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That's a whole different thing. Jagger loves everything done by himself, but he doesn't love everything done by others.
Don't do that.
It also showed them Clapton live in the context of more structured Beatles song/arrangement.
Clapton wouldn't work as a member of the stones, so best get the next similar available thing.
We're back on topic with this observation. I think you're right here. The disappearance of the Beatles changed the whole scene dramatically and had also a big impact on the Stones. But I don't see the second incarnation of the band in any relation to hard rock guitar god bands. I myself don't like Led Zep, Deep Purple and the like and I never have thought of the Stones as a hard rock band, neither in the studio nor on stage. With Taylor they became more melodic and versatile, especially on stage. Besides I think he inspired them (esp. Jagger) to explore some new territory (Moonlight Mile, Knocking, Winter for instance). Also the combination Richard/Taylor became an important part of their sound, certainly not only because of Taylor.
I think its unfair to judge Clapton on the Rock N Roll Circus, as by most accounts he was drunk and or stoned and didn't give a great performance. While George Harrison wouldn't be considered a better guitarist than Clapton in most circles, Harrison's solo on Yer Blues from the White Album kicks Claptons ahem chords on the Circus version.
Posted purely because it sucks Taylor's cock.
Considered it for this thread as well, but didn't wanna spoil your fun
Considered it for this thread as well, but didn't wanna spoil your fun[/quote]
Ah, poor Mick!
The "roots" they were getting back to were so different, though. To the Beatles, the "roots", all evident from the miles and miles of tapes of the Get Back sessions, are 50's rock - Elvis, Fats Domino, Sam Cooke, Little Richard, etc., with some Motown and girl group stuff thrown in. For the Stones, it was the blues - Slim Harpo and Fred McDowell and Reverend Wilkins and Robert Johnson - some of that stuff went back to the 1920's and 30's, but it's all timeless anyway. So, "Prodigal Son" flows seamlessly into "Stray Cat Blues", and "Love in Vain" sounds right at home after "Gimme Shelter", and the opening chords of "Stop Breaking Down" fit perfectly after the fade of "All Down the Line". Those older tracks were 40 years old by that time, but they fit because musically, lyrically and emotionally, the new songs were on the same continuum.
The Beatles never went there because they didn't "come from" that music or understand it. To the Beatles, "getting back" meant playing 50's oldies, or writing new songs that sounded like oldies. The Beatles' post-psychedelic period "rock" sounds dated for that reason (yeah, yeah, "Helter Skelter" and "Yer Blues" are exceptions), and their strongest work are the ballads ("Something", "Because", "Hey Jude", "Let it Be", "Long and Winding Road", "Across the Universe" ), and the amazing medley on Abbey Road. The Stones on the other hand, wrote only one truly classic ballad ("Wild Horses" ), and they never did a pop medley. That's why for me, comparing the White Album to Exile, or Abbey Road to Let it Bleed is utter nonsense. It's just music that comes from a completely different place.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-11 21:47 by drbryant.
Bad mix as I said earlier.
Shades of the circular chord progression from I Want You (She's So Heavy).
Dunno if Let It Loose is a good song as such, it's more that it's a great set of performances caught on tape. The chord progressions speak without the words, but everything is taken higher by Jaggers ace singing.
A wonderful mood piece.
Absolutely, but sometimes that's enough.
Keith's guitar and sound, the horns, the drum sound and the arrangement are all fantastic.
She's So Heavy goes the descending minor route, no?
I'd put Shine A Light in the mix too
I agree.
Sweet Black Angel as well. It's simple, brilliant, imo
Sommige dingen moet je "Los Laten" Kleer
__________________________
Look, Mr. kleerie! A song can be great even though Taylor isn't on it.
My Stones favourite is Moonlight Mile - nuff said
Keith's leslie'd guitar, Nicky's piano and the background vocals make "Let It Loose" an amazing track. But, with it's unusual song structure and earthy subject matter, I wouldn't call it a classic ballad.
How can possibly anything be better then Mick singing 'That's How Strong My Love Is'?
It has nothing to do with that. So much stuff before Taylor's time I love. But this song doesn't work so well for me. Sweet Black Angel isn't particularly a Taylor made song, isn't it? Still I do love it, one of the best songs on Exile.
It's tailor-made for Mick and Keith to sing, at least
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 11, 2013 18:25
Quote
His Majesty
Jagger also thought his own solo albums were great.
That's a whole different thing. Jagger loves everything done by himself, but he doesn't love everything done by others.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 11, 2013 18:27
Quote
His Majesty
Don't do that.
Re: beatles white album or stones exile on main st.
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 11, 2013 18:34
Quote
Doxa
That Jagger vetoed ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS also showed how careful they were for their credibility - probably the red and hot Who taught them a lesson. They wanted to sound great on stage.
- Doxa
It also showed them Clapton live in the context of more structured Beatles song/arrangement.
Clapton wouldn't work as a member of the stones, so best get the next similar available thing.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 11, 2013 18:37
Quote
kleermakerQuote
His Majesty
I see this as proof he was in the hot shot lead guitar category, you see it as being proof he isn't.
Yes indeed. In my view he is serving the song excellently by exploring its boundaries.
Re: beatles white album or stones exile on main st.
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 11, 2013 18:42
Quote
Doxa
Altogether I tend to think that the crossed roads of The Beatles and the Stones started to separate already in 1968 when both of them were 'going roots'. But like always The Stones seemed to go more extreme, and in fact, they build up a new career based on that 'experiment', whereas for The Beatles it started to be like the last 'novel' thing they were able to do, after doing about anything a rock and roll band can do. At least after that the Stones didn't seem to pay attention or even needed to care to what the Beatles were 'doing next'. I mean, the biggest document capturing what took place in their camp in 1969 was GET YER YA-YA'S OUT! Were they following The Beatles there? Or is there anything in the Beatles output equavalent to it? Hell not! Nearest is them calling it quits (that took place around the same time when YA-YA'S! was released).
- Doxa
We're back on topic with this observation. I think you're right here. The disappearance of the Beatles changed the whole scene dramatically and had also a big impact on the Stones. But I don't see the second incarnation of the band in any relation to hard rock guitar god bands. I myself don't like Led Zep, Deep Purple and the like and I never have thought of the Stones as a hard rock band, neither in the studio nor on stage. With Taylor they became more melodic and versatile, especially on stage. Besides I think he inspired them (esp. Jagger) to explore some new territory (Moonlight Mile, Knocking, Winter for instance). Also the combination Richard/Taylor became an important part of their sound, certainly not only because of Taylor.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 11, 2013 18:49
Loads of rock bands had melodic lead playing in them during that time, also it's not that the stones became full on rock, but they certainly stepped closer to it.
Taylor came from the whole Bluesbreakers lead guitar hero thing and he carried some of that over in to the stones. Even by 1973 there is still some Claptonesque influences in is playing.
Taylor came from the whole Bluesbreakers lead guitar hero thing and he carried some of that over in to the stones. Even by 1973 there is still some Claptonesque influences in is playing.
Re: beatles white album or stones exile on main st.
Posted by:
Happy Jack
()
Date: November 11, 2013 19:19
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
That Jagger vetoed ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS also showed how careful they were for their credibility - probably the red and hot Who taught them a lesson. They wanted to sound great on stage.
- Doxa
It also showed them Clapton live in the context of more structured Beatles song/arrangement.
Clapton wouldn't work as a member of the stones, so best get the next similar available thing.
I think its unfair to judge Clapton on the Rock N Roll Circus, as by most accounts he was drunk and or stoned and didn't give a great performance. While George Harrison wouldn't be considered a better guitarist than Clapton in most circles, Harrison's solo on Yer Blues from the White Album kicks Claptons ahem chords on the Circus version.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 11, 2013 19:49
You have completely misunderstood my post.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 11, 2013 19:51
Quote
kleermaker
A very recent article about Beatles and Stones rivalry and cooperation:
[www.nydailynews.com]
Posted purely because it sucks Taylor's cock.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 11, 2013 20:39
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
<Many a vocal line gets smothered by it.>
I reckon kleerie rather will say "gets inspired by it>
Well, I just saw this related post on another thread.Quote
DandelionPowderman
... the wanking fest JJF from L&G. At least Keith and Ronnie take their solo spots, instead of destroying Mick's singing...
Considered it for this thread as well, but didn't wanna spoil your fun
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 11, 2013 21:10
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DandelionPowderman
... the wanking fest JJF from L&G. At least Keith and Ronnie take their solo spots, instead of destroying Mick's singing...
Considered it for this thread as well, but didn't wanna spoil your fun
[/quote]Ah, poor Mick!
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 11, 2013 21:15
Are you content not hearing the riff, and only getting pieces of the vocals during the verses and choruses? The guitar mix is so uneven it should be prohibited by law
Re: beatles white album or stones exile on main st.
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: November 11, 2013 21:44
Quote
Doxa
Altogether I tend to think that the crossed roads of The Beatles and the Stones started to separate already in 1968 when both of them were 'going back to roots'.
The "roots" they were getting back to were so different, though. To the Beatles, the "roots", all evident from the miles and miles of tapes of the Get Back sessions, are 50's rock - Elvis, Fats Domino, Sam Cooke, Little Richard, etc., with some Motown and girl group stuff thrown in. For the Stones, it was the blues - Slim Harpo and Fred McDowell and Reverend Wilkins and Robert Johnson - some of that stuff went back to the 1920's and 30's, but it's all timeless anyway. So, "Prodigal Son" flows seamlessly into "Stray Cat Blues", and "Love in Vain" sounds right at home after "Gimme Shelter", and the opening chords of "Stop Breaking Down" fit perfectly after the fade of "All Down the Line". Those older tracks were 40 years old by that time, but they fit because musically, lyrically and emotionally, the new songs were on the same continuum.
The Beatles never went there because they didn't "come from" that music or understand it. To the Beatles, "getting back" meant playing 50's oldies, or writing new songs that sounded like oldies. The Beatles' post-psychedelic period "rock" sounds dated for that reason (yeah, yeah, "Helter Skelter" and "Yer Blues" are exceptions), and their strongest work are the ballads ("Something", "Because", "Hey Jude", "Let it Be", "Long and Winding Road", "Across the Universe" ), and the amazing medley on Abbey Road. The Stones on the other hand, wrote only one truly classic ballad ("Wild Horses" ), and they never did a pop medley. That's why for me, comparing the White Album to Exile, or Abbey Road to Let it Bleed is utter nonsense. It's just music that comes from a completely different place.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-11-11 21:47 by drbryant.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 11, 2013 21:48
Let It Loose is also just as good as many of the Beatles ballads, imo.
Otherwise, I agree totally.
Otherwise, I agree totally.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 11, 2013 23:06
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Are you content not hearing the riff, and only getting pieces of the vocals during the verses and choruses? The guitar mix is so uneven it should be prohibited by law
Bad mix as I said earlier.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 11, 2013 23:10
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Let It Loose is also just as good as many of the Beatles ballads, imo.
Otherwise, I agree totally.
Shades of the circular chord progression from I Want You (She's So Heavy).
Dunno if Let It Loose is a good song as such, it's more that it's a great set of performances caught on tape. The chord progressions speak without the words, but everything is taken higher by Jaggers ace singing.
A wonderful mood piece.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 11, 2013 23:47
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
Let It Loose is also just as good as many of the Beatles ballads, imo.
Otherwise, I agree totally.
Shades of the circular chord progression from I Want You (She's So Heavy).
Dunno if Let It Loose is a good song as such, it's more that it's a great set of performances caught on tape. The chord progressions speak without the words, but everything is taken higher by Jaggers ace singing.
A wonderful mood piece.
Absolutely, but sometimes that's enough.
Keith's guitar and sound, the horns, the drum sound and the arrangement are all fantastic.
She's So Heavy goes the descending minor route, no?
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 12, 2013 00:06
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Absolutely, but sometimes that's enough.
Keith's guitar and sound, the horns, the drum sound and the arrangement are all fantastic.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: November 12, 2013 00:21
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Let It Loose is also just as good as many of the Beatles ballads, imo.
Otherwise, I agree totally.
I'd put Shine A Light in the mix too
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 12, 2013 00:40
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
DandelionPowderman
Let It Loose is also just as good as many of the Beatles ballads, imo.
Otherwise, I agree totally.
I'd put Shine A Light in the mix too
I agree.
Sweet Black Angel as well. It's simple, brilliant, imo
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 12, 2013 01:09
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Let It Loose is just good.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: November 12, 2013 01:42
Quote
kleermaker
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Sommige dingen moet je "Los Laten" Kleer
__________________________
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: November 12, 2013 01:45
Quote
kleermaker
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 12, 2013 10:07
Quote
kleermaker
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Look, Mr. kleerie! A song can be great even though Taylor isn't on it.
My Stones favourite is Moonlight Mile - nuff said
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: November 12, 2013 11:43
Quote
kleermaker
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Keith's leslie'd guitar, Nicky's piano and the background vocals make "Let It Loose" an amazing track. But, with it's unusual song structure and earthy subject matter, I wouldn't call it a classic ballad.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 12, 2013 11:49
The mix on Let It Loose is magnificent.
If you listen closely in headphones, you'll find Mick's vocals often being off key and rather brutal.
On a stereo system, however, it merges perfectly with the rest of the music - and the result is maybe his best vocals ever
If you listen closely in headphones, you'll find Mick's vocals often being off key and rather brutal.
On a stereo system, however, it merges perfectly with the rest of the music - and the result is maybe his best vocals ever
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: November 12, 2013 16:36
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The mix on Let It Loose is magnificent.
If you listen closely in headphones, you'll find Mick's vocals often being off key and rather brutal.
On a stereo system, however, it merges perfectly with the rest of the music - and the result is maybe his best vocals ever
How can possibly anything be better then Mick singing 'That's How Strong My Love Is'?
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: November 12, 2013 16:42
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
kleermaker
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Look, Mr. kleerie! A song can be great even though Taylor isn't on it.
My Stones favourite is Moonlight Mile - nuff said
It has nothing to do with that. So much stuff before Taylor's time I love. But this song doesn't work so well for me. Sweet Black Angel isn't particularly a Taylor made song, isn't it? Still I do love it, one of the best songs on Exile.
Re: Beatles v Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 12, 2013 17:05
Quote
kleermakerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
kleermaker
Shine A Light and Sweet Black Angel are both ace songs.
Let It Loose is just good.
Look, Mr. kleerie! A song can be great even though Taylor isn't on it.
My Stones favourite is Moonlight Mile - nuff said
It has nothing to do with that. So much stuff before Taylor's time I love. But this song doesn't work so well for me. Sweet Black Angel isn't particularly a Taylor made song, isn't it? Still I do love it, one of the best songs on Exile.
It's tailor-made for Mick and Keith to sing, at least
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