It is very interesting to see the various opinions on this album and Undercover. As a 12 year old kid listening to Undercover years after it had come out, I always thought it was a cool record. I will likely listen to it tomorrow on my way to the studio. Always loved the sound on it in particular. Must Be Hell being the one song that I thought "man, thats a mean song" in a bad way.

Dirty Work's production is the nail in the coffin, but honestly Jagger is the weak link on that album. Instead of digging deep and surprising everyone, it is just an angry record. Jagger screams all the way through the record, which is abrasive even for a rock n roll record. Songs like Fight could have an interesting groove but instead are just plain bad.

The marketing video says it best...

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buttons67
dirtywork is a crap album and had it with you is a crap song.

undercover is underrated and is a decent album.

A rhythm and blues-song with a great groove and a nasty harp - very authentic-sounding.

You're probably not very fond of that side of the Stones (aka their foundation)?

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seitan
crappy album but much better than Undercover. - Undercover is the worst rock album in history of popular music, - dirty work album was just ..mediocre.

Interesting how opinions and musical taste can differ so much -I find Undercover to be in the top 5 of Best Ever Stones albums.

Mathijs

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GOO
Lilywhite's production blows

Yes it does...but that's just as much a reflection of typical mid eighties production as it is him of him personally.
I don't dislike this album as much as many folks but the production style doesn't suite this band one little bit.

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Mathijs

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seitan
crappy album but much better than Undercover. - Undercover is the worst rock album in history of popular music, - dirty work album was just ..mediocre.

Interesting how opinions and musical taste can differ so much -I find Undercover to be in the top 5 of Best Ever Stones albums.

Mathijs

yes, it is interesting. for many people it's barely in the top 5 best stones album of the 80s.

I love Keith's tone on that song! Don't think much of the album as a whole, but love 'One hit to the body.'

Sleep Tonight and Harlem Shuffle I kinda like also.

Hey "Cant cut the mustard"great stuff,sounds like "Down the road apiece"Which was always brilliant.Pity they never do it live.Amos Milburn check him out.

This song is nothing but boring, In the same genre I prefer ''Mean Disposition''.
But overall except for ''Had It With You'' I think Dirty Work is underrated, especially ''Hold Back'', ''Back To Zero'' and the title track dosen't get enough recognition.

I think it's a good tune from an otherwise weak album in Stones measures... Altough I absolutely ADORE ONE HIT TO THE BODY.. wished they whould include it in some live concerts... didn't they to that in 89' and it didn't sound that well?

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DandelionPowderman
It's just hip to diss DW. The album has several good songs.

HIWY is one of them.

This is probably debated to death, but here are some of the ‘problems’ I have with Dirty Work.

It lacks enthusiasm and positivism. It has not the same feel good atmosphere as Sticky, Exile or Some Girls. The internal fighting between band members is present in the sound and production. Jagger was absent from many of the recording sessions, making Dirty Work much a Richards/Wood project. (I know you could say that Jagger were absent from the making of Exile as well, but Keith was in a much better mood and a creative force in the Nellecote basement.) Jagger seems to be completely uninterested in the making of Dirty Work. He's vocal contributions are perhaps the worst he's ever done with The Stones.

The production is just awful. The drum sound is the worst on any Stones record. Examples are the drum intros on Hold Back and Too Rude, and the drum fills at the end of Dirty Work. It sounds as if the drums were recorded in a big empty warehouse creating a noisy echo.

Some of the tracks are among the most embarrassing The Stones’ ever released.
The blend of synthesizers and lame background vocals make Winning Ugly sound a bit like Stones doing their version of Wham’s Make Me Up Before You Go-Go.
Back to Zero sounds like the theme song of some mediocre 1980s TV-series.

Some of the songs have potential. (Keith demonstrated the quality of Too Rude live with the Winos.) But with brilliant guests such as Tom Waits, Jimmy Cliff, Bobby Womack, Don Convay, Ivan Neville and Jimmy Page – we should expect something more. And the fact that they used a cover song as the hit single to promote the album (for the first time since 1964) just underlines the lack of creativity. As far as I’m concerned Sleep Tonight is the only strong, solid track on the record that will stand the test of time.

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The Worst.

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DandelionPowderman
It's just hip to diss DW. The album has several good songs.

HIWY is one of them.

This is probably debated to death, but here are some of the ‘problems’ I have with Dirty Work.

It lacks enthusiasm and positivism. It has not the same feel good atmosphere as Sticky, Exile or Some Girls. The internal fighting between band members is present in the sound and production. Jagger was absent from many of the recording sessions, making Dirty Work much a Richards/Wood project. (I know you could say that Jagger were absent from the making of Exile as well, but Keith was in a much better mood and a creative force in the Nellecote basement.) Jagger seems to be completely uninterested in the making of Dirty Work. He's vocal contributions are perhaps the worst he's ever done with The Stones.

The production is just awful. The drum sound is the worst on any Stones record. Examples are the drum intros on Hold Back and Too Rude, and the drum fills at the end of Dirty Work. It sounds as if the drums were recorded in a big empty warehouse creating a noisy echo.

Some of the tracks are among the most embarrassing The Stones’ ever released.
The blend of synthesizers and lame background vocals make Winning Ugly sound a bit like Stones doing their version of Wham’s Make Me Up Before You Go-Go.
Back to Zero sounds like the theme song of some mediocre 1980s TV-series.

Some of the songs have potential. (Keith demonstrated the quality of Too Rude live with the Winos.) But with brilliant guests such as Tom Waits, Jimmy Cliff, Bobby Womack, Don Convay, Ivan Neville and Jimmy Page – we should expect something more. And the fact that they used a cover song as the hit single to promote the album (for the first time since 1964) just underlines the lack of creativity. As far as I’m concerned Sleep Tonight is the only strong, solid track on the record that will stand the test of time.

I agree totally, although I wouldn't be that harsh on Winning Ugly.

Keep in mind that Mick wanted to promote both Winning Ugly AND Back To Zero. The latter was indeed the working title for the album as well.

If we distance ourselves from what we've read about Mick's involvement, and instead listen more closely to the music, it's quite obvious for me that Mick did involve himself with the songs he believed in (One Hit To The Body, Harlem Shuffle, Winning Ugly and Back To Zero - 4 out of 10 songs). Those songs are much "better" (read streamline produced) than the other tracks.

The tracks we have left are more "honest"-sounding, despite their flaws, imo. Lillywhite might have had to big of a say concerning the production with Mick absent with those songs (we can only speculate about that).

Some of the drum-stuff is really only an extension of what went on on Undercover. Dub-techniques based on what Sly and Robbie brought in for the U-sessions (Too Rude, Dirty Work). The difference is within volume and the horrid use of effects.

Still, there are stuff on Exile, IORR and GHS that sounds absolutely horrible today as well, so I choose to think of the songs when I evaluate an album - and tracks like One Hit, Fight, Harlem Shuffle, Dirty Work, Had It With You and Sleep Tonight are better than their reputation, imo.

PS: Exile isn't really a hallelujah-album, is it? It's pretty rough, violent and dark at times, too

Its a good album and has always been...one hit is great, dirty work also, had it with you. too rude, had it with you, sleep tonight, harlem shuffle.....

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sonomastone

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Mathijs

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seitan
crappy album but much better than Undercover. - Undercover is the worst rock album in history of popular music, - dirty work album was just ..mediocre.

Interesting how opinions and musical taste can differ so much -I find Undercover to be in the top 5 of Best Ever Stones albums.

Mathijs

yes, it is interesting. for many people it's barely in the top 5 best stones album of the 80s.

Count me in for top ten of their albums...Undercover that is.

this song

This is a pretty good song.

Re His vocals around this era:

I dig Mick's mushed mouth singing in 75 and coked up barking in 81, but I can't get into his Mid 80's screaming.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-05 23:02 by ryanpow.

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LeonidP
Definitely the only Stones album that I don't like much -- and I always thought Had It With You was a pretty lame bluesy attempt. I'll take One Hit, Too Rude and Harlem Shuffle ... and trash the rest.

Agreed, though I like 'Fight' and 'Sleep Tonight.'

In general, I think many Stones fans were perhaps expecting more following the equally disappointing 'Undercover' album (though I actually like that one myself though it's no masterpiece).

I think it is telling of the quality of DIRTY WORK that a throwaway filler song they do in two minutes with minimal effort and without any inspiration, and probably as a joke, is about the best song in the album... Okay, there is "Harlem Shuffle" as well, but not too much creativity wasted in that one either...

I don't think there is a way to save the album by redescription; it deserves any criticism it gets. It's not any SATANIC MAJESTIES or GOATS HEAD SOUP or BLACK AND BLUE - albums which seemed to have aged rather better than their reputation.

- Doxa

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nightskyman
In general, I think many Stones fans were perhaps expecting more following the equally disappointing 'Undercover' album (though I actually like that one myself though it's no masterpiece).

I guess for that same reason STEEL WHEELS sounded (at first) incredibly fresh and great after those two "failures" (strong word, but that was clear by late 80's that The Stones were artistically rather dried out), even probably haven't aged much better...

But still, in a hindsight, it was those two mid-80's albums, in which the Stones for the very last time tried to reinvent their sound and do something novel and contemporary. But the time was not in their side any longer (and probably Jagger either...)

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-05 20:28 by Doxa.

Dirty Work might yet have it's day when full on 80's production etc comes back in a big way.

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His Majesty
Dirty Work might yet have it's day when full on 80's production etc comes back in a big way.

I hope I will not be around then...

- Doxa

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treaclefingers

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sonomastone

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Mathijs

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seitan
crappy album but much better than Undercover. - Undercover is the worst rock album in history of popular music, - dirty work album was just ..mediocre.

Interesting how opinions and musical taste can differ so much -I find Undercover to be in the top 5 of Best Ever Stones albums.

Mathijs

yes, it is interesting. for many people it's barely in the top 5 best stones album of the 80s.

Count me in for top ten of their albums...Undercover that is.

Undercover will always be #5 my rank order. Nothing in the Stones cannon prepares you specifically for Undercover - nothing since Undercover matches its eclecticism. For me, Undercover is the only complete musical realization of the post Exile era. It is somehwat incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not appreciate this album.

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wanderingspirit66

For me, Undercover is the only complete musical realization of the post Exile era. It is somehwat incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not appreciate this album.

Well, the lack of quality song-writing makes it rather easy to not appreciate it so much. But it has other strenghts - such as the coherence you mentioned plus a great groove in many tracks, and it rocks rather hard - which helps to compansate the lack of strong material. I also like the idea that in strict contrast to B-side of TATTOO YOU, the B-side does not have any slow songs...

- Doxa

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His Majesty
Dirty Work might yet have it's day when full on 80's production etc comes back in a big way.

In some ways I think 80's style production is pretty big today.

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His Majesty
Dirty Work might yet have it's day when full on 80's production etc comes back in a big way.

Never happen. People know where too much cocaine leads now, cat's outta the bag. lol

I think the songs probably got potential but was never fully developed in the classic stones way, with all members firing on all cylinders and into the project. The Wino's could have pulled off this Keith number much better. peace

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ryanpow

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His Majesty
Dirty Work might yet have it's day when full on 80's production etc comes back in a big way.

In some ways I think 80's style production is pretty big today.

I think the big and already established acts which went through that time never fully recovered from it. Some of that 80's production mind set stuck.

They fooled Mick to sing about himself (and many more on that the record)

Undercover, the album, is a 45 single. In other words it has one A-side, the great 'Undercover of the Night' and one B-side, 'She Was Hot', which should have been the Stones last Chuck Berry inspired throw away. You can toss the rest of the crap on Undercover into a dumpster. To me it is entirely incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not AGREE with that.

Dirty Work is better, but still a mess. One Hit is a classic, and Bill's bass on Harlem Shuffle is sublime. Too Rude and Sleep Tonight is nice. Mick has some good lyrics on Hold Back and Winning Ugly, that are unfortunately wrapped in horrible music. Throw the rest of the album away, especially Had It With You.

And yes, Steel Wheels was greeted with enthusiasm because it was a good, coherent album with some real effort put into it. And it has aged well, with some great, maybe not A-Plus level, songs. It absolutely stomps Undercover and Dirty Work. In fact they should throw Sad, Sad, Sad, and Can't Be Seen in with the UnderDirtyWork vomit, and Steel Wheels is their best album since Sticky Fingers.

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Doxa

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wanderingspirit66

For me, Undercover is the only complete musical realization of the post Exile era. It is somehwat incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not appreciate this album.

Well, the lack of quality song-writing makes it rather easy to not appreciate it so much. But it has other strenghts - such as the coherence you mentioned plus a great groove in many tracks, and it rocks rather hard - which helps to compansate the lack of strong material. I also like the idea that in strict contrast to B-side of TATTOO YOU, the B-side does not have any slow songs...

- Doxa

But I find the songwriting to be very inspired. I think Undercover, She Was Hot and Tie You Up to be part of their best work. I love the sleaze and funk of Too Much Blood, I love the beat and groove of Pretty Beat Up, and I love how the album ends with a trio of hard driving classic -Too Tough, Al The Way Down and It Must Be Hell. I neer cared for Wanna Hold You though, and Feel on Baby is much better as a 12 inch.

The record is a hard rock record, with some great Jamaican flavoured percussion groove added (in the same way as Ollie Brown added some real groove and funk to the Stones). I love Jagger's vocals and lyrics, and I love how this album has that mix of danger, aggression, sex and violence. This was last time the Stones meant something, when they where still considered dangerous, and this was their last effort to bring something new.

Mathijs

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Doxa

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wanderingspirit66

For me, Undercover is the only complete musical realization of the post Exile era. It is somehwat incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not appreciate this album.

Well, the lack of quality song-writing makes it rather easy to not appreciate it so much. But it has other strenghts - such as the coherence you mentioned plus a great groove in many tracks, and it rocks rather hard - which helps to compansate the lack of strong material. I also like the idea that in strict contrast to B-side of TATTOO YOU, the B-side does not have any slow songs...

- Doxa

EDIT: Now I noticed you were talking about Undercover - an even bigger crime, as far as songwriting goes, imo

But I guess my reply below could be relevant as well, since you aren't the biggest DW-fan around

I'm not so sure about the lack of quality song-writing. We have heard the bootlegs, and they had tons of great songs from the sessions. And personally, I don't find One Hit, Sleep Tonight, Dirty Work or Had It With You any weaker than Dancing With Mr. D, Hide Your Love or Till The Next Goodbye - to show a relevant parallell, both in terms of "easy" songwriting and performance (I enjoy Ronnie's guitar solo on the track Dirty Work just as much as Taylor's brilliant solos on Hide Your Love, for instance).

That leaves us with the production and Mick's (and Charlie's) performances or dedication IMO, not the songwriting.

IMO, saying that Had It With You is an easy throwaway-filler and Hide Your Love not, doesn't make sense. Both are authentic rhythm and blues or blues - and it is the performance that counts with this kind of music. Had It With You has some of Keith's best guitar playing ever rhythm-wise, as well as a fantastic harp by Mick.



















However, this album could have been a really great one!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-06 11:17 by DandelionPowderman.