The appeal of a Kinks reunion is diminished without Mick Avory and new material.

BTW, the last lineup of the Kinks had as many original members of Argent (Bob Henrit and Jim Rodford) as it did of the Kinks (Ray and Dave).

To answer the question in the previous post: Is it I'm Not Like Everybody Else?

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ab
The appeal of a Kinks reunion is diminished without Mick Avory and new material.

BTW, the last lineup of the Kinks had as many original members of Argent (Bob Henrit and Jim Rodford) as it did of the Kinks (Ray and Dave).

To answer the question in the previous post: Is it I'm Not Like Everybody Else?

Correct! Your prize is two tickets to the May 2014 Kinks at Madison Square Garden. You can also pick them up and see them in Chicago or Toronto if this is more convenient

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triceratops

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stonehearted
But, ironically, Dave now has more net worth than his brother Ray, who is notoriously tight with his money.

This is amazing. Any details on how authoring Death of a Clown (yes he wrote-sang others) translates into higher networth. It seems plausible but Ray has written more so more royalties

wikipedia (what tune is this?)
Davies had written the song for The Animals, but it was turned down, so the Kinks released their own version with guitarist Dave Davies on lead vocals. This went against the norm where each brother usually sang songs they had written themselves. Later performances of the song were sung by Ray, with Dave providing backing vocals and Eric Clapton influenced guitar solos. Both the Davies brothers continue to perform the song in their solo concerts.

my guess is "i'm not like everybody else" or "come on now"?

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triceratops

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stonehearted
But, ironically, Dave now has more net worth than his brother Ray, who is notoriously tight with his money.

This is amazing. Any details on how authoring Death of a Clown (yes he wrote-sang others) translates into higher networth. It seems plausible but Ray has written more so more royalties

I've no idea. I'm puzzled by that stat myself, but it appears to be true that Dave has more than 30% higher net worth than Ray (Dave: $3.5 million; Ray: $2.6 million).

Death of a Clown was a big international hit--top 5 in the UK as well as top 5 in three other European countries, their last single until Lola to have that kind of wide-reaching success. His other solo 1967 single Susannah's Still Alive also charted with reasonable success in five European countries, going from top 30 to top 10 depending on the country.

The song also brought him more publishing in 1998 with a cover version by Charles and the White Trash European Blues Connection (sung by Arno): [www.wat.tv]





Susannah's Still Alive was covered in 1988 and released as a single by The Cardiacs, and also included on a Kinks tribute album (Shangri-La - A Tribute to The Kinks), so that's still more publishing. That Cardiacs lead singer sounds like a Dave Davies clone.





But still that wouldn't explain it. Ray has been touring regularly since the late 90s--of course, when he tours with that huge choir like he did recently he has to pay them all. And I believe he has also invested his own money in such film projects as Return To Waterloo. Plus he has a couple of failed marriages behind him, both of which resulted in children.

So I don't know. I'll have to re-read a couple of Kinks biographies, the clues are out there somewhere.

No way Dave is worth anything close to Ray. And from what I've heard, Dave isn't anywhere near a millionaire, dollar or pounds sterling.

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roryfaninva
No way Dave is worth anything close to Ray. And from what I've heard, Dave isn't anywhere near a millionaire, dollar or pounds sterling.

Source:

Ray: [www.celebritynetworth.com]

Dave: [www.celebritynetworth.com]

I can't believe Dave's net worth comes even remotely close to Ray's. I would guess that Ray's made more off Van Halen alone than Dave's entire estate.

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From4tilLate
I can't believe Dave's net worth comes even remotely close to Ray's. I would guess that Ray's made more off Van Halen alone than Dave's entire estate.

You Really Got Me and Where Have All The Good Times Gone...you're probably right, were there any others too?

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treaclefingers

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From4tilLate
I can't believe Dave's net worth comes even remotely close to Ray's. I would guess that Ray's made more off Van Halen alone than Dave's entire estate.

You Really Got Me and Where Have All The Good Times Gone...you're probably right, were there any others too?

pretenders doing "stop your sobbing"

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keefriffhard4life

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treaclefingers

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From4tilLate
I can't believe Dave's net worth comes even remotely close to Ray's. I would guess that Ray's made more off Van Halen alone than Dave's entire estate.

You Really Got Me and Where Have All The Good Times Gone...you're probably right, were there any others too?

pretenders doing "stop your sobbing"

The Jam doing David Watts.

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ab

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keefriffhard4life

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treaclefingers

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From4tilLate
I can't believe Dave's net worth comes even remotely close to Ray's. I would guess that Ray's made more off Van Halen alone than Dave's entire estate.

You Really Got Me and Where Have All The Good Times Gone...you're probably right, were there any others too?

pretenders doing "stop your sobbing"

The Jam doing David Watts.

Let's see...Herman's Hermits had a hit with Ray's "Dandy." Bowie covered "Where Have All the Good Times Gone?" on "Pinups" which sold pretty well. "The Hard Way" was a single for the Knack and an album cut post "My Sharona" but probably made some bread.

Dave's "Living on a Thin Line" was used very prominently on "The Sopranos."

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stonehearted

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roryfaninva
No way Dave is worth anything close to Ray. And from what I've heard, Dave isn't anywhere near a millionaire, dollar or pounds sterling.

Source:

Ray: [www.celebritynetworth.com]

Dave: [www.celebritynetworth.com]

That site has Ray 2.5 million dollars and Dave at 3.5
If true you would think they would have a pretty large incentive to go out on tour as the Kinks. At least one last time. If Leonard Cohen can do it.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-12 10:45 by triceratops.

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triceratops

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stonehearted

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roryfaninva
No way Dave is worth anything close to Ray. And from what I've heard, Dave isn't anywhere near a millionaire, dollar or pounds sterling.

Source:

Ray: [www.celebritynetworth.com]

Dave: [www.celebritynetworth.com]

That site has Ray 2.5 million dollars and Dave at 3.5
If true you would think they would have a pretty large incentive to go out on tour as the Kinks. At least one last time. If Leonard Cohen can do it.......

Ah, but Leonard Cohen was forced to do it after losing millions to an unscrupulous manager. Plus he calls all the shots because it's just him.

The brothers are unwilling to compromise. If they can't agree on the Mick Avory issue, then they should each give halfway. Tour with their post 1985 drummer Bob Henrit--since they can't tour with their original bass player anyway, which would mean it would probably be Jim Rodford--and have Mick Avory on for a guest mini-set where he plays on two, three, or even four songs. That way they could just pick up where they left off with the same band that recorded To The Bone, but with Avory in as a special guest.

At this stage, the only thing that will get The Kinks back on tour is compromise. If they both remain as stubborn as they have been, then we can forget about ever seeing The Kinks again.

If it's not gonna be Avory and Dalton then i would like to see them use Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. Last man standing gets the box office takings

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ash
If it's not gonna be Avory and Dalton then i would like to see them use Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. Last man standing gets the box office takings

Would be better with Rodford and Henrit, imo. Sort of continuing where they left off. But I hope Mick will join. They should be old enough not to fight anymore!

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DandelionPowderman

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ash
If it's not gonna be Avory and Dalton then i would like to see them use Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. Last man standing gets the box office takings

Would be better with Rodford and Henrit, imo. Sort of continuing where they left off. But I hope Mick will join. They should be old enough not to fight anymore!

really not sure about that ! if Avory's involved as he damn well should be, Dave's not gonna know who to punch out first.

Yes, that's what I don't understand. Ray gave in to Dave's demands to replace Avory with Bob Henrit and kept with that line-up for 10 years. Why would Ray now be so adamant that it should be Avory to rejoin, when it still wouldn't be the original Kinks anyway, even if they managed to persuade Dalton to rejoin?

Then again, if Ray wants the Kinks to reform so badly, as he's been talking about for several years now, then why did he dissolve the band in the first place?

At least 20 years ago they could still enter a studio together, but their relationship has deteriorated to the extent that Dave can't even handle the thought of extensive studio time in the presence of Ray. And one of the conditions for getting back together on Ray's terms would be new music.

But according to one of Ray's interviews, any possible new music from The Kinks would, ironically, also be like picking up from where they left off. He mentioned that there are some outtakes and half-finished song ideas from the 80s, perhaps the Word Of Mouth era, that would add up to around 10 tracks or so. Ray said that he would like to work on those ideas and release it as a new Kinks album. So with that in mind, it would make perfect sense to go with the Gibbons-Rodford-Henrit line-up--particularly for live performance, as it was that line-up that sounded so magnificent on To The Bone.

Ray must have some vintage-era romanticized version of a revived Kinks in mind, because a few years ago when talking about reforming the band he kept hinting that it should be the original four and that there would have to be new music and that it would have to make sense. But, of course, he just waited around and then Pete Quaife passed on and every year that passes makes it seem less likely that it will happen.

You actually have to begin to wonder whether Ray really is serious about further Kinks activity, or whether he does it just to drum up excitement among the fans so that they'll back his solo projects.

A couple of years ago Dave made a very telling statement: "Every time Ray talks about reforming The Kinks and it gets to the point where we might actually do something, he goes on tour."

And if you look at the timeline of press statements where Ray or Dave or both are mentioning the possibility of The Kinks reforming and then look at Ray's touring schedule, you realize it's true.

Think of how much they could have gotten done in the several years since Ray has been talking about reforming the band, something like 7 years now. In the 7 years between 1977 and 1984 they recorded half a dozen studio albums. In their final 7 years of activity they recorded 2 studio albums, an EP, and a live album that included their final 2 studio tracks. In the last 7 years all they've done is talk about it--but at least there are the deluxe reissues, a new Dave solo album, and probably another Ray album at some point.

I refuse to be strung along anymore by such mind games. If you get your hopes up, they will only disappoint you. It's nothing more than talk. I am resolved to just be grateful for what there is to enjoy--the history, the reissues, the occasional new bursts of solo activity. But this same old pattern of talk of a reunion and then yet another falling out, this is just more big black smoke blowing down a dead end street, and I'm just not like everyone else, not as starstruck as the next wonderboy, and in the end they will not give the people what they want, for in their hatred they are forever scattered, so we should just be thankful for the days, those endless days they gave us, I'm thinking of the days....

Well I think this has evolved for a long time stonehearted. I think there has been a historical trend where Ray felt/feels he is the main man. The writer, singer, arranger. Hell he even had a nervous breakdown in the 60s, tied committing suicide. So I think when the Kinks were in vogue in the 80s and then again in the 90's he took it to heart that it was him. So many interviews with other rock stars who lauded Ray for his writing. And so many interviews and reviews bemoaning the fact The Kinks never got their due. Then X-Ray comes out and Ray does his solo tour and gets rave reviews, and this helped solidify his thinking that it is Ray. Not The Kinks, and was always Ray. Additionally, he probably reflected on the stormy relationship he had with his brother and that why bother. He can always get a pick up band who will do what he wants, revere him for being Ray Davies and play what he wants without any other voices clouding his vision. I do think Ray uses the rumors of a possible Kinks reunion to boost his solo career and get more press. I do think the brothers have long unsettled issues, and Ray has a close pathological need for attention. Things don't look great for a reunion, and realistically I a not so sure it would be that big of a financial success. The Kinks are still mostly on the fringes, and don't have a wide appeal. Sad, but true, and I just don't think there are the numbers that would make it a deal they couldn't refuse.

To be fair to Ray, he's absolutely not wrong. He wrote all the major songs and yes its a band but he was the main guy. He really shouldn't feel bad for feeling that way IMO. I love Dave and he's a great underrated guitarist, but it does sound like he got a little more full of himself than he should. Without Ray, he would be nowhere because he didn't have the songwriter abilities. Obviously they work best as a unit, and I greatly value the importance of a "band", but head and shoulders Ray is the most important. Dave should obviously have a say, but he should know his place. Ray is definitely more a draw when he's with "The Kinks" because I want to see him with Dave and Mick, but he's not unreasonable with his thinking. Maybe as much as Dave wanted it to be, the Kinks were NEVER a Jagger/Richards type thing.

Yeah, my post wasn't meant to say who is right or wrong. That is never an advisable thing to do when dealing with family issues. They both complement each other ver well. While Dave is not in the same league as a song writer, I do thing his virtuoso guitar playing had a big role to play in Ray writing songs. And I am sure Dave did a lot of listening and suggesting when Ray would come to him with a song. One thing that has always struck me as interesting and an example of the love Dave had with Ray's words, and perhaps even some contributions is how he knows all the lyrics and sings with Ray with such symbiotic passion.

It is true that Ray wrote most all of the songs and that the career of The Kinks evolved because of the directions Ray went in as a songwriter.

However, regarding their all-important breakthrough, those distorted power chord opening riffs of You Really Got Me and All Day And All Night are what made their reputation and what they can lay claim to in terms of guitar sound/band innovation as having done something specifically important first before any other band.

Because without Dave's input, sure, Ray would have written You Really Got Me, but it would have sounded as a slow blues with a touch of ragtime, which is what I believe was the original arrangement before Dave added his signature touches with the little green amp.

Sure, it wouldn't be a big draw, but in terms of British Invasion bands of the mid-60s, The Kinks always have and always will be a part of my favorite "big four".

Agreed. I am selling Dave a little short, which is not my intent. He is amazing. I just think Ray has the well deserved fame (he should be looked as a genius) and as good as Dave is, I think he feels he's at this higher level than he actually is. His sound is instrumental to the Kinks, but he's not a Keith Richards where you had legendary riff after legendary riff. He was amazing in the beginning with You Really Got Me and All day And All Of The Night, but after that they are certainly not as memorable.

I spoke to Jim Rodford about this subject after a Zombies show last month and he doesn't think it's going to happen. He said he really enjoyed his time in the Kinks, but is real happy playing with the Zombies now. I assume, though, that he would be up for doing things with Ray and Dave if it happens, but he doesn't seem to even be looking at it as much of a possibility.

i love dave davies writing with the kinks though. "lincoln county" kicks ass

Hey- just like some sage souls here at iorr opined- why not use the Kast-Off Kinks for any 2014 Kinks shows? Now it appears they very well may be! Great news.

[blogs.wsj.com]

They'd be mad to miss such a giant marketing opportunity as their 50th anniversary.

He's always talking like this, but he'll likely be promoting another solo project next year instead.

Unless Bob Henrit is in the Kast-Off Kinks, I doubt that Dave will agree to it.

As much as I want this, I won't believe a Kinks reunion until Dave is actually on stage. I'm not surprised Ray has said this. Sounds like him. But Dave is really the loose cannon and until he really agrees and actually gets onstage with them, I think its best to keep expectations low.

What Ray did with his appearance at the Kast-Off Kinks show sounded awfully familiar, and I recall reading a story from thekinks.net from early 2011 where he had done the exact same thing: bounded onstage during a weekend Kast-Off show to join them for a song or two, then ended his cameo by hinting that The Kinks might reform before vaulting back off stage and disappearing out the door.

This "hinting" routine of his has been going on for several years and it's getting to be both comical and annoying, because inevitably fans are let down by the continued bickering and falling out between the brothers Davies. To think that they would squander such a lucrative payday as a 50th anniversary tour just because they can't agree on who the drummer should be. Well, they've shot themselves in the foot in even worse ways before.

Invariably, what these "hints" of Ray's do is keep extra fan scrutiny on his current activities, putting added spotlight emphasis on his solo projects as fans await the announcement of a Kinks reunion to be made, only to hear that the brothers have fallen out yet again over this and that.

It's probably better that they just leave it where they left off. A reunion would only result in a fistfight between Ray and Dave--most likely onstage, just for old times. Their relationship is far too volatile at this point to be put to the test of professionalism.

At least Jagger and Richards were able to put aside their ill will and perform together--but in their case, there would have been all those multi-millions of dollars to lose if they hadn't. Money talks, even if band members no longer do.

A Kinks reunion? Think of all the albums they could have recorded and the tours they could have done since Ray first began "hinting" about the possibility of a reunion some years ago.

Ray Davies is not the keeper of any flame, he is the dangler of the proverbial carrot.