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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-11 11:09 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
i believe it is a blended amount - i.e., the streams are counted as are the sales. not sure what equation they use to convert a paid stream to album sale equivalent.

How do you count repeated listens from a friend's Spotify account, for instance?

i think each listen of any song on the album, no matter from whose account, is counted as a fraction of an album sale.

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68
i believe it is a blended amount - i.e., the streams are counted as are the sales. not sure what equation they use to convert a paid stream to album sale equivalent.

How do you count repeated listens from a friend's Spotify account, for instance?

1,500 streams = 1 sale
Streams are included on the charts for a year now.

what's the surprise here?...a couple of nice ballads...earlier posts that KR could front a 60-90 minute show are difficult to believe...saw Hyde Park show on showtime again this weekend....by the latter half of the documentary they barely showed KR playing his guitar...

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-11 11:09 by DandelionPowderman.

great...glad you enjoyed JJF...that really set the bar.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-11 11:09 by DandelionPowderman.

With all this hulabaloo over sales equating success, etc, it got me to thinking last night when I was reviewing and perusing through an old art history book as I usually do on a late Sunday evening.

I happened to get to a section on good old Vincent Van Gogh (one of my favorite artists of all time), when it dawned on me.
According to the historians, he literally sold only ONE painting during his lifetime the poor old fella. That equates to approximately .001% 'chart success' if you will (and if my math is correct ). But today Van Gogh paintings fetch tens of millions of dollars, are respected almost universally, are collected in the worlds greatest museums, and he even has an entire museum dedicated solely to himself - the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. The highest price paid for a Van Gogh painting - Portrait of Dr. Gachet - sold for 82.5 million in 1990, and is now estimated at $149.4 million. Do collectors, curators, and art lovers base their appreciation on how many paintings he sold during his lifetime? Hell no - he sold ONE for crying out loud! (Keith has obviously done way better than that). As I stated before, charts, sales, and stats have nothing to do with the quality of an artists output and how their art will be remembered in the big picture. Fear not all you statisticians scratching your head with disappointment regarding current sales - when all is said and done, Keith's music will be highly appreciated for centuries to come.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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GasLightStreet

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HMS
Solo-albums shouldnt be compared to Stones-albums anyway. When the dust once has settled it will be clear for anybody to see that Crosseyed Heart is a good solid album, nothing more, nothing less. You might say it is much better than expected but you cant say it is a masterpiece that stands alongside with the Stones´ best albums (LIB, BB, SF, Undercover, DW..).

More or less Keith stuck to his old formula adding nothing new and that is exactly what the Stones will do if they should indeed record a new album.

The Stones' last masterpieces was TATTOO YOU. The list of Stones masterpieces does not include UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK nor anything after. Only a lunatic would think that is true. A true Stones fan knows better.

Second of all, as it's been pointed out, who else would Keith be compared to? Of course if it's good it will be compared to Stones albums. As of right now CROSSEYED HEART is better than the following Stones albums:

12X5
BETWEEN THE BUTTONS
THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES REQUEST
IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL
BLACK AND BLUE
EMOTIONAL RESCUE
UNDERCOVER
DIRTY WORK
STEEL WHEELS
VOODOO LOUNGE
BRIDGES TO BABYLON
A BIGGER BANG

It's also better than any of Jagger's solo albums.

What it can be compared to as well is TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER.

Any Stones fan would be lucky if they stuck to Keith's "old formula adding nothing new". Although if you don't count new songs as "new" then you need to go get dropped on your head again to right that goofy snow globe you be wearin'.

No,it's not.
But yes, it's certainly better than Talk is cheap and Main offender.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-07 18:18 by GetYerAngie.

Listened to it once again yesterday... good flow until track eight, then it starts getting a bit boring here and there, imo. Personally I dont like most of the backing vocals... Goodnight Irene is so damn booooooooooooooring... 7 out of 10 stars is my final judgement carved in stone.

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Hairball
As I stated before, charts, sales, and stats have nothing to do with the quality of an artists output and how their art will be remembered in the big picture. Fear not all you statisticians scratching your head with disappointment regarding current sales - when all is said and done, Keith's music will be highly appreciated for centuries to come.

Yes of course chart sales have little to do with quality but they are one of the measures we have of just how many people believe in that quality enough to spring for the record. I think his numbers are pretty impressive for this day and age actually.

The comparisons to Van Gogh are a bit of a stretch. Everybody knows who Keith is, his name recognition and Stones popularity assure that everyone who wants his record knows it's available. It's nice to think there may be some sort of future renaissance for Keith's music, maybe in the way there was for Robert Johnson. Who knows really, I tend to think Keith audience these days is pretty well defined, mostly existing Stones/Keith Richards fans. I certainly don't see my kids or many of the younger generation reaching out for Keith's music, in fact I would guess their are very few people who bought this record as their introduction to Keith Richards. The ability to draw in a new audience today is certainly one of the signs of it's ability to do so in the future, imo.

No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

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GetYerAngie

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GasLightStreet

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HMS
Solo-albums shouldnt be compared to Stones-albums anyway. When the dust once has settled it will be clear for anybody to see that Crosseyed Heart is a good solid album, nothing more, nothing less. You might say it is much better than expected but you cant say it is a masterpiece that stands alongside with the Stones´ best albums (LIB, BB, SF, Undercover, DW..).

More or less Keith stuck to his old formula adding nothing new and that is exactly what the Stones will do if they should indeed record a new album.

The Stones' last masterpieces was TATTOO YOU. The list of Stones masterpieces does not include UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK nor anything after. Only a lunatic would think that is true. A true Stones fan knows better.

Second of all, as it's been pointed out, who else would Keith be compared to? Of course if it's good it will be compared to Stones albums. As of right now CROSSEYED HEART is better than the following Stones albums:

12X5
BETWEEN THE BUTTONS
THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES REQUEST
IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL
BLACK AND BLUE
EMOTIONAL RESCUE
UNDERCOVER
DIRTY WORK
STEEL WHEELS
VOODOO LOUNGE
BRIDGES TO BABYLON
A BIGGER BANG

It's also better than any of Jagger's solo albums.

What it can be compared to as well is TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER.

Any Stones fan would be lucky if they stuck to Keith's "old formula adding nothing new". Although if you don't count new songs as "new" then you need to go get dropped on your head again to right that goofy snow globe you be wearin'.

No,it's not.
But yes, it's certainly better than Talk is cheap and Main offender.

My intention was not to evaluate CROSSEYED HEART before I have heard it 25 times. I think I have slowly arrived into the 17th time.

However, also I have to react to that comparison from GasLightStreet, even if my response then is still a little premature.

At the moment I am certain though that I will not later arrive at a conclusion that places CROSSEYED HEART above albums in bold. [I associate my verdict on 12 X 5 with German Decca's a little more adequate compilation, AROUND AND AROUND.] At least those albums are to me better than CROSSEYED HEART, maybe other titles of the mentionned as well. And I clearly prefer TALK IS CHEAP to CROSSEYED HEART, and I believe that it will stay that way with me. In addition, I can't agree that CROSSEYED HEART surpasses any Mick Jagger album.

TATTOO YOU is not in any way a masterpiece in my estimation. Neither do I consider it great. For instance, UNDERCOVER, on the other hand, I see as great in the context of the Rolling Stones music, their latest great, but I may admit that I can't claim it to be groundbreaking in the historic development of rock and pop music.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-07 19:39 by Witness.

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HMS
Listened to it once again yesterday... good flow until track eight, then it starts getting a bit boring here and there, imo. Personally I dont like most of the backing vocals... Goodnight Irene is so damn booooooooooooooring... 7 out of 10 stars is my final judgement carved in stone.

Nice

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Naturalust
The ability to draw in a new audience today is certainly one of the signs of it's ability to do so in the future, imo.

Unless one has the ability to predict the future, it's really hard to tell imo.

But I'm of the belief that it will never fully go away in the first place and will age like a fine wine.
Appreciated for the great art that it is by perhaps a more sophisticated audience - similar to Van Gogh's paintings.

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Naturalust
The comparisons to Van Gogh are a bit of a stretch. Everybody knows who Keith is, his name recognition and Stones popularity assure that everyone who wants his record knows it's available.

In comparison with Van Gogh, Keith has a jump start by all of the factors you mention. He won't have to be 'discovered' posthumously, as there will already be a huge fanbase via his solo recordings and as a member of the Rolling Stones. In that sense, he already has an advantage and is ahead of the game. Can't hurt his chances of being even more appreciated in the future, it can only help imo.

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Naturalust
It's nice to think there may be some sort of future renaissance for Keith's music, maybe in the way there was for Robert Johnson. Who knows really.

If one is of the belief that it will eventually fade from memory (as you seem to be saying/prediciting), there's no doubt about it imo.
But again, Keith (do in part to being a member of the Rolling Stones) will not fade away any time soon.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Well that is a bit disappointing but not really unexpected. Interesting to see Dylan got a nomination for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album with Shadows in the Night.

The nominations in the Best Americana Album category where most of us thought Keith would fit best are:

Brandi Carlile, The Firewatcher's Daughter
Emmylou Harris & Rodney Crowell, The Traveling Kind
Jason Isbell, Something More Than Free
The Mavericks, Mono
Punch Brothers, The Phosphorescent Blues

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Bummer - some of us had sincere hopes that it would.
Oh well, as someone else mentioned the Grammy's are a quagmire of politics and elitism...almost as bad as the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Keith evidently didn't fit in with their agenda.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Naturalust

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Well that is a bit disappointing but not really unexpected. Interesting to see Dylan got a nomination for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album with Shadows in the Night.

The nominations in the Best Americana Album category where most of us thought Keith would fit best are:

Brandi Carlile, The Firewatcher's Daughter
Emmylou Harris & Rodney Crowell, The Traveling Kind
Jason Isbell, Something More Than Free
The Mavericks, Mono
Punch Brothers, The Phosphorescent Blues

Can anyone please define for me "Americana" in this context?
Would a David Bowie album be eligible, for example?

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Wow, you can get a Grammy award for that? Puttin' together boxes?

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jlowe

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Naturalust

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Well that is a bit disappointing but not really unexpected. Interesting to see Dylan got a nomination for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album with Shadows in the Night.

The nominations in the Best Americana Album category where most of us thought Keith would fit best are:

Brandi Carlile, The Firewatcher's Daughter
Emmylou Harris & Rodney Crowell, The Traveling Kind
Jason Isbell, Something More Than Free
The Mavericks, Mono
Punch Brothers, The Phosphorescent Blues

Can anyone please define for me "Americana" in this context?
Would a David Bowie album be eligible, for example?

Well I guess the best description with reference to the Grammy's came from them in 2011:

"Americana is contemporary music that incorporates elements of various American roots music styles, including country, roots-rock, folk, bluegrass, R&B and blues, resulting in a distinctive roots-oriented sound that lives in a world apart from the pure forms of the genres upon which it may draw. While acoustic instruments are often present and vital, Americana also often uses a full electric band."

It is distinguished from (and broken off from) the Contemporary Folk category by it's specific use of electric instruments.

As far as a David Bowie album being considered I would say based on what I've heard of his new record so far.....not a chance.

Aah thanks very much.....so maybe a Rolling Stones nomination for the 2017 Grammys then.
If the rumoured opus is released before the end of Sept 2016, that is.

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georgelicks

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Hairball
it's nice to see it has done as well as it has (although you probably think it hasn't done as well as it could have)D

The album has sold ok in Europe but very bad in the U.S, I mean 70k sold in the States is very poor for an album and artist with loads of media coverage there, front cover of Rolling Stone and Billboard, interviews on TV and radio and, most importantly, his first solo album on 23 years and no Stones album on 10 years.
Main Offender was a flop too but it was after only 3 years of the multi-platinum Steel Wheels, 1 year after Flashpoint and only 4 years after Talk Is Cheap.
CH is his best album IMO, it deserved at least twice of the total sales.

Interesting that the only South American country on the charts list is Argentina.

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jlowe

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georgelicks

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Hairball
it's nice to see it has done as well as it has (although you probably think it hasn't done as well as it could have)D

The album has sold ok in Europe but very bad in the U.S, I mean 70k sold in the States is very poor for an album and artist with loads of media coverage there, front cover of Rolling Stone and Billboard, interviews on TV and radio and, most importantly, his first solo album on 23 years and no Stones album on 10 years.
Main Offender was a flop too but it was after only 3 years of the multi-platinum Steel Wheels, 1 year after Flashpoint and only 4 years after Talk Is Cheap.
CH is his best album IMO, it deserved at least twice of the total sales.

Interesting that the only South American country on the charts list is Argentina.

That is interesting, those Argentinian's never fail to impress me! It would be interesting to have a demographic of who is buying this record. Like I said earlier I have a strong feeling it would be quite narrow.

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35love

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Wow, you can get a Grammy award for that? Puttin' together boxes?

lol...maybe I'll get one. I can box with the best of them, really good at slapping down the packing tape.

I guess the Grammy committee figures there's an art to putting together and decorating a decent anthology set, but would it not qualify if it came in a big envelope instead of a box?

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latebloomer

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35love

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Wow, you can get a Grammy award for that? Puttin' together boxes?

lol...maybe I'll get one. I can box with the best of them, really good at slapping down the packing tape.

I guess the Grammy committee figures there's an art to putting together and decorating a decent anthology set, but would it not qualify if it came in a big envelope instead of a box?

Hey man ease up on the unspoken heros behind the scenes, that's what the Grammy's are mostly about for me! The musical artists get plenty of limelight, it's quite nice to see so many others get the recognition they deserve.

It's a great feeling when the packaging can hold your attention past the first couple songs as you listen to a new record, harder to do in the age of CD's than it was with vinyl albums for sure.

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Naturalust

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latebloomer

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35love

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DeanGoodman
No Grammy nominations for Keith. But the Sticky Fingers art directors got a nomination for best boxed package.

Wow, you can get a Grammy award for that? Puttin' together boxes?

lol...maybe I'll get one. I can box with the best of them, really good at slapping down the packing tape.

I guess the Grammy committee figures there's an art to putting together and decorating a decent anthology set, but would it not qualify if it came in a big envelope instead of a box?

Hey man ease up on the unspoken heros behind the scenes, that's what the Grammy's are mostly about for me! The musical artists get plenty of limelight, it's quite nice to see so many others get the recognition they deserve.

It's a great feeling when the packaging can hold your attention past the first couple songs as you listen to a new record, harder to do in the age of CD's than it was with vinyl albums for sure.

Agree, NL. I am in awe of anyone with that kind of artistic talent...I couldn't draw my way out of a paper box.

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GetYerAngie

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GasLightStreet

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HMS
Solo-albums shouldnt be compared to Stones-albums anyway. When the dust once has settled it will be clear for anybody to see that Crosseyed Heart is a good solid album, nothing more, nothing less. You might say it is much better than expected but you cant say it is a masterpiece that stands alongside with the Stones´ best albums (LIB, BB, SF, Undercover, DW..).

More or less Keith stuck to his old formula adding nothing new and that is exactly what the Stones will do if they should indeed record a new album.

The Stones' last masterpieces was TATTOO YOU. The list of Stones masterpieces does not include UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK nor anything after. Only a lunatic would think that is true. A true Stones fan knows better.

Second of all, as it's been pointed out, who else would Keith be compared to? Of course if it's good it will be compared to Stones albums. As of right now CROSSEYED HEART is better than the following Stones albums:

12X5
BETWEEN THE BUTTONS
THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES REQUEST
IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL
BLACK AND BLUE
EMOTIONAL RESCUE
UNDERCOVER
DIRTY WORK
STEEL WHEELS
VOODOO LOUNGE
BRIDGES TO BABYLON
A BIGGER BANG

It's also better than any of Jagger's solo albums.

What it can be compared to as well is TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER.

Any Stones fan would be lucky if they stuck to Keith's "old formula adding nothing new". Although if you don't count new songs as "new" then you need to go get dropped on your head again to right that goofy snow globe you be wearin'.

No,it's not.
But yes, it's certainly better than Talk is cheap and Main offender.

It is. Have you listened to it? If you had you'd understand.

I dont think CH is "better" than the above mentioned albums - most of these albums (even the weaker ones like SW, B2B, VL...) have a couple of songs on it that are outstanding good and much better than most CH-tracks.

But it is maybe correct to say that CH is better than TSMR or Between The Buttons.

Better than She´s The Boss, Primitive Cool, Goddess? Yes.

Better than Wandering Spirit? No.

Better than Talk Is Cheap? No.
Better than Main Offender? Maybe.


Better than Undercover or Dirty Work? No, never!

Does anyone else just not care what it's better than?

(Mind you, I haven't been counting the number of times I've listened to it, so what do I know?)

Does Jamaica have a record buying public? No mention of sales there. Surely their tastes run broader than reggae. Small population of course.