrics but with a strong acoustic flavor, Brian's add ons - reached perfection only with Beggars Banquet.
Probably the 60's stones album that is less played at my place!
C
As I see it, the Aftermath concept - pop songs influenced by black american music, a combination of mean electrics but with a strong acoustic flavor, Brian's add ons - reached perfection only with Beggars Banquet.
Probably the 60's stones album that is less played at my place!
C
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 30, 2013 14:11
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Doxa
Yeah, I have also wondered why on earth left "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On, Baby" out of AFTERMATH. I think both of them are better than some of the tracks there, especially concerning the 14-song piece UK version ("What to Do", "Think", "Stupid Girl", "Take It Or Leave It" comes to mind).
But that said, I agree with Stonehearted that there is a particular charm in 'lesser' tracks well, and I think that is very true of AFTERMATH. Each song has a 'point', and they are charmingly experimential in little nuances, etc. The songs might not always be winners but Jagger/Richard are really in the height of their bravity and ambition. With no hesitation they would try things they have never tried earlier and would ever try again. That attitude alone makes AFTERMATH special. I think they never again be so naturally experimental and sound so fresh and eager as they do in those AFTERMATH sessions. Brian's career highlight as well.
- Doxa
I don't think "Stupid Girl" is very memorable, and it sounds filler in that context by surrounded such a A-class songs ("Mothers Little Helper", "Lady Jane", "Under My Thumb"), even though I admit it fits well the to run of the songs (thereby, a good filler
- Doxa
It's one of my definite favourites on the album. The lyrics go hand in hand with UMT
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 30, 2013 14:16
<It would have been better if they had tried to compose own blues songs in the tradition of this great heritage.>
Doncha Bother Me
Going Home
It's Not Easy
Flight 505
High And Dry
All are exactly that.
That's half of a normal album. Hadn't the album been so long and versatile, we would never have complained about this.
Some of the best songs on the album were pop-ish or experimental, though, and that may have contributed to people forgetting about, or underappreciating the blues, r&b, country blues-tracks.
Doncha Bother Me
Going Home
It's Not Easy
Flight 505
High And Dry
All are exactly that.
That's half of a normal album. Hadn't the album been so long and versatile, we would never have complained about this.
Some of the best songs on the album were pop-ish or experimental, though, and that may have contributed to people forgetting about, or underappreciating the blues, r&b, country blues-tracks.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 30, 2013 14:30
Quote
DeluxtoneQuote
Doxa
Yeah, I have also wondered why on earth left "Sittin' On A Fence" and "Ride On, Baby" out of AFTERMATH. I think both of them are better than some of the tracks there, especially concerning the 14-song piece UK version ("What to Do", "Think", "Stupid Girl", "Take It Or Leave It" comes to mind).
But that said, I agree with Stonehearted that there is a particular charm in 'lesser' tracks well, and I think that is very true of AFTERMATH. Each song has a 'point', and they are charmingly experimential in little nuances, etc. The songs might not always be winners but Jagger/Richard are really in the height of their bravity and ambition. With no hesitation they would try things they have never tried earlier and would ever try again. That attitude alone makes AFTERMATH special. I think they never again be so naturally experimental and sound so fresh and eager as they do in those AFTERMATH sessions. Brian's career highlight as well.
- Doxa
WOT???????????
"the height of their 'bravity' and ambition"
"tried things they would never have tried earlier or ever tried again"
Ever heard of Satanic Majesties?
Most of Beggars.
Midnight Rambler?
British Between the Buttons?
And a LOT of the textures and idaes of A'math and Buttons ...... and Satanics came from the group's founder ..... Mr B. Jones esquire.
Now philosophise your way out of that one our Finnish friend!
>
<I only correct myself in that sense that I include Brian Jones - and all of them - to that the claim of 'height of their bravity and ambition'. The most obvious features, of course, are Mick and Keith's expanded - or exploded - musical vocabulary, and Brian Jones's multi-instrumentalism. I seriously think that AFTERMATH is their biggest musical step in their musical career. Compared to anything they did prior, the album really was a Monty Pythonian move - "now, something completely different". Not that they turned totally original, they also reinvented their sound, and conquered 'odd', new musical areas for them. What BETWEEN THE BUTTONS did, was just heading further in the chosen new direction, laid in AFTERMATH. The novelties in BETWEEN THE BUTTONS wasn't so radically different than the ones in AFTERMATH. And the difference between AFTERMATH and OUT OF THEIR HEADS is still radically bigger than between SATANIC MAJESTIES and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS. I mean, the band who just charmed the world with their raw take on rhythm'n'blues and known for such original hits like "Satusfaction" and "19th Nervous Breakdown" were now doing a pure Elizabethian "Lady Jane"....
So I think AFTERMATH is their most 'experimental album' ever (in the sense of expanding their own musical boundaries); in type of songs, in instruments used, in creating the feel and atmosphere - they never been so brave and adventurous and willing to take riskies. As they 'matured up' they would be more professional, and style-conscious, genre-driven, but never so open-minded and free as they are here. For example, even though SATANIC MAJESTIES is from the outset so psychedelic and experimental, I think it is much more close-minded deal actually, and they sound much more under some constraining musical vision than what they do in AFTERMATH. Psychedelic an sich. In AFTERMATH they seemingly leave all of their initial stylistic ideas out, and are willing to try any crazy idea they might come up with. For that reason, AFTERMATH is still a funny album to listen (all those arrangements, choices of sounds and instruments, melodies, etc.).
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 14:34 by Doxa.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 30, 2013 14:44
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's one of my definite favourites on the album. The lyrics go hand in hand with UMT
[Re "Stupid Girl"] No, they don't. The lyrics of "Under My Thumb" are witty and clever, with funny metaphors it contains even a little story of the complex power relationship, while "Stupid Girl" is just vulgar finger-pointing...
- Doxa
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 30, 2013 14:50
<with funny metaphors>
Like this one?
"She purrs like a pussycat. Then she turns around and hisses back"
Songs like Under My Thumb and Stupid Girl were all a spin-off from our environment... hotels, and too many dumb chicks. Not all dumb, not by any means, but that's how one got.
- Keith Richards, 1971
It's much nastier than Under My Thumb... Obviously, I was having a bit of trouble. I wasn't in a good relationship. Or I was in too many bad relationships. I had so many girlfriends at that point. None of them seemed to care they weren't pleasing me very much. I was obviously in with the wrong group.
- Mick Jagger, 1995
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 14:52 by DandelionPowderman.
Like this one?
"She purrs like a pussycat. Then she turns around and hisses back"
Songs like Under My Thumb and Stupid Girl were all a spin-off from our environment... hotels, and too many dumb chicks. Not all dumb, not by any means, but that's how one got.
- Keith Richards, 1971
It's much nastier than Under My Thumb... Obviously, I was having a bit of trouble. I wasn't in a good relationship. Or I was in too many bad relationships. I had so many girlfriends at that point. None of them seemed to care they weren't pleasing me very much. I was obviously in with the wrong group.
- Mick Jagger, 1995
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 14:52 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 15:15
Well then, Mick, how about Look at that STUPID man?
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 15:24
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<It would have been better if they had tried to compose own blues songs in the tradition of this great heritage.>
Doncha Bother Me
Going Home
It's Not Easy
Flight 505
High And Dry
All are exactly that.
That's half of a normal album. Hadn't the album been so long and versatile, we would never have complained about this.
Some of the best songs on the album were pop-ish or experimental, though, and that may have contributed to people forgetting about, or underappreciating the blues, r&b, country blues-tracks.
Hey DP, DBM, INE, F505 and H&D are all pop songs - not blues.. So the guy's point stands.
Essentially so much difference between UK and US release. US is 11 track (and imo stronger because with less pop fill) and UK release is 14 - with 'lighter' feel.
Begs the question who chose to release what in both markets. Did Stones choose separate track listings, or even the UK one even?
Probably London chose tracks to suit American Market and Decca those to suit UK. UK was in middle of pop explosion/revolution - Carnaby Street etc - mods - this all alien to US. Therefore would make more commercial sense to release a more ecclectiacally pop mixture. c.f. Kinks, Hollies, etc.
Not sure how London chose its eleven for Aftermath and whether it already preplanned to relaese Flowers and so had decided how to split the 1965 recordings (mainly) between two albums.
Begs the question
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 30, 2013 15:49
<Hey DP, DBM, INE, F505 and H&D are all pop songs - not blues.. So the guy's point stands.>
If you seriously believe that, then this goes for all their blues songs...
High And Dry - a pop song! Never heard that before
If you seriously believe that, then this goes for all their blues songs...
High And Dry - a pop song! Never heard that before
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 15:52
The quirky tempo for starters .......... now I really must go and do some WORK!
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: September 30, 2013 16:08
High & Dry to my ears is a kind of Appalachian mountain folk song.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 30, 2013 16:12
Quote
Silver Dagger
High & Dry to my ears is a kind of Appalachian mountain folk song.
It sure starts that way, but the chorus is country all the way.
Wonderful song
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 30, 2013 16:29
Quote
Deluxtone
And a LOT of the textures and idaes of A'math and Buttons ...... and Satanics came from the group's founder ..... Mr B. Jones esquire.
Now philosophise your way out of that one our Finnish friend!
He can do so simply by pointing you towards Satanic Sessions double box set and within that you will find that Keith was the main musical director behind TSMR.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 16:35 by His Majesty.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: September 30, 2013 17:52
Quote
stonehearted
Well, at last. I knew some who held this opinion were out there. But it's good to hear from someone who thinks the "Vegas era" actually began in 1966 as opposed to 1989.
"Vegas Era" means the pretending to be the Rolling Stones under the auspices of their puppet master Chuck (Leavell). In contrary the decline I mean consists in pretending to be the better Beatles. Schuster, bleib bei deinen Leisten (a cobbler should stick to his last, if this is right in English).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 17:54 by RobertJohnson.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 30, 2013 18:52
Quote
Deluxtone
Essentially so much difference between UK and US release. US is 11 track (and imo stronger because with less pop fill) and UK release is 14 - with 'lighter' feel.
Begs the question who chose to release what in both markets. Did Stones choose separate track listings, or even the UK one even?
Probably London chose tracks to suit American Market and Decca those to suit UK. UK was in middle of pop explosion/revolution - Carnaby Street etc - mods - this all alien to US. Therefore would make more commercial sense to release a more ecclectiacally pop mixture. c.f. Kinks, Hollies, etc.
Not sure how London chose its eleven for Aftermath and whether it already preplanned to relaese Flowers and so had decided how to split the 1965 recordings (mainly) between two albums.
Begs the question
Good point to pick up the differences between the UK and US versions, and that they had a bit different ways to charm the audiences in those markets.
Yeah, in a way the British version has more certain independent artistic value; it makes the statement - of their originality, of their changed sound - further than the US one. Actually the difference between US DECEMBER'S CHiLDREN and AFTERMATH is not that radical as I described above. The US albums altogether tend to have such 'soft' or 'pop-oriented' material (like DECEMBER'S CHILDREN "Singer Not The Song", "Blue Turns To Grey", "As Tears Go By") or such AFTERMATH-type originals such as "One More Try" (and of course, all the Jagger/Original originals) wheras the British albums were rather strongly cover- and rhythm'n'blues oriented by then.
I tend to think that the British releases altogether were more 'radical' - emphasizing certain point - by nature whereas US ones were more compromise-like, having a bit more diversity in material (hit singles and more poppish filler songs). That's why I happen to see the UK releases having more 'character'. We have to also notice that The UK fans were charmed from the beginning with a bit 'rougher' material, at least if we look at their radio hits ("I Wanna Be Your Man", "Not Fade Away", "It's All Over Now", "Little Red Rooster"...) whereas in USA they first hits were more poppish or softer stuff ("Tell Me", "Time Is On My Side", "Heart of Stone"...), "Satisfaction" being there the first single that hit the mark big time with their more typical style (and from then on the single hits turned out to be the same ones in both big markets).
Of course, the decision to have or not single hits at albums has nothing to do with artistic choices, but following the demands of the market.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 18:56 by Doxa.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 30, 2013 18:59
Quote
Doxa
Of course, the decision to have or not single hits at albums has nothing to do with artistic choices, but following the demands of the market.
- Doxa
Easy tiger, this is something we don't know much about.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 30, 2013 19:08
In 2Stoned though ALO reveals that changes to the debut album were the result of tampering by London records.
Regardless of all this, their artistic evolution is better and more logically represented via the UK singles, ep's and albums.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 19:10 by His Majesty.
Regardless of all this, their artistic evolution is better and more logically represented via the UK singles, ep's and albums.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 19:10 by His Majesty.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 30, 2013 19:59
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
Of course, the decision to have or not single hits at albums has nothing to do with artistic choices, but following the demands of the market.
- Doxa
Easy tiger, this is something we don't know much about.
I thought that was common knowledge. A routine shared both by The Stones and The Beatles in the early years. What else there could have been for the bands to have such a habit but the demands of the markets (supervised by their record companies I guess)?
- Doxa
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 30, 2013 20:11
Quote
Doxa
I thought that was common knowledge. A routine shared both by The Stones and The Beatles in the early years. What else there could have been for the bands to have such a habit but the demands of the markets (supervised by their record companies I guess)?
- Doxa
London records decided to alter their debut, including the cover. The US albums certainly seem less artistic driven, more get as much product out as possible even if they make little sense with regards to their development or value for money.
We know what the markets were used to, but not the involvement of the stones on the track selection of their albums up to TSMR which is where US and UK albums begin to align track wise.
Singles not being on their albums could well be an artistic choice, were it not then We Love You would have appeared on US TSMR and JJF would have appeared on US version of Beggars Banquet. Is it coincidence that the moment they break free from ALO their next three albums in both US and UK don't feature the seperate, but related singles? That's artistic choice right there brother Doxa.
The tackier London records US approach was still some what maintained by nabbing tracks from TSMR and BB though.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 20:23 by His Majesty.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Starr
()
Date: September 30, 2013 20:24
I can't agree more with Doxa and Silver Dagger - this album is a masterpiece in my opinion - I just love it. I think maybe you would have to be British and over 55 to really appreciate just how great it still is/ and most certainly was, in the 60s...
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: September 30, 2013 20:32
Quote
Starr
I can't agree more with Doxa and Silver Dagger - this album is a masterpiece in my opinion - I just love it. I think maybe you would have to be British and over 55 to really appreciate just how great it still is/ and most certainly was, in the 60s...
I can confirm that one does not need to be over 55 to appreciate this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-30 20:38 by His Majesty.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
runaway
()
Date: September 30, 2013 20:48
Aftermath belongs in the ranks of the great Stones albums, this album is full of creativity and experimentation, the blues transformed to the mainland of the Stones on this album.
I still feel the same about this great vinyl album at the time I bought it, probably 40 years ago.
I still feel the same about this great vinyl album at the time I bought it, probably 40 years ago.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: September 30, 2013 21:08
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
I thought that was common knowledge. A routine shared both by The Stones and The Beatles in the early years. What else there could have been for the bands to have such a habit but the demands of the markets (supervised by their record companies I guess)?
- Doxa
London records decided to alter their debut, including the cover. The US albums certainly seem less artistic driven, more get as much product out as possible even if they make little sense with regards to their development or value for money.
We know what the markets were used to, but not the involvement of the stones on the track selection of their albums up to TSMR which is where US and UK albums begin to align track wise.
Singles not being on their albums could well be an artistic choice, were it not then We Love You would have appeared on US TSMR and JJF would have appeared on US version of Beggars Banquet. Is it coincidence that the moment they break free from ALO their next three albums in both US and UK don't feature the seperate, but related singles? That's artistic choice right there brother Doxa.
The tackier London records US approach was still some what maintained by nabbing tracks from TSMR and BB though.
Yes we do. As a matter of fact ALO has confirmed that him and The Stones supervised the US albums themselves. It was an artistic choice based on different marketing issues in the UK and US. The Beatles did not supervise their US albums. There is a big difference.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
desertblues68
()
Date: September 30, 2013 21:28
Quote
runaway
Aftermath belongs in the ranks of the great Stones albums, this album is full of creativity and experimentation, the blues transformed to the mainland of the Stones on this album.
I still feel the same about this great vinyl album at the time I bought it, probably 40 years ago.
Totally agree an essential stage in the evolution of the Jagger/Richards writing partnershipeading towards the great 4. And IMO the pinnacle of Brian's great musicianship. He was in love and maybe in a good place at the time.
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
Deluxtone
()
Date: September 30, 2013 21:30
Interesting blueranger - can you provide the source for ALO's confirmation?
Re: Listening to Aftermath UK Edition
Posted by:
loog droog
()
Date: September 30, 2013 21:33
Quote
Rockman
UK all the way ....
...until they perfected the album in the U.S.
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