They should make a deLuxe version with the promo video included

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Mathijs

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seitan
crappy album but much better than Undercover. - Undercover is the worst rock album in history of popular music, - dirty work album was just ..mediocre.

Interesting how opinions and musical taste can differ so much -I find Undercover to be in the top 5 of Best Ever Stones albums.

Mathijs

While not currently in my top 5, which is ever changing, Undercover *has* been in my top five before as well! Phenomenally underrated album, Mathijs, I agree! Killer production (FAT drums and bass!), experimental direction much of the time, great grooves. Nuff said!

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DandelionPowderman
It's just hip to diss DW. The album has several good songs.

HIWY is one of them.

It totally is. Dirty Work was and is better than every album they recorded afterwards, IMHO. Its production has aged really badly but its angry songs sound like they MEANT it, because they did--they hated each other! While that constant anger is the very reason many dislike it, it's the very reason I LOVE it. Not in my top 10 of course but underrated all the same . . .

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His Majesty
Dirty Work might yet have it's day when full on 80's production etc comes back in a big way.

Where have you been? It's already back, and has been, for about 5 years. 5 TERRIBLE years. Fun. is 80s all the way (complete with their terrible name), there are other bands like Capital Cities and Midi Matilda that are retro-80s, including gated reverb drums etc. etc. etc. Yuck is what I say about that! GO AWAY 80s CHIC!!!!

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24FPS
Undercover, the album, is a 45 single. In other words it has one A-side, the great 'Undercover of the Night' and one B-side, 'She Was Hot', which should have been the Stones last Chuck Berry inspired throw away. You can toss the rest of the crap on Undercover into a dumpster. To me it is entirely incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not AGREE with that.

Dirty Work is better, but still a mess. One Hit is a classic, and Bill's bass on Harlem Shuffle is sublime. Too Rude and Sleep Tonight is nice. Mick has some good lyrics on Hold Back and Winning Ugly, that are unfortunately wrapped in horrible music. Throw the rest of the album away, especially Had It With You.

And yes, Steel Wheels was greeted with enthusiasm because it was a good, coherent album with some real effort put into it. And it has aged well, with some great, maybe not A-Plus level, songs. It absolutely stomps Undercover and Dirty Work. In fact they should throw Sad, Sad, Sad, and Can't Be Seen in with the UnderDirtyWork vomit, and Steel Wheels is their best album since Sticky Fingers.

Steel Wheels . . . lemme get this straight here . . . if you subtract those two turds . . . is BETTER than Exile, Some Girls, Tattoo You, Emotional Rescue, Black And Blue, It's Only Rock 'N' Roll AND Goats Head Soup?!

No.

NO.

Just no. It's easily their worst album, utter crap, production MORE dated than Dirty Work, unlistenable, uninspired, phoned in, just sucks. Nothing going on on that record. Aside from "Slipping Away," there's no other song on there that stands out. It stinks. Dirty Work and EVERY 80s album they made, as well as every album they made afterward, is better, but to say it's better than ALL the albums between it and Sticky Fingers . . . that's just wrong, plain and simple. And taking it to an extreme rarely seen even here amongst us dorks. Well ya know, we've all got our opinions and favorites I guess . . .

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24FPS
Steel Wheels...has aged well

I must admit, this is the first time I've seen this in print.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-08 07:15 by Sipuncula.

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Doxa
I wouldn't call those (late-day) blues songs "half-baked". It is more like they are in their home territory, where they naturally sound so effortless without much trying. I mean, this band, including its key members, learned the game via this music. And anything you learned from your age from 15 to 20, you will know the rest of your life. Which I think is a part of problem from their side. Namely, the point is that they pretty much did their career by developing out of the blues, as an original sounding pop/rock band, and that's what they are known for, and, also I guess, looking the thing from their side, they must to be proud of. Of course, the blues is in the DNA of their original music, and I have the impression that's the way they wanted it to be - just an element, not an aim itself (it's their personal achievement to make authentic rock music with such a strong blues element in it, pretty much to do with the "feel").

So going "back" to formal twelve-bar blues, is like going to your artistic kindergarden, to your baby-years, back to mommy... And knowing for example, Jagger's mentality, that's not something he is keen on doing... (Keith, of course, is a bit different animal, a romantic, but not actually so much as far the music - or business - of the Stones is concerned).

So taking their deep roots in blues (and no any modern rock band can even imagine how deep they were in it, since they really started there), I think blues is "too familiar" to them, and I sometimes get the feeling that they are almost ashamed how easily and great they can deliver it. I almost get the feeling that they are hiding that side of theirs. Probably they think that blues cuts don't have a commercial value, so that's why they are basically single B-side material or odd album fillers. But also, at the same, I think they might not rate very high themselves the artistic value of it. Too "easy" for their artistic ambitions. The odd "pure" blues tracks they occasionally release, especially since 1989, sound like therapeuthical tracks for them. They sound like just playing to themselves, just for the sake of fun of it. And, maybe that's why, those songs sound so damn natural and effortless.

- Doxa

This strikes me as a very deep, very perceptive assessment of the long '89-? era of the Stones.

I guess I have a slightly more upbeat take on the role of the blues and soul and covers since '89. When I listen to "Fancy Man" or the gorgeous "For Your Precious Love" and some of the others that we've been discussing, I hear something that's quite different from the sound of the band, in its infancy, drawing on blues. The hot sh*t, snarling, punkish attitude of their delivery of say, "Little Red Rooster," or "Look What You've Done" or "Mercy Mercy" is gone, and replaced by a worldliness and a certain finely-aged wisdom. One of the heartbreaks of tracks like "Fancy Man" or "The Storm" is that they suggest--for me, anyway--that the Stones could, if they chose, do even better and deeper soul and blues than in the "mature" heyday of "Still A Fool," "No Expectations," and "Love In Vain." And maybe for the reasons you suggest, they (Jagger?) haven't let themselves go down that path.

One of my favorite treats of the last twenty years was seeing the performances of "Little Queenie" in '97 and, say, "That's How Strong My Love Is" (and others) in '02. Or "Night Time Is The Right Time" in '05...With the conflict between Mick and Keith, and the absolute (on some level) expectation that everything has to be played in 20,000 to 60,000 seat places, the band has, to a large extent, lost the ability to be the Rolling Stones. That is, a Rolling Stones that pushes forward--beyond Out of Our Heads and into Aftermath. Beyond Satanic Majesties and into Beggars Banquet. Out of Black and Blue and into Some Girls. And yes, out of '78-'81 and into flawed, but interesting stuff like "Too Much Blood" and Dirty Work. Instead, we get the processed, contrived, stadium-ready retro Stones of Voodoo Lounge ("I Go Wild" is the all-time the low point for me). And what I'm getting at is that it is in the covers and the blues tracks (how about "I Can't Be Satisfied" on Four Flicks?) where the band can just completely let go of...the Rolling Stones. And of the huge popular, historical, artistic--and personal--(and very, very lucrative) burden that "The Rolling Stones" has become. When I see them tear into "Queenie" or "Everybody Needs Somebody to Love" or "Champagne and Reefer," they seem looser and more outside their own legend than at any other time. And ironically, more fully themselves.

I'm probably just re-phrasing what you said, Doxa. But I hear a new and perhaps higher level of mastery of those styles and I think it would be a fine and fitting way to go out if they were to explore that "kindergarten" in their twilight years.

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Sipuncula

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24FPS
Steel Wheels...has aged well

I must admit, this is the first time I've seen this in print.

It's way more easy on the 80's effects than DW was.

IMO, SW is the best of the latter day Stones albums. Terrifying is the deep cut, and is a little pearl on that album

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CanYouHearTheMusic

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24FPS
Undercover, the album, is a 45 single. In other words it has one A-side, the great 'Undercover of the Night' and one B-side, 'She Was Hot', which should have been the Stones last Chuck Berry inspired throw away. You can toss the rest of the crap on Undercover into a dumpster. To me it is entirely incomprehensible to me as to how a dedicated Stones fan can not AGREE with that.

Dirty Work is better, but still a mess. One Hit is a classic, and Bill's bass on Harlem Shuffle is sublime. Too Rude and Sleep Tonight is nice. Mick has some good lyrics on Hold Back and Winning Ugly, that are unfortunately wrapped in horrible music. Throw the rest of the album away, especially Had It With You.

And yes, Steel Wheels was greeted with enthusiasm because it was a good, coherent album with some real effort put into it. And it has aged well, with some great, maybe not A-Plus level, songs. It absolutely stomps Undercover and Dirty Work. In fact they should throw Sad, Sad, Sad, and Can't Be Seen in with the UnderDirtyWork vomit, and Steel Wheels is their best album since Sticky Fingers.

Steel Wheels . . . lemme get this straight here . . . if you subtract those two turds . . . is BETTER than Exile, Some Girls, Tattoo You, Emotional Rescue, Black And Blue, It's Only Rock 'N' Roll AND Goats Head Soup?!

No.

NO.

Just no. It's easily their worst album, utter crap, production MORE dated than Dirty Work, unlistenable, uninspired, phoned in, just sucks. Nothing going on on that record. Aside from "Slipping Away," there's no other song on there that stands out. It stinks. Dirty Work and EVERY 80s album they made, as well as every album they made afterward, is better, but to say it's better than ALL the albums between it and Sticky Fingers . . . that's just wrong, plain and simple. And taking it to an extreme rarely seen even here amongst us dorks. Well ya know, we've all got our opinions and favorites I guess . . .

I don't know why the hell I said that. Of course it's not better than Exile and Some Girls, but it's still, by far, their best album of the 80s. Tattoo You has some peaks, but is not a real album as far as hanging together. It's a great pastiche of songs mostly hanging out in the smoker for a long time, with Start Me Up thrown in with them.

Mixed Emotions is the last 'state of the Stones' song, where you feel it's about them and where the band stands. Terrifying is jazzy cool. Hearts For Sale is good raunchy Stones (not the crap raunchy like Sad, Sad, Sad). Blinded By Love has fantastic lyrics and a great mandolin. This would be the last of their great country inflected songs. Rock and A Hard Place doesn't really work. And it was already mentioned how much Can't Be Seen sucks. But come on, Almost Hear You Sigh is beautiful. Continental Drift is on a whole other level. The last great music experiment of the group. Break the Spell is a great B side. And Slipping Away is the last song of the great Rolling Stones. It would never be the same afterward. Steel Wheels is a classic Stones album. Undercover and Dirty Work are abortions by comparison.

Yes, Steel Wheels is a strong album. Tattoo You was cobbled together as an outtakes album spanning 9 years, whereas Steel Wheels was written and recorded together over 9 months. And the guitars have real muscle and guts, indicative of a band who was still willing to roll up their sleeves and take on the best of what the rock of that time had to offer. It was truly the last of their "current" albums.

I did a listening experiment for myself one day where I listened to all their 80s albums straight through and back-to back. Things started to go awry with Undercover, which was half and half and hit and miss. Things really became a jumble with Dirty Work, which sounds like three different bands making three different albums at once. Steel Wheels is the light at the end of that 80s tunnel, a pleasurable, integrated , and balanced listening experience from start to finish.

And the band seems to regard it highly as well. Over a decade and a half, 75% of the album has been presented live to a concert audience at one time or another. How many have they played off of Undercover or Dirty Work? Hell, they've played more songs off of Steel Wheels than they played off of Tattoo You. That alone should tell you something.

<spanning 9 years>

With a very few exceptions, spanning only 2 years.

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DandelionPowderman
<spanning 9 years>

With a very few exceptions, spanning only 2 years.

Waiting On A Friend is a pretty big exception--a top 20 exception, and the only exception from TY besides Start Me Up that they've played live in 2013.

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
<spanning 9 years>

With a very few exceptions, spanning only 2 years.

Waiting On A Friend is a pretty big exception--a top 20 exception, and the only exception from TY besides Start Me Up that they've played live in 2013.

Of course, so is Tops (SMU, HF, LT&A and BL were also started earlier, but the versions on TY are mostly from 79)

Most of the album is from 1979/80, though - that's why the "tossed together outtakes-reputation" isn't quite accurate, imo.

Nah, what was it Paul said about his own 'Maxwell's Silverhammer'? Let's record my silly song (to Ringo and George...they also recorded Ringo's Octopus's Garden that evening while John were busy smoking dope with Yoko and Peter Brown)...

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DandelionPowderman

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
<spanning 9 years>

With a very few exceptions, spanning only 2 years.

Waiting On A Friend is a pretty big exception--a top 20 exception, and the only exception from TY besides Start Me Up that they've played live in 2013.

Of course, so is Tops (SMU, HF, LT&A and BL were also started earlier, but the versions on TY are mostly from 79)

Most of the album is from 1979/80, though - that's why the "tossed together outtakes-reputation" isn't quite accurate, imo.

By that standard then, the Exile bonus disc is packed with new material. That's the Stones album of 2010. We don't have to wait for them to follow ABB, they already did it. Plundered and all the rest were started earlier, but the versions on Exile BD are mostly from 09.

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Come On
Nah, what was it Paul said about his own 'Maxwell's Silverhammer'? Let's record my silly song (to Ringo and George...they also recorded Ringo's Octopus's Garden that evening while John were busy smoking dope with Yoko and Peter Brown)...

Nice story, but why? Had It With You is a silly song, like the ones you mentioned?

Can't really see the comedy in it myself - apart from the over-the-top-lyrics, that is

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
Nah, what was it Paul said about his own 'Maxwell's Silverhammer'? Let's record my silly song (to Ringo and George...they also recorded Ringo's Octopus's Garden that evening while John were busy smoking dope with Yoko and Peter Brown)...

Nice story, but why? Had It With You is a silly song, like the ones you mentioned?

Can't really see the comedy in it myself - apart from the over-the-top-lyrics, that is

OK, sorry if I'm walking on thin ice on this one but Rock'n'Roll? Had it with you?
More bubble-gum if you ask me, or John or Thunders...

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
Nah, what was it Paul said about his own 'Maxwell's Silverhammer'? Let's record my silly song (to Ringo and George...they also recorded Ringo's Octopus's Garden that evening while John were busy smoking dope with Yoko and Peter Brown)...

Nice story, but why? Had It With You is a silly song, like the ones you mentioned?

Can't really see the comedy in it myself - apart from the over-the-top-lyrics, that is

OK, sorry if I'm walking on thin ice on this one but Rock'n'Roll? Had it with you?
More bubble-gum if you ask me, or John or Thunders...

How can four guys, two guitars, a sax and a harp (no bass!) be bubbble gum?

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stonehearted
Yes, Steel Wheels is a strong album. Tattoo You was cobbled together as an outtakes album spanning 9 years, whereas Steel Wheels was written and recorded together over 9 months. And the guitars have real muscle and guts, indicative of a band who was still willing to roll up their sleeves and take on the best of what the rock of that time had to offer. It was truly the last of their "current" albums.

I did a listening experiment for myself one day where I listened to all their 80s albums straight through and back-to back. Things started to go awry with Undercover, which was half and half and hit and miss. Things really became a jumble with Dirty Work, which sounds like three different bands making three different albums at once. Steel Wheels is the light at the end of that 80s tunnel, a pleasurable, integrated , and balanced listening experience from start to finish.

And the band seems to regard it highly as well. Over a decade and a half, 75% of the album has been presented live to a concert audience at one time or another. How many have they played off of Undercover or Dirty Work? Hell, they've played more songs off of Steel Wheels than they played off of Tattoo You. That alone should tell you something.

Nice. The only thing I would add is that the missing capstone to make Steel Wheels a true top shelf Stones album is a monster single. Mixed Emotions is a solid B-Plus A-side, but it lacks that special magic dust. Harlem Shuffle was better single. They didn't have a great single again until Rough Justice, and by then the entire market had changed and it didn't get the attention it deserved.

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
<spanning 9 years>

With a very few exceptions, spanning only 2 years.

Waiting On A Friend is a pretty big exception--a top 20 exception, and the only exception from TY besides Start Me Up that they've played live in 2013.

Of course, so is Tops (SMU, HF, LT&A and BL were also started earlier, but the versions on TY are mostly from 79)

Most of the album is from 1979/80, though - that's why the "tossed together outtakes-reputation" isn't quite accurate, imo.

By that standard then, the Exile bonus disc is packed with new material. That's the Stones album of 2010. We don't have to wait for them to follow ABB, they already did it. Plundered and all the rest were started earlier, but the versions on Exile BD are mostly from 09.

Not correct.

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CanYouHearTheMusic

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Mathijs

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seitan
crappy album but much better than Undercover. - Undercover is the worst rock album in history of popular music, - dirty work album was just ..mediocre.

Interesting how opinions and musical taste can differ so much -I find Undercover to be in the top 5 of Best Ever Stones albums.

Mathijs

While not currently in my top 5, which is ever changing, Undercover *has* been in my top five before as well! Phenomenally underrated album, Mathijs, I agree! Killer production (FAT drums and bass!), experimental direction much of the time, great grooves. Nuff said!

It's the last great album. Guitars are blazing.

I must say that this thread is one of the best here on iorr for long time. Thanks for that, minimum of bad jokes and bullshit more of our different opinions and respect for ourselfs the stones and others, not talking about asslicking
Btw. i LOVE Wanna Hold You From Undercover. especially the guitarwork from Ronnie on the outtake (few minutes into it he is just flying) and those drums of Charlie on the live version for ex St.Louis 97 are one of the best i´ve heard.

I listened to this song today. I liked it more than I remembered so I spun the rest of DW and my opinion has not changed on the album - it is still a turd. However this song is interesting for not having any bass and some nice guitar work. Jagger seems to not be inspired and sleep walking as he is on most of Dirty Work.

I think he's singing his arse off on this one. Why does he sound uninspired?

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DandelionPowderman
I think he's singing his arse off on this one. Why does he sound uninspired?

It's a Silly Song...

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman
I think he's singing his arse off on this one. Why does he sound uninspired?

It's a Silly Song...

You can't be silly AND inspired?

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman
I think he's singing his arse off on this one. Why does he sound uninspired?

It's a Silly Song...

You can't be silly AND inspired?

Maybe on a Silly Song like Had it with you. Listen to Frank Sinatra on Old McDonald...that's a Silly song but Frank is inspired as usual...BTW...it's a mean harp-solo on Had it...can't take that fact away....

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman
I think he's singing his arse off on this one. Why does he sound uninspired?

It's a Silly Song...

You can't be silly AND inspired?

Maybe on a Silly Song like Had it with you. Listen to Frank Sinatra on Old McDonald...that's a Silly song but Frank is inspired as usual...BTW...it's a mean harp-solo on Had it...can't take that fact away....

And some mean guitar playing. The SOUND Keith has on this one is unbelievably great

I don't think Mick wanted to be a Rolling Stone during this period in his life. I feel he was not up to par on the entire DW album. Had It With You is a better vocal then most of the album. I should not base my comments based on the rest of the album he is actually pretty good on Had It With You, One Hit, Harlem Shuffle and the tile track. I just generally don't like the album and have trouble speaking positive things about it maybe I should just refrain from posting about it.

Listened to DW today for the first time in ten years, at least. My God, it is even worse than I remembered. I will take One Hit and Too Rude, the rest are varying shades of garbage. After listening to an almost unchanging drumbeat for 90% of the album, I couldnt take anymore and stopped at Sleep Tonight.

Don't get the comparisons to Undercover. To me, that's good 80s Stones, this being the bad. A complete flatline of an album, far worse than even Emotional Rescue.