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Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 15:36

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Kleerie will always have the last laugh.
The great man Mick Taylor will always be the greatest Stones guitarist..then and moreso now!

Only technically and there are thousands of guitarists that are better technically than any stones guitarists, but Keith was the greatest stones guitarist.

What they are now doesn't really matter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 15:38 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: September 13, 2013 16:21

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Kleerie will always have the last laugh.
The great man Mick Taylor will always be the greatest Stones guitarist..then and moreso now!

Only technically and there are thousands of guitarists that are better technically than any stones guitarists, but Keith was the greatest stones guitarist.

What they are now doesn't really matter.

You obviously havent read the 100 threads on this board about keith and ronnie's inability to play guitar...

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Date: September 13, 2013 16:50

Don't read or lean on other less knowledable people's opinions - just listen!





That song, or that sound, wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for Keith. Think about that for a minute smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 16:51 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: September 13, 2013 16:55

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
kleermaker
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
flacnvinyl
I will just leave this here...

Ya Ya's raw acetate mp3 - http://www.hatfieldmedia.com/The Rolling Stones - 1969 - Get Yer Ya Yas Out raw acetate - sbd.zip

Thanks, Drake! Taylor's guitar (in the centre of this acetate-mix) is almost bouncing out of my headphones grinning smiley

The reason for replacing it must surely be that the rhythm playing is WAY too busy during Keith's solos.

On LQ? You must be kidding.

If someone only could remove the crackle! It's better than Ya Ya's.

Funny you…. This IS the Ya Ya’s version…..First you state LQ is THE prime example of Taylor’s fantastic rhythm playing, then when it is discovered it actually is an overdub by Richards you don’t like the track at all, and now you think this version is better than Ya Ya’s while it IS the Ya Ya’s version…There’s a lot of wishful thinking going on with you Taylorites!

In the right channel in the background is Richards original (live) guitar, on the left is Richards overdubbed rhythm guitar as heard on Ya Ya’s.

The overdubs: in the right channel from the start the dark, heavy guitar playing the rhythm pattern is Richards. This guitar is completely removed for Ya Ya’s. Starting from 1:08 a new rhythm guitar can be heard in the middle of the spectrum. It plays throughout the rest of the song, and sounds much like Taylor’s original track.

In the first turn-around another overdubbed guitar is added, panned to the middle –it’s the heavy, thick guitar by Richards. This overdub is also on Ya Ya’s.

At 3:10 you hear why Taylor’s guitar has been removed: he plays a rhythm going against Charlie’s ‘2’ and ‘4’, and against Richards’ laid-back ‘and 2 and 4 beat’. Taylor emphasizes the ‘1’ with his ‘tadada-dum’ rhythm, just clashing with the rest of the band.

After the turn-around the thick guitar disappears, leaving the three guitars: Richards’ original track, the overdubbed rhythm part, and Taylor in the middle, removed on the official release. The outro has Taylor’s turn-around riff again.

Mathijs

this is a remnant of mick taylors track , on yayas possible bleeding through drum mikes , in the GS movie outtake clearly part of the MT track.
both MT and KR tracks audible , heavy on the bass though.

as for the rest , no taylor guitar , even on this "acetate". keith left and right .

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: September 13, 2013 17:04

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Don't read or lean on other less knowledable people's opinions - just listen!





That song, or that sound, wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for Keith. Think about that for a minute smiling smiley

What are you talking about? Another hijacked thread?

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Date: September 13, 2013 17:12

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Don't read or lean on other less knowledable people's opinions - just listen!





That song, or that sound, wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for Keith. Think about that for a minute smiling smiley

What are you talking about? Another hijacked thread?

This:
- "The great man Mick Taylor will always be the greatest Stones guitarist"
- "You obviously havent read the 100 threads on this board about keith and ronnie's inability to play guitar"

Or did someone "hi-jack" your posts? winking smiley

Keith is the greatest guitar player in the Stones, no discussion grinning smiley

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 17:18

Quote
Eleanor Rigby

You obviously havent read the 100 threads on this board about keith and ronnie's inability to play guitar...

I don't care about Ronnie.

Keith more than prove himself during their first ten years, but he was hot on guitar at the very least right up to and including the 1990's.

Even on last tour he pulled out some cool stuff, like his solo when Jeff Beck was a guest. He said a whole lot about who he is as a guitarist and especially as a stones guitarist right there.

In his own way, Keith at his best is as good as Hendrix etc. Much like Hendrix, Keith drew on various influences and created a new and distinctive way of playing guitar that never really existed before.

Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ron Wood didn't do that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 17:22 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: September 13, 2013 17:24

Jesus..you guys must be deaf..and I thought Dande had a clue about playing the guitar..

His Majesty..I suggest you just get over it..you sound like a scorn lover..

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 17:31

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Jesus..you guys must be deaf..and I thought Dande had a clue about playing the guitar..

His Majesty..I suggest you just get over it..you sound like a scorn lover..

You clearly don't get The Rolling Stones.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: September 13, 2013 17:33

Yep..you are right HM.
KEITH is the greatest. .
Ronnie is so cool..
Mick taylor..who?
Am I part of the fan club?

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 17:44

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Yep..you are right HM.
KEITH is the greatest. .
Ronnie is so cool..
Mick taylor..who?
Am I part of the fan club?

As a Rolling Stones guitarist, yes Keith was the greatest.

Ronnie has mostly sucked in the stones since he joined.

Taylor is a pure musician that admirably followed his creative inclinations over fame and fortune, but this eventually lead him in to playing virtually the same set for decades in the despressive surroundings of small clubs and bars of the world. Luckily, the stones offered him a holiday away from all that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 17:46 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: September 13, 2013 18:04

Haha...keith was great when he could play guitar. .not now.
At least Taylor can play a decent guitar. .he has been doing it for over 40 years!!
Fair effort. .

Forget it HM..u are a scorn woman..I'd hate to be your ex husband

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 13, 2013 18:10

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Maybe he thought the overdub was Taylor? More Taylor, please! winking smiley

PS: I know you can take a joke, kleerie smiling smiley

I was just joking myself Dandie. It's obviously not Taylor but Keith who's noodling here. You know I recognize Taylor's and Keith's solo style immediately.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Date: September 13, 2013 18:36

grinning smiley

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: September 13, 2013 18:38

Yeah...

Easy to spot the difference ... because MT plays too many notes for me to handle winking smiley

Counterpoint ? isn't that something to do with embroidary ?

Oh no ..my mistake ..it's the posh name for polyrythmic noodling !

[MT playing milions of notes is very often appropriate and much of it wonderful...he just didn't always get when it wasn't appropriate ]

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 18:48

Quote
straycatblues73


as for the rest , no taylor guitar , even on this "acetate". keith left and right .

There's a guitar in middle.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 19:04

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Haha...keith was great when he could play guitar. .not now.
At least Taylor can play a decent guitar. .he has been doing it for over 40 years!!
Fair effort. .

Forget it HM..u are a scorn woman..I'd hate to be your ex husband

That Keith is the best stones guitarist is all so obvious, simple and easy to understand.

Those that think other wise really haven't got The Rolling Stones.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 19:19 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: September 13, 2013 21:10

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
straycatblues73


as for the rest , no taylor guitar , even on this "acetate". keith left and right .

There's a guitar in middle.

no ,there isnt . turnaround remnent only

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Date: September 13, 2013 21:23

No, there is a rhythm guitar playing several places in there. Same style as Taylor does with the D and A on Live With Me.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 21:29

Quote
straycatblues73
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
straycatblues73


as for the rest , no taylor guitar , even on this "acetate". keith left and right .

There's a guitar in middle.

no ,there isnt . turnaround remnent only

What are you listening to?

On Little Queenie from the acetate download from earlier in this thread there is a clear basic rhythm guitar in centre of the mix in addition to the guitars on the left and right.

Not just in turn around, but through the majority of the track. It creeps in circa 0.28 of the track and plays through the rest of the song.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 21:32

Quote
DandelionPowderman
No, there is a rhythm guitar playing several places in there. Same style as Taylor does with the D and A on Live With Me.

On Little Queeinie!? confused smiley

The middle guitar plays straight chuck berry rhythm and does so through the majority of the track. The end lead line in middle of the mix comes flying in over it right at the end.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 21:42 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: September 13, 2013 21:49

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Eleanor Rigby

You obviously havent read the 100 threads on this board about keith and ronnie's inability to play guitar...

I don't care about Ronnie.

Keith more than prove himself during their first ten years, but he was hot on guitar at the very least right up to and including the 1990's.

Even on last tour he pulled out some cool stuff, like his solo when Jeff Beck was a guest. He said a whole lot about who he is as a guitarist and especially as a stones guitarist right there.

In his own way, Keith at his best is as good as Hendrix etc. Much like Hendrix, Keith drew on various influences and created a new and distinctive way of playing guitar that never really existed before.

Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ron Wood didn't do that.

Keith wouldn't be voted as # 4 on Rolling Stone's best guitar players if he was pure crap. His playing was fantastic throughout the first 20-30 years. A fantastic rythm player with great solos - not "full speed solos" like Van-halen, but is that what guitar playing is all about??

In regards to MT, KR expressed high recognition to MT, the same with MJ:

"I was in awe sometimes listening to Mick Taylor," Keith Richards wrote in his memoir. "Everything was there in his playing – the melodic touch, a beautiful sustain and a way of reading a song." Taylor was only 20 when the Rolling Stones recruited him from John Mayall's Bluesbreakers as the replacement for Brian Jones in 1969. His impact, on masterworks such as Exile on Main Street and Sticky Fingers, was immediate. The down-and-dirty slide on "Love in Vain"; the jaw-dropping precision on "All Down the Line" (where his playing brilliantly mimics the sound of a harmonica); the extended, Latin-jazz-inflected coda on "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" – it's no accident that Taylor's stint coincided with the Stones' most consistently great recordings. "He was a very fluent, melodic player... and it gave me something to follow, to bang off," Mick Jagger said of Taylor, who left the band in 1974. "Some people think that's the best version of the band that existed."

Read more: [www.rollingstone.com]

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 22:05

Quote
mtaylor
it's no accident that Taylor's stint coincided with the Stones' most consistently great recordings.

I didn't know he played on Aftermath - the majority of Let It Bleed.

He jumped onboard an already well oiled, creative, ace record making machine. He was lucky in that he was asked to join in 1969 and not 1975. winking smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 22:45 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: schwonek ()
Date: September 13, 2013 22:49

Ok. I went back to Yayas - also the one posted here. Let me just state this:

LOVE IN VAIN is the shit. It bleeds. Mick Taylor is on fire!
(Although I have to admit that Ronnie played a really nice solo in München Olympiahalle as well 2003)

When talking about all the dubs I have to say that Charlie and Bill didnt dub and they just kick ass so bad. I cant believe it. Both Yayas and LYL.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: September 13, 2013 23:02

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
mtaylor
it's no accident that Taylor's stint coincided with the Stones' most consistently great recordings.

I didn't know he played on Aftermath - the majority of Let It Bleed.

He jumped onboard an already well oiled, creative, ace record making machine. He was lucky in that he was asked to join in 1969 and not 1975. winking smiley

Or Stones were lucky to get MT onboard to compensate for KR detoriation.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 23:08

Quote
mtaylor


Or Stones were lucky to get MT onboard to compensate for KR detoriation.

Er, no.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: September 13, 2013 23:17

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
mtaylor


Or Stones were lucky to get MT onboard to compensate for KR detoriation.

Er, no.

Yes it was - three good records, SF, EOMS, GHS.. after that MJ had to fight to get two good CD's, SG and TY, on the road, after that average music...

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 13, 2013 23:30

Quote
mtaylor

Yes it was - three good records, SF, EOMS, GHS.. after that MJ had to fight to get two good CD's, SG and TY, on the road, after that average music...

Sticky and Exile would have been great even without Taylor. Different for sure, but not THAT different. They were on the path towards those albums anyway, Beggars and the Let It Bleed tracks without Taylor show.

He certainly contributed, but so did Ry Cooder etc... they were great and solid on record already.

In 1969 any good enough, reliable guitarist in place of Brian would have allowed the others to continue with their chosen path live. The studio stuff was happening with a core 4 piece of the stones (without Brian) and Nicky and various guests onboard anyway and even with Taylor onboard the guests etc kept on coming too.

The inspired song writing well was drying up by 1974 even with Taylor onboard. Even he couldn't stop that.


...


The stones were continuing their success in 1969, thirsty to play live and any good guitarist in place of Brian would have allowed them to do so.

At the same time Taylor was bandless with only some vague plans for a solo album. Had they not asked him to attend a recording session at end of May 1969 his journey in to the small clubs and bars of the world could have kicked in right there and then.

He was most definitely the lucky one.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-13 23:42 by His Majesty.

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Posted by: svt22 ()
Date: September 13, 2013 23:37

Quote
His Majesty

In 1969 any good enough, reliable guitarist would have allowed them to continue with their chosen path live, the studio stuff was happening with a core 4 piece of the stones without Brian and Nicky and guests onboard anyway.

The inspired song writing well was drying up by 1974 even with Taylor onboard. Even he couldn't stop that.

The Rolling Stones were more than a studio band only.
Lots of good players around indeed, and Taylor was one of them, on stage in particular. What's your point?

Re: Love You Live - Overdubs
Date: September 13, 2013 23:38

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
DandelionPowderman
No, there is a rhythm guitar playing several places in there. Same style as Taylor does with the D and A on Live With Me.

On Little Queeinie!? confused smiley

The middle guitar plays straight chuck berry rhythm and does so through the majority of the track. The end lead line in middle of the mix comes flying in over it right at the end.

Listen again. Taylor clashes with the rhythm in the centre.

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