Tell Me :
Talk
Wow, that's great, Max!
Yeah, it was a good tour for sure. The Oslo-show is one of the best shows I've seen - and the new songs worked really great
Back when tickets were basically free
compared to today's prices,
I think they were only about 50 bucks each... or maybe I just had
more money back then.
I remember sleeping on the street to get tickets for the Urban Jungle-tour. There was a long line of sleeping bags in downtown Oslo that summer. We spent three days camping outside of the arena, and got first in line. Good times, really good times!
This is a very good description that I feel right at home with - beautiful
I think that's a bit strong, Doxa. I don't hate 'How Can I Stop', because it doesn't inspire enough emotion from within me to have a reaction as extreme as hate. Not many Stones songs do (apart from maybe very bombastic Jagger delivered tracks like 'Sex Drive' and 'Suck On The Jugular' perhaps). 'How Can I Stop' is just one of those songs where the intentions are good, which is often the case with Keith, but the delivery just doesn't quite match what he's aiming for in my opinion. Keith aims very much for soulfullness, and to a large degree the backing musicians manage to supply that, within the effectively soulful backing. However, the soul, for me, is merely a gesture, because somewhere along the line, be it with regards to melody, or Keith's vocal interpretation, it all falls a little flat. In that genre, for me, Keith has done better, especially with 'Slipping Away', which i believe is a little more melodic, and where the backing music/vocals come together with Keith's lead vocal most effectively. In other words, they compliment each other, in a way they fail to do on 'How Can I Stop'. Perhaps for me, 'Losing My Touch' is a more extreme example still, even than 'How Can I Stop', of Keith picking random phrases and/or inflections out of the air, almost spontaneously, and hoping for the best. 'Slipping Away', for me, is just so much more measured, by comparison.
As i have stated earlier, i consider 'Start Me Up', Worried About You' and 'Waiting On A Friend' to be the last great Stones songs. I believe they supply the framework for TATTOO YOU.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 10:52 by Edward Twining.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 12:07 by kuenzer.
You don't find this one great? Man, you have high standards!
That's cool - I dig that song - but who is that second video? Seeing that the Stones essentially ignored that album I mean... must be someone covering it...
I believe Keith to be as great as Dylan (or he at least was in his prime) but at their best they both emphasise different music aspects. The greatness of Keith in his prime, i feel is his subtlelty. It's the insistant groove to 'Tumbling Dice', for example, which can really lock into the brain over repeated listens, which in turn gives Jagger a platform on which to demonstate lyrically/vocally what he has to offer. Even when listening to a rock track like 'Brown Sugar' or 'Jumpin' Jack Flash', Keith used a little more discretion (certainly when compared with the later more extravagant rockers) in his approach. For example, the tasteful mixture of acoustic and electric guitars on 'Brown Sugar', is very telling whereas some artists would perhaps go the whole hog, in attempting to make the track 'heavy'. I think there's a real economy within Keith's playing, which gives plenty of space, where the groove becomes of primary importance, rather than, for example what would amount to clutter with some artists. This in turn creates the more funky and sexual backbone to so many of the Stones songs. In a sense, i think of Keith as one of the most funky guitarists ever, without actually relating fully to the funk genre. Keith has never been a flashy musician.
Where Keith and Dylan meet musically is where they both share the desire to keep things simple and unpretentious, which is perhaps where they differ a little from Jagger.
Yes, i was surprised by that one,sf37, because i didn't think the Stones any longer had it in them. I think elements of the song are very good, but vocally, Jagger's heavy handed approach, for me, makes the song ultimately hard to bear. Not right the way through, i might add, but at the song's climax, as he approaches the song title.
Well, I can answer that on my behalf. They are still the best live rhythm&blues band, and they still often sound like a if they are jamming, even on age-old songs like Midnight Rambler for instance. They haven't lost that basic R&B groove.
And of course they have made a few new songs which are "worthwhile", but they are not "great".
I like the definition camper88 gave of the word "great": 1) "new level" (but still Stones feel) 2) great live 3) a challenge for the band 4) sinks in collective consciousness and 5) goosebumps. Although it's putting the bar very high. I think Tattoo You is a great album, but I am not sure any of its songs would be "great" according to that definition. "Waiting on a Friend" maybe, although I am not sure how that sounds live.
The best songs from the last 30 years however, never go a "new level", hardly ever work live, don't sound challenging and haven't entered any kind of "collective consciousness". Still, they are still much better than the output from most other rock bands. A song from the last 30 years that works great live is "You Got Me Rocking", but you would hardly call that challenging or original, would you?
I still listen to the Stones however, and follow what they do because I never found a band who came even close to their sound.
Jagger's vocals don't spoil the song for me but I do see where you're coming from, Edward. At some points in the song the vocals do tend to be a little over the top. But the tune itself is amazing!
Wait a second, I have a feeling, we have done this all before?
As I scratch my head...
The "surprise" element in this song is what is great about it.. Surely a "collective" achievement of the Stones - the "band". The "Stones" prove that they still have it in them. The "flaw" - is of course in the vocals and are to be individually attributed to Jagger. Interesting way to frame the discourse...
I can agree very much with all of this!That's how I feel as well.
Only reg. your last great songs I'm not so shure.
I also love many of ABB songs. Biggest Mistake, as well as some mentioned above ... It Won't Take Long, Laugh I Nearly Died, and I can't forget Infamy. And my 2 favorites: Rough Justice and This Place Is Empty!
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 20, 2013 10:02
Quote
Max'sKansasCityQuote
DandelionPowderman
Moon is up is a very nice song, often overlooked, imo.
Sometimes, when the Stones try something new - be it new styles, new ways of recording or the use of different instruments - they are being praised for it. Other times, it won't even get noticed...
I like that song too, heck I like most of VooDoo lounge.
I have so many many happy Stones memories related to that album and tour and those songs bring it all back. We traveled the heck out of that tour and it was always such an absolute blast. We even went to the Netherlands stayed in Amsterdam took the train to both shows in Nijmegen, even had part way back stage passes to get free beer and stay out of the rain and the passes put us in front of a barricade in front of the other 70,000 people, giving us plenty of dancing room to spare... it was so much fun, what a blast.
Wow, that's great, Max!
Yeah, it was a good tour for sure. The Oslo-show is one of the best shows I've seen - and the new songs worked really great
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: September 20, 2013 10:06
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Max'sKansasCityQuote
DandelionPowderman
Moon is up is a very nice song, often overlooked, imo.
Sometimes, when the Stones try something new - be it new styles, new ways of recording or the use of different instruments - they are being praised for it. Other times, it won't even get noticed...
I like that song too, heck I like most of VooDoo lounge.
I have so many many happy Stones memories related to that album and tour and those songs bring it all back. We traveled the heck out of that tour and it was always such an absolute blast. We even went to the Netherlands stayed in Amsterdam took the train to both shows in Nijmegen, even had part way back stage passes to get free beer and stay out of the rain and the passes put us in front of a barricade in front of the other 70,000 people, giving us plenty of dancing room to spare... it was so much fun, what a blast.
Wow, that's great, Max!
Yeah, it was a good tour for sure. The Oslo-show is one of the best shows I've seen - and the new songs worked really great
Back when tickets were basically free
compared to today's prices,I think they were only about 50 bucks each... or maybe I just had
more money back then.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 20, 2013 10:14
Quote
Max'sKansasCityQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Max'sKansasCityQuote
DandelionPowderman
Moon is up is a very nice song, often overlooked, imo.
Sometimes, when the Stones try something new - be it new styles, new ways of recording or the use of different instruments - they are being praised for it. Other times, it won't even get noticed...
I like that song too, heck I like most of VooDoo lounge.
I have so many many happy Stones memories related to that album and tour and those songs bring it all back. We traveled the heck out of that tour and it was always such an absolute blast. We even went to the Netherlands stayed in Amsterdam took the train to both shows in Nijmegen, even had part way back stage passes to get free beer and stay out of the rain and the passes put us in front of a barricade in front of the other 70,000 people, giving us plenty of dancing room to spare... it was so much fun, what a blast.
Wow, that's great, Max!
Yeah, it was a good tour for sure. The Oslo-show is one of the best shows I've seen - and the new songs worked really great
Back when tickets were basically free
I think they were only about 50 bucks each... or maybe I just had
more money back then.
I remember sleeping on the street to get tickets for the Urban Jungle-tour. There was a long line of sleeping bags in downtown Oslo that summer. We spent three days camping outside of the arena, and got first in line. Good times, really good times!
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 20, 2013 10:19
Okay, now a serious candidate for a "Last Great Song". The critic in me says that it is 'almost great' or 'very good', but any case, sometimes this is a matter of semantics, right? Wasn't it that what "great" means in America equals "not bad at all" in England...
Here is serious, well-argued criticism:
I think Edward is spot on in describing Keith's way to write his late-day songs, especially ballads or slow songs (actually Keith himself put it in words in LIFE). And there is that Dylanisque purity in him (of which I always admire). I am not so fond of his many late day songs done with this intuitive, sketchy, improvising manner, but I think here Keith actually succeeds in creating something memorable. I can understand the 'sleepy' effect Edward talks about, and the danger of boring the listener is evident. That's what I thought when I first heard the song: it doesn't go anywhere! The ending of the song sounded too long and artificial, even corny (yes, Dandie's comparison to "Moonlight Mile" is accurate).
But it has grown on me, and nowadays I find the atmosphere in the song simply capturing. It is not an "easy" song - one needs to have a certain mindset to get in its dreamy landscapes, but one one has that and gets in, oh man, one feels like taking part in a fascinating musical journey, which makes one hope that it never stops (and the over-emphasized ending now actually sounds appropriate way to do it).
I claimed above that "Winter" might be their most 'mature' song ever, but here we are not far, maybe not at all. Of all the late-day Stones material, I think basically Keith's late-day ballads are actually adding something to their musical legacy. Keith's best late-day songs actually gives us glimpses of how a greatest rock and roll band - which hs done everything and more - might truely grow up and still 'say' something, that is, to reflect what is going on their lifes. Jagger was in that route during the mid seventies - from GOATS HEAD SOUP to BLACK&BLUE - but then decided that 'no way he is going to get old and boring', and decided to not any longer show any signs of mortality. But Keith is different. I think "How Can I Stop" is a great manifestation of that: it both lyrically and musicalwise challenges us to accept the 'real' state of affairs, a window to true feelings and emotional landscapes of these middle-aged men getting to their seniour years. Something not for "kids". He is not actually far from what Bob Dylan did around the same time (TIME OUT OF MIND). I don't know - or care - what Keith had in his mind when making it, but that's a sign of a great artist; in your art one can express, almost subconsciously, emotions and things you probably could not put in words or by other means. He sounds so damn genuine in what he does - which is very exceptional in late-day Stones material. You just feel it. At least he moves me (and probably even more when I get more old...).
So for me, "How Can I Stop" is a rare mark of real greatness in the late-day Stones material, and I would rate it above the two 'very good' songs in BRIDGES TO BABYLON ("Out of Control" and "Saint of Me"), which, compared to "How Can I Stop", are rather typical or 'obvious' Stones songs, not adding anything substantive to what they have already said.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 10:29 by Doxa.
Here is serious, well-argued criticism:
Quote
Edward Twining
Yes, Dandelion, this is pretty much what i've been on about, a perfect example, in my opinion. Keith sort of meanders and mumbles his way through the song, trying to find some emotional connection by using a few random vocal inflections (at times!). I'm sure he did have a rough template of where the song was to go, and the backing music/vocals hints at a certain vibe in particular was being aimed for, and lyrically, i believe he had a certain number of lyrics fleshed out beforehand, but there's also a sense that he's making a lot of it up on the spot, too. However, for me it's too much a case of throw caution to the wind and see what happens. I do admire Keith though, in at least aiming in the right direction, with regard to not indulging in some of Jagger's musical pretentions. There's a purity with Keith that reminds me of Bob Dylan's later output, only Bob tends to do it so much better.
I think Edward is spot on in describing Keith's way to write his late-day songs, especially ballads or slow songs (actually Keith himself put it in words in LIFE). And there is that Dylanisque purity in him (of which I always admire). I am not so fond of his many late day songs done with this intuitive, sketchy, improvising manner, but I think here Keith actually succeeds in creating something memorable. I can understand the 'sleepy' effect Edward talks about, and the danger of boring the listener is evident. That's what I thought when I first heard the song: it doesn't go anywhere! The ending of the song sounded too long and artificial, even corny (yes, Dandie's comparison to "Moonlight Mile" is accurate).
But it has grown on me, and nowadays I find the atmosphere in the song simply capturing. It is not an "easy" song - one needs to have a certain mindset to get in its dreamy landscapes, but one one has that and gets in, oh man, one feels like taking part in a fascinating musical journey, which makes one hope that it never stops (and the over-emphasized ending now actually sounds appropriate way to do it).
I claimed above that "Winter" might be their most 'mature' song ever, but here we are not far, maybe not at all. Of all the late-day Stones material, I think basically Keith's late-day ballads are actually adding something to their musical legacy. Keith's best late-day songs actually gives us glimpses of how a greatest rock and roll band - which hs done everything and more - might truely grow up and still 'say' something, that is, to reflect what is going on their lifes. Jagger was in that route during the mid seventies - from GOATS HEAD SOUP to BLACK&BLUE - but then decided that 'no way he is going to get old and boring', and decided to not any longer show any signs of mortality. But Keith is different. I think "How Can I Stop" is a great manifestation of that: it both lyrically and musicalwise challenges us to accept the 'real' state of affairs, a window to true feelings and emotional landscapes of these middle-aged men getting to their seniour years. Something not for "kids". He is not actually far from what Bob Dylan did around the same time (TIME OUT OF MIND). I don't know - or care - what Keith had in his mind when making it, but that's a sign of a great artist; in your art one can express, almost subconsciously, emotions and things you probably could not put in words or by other means. He sounds so damn genuine in what he does - which is very exceptional in late-day Stones material. You just feel it. At least he moves me (and probably even more when I get more old...).
So for me, "How Can I Stop" is a rare mark of real greatness in the late-day Stones material, and I would rate it above the two 'very good' songs in BRIDGES TO BABYLON ("Out of Control" and "Saint of Me"), which, compared to "How Can I Stop", are rather typical or 'obvious' Stones songs, not adding anything substantive to what they have already said.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 10:29 by Doxa.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 20, 2013 10:31
Quote
Doxa
Okay, now a serious candidate for a "Last Great Song". The critic in me says that it is 'almost great' or 'very good', but any case, sometimes this is a matter of semantics, right? Wasn't it that what "great" means in America equals "not bad at all" in England...
Here is serious, well-argued criticism:Quote
Edward Twining
Yes, Dandelion, this is pretty much what i've been on about, a perfect example, in my opinion. Keith sort of meanders and mumbles his way through the song, trying to find some emotional connection by using a few random vocal inflections (at times!). I'm sure he did have a rough template of where the song was to go, and the backing music/vocals hints at a certain vibe in particular was being aimed for, and lyrically, i believe he had a certain number of lyrics fleshed out beforehand, but there's also a sense that he's making a lot of it up on the spot, too. However, for me it's too much a case of throw caution to the wind and see what happens. I do admire Keith though, in at least aiming in the right direction, with regard to not indulging in some of Jagger's musical pretentions. There's a purity with Keith that reminds me of Bob Dylan's later output, only Bob tends to do it so much better.
I think Edward is spot on in describing Keith's way to write his late-day songs, especially ballads or slow songs (actually Keith himself put it in words in LIFE). And there is that Dylanisque purity in him (of which I always admire). I am not so fond of his many late day songs done with this intuitive, sketchy, improvising manner, but I think here Keith actually succeeds in creating something memorable. I can understand the 'sleepy' effect Edward talks about, and the danger of boring the listener is evident. That's what I thought when I first heard the song: it doesn't go anywhere! The ending of the song sounded too long and artificial, even corny (yes, Dandie's comparison to "Moonlight Mile" is accurate).
But it has grown on me, and nowadays I find the atmosphere in the song simply capturing. It is not an "easy" song - one needs to have a certain mindset to get in its dreamy landscapes, but one one has that and gets in, oh man, one feels like taking part in a fascinating musical journey, which makes one hope that it never stops (and the over-emphasized ending now actually sounds appropriate way to do it).
I claimed above that "Winter" might be their most 'mature' song ever, but here we are not far, maybe not at all. Of all the late-day Stones material, I think basically Keith's late-day ballads are actually adding something to their musical legacy. Keith's best late-day songs actually gives us glimpses of how a greatest rock and roll band - which hs done everything and more - might truely grow up and still 'say' something, that is, to reflect what is going on their lifes. Jagger was in that route during the mid seventies - from GOATS HEAD SOUP to BLACK&BLUE - but then decided that 'no way he is going to get old and boring', and decided to not any longer show any signs of mortality. But Keith is different. I think "How Can I Stop" is a great manifestation of that: it both lyrically and musicalwise challenges us to accept the 'real' state of affairs, a window to true feelings and emotional landscapes of these middle-aged men getting to their seniour years. Something not for "kids". He is not actually far from what Bob Dylan did around the same time (TIME OUT OF MIND). I don't know - or care - what Keith had in his mind when making it, but that's a sign of a great artist; in your art one can express, almost subconsciously, emotions and things you probably could not put in words or by other means. He sounds so damn genuine in what he does - which is very exceptional in late-day Stones material. You just feel it. At least he moves me (and probably even more when I get more old...).
So for me, "How Can I Stop" is a rare mark of real greatness in the late-day Stones material, and I would rate it above the two 'very good' songs in BRIDGES TO BABYLON ("Out of Control" and "Saint of Me"), which, compared to "How Can I Stop", are rather typical or 'obvious' Stones songs, not adding anything substantive to what they have already said.
- Doxa
This is a very good description that I feel right at home with - beautiful
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: September 20, 2013 10:46
Quote
Doxa
(I have the advantage of loving them both, unlike those two guys who seem to love one, but hate the other...)
Okay, that will do; I defend "How Can I Stop" later...
- Doxa
I think that's a bit strong, Doxa. I don't hate 'How Can I Stop', because it doesn't inspire enough emotion from within me to have a reaction as extreme as hate. Not many Stones songs do (apart from maybe very bombastic Jagger delivered tracks like 'Sex Drive' and 'Suck On The Jugular' perhaps). 'How Can I Stop' is just one of those songs where the intentions are good, which is often the case with Keith, but the delivery just doesn't quite match what he's aiming for in my opinion. Keith aims very much for soulfullness, and to a large degree the backing musicians manage to supply that, within the effectively soulful backing. However, the soul, for me, is merely a gesture, because somewhere along the line, be it with regards to melody, or Keith's vocal interpretation, it all falls a little flat. In that genre, for me, Keith has done better, especially with 'Slipping Away', which i believe is a little more melodic, and where the backing music/vocals come together with Keith's lead vocal most effectively. In other words, they compliment each other, in a way they fail to do on 'How Can I Stop'. Perhaps for me, 'Losing My Touch' is a more extreme example still, even than 'How Can I Stop', of Keith picking random phrases and/or inflections out of the air, almost spontaneously, and hoping for the best. 'Slipping Away', for me, is just so much more measured, by comparison.
As i have stated earlier, i consider 'Start Me Up', Worried About You' and 'Waiting On A Friend' to be the last great Stones songs. I believe they supply the framework for TATTOO YOU.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 10:52 by Edward Twining.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 20, 2013 11:32
Yeah, I know Edward that you don't "hate" it, nor Dandie "Winter". I just over-exaggarated to get some attention..
I see "How Can I Stop" a bit differently as you do. I take you to emphasize a bit too much its melodical or lyrical side. I think those two things actually don't matter so much, and I take its virtue actually being so extreme in wandering rather far from the more traditional 'song' format. What is great in it, in my opinion, is the whole atmosphere in it, each little component adding to the whole. All done in a perfect taste (like the Stones have done in the past.) Compared to other similar musical statements - "Sleep Tonight", "Slipping Away", "Losing My Touch" - I think here Keith actually really hits the point home, and dares to really took the 'argument' in its extreme.
Compared to, say, Dylan, Keith is not so great in 'writing songs', but I think he is a master in expressing feelings in more 'pure' musical way, in sounds, in painting musical landscapes. That was his forte in his peak days as well, capturing the feelings in sounds (mostly with his idionsyncratic guitar parts, but it has always been more than that). Thereby I see "How Can I Stop" Keith in his finest, really trusting the musical statement he does, devoloping it perfect without any compromises. The song actually challenges us. (In a way, "Thief In The Night" is a bit similar, but not so memorable). For me "Losing My Touch", for example, is just a lazy effort, and its weakness is to be too sketchy or lazy 'song', and there is not much more than that. I think that one is more suitable candidate to your criticism, but not "How Can I Stop".
What I really admire in Keith Richards is the way he is - or used to be - a master of musical wholeness, of the whole atmosphere, and he always seem to see the individual parts only significant as a part of the whole. Only the wholeness matters. Not many musicians has that kind of 'holistic' attitude, or at least having that strong and great intuition to follow. For example, I think Dylan does not have it (at least so strong; he trust more to his song-writer skills and to his own voice), even though he is the best song writer the modern world has ever seen. Keith's greatness is a bit different compared to Dylan's. good to have them both (even the other has been a "bit" lazy for some time...)
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 11:38 by Doxa.
I see "How Can I Stop" a bit differently as you do. I take you to emphasize a bit too much its melodical or lyrical side. I think those two things actually don't matter so much, and I take its virtue actually being so extreme in wandering rather far from the more traditional 'song' format. What is great in it, in my opinion, is the whole atmosphere in it, each little component adding to the whole. All done in a perfect taste (like the Stones have done in the past.) Compared to other similar musical statements - "Sleep Tonight", "Slipping Away", "Losing My Touch" - I think here Keith actually really hits the point home, and dares to really took the 'argument' in its extreme.
Compared to, say, Dylan, Keith is not so great in 'writing songs', but I think he is a master in expressing feelings in more 'pure' musical way, in sounds, in painting musical landscapes. That was his forte in his peak days as well, capturing the feelings in sounds (mostly with his idionsyncratic guitar parts, but it has always been more than that). Thereby I see "How Can I Stop" Keith in his finest, really trusting the musical statement he does, devoloping it perfect without any compromises. The song actually challenges us. (In a way, "Thief In The Night" is a bit similar, but not so memorable). For me "Losing My Touch", for example, is just a lazy effort, and its weakness is to be too sketchy or lazy 'song', and there is not much more than that. I think that one is more suitable candidate to your criticism, but not "How Can I Stop".
What I really admire in Keith Richards is the way he is - or used to be - a master of musical wholeness, of the whole atmosphere, and he always seem to see the individual parts only significant as a part of the whole. Only the wholeness matters. Not many musicians has that kind of 'holistic' attitude, or at least having that strong and great intuition to follow. For example, I think Dylan does not have it (at least so strong; he trust more to his song-writer skills and to his own voice), even though he is the best song writer the modern world has ever seen. Keith's greatness is a bit different compared to Dylan's. good to have them both (even the other has been a "bit" lazy for some time...)
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 11:38 by Doxa.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: September 20, 2013 11:38
Last great song is Brown Sugar and that dates from 69.
Last very good song is Beast Of Burden, and maybe Start Me Up but I prefer the earlier reggae version.
There is a difference between great (ie a classic) and good and filler songs.
I am amazed how many on this forum seem to like album fillers that Keith and Mick just threw together and hardly make it to the live set because hardly anyone away from this board seems to care much about them.
As Mick just recently said when he asked for set requests, that he got loads of requests for some obscure type songs (album tracks, fillers etc) and it was skewed by the particular people that would respond to it on social media and forums, whereas the general public as a whole didn't want to really hear those more obscure songs.
Things like Winter are ok, and they are not classics and Gomper is just a pop/world music jam with a bit of a song thrown in for good measure and it's not a classic.
Some might like these songs for whatever reason but they are not great songs in the general public arena and the Stones know their better songs already.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 11:51 by howled.
Last very good song is Beast Of Burden, and maybe Start Me Up but I prefer the earlier reggae version.
There is a difference between great (ie a classic) and good and filler songs.
I am amazed how many on this forum seem to like album fillers that Keith and Mick just threw together and hardly make it to the live set because hardly anyone away from this board seems to care much about them.
As Mick just recently said when he asked for set requests, that he got loads of requests for some obscure type songs (album tracks, fillers etc) and it was skewed by the particular people that would respond to it on social media and forums, whereas the general public as a whole didn't want to really hear those more obscure songs.
Things like Winter are ok, and they are not classics and Gomper is just a pop/world music jam with a bit of a song thrown in for good measure and it's not a classic.
Some might like these songs for whatever reason but they are not great songs in the general public arena and the Stones know their better songs already.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 11:51 by howled.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
kuenzer
()
Date: September 20, 2013 12:05
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 12:07 by kuenzer.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 20, 2013 12:24
Quote
howled
Last great song is Brown Sugar and that dates from 69.
Last very good song is Beast Of Burden, and maybe Start Me Up but I prefer the earlier reggae version.
There is a difference between great (ie a classic) and good and filler songs.
I am amazed how many on this forum seem to like album fillers that Keith and Mick just threw together and hardly make it to the live set because hardly anyone away from this board seems to care much about them.
As Mick just recently said when he asked for set requests, that he got loads of requests for some obscure type songs (album tracks, fillers etc) and it was skewed by the particular people that would respond to it on social media and forums, whereas the general public as a whole didn't want to really hear those more obscure songs.
Things like Winter are ok, and they are not classics and Gomper is just a pop/world music jam with a bit of a song thrown in for good measure and it's not a classic.
Some might like these songs for whatever reason but they are not great songs in the general public arena and the Stones know their better songs already.
You don't find this one great? Man, you have high standards!
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: September 20, 2013 13:27
The song is not that bad but I hate the background vocals. It's too much. And maybe the production. And it's scetchy. Actually it is something they could have worked on, jammed, changed.
Thats why a scetchy song like Soul Survivour belongs to the great era. It's not a great song outside the Stones, like Gimme Shelter, but it's a great song in the Stones catalogue. How can I stop is NOT a great song in their catalogue but a glimpse of something else on a latter day pointless album. Their standard is so low on their 80s and 90s output that anything sounding a bit different, anything with a chord sequence or a groove is interesting because everything else is just some clueless dry riff in one ear and Micks hollow aerobics vocals in the other.
Thats why a scetchy song like Soul Survivour belongs to the great era. It's not a great song outside the Stones, like Gimme Shelter, but it's a great song in the Stones catalogue. How can I stop is NOT a great song in their catalogue but a glimpse of something else on a latter day pointless album. Their standard is so low on their 80s and 90s output that anything sounding a bit different, anything with a chord sequence or a groove is interesting because everything else is just some clueless dry riff in one ear and Micks hollow aerobics vocals in the other.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
camper88
()
Date: September 20, 2013 15:54
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-28 17:02 by camper88.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-28 17:02 by camper88.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: September 20, 2013 16:56
Quote
kuenzer
That's cool - I dig that song - but who is that second video? Seeing that the Stones essentially ignored that album I mean... must be someone covering it...
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: September 20, 2013 17:52
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
As I scratch my head, again...
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
camper88
()
Date: September 20, 2013 18:11
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-28 16:59 by camper88.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-03-28 16:59 by camper88.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: September 20, 2013 20:45
Quote
Doxa
What I really admire in Keith Richards is the way he is - or used to be - a master of musical wholeness, of the whole atmosphere, and he always seem to see the individual parts only significant as a part of the whole. Only the wholeness matters. Not many musicians has that kind of 'holistic' attitude, or at least having that strong and great intuition to follow. For example, I think Dylan does not have it (at least so strong; he trust more to his song-writer skills and to his own voice), even though he is the best song writer the modern world has ever seen. Keith's greatness is a bit different compared to Dylan's. good to have them both (even the other has been a "bit" lazy for some time...)
- Doxa
I believe Keith to be as great as Dylan (or he at least was in his prime) but at their best they both emphasise different music aspects. The greatness of Keith in his prime, i feel is his subtlelty. It's the insistant groove to 'Tumbling Dice', for example, which can really lock into the brain over repeated listens, which in turn gives Jagger a platform on which to demonstate lyrically/vocally what he has to offer. Even when listening to a rock track like 'Brown Sugar' or 'Jumpin' Jack Flash', Keith used a little more discretion (certainly when compared with the later more extravagant rockers) in his approach. For example, the tasteful mixture of acoustic and electric guitars on 'Brown Sugar', is very telling whereas some artists would perhaps go the whole hog, in attempting to make the track 'heavy'. I think there's a real economy within Keith's playing, which gives plenty of space, where the groove becomes of primary importance, rather than, for example what would amount to clutter with some artists. This in turn creates the more funky and sexual backbone to so many of the Stones songs. In a sense, i think of Keith as one of the most funky guitarists ever, without actually relating fully to the funk genre. Keith has never been a flashy musician.
Where Keith and Dylan meet musically is where they both share the desire to keep things simple and unpretentious, which is perhaps where they differ a little from Jagger.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: September 20, 2013 21:14
Great observation, edward.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
stupidguy2
()
Date: September 20, 2013 21:42
Last iconic song: Start Me Up
Last great, iconic song: Miss You
Last great song: Plundered My Soul..
someone else said it perfectly - the perfect melding of new and classic...
Last great, iconic song: Miss You
Last great song: Plundered My Soul..
someone else said it perfectly - the perfect melding of new and classic...
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
sf37
()
Date: September 20, 2013 21:54
In my opinion, "Laugh, I Nearly Died" was their last truly great tune. An underrated classic.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Edward Twining
()
Date: September 20, 2013 23:36
Quote
sf37
In my opinion, "Laugh, I Nearly Died" was their last truly great tune. An underrated classic.
Yes, i was surprised by that one,sf37, because i didn't think the Stones any longer had it in them. I think elements of the song are very good, but vocally, Jagger's heavy handed approach, for me, makes the song ultimately hard to bear. Not right the way through, i might add, but at the song's climax, as he approaches the song title.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: September 20, 2013 23:55
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
As I scratch my head, again, and wonder why people who feel The Stones have done nothing worth while musically for over 30 years still bother to post 1000s and 1000s of words basically whining about how they feel The Stones have done nothing worthwhile musically in over 30 years.
If/when I like a band..... and they go south (in my opinion), and many have, I am done with them. I am gone. I do not, would not, will not spend hours and hours on their fan website typing and talking to people who still enjoy the band's current stuff, trying to convince them that the band now sucks and how I dont want another album. WHY WOULD I? WHY WOULD ANYTONE?
Well, I can answer that on my behalf. They are still the best live rhythm&blues band, and they still often sound like a if they are jamming, even on age-old songs like Midnight Rambler for instance. They haven't lost that basic R&B groove.
And of course they have made a few new songs which are "worthwhile", but they are not "great".
I like the definition camper88 gave of the word "great": 1) "new level" (but still Stones feel) 2) great live 3) a challenge for the band 4) sinks in collective consciousness and 5) goosebumps. Although it's putting the bar very high. I think Tattoo You is a great album, but I am not sure any of its songs would be "great" according to that definition. "Waiting on a Friend" maybe, although I am not sure how that sounds live.
The best songs from the last 30 years however, never go a "new level", hardly ever work live, don't sound challenging and haven't entered any kind of "collective consciousness". Still, they are still much better than the output from most other rock bands. A song from the last 30 years that works great live is "You Got Me Rocking", but you would hardly call that challenging or original, would you?
I still listen to the Stones however, and follow what they do because I never found a band who came even close to their sound.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
sf37
()
Date: September 21, 2013 00:13
Quote
Edward TwiningQuote
sf37
In my opinion, "Laugh, I Nearly Died" was their last truly great tune. An underrated classic.
Yes, i was surprised by that one,sf37, because i didn't think the Stones any longer had it in them. I think elements of the song are very good, but vocally, Jagger's heavy handed approach, for me, makes the song ultimately hard to bear. Not right the way through, i might add, but at the song's climax, as he approaches the song title.
Jagger's vocals don't spoil the song for me but I do see where you're coming from, Edward. At some points in the song the vocals do tend to be a little over the top. But the tune itself is amazing!
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: September 21, 2013 01:10
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
Max'sKansasCity
As I scratch my head, again...
Wait a second, I have a feeling, we have done this all before?
As I scratch my head...
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
wanderingspirit66
()
Date: September 21, 2013 16:24
Quote
Edward TwiningQuote
sf37
In my opinion, "Laugh, I Nearly Died" was their last truly great tune. An underrated classic.
Yes, i was surprised by that one,sf37, because i didn't think the Stones any longer had it in them. I think elements of the song are very good, but vocally, Jagger's heavy handed approach, for me, makes the song ultimately hard to bear. Not right the way through, i might add, but at the song's climax, as he approaches the song title.
The "surprise" element in this song is what is great about it.. Surely a "collective" achievement of the Stones - the "band". The "Stones" prove that they still have it in them. The "flaw" - is of course in the vocals and are to be individually attributed to Jagger. Interesting way to frame the discourse...
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
CanYouHearTheMusic
()
Date: September 21, 2013 22:06
I agree with Dandelion regarding the majesty and maturity of "How Can I Stop." Though it'd never be in my top 5 (like Dandelion's) or even top 30, it's a very moving latter day gem from the Stones. Last great song for me is probably "Laugh I Nearly Died" or "Doom & Gloom" but there are quite a few gems from the 1983-2012 period and for me they'd be:
Undercover Of The Night
Too Much Blood (yup! LOVE it, when the Stones get this funky with their basslines I'm usually in)
One Hit (To The Body)
Dirty Work
Had It With You
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away (the latter two the only reasons to even own Steel Wheels IMHO)
Love Is Strong
Out Of Tears
Out Of Control
How Can I Stop
Laugh I Nearly Died
Doom & Gloom
The rest of the tracks on all those albums range from absolute shite ("Mixed Emotions," "Blinded By Love," "Streets Of Love," all 4 of the new songs on 40 Licks) to not bad to pretty good and every now and again *almost* great. What do I know though--I love Dirty Work! The songs have dated production but the anger is so utterly genuine and I love the snarling rhythm guitar sound on that record, as does Dandelion (I'm in that 1% minority that gets your affection for "Had It With You"s rhythm guitar).
I'm late in this thread but I don't get Dandelion's dislike of "Winter" either. For me that is one of the three or four best tracks on Goats Head Soup and a WAY better song (again, it's art, we ALL have different reactions and tastes so this is just my opinion maaaannnnnn) than the already-gorgeous "Moonlight Mile." It may be less structured than "Moonlight Mile" but I agree with Doxa--it's got some of the most beautiful lead guitar ever recorded, the solo sends shivers down my spine and Mick's vocals can bring me to tears in the right mood over that build at the end.
Last absolutely CLASSIC Stones song though? That'd be "Start Me Up," which doesn't deserve the slagging from Taylorites or Jones-purists. It's a great @#$%& song, plain and simple, and YES as good as "Honky Tonk Women" (hell, better than that slightly annoying song guys!) and "Satisfaction" no problem! It's that-level good. There's a reason it's still played with those earlier classics on the radio stations--it's one of their best. I'm not a Woodist btw; I'd be a Taylorite were it not for how much of the material I love that they made after he left (love every album from Black And Blue through Dirty Work and am very bored by the final Taylor album, IORR). Still, I think the best work they did were those first three 70s albums: Sticky, Exile, GHS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-21 22:09 by CanYouHearTheMusic.
Undercover Of The Night
Too Much Blood (yup! LOVE it, when the Stones get this funky with their basslines I'm usually in)
One Hit (To The Body)
Dirty Work
Had It With You
Almost Hear You Sigh
Slipping Away (the latter two the only reasons to even own Steel Wheels IMHO)
Love Is Strong
Out Of Tears
Out Of Control
How Can I Stop
Laugh I Nearly Died
Doom & Gloom
The rest of the tracks on all those albums range from absolute shite ("Mixed Emotions," "Blinded By Love," "Streets Of Love," all 4 of the new songs on 40 Licks) to not bad to pretty good and every now and again *almost* great. What do I know though--I love Dirty Work! The songs have dated production but the anger is so utterly genuine and I love the snarling rhythm guitar sound on that record, as does Dandelion (I'm in that 1% minority that gets your affection for "Had It With You"s rhythm guitar).
I'm late in this thread but I don't get Dandelion's dislike of "Winter" either. For me that is one of the three or four best tracks on Goats Head Soup and a WAY better song (again, it's art, we ALL have different reactions and tastes so this is just my opinion maaaannnnnn) than the already-gorgeous "Moonlight Mile." It may be less structured than "Moonlight Mile" but I agree with Doxa--it's got some of the most beautiful lead guitar ever recorded, the solo sends shivers down my spine and Mick's vocals can bring me to tears in the right mood over that build at the end.
Last absolutely CLASSIC Stones song though? That'd be "Start Me Up," which doesn't deserve the slagging from Taylorites or Jones-purists. It's a great @#$%& song, plain and simple, and YES as good as "Honky Tonk Women" (hell, better than that slightly annoying song guys!) and "Satisfaction" no problem! It's that-level good. There's a reason it's still played with those earlier classics on the radio stations--it's one of their best. I'm not a Woodist btw; I'd be a Taylorite were it not for how much of the material I love that they made after he left (love every album from Black And Blue through Dirty Work and am very bored by the final Taylor album, IORR). Still, I think the best work they did were those first three 70s albums: Sticky, Exile, GHS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-21 22:09 by CanYouHearTheMusic.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
FrankM
()
Date: September 21, 2013 23:41
Biggest Mistake. ABB had a lot of good songs imo but I like that one the best.
"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.
"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
CousinC
()
Date: September 22, 2013 06:24
Quote
Edward Twining
I don't hate 'How Can I Stop', because it doesn't inspire enough emotion from within me to have a reaction as extreme as hate. Not many Stones songs do (apart from maybe very bombastic Jagger delivered tracks like 'Sex Drive' and 'Suck On The Jugular' perhaps). 'How Can I Stop' is just one of those songs where the intentions are good, which is often the case with Keith, but the delivery just doesn't quite match what he's aiming for in my opinion. Keith aims very much for soulfullness, and to a large degree the backing musicians manage to supply that, within the effectively soulful backing. However, the soul, for me, is merely a gesture, because somewhere along the line, be it with regards to melody, or Keith's vocal interpretation, it all falls a little flat. In that genre, for me, Keith has done better, especially with 'Slipping Away', which i believe is a little more melodic, and where the backing music/vocals come together with Keith's lead vocal most effectively. In other words, they compliment each other, in a way they fail to do on 'How Can I Stop'. Perhaps for me, 'Losing My Touch' is a more extreme example still, even than 'How Can I Stop', of Keith picking random phrases and/or inflections out of the air, almost spontaneously, and hoping for the best. 'Slipping Away', for me, is just so much more measured, by comparison.
I can agree very much with all of this!That's how I feel as well.
Only reg. your last great songs I'm not so shure.
Re: The Last Great Stones Song?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: September 22, 2013 16:50
Quote
FrankM
Biggest Mistake. ABB had a lot of good songs imo but I like that one the best.
I also love many of ABB songs. Biggest Mistake, as well as some mentioned above ... It Won't Take Long, Laugh I Nearly Died, and I can't forget Infamy. And my 2 favorites: Rough Justice and This Place Is Empty!
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