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LookoutMountain


But money? Mick Taylor's contribution to the coffers of the RS is immeasurable. His artistry priceless. This is now becoming widely understood.
What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

I don't really understand why people classify MJ and KR (and the Stones as a business machine, which is what they are IN ADDITION to being much more) as anything different than any successful businessman. The old world of Rich people who graduated Eaton and wearing Savill Row stripe suites, spending time in Gentleman clubs at St. James VS. commoners who actually work and sweat, speak in common accent and drink beer - that world is gone. Lots of people who start in the rebellious side of life end up in the millionaire club. And the vast majority of millionaires, as the TRUE cliche says, "did not make money by easily spending it". I guess that most of us who are over, lets say... 30? already met/know at least a couple of wealthy people (really wealthy, not someone owning a 1000K Pounds house in London). We should know that while some can be easy on their money when it comes to their own personal leisure (or PR) they are not like that when it gets to business. In many chances (also due to nature of profession) I met, traveled and ate with rich people - some were 3rd generation of money, some were young High Tec people who did a super successful "exit". People one can check about online and see they have lots of money. Rarely would such people act much differently with their money than any high paid employee in the financial/law/high tec industries. Tips for waiters, rental agreement for his student daughters flat, cost for drinks at the hotels bar, full fares of airline 1st class tickets - they are almost never easy on that. I think we mistake the Michel Jackson type of millionaire with the type most are.

Now I do not think we would be badmouthing MJ or KR assuming they are more of the above than of the opposite. They are businessman - at leat MJ do not spent much time looking back. I would assume they do not think Taylor was scammed more than anyone creating music back in those days. 2 songs reunion? YES. "Settling disputes" hardcore fans believe as existing as if they are on the deathbeds and asking for forgiveness from a Catholic priest? not likely. Not by money. Not by deeds. They might be the RS to us, but for them selves, outside the 120 minutes on stage - they are people like me and you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-05 10:01 by Wroclaw.

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

I've known plenty of rock stars and many of them are super stingy, I once was on line at a deli with a rock star guitarist client who had a pile of groceries, I had a Snickers Bar, he whispered to the cashier "separate". . I never saw Mick or Keith act that way for a second, towards anyone, I can't speak for the really big money but for day to day stuff they always threw down and were easily the most generous rock band I ever knew.

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DoomandGloom
I've known plenty of rock stars and many of them are super stingy, I once was on line at a deli with a rock star guitarist client who had a pile of groceries, I had a Snickers Bar, he whispered to the cashier "separate". . I never saw Mick or Keith act that way for a second, towards anyone, I can't speak for the really big money but for day to day stuff they always threw down and were easily the most generous rock band I ever knew.

Refreshing to get something first hand, verses all the speculation that people seem to get their knickers in a twist over.

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DoomandGloom
I've known plenty of rock stars and many of them are super stingy, I once was on line at a deli with a rock star guitarist client who had a pile of groceries, I had a Snickers Bar, he whispered to the cashier "separate".

Sorry but I guess I hit a wall with my English... (seriously). What did you mean? that the guy was generous or petty? Thanks.

They were very generous to themselves as for the ticket prices as I've understood.

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Wroclaw

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DoomandGloom
I've known plenty of rock stars and many of them are super stingy, I once was on line at a deli with a rock star guitarist client who had a pile of groceries, I had a Snickers Bar, he whispered to the cashier "separate".

Sorry but I guess I hit a wall with my English... (seriously). What did you mean? that the guy was generous or petty? Thanks.

Doom was with said rock star and the rock star whispered "seperate" as in rockstar will pay for their own groceries, doom will pay for the snickers bar.

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His Majesty

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Wroclaw

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DoomandGloom
I've known plenty of rock stars and many of them are super stingy, I once was on line at a deli with a rock star guitarist client who had a pile of groceries, I had a Snickers Bar, he whispered to the cashier "separate".

Sorry but I guess I hit a wall with my English... (seriously). What did you mean? that the guy was generous or petty? Thanks.

Doom was with said rock star and the rock star whispered "seperate" as in rockstar will pay for their own groceries, doom will pay for the snickers bar.

OK... got it.... thanks. Well me, at most, recall some minor star puttin in the glass cup a 150% of the value of the cup of coffee he just bought...

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

Actually I do not assume anything of the kind. Though I might ask you how you can assume they did compensate him generously?

As this thread topic was intended to discuss the recent tour, not overall compensation for the last few decades, I'm afraid I have muddied the water a little by suggesting they owe him much more than they could ever repay. In other words, as has been suggested here and elsewhere, that this reunion tour for MT is an opportunity to compensate him for any legal claim to back royalties owed. But that notion is based on persistent rumors that he was written out of royalties after he left the band when the RS changed their business plan, yaddayaddaya. I do not know for sure, but it appears that MT would be enjoying a different lifestyle if he had secured a consistent, healthy cash flow that matched his contributions to the band, which include royalties for playing on songs songs (let alone the songwriting credits he was promised) on some of the greatest-selling records of all time.

To summarize, no assumptions -- just hypotheticals, based on info gleaned here, which is rife with rumor and innuendo. I would not be chiming in if I did not care about these guys and hope that they work it out to everyone's satisfaction -- they owe it to themselves to do so, rock star ego trips aside.

I don't think that Mick, Keith, Ronnie, and Charlie are without consciences or ethics. Plus they have children who probably knew about Mick Taylor as well. They knew he was struggling. They helped him out. As part of any business courses these days, you are taught to be ethical and conduct your business accordingly.

It would be a big negative for the Stones brand if they didn't help Mick Taylor out since for years they did cut him out. This was a big negative that Mick Jagger had to repair. Mick Jagger may have been ruthless at times in the past, but I do think he is the kind of person who thrives on learning new things and improving himself. Especially during the last 20 years or so. He's very smart.

I would think that Mick Taylor, if he stays clean and sober, will be very happy from here on out. He really fit in on stage with the band and the interaction between all of them was very good and it improved greatly if you watch the beginning of the tour all the way to Hyde Park.

Well said SanQ! peace

Yes, well said sanQ, I am in agreement with your hypothesis! And from your lips to God's ears, as they say.

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Rockman
....he started out in sneakers then the ended the tour in blue suede shoes ....

So he only got a pair of shoes?

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

The truth is that Mick and Keith both are very tight with money. There has been many exemple of that in the past, a bit silly.

Mick is notoriously cheap; there are a lot of statements from others, eg Jerry Hall, Marsha Hunt, Marshall Chess and Jeff Beck, documenting this. No idea about Keith, but presumably he goes along with Mick.

I suspect Mick Taylor got paid at the same level the other guests did, and they are pretty big stars. And he will probably get royalties from any recordings from the concerts.

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LookoutMountain

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

Actually I do not assume anything of the kind. Though I might ask you how you can assume they did compensate him generously?

As this thread topic was intended to discuss the recent tour, not overall compensation for the last few decades, I'm afraid I have muddied the water a little by suggesting they owe him much more than they could ever repay. In other words, as has been suggested here and elsewhere, that this reunion tour for MT is an opportunity to compensate him for any legal claim to back royalties owed. But that notion is based on persistent rumors that he was written out of royalties after he left the band when the RS changed their business plan, yaddayaddaya. I do not know for sure, but it appears that MT would be enjoying a different lifestyle if he had secured a consistent, healthy cash flow that matched his contributions to the band, which include royalties for playing on songs songs (let alone the songwriting credits he was promised) on some of the greatest-selling records of all time.

To summarize, no assumptions -- just hypotheticals, based on info gleaned here, which is rife with rumor and innuendo. I would not be chiming in if I did not care about these guys and hope that they work it out to everyone's satisfaction -- they owe it to themselves to do so, rock star ego trips aside.

If they hadn't, he wouldn't have done it. Simple as that. MT is not a child.

All I'm saying is that it's more likely that he is well-compensated on this tour, than not.

It's pretty safe to assume that pre-2012 concerts, MT was not being compensated for any prior RS work. Everything we have seen and read about his situation supports this assumption. The RS are not a charity. We just have to hope that MT's agent negotiated a good deal for him, considering that his participation was a big selling point for these concerts.

Edited to add: [www.dailymail.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-06 14:44 by Bliss.

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Bliss
Everything we have seen and read about his situation supports this assumption.

... assumption ... that's what it is

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

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Bliss
Mick is notoriously cheap; there are a lot of statements from others, eg Jerry Hall, Marsha Hunt, Marshall Chess and Jeff Beck, documenting this. No idea about Keith, but presumably he goes along with Mick.

I suspect Mick Taylor got paid at the same level the other guests did, and they are pretty big stars. And he will probably get royalties from any recordings from the concerts.

The only one at this board who has experience with this says otherwise.

Ex-girlfriends and ex-employees aren't really the best sources?

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Bliss
It's pretty safe to assume that pre-2012 concerts, MT was not being compensated for any prior RS work. Everything we have seen and read about his situation supports this assumption. The RS are not a charity. We just have to hope that MT's agent negotiated a good deal for him, considering that his participation was a big selling point for these concerts.

Edited to add: [www.dailymail.co.uk]

Well, it's never "safe" to assume anything

What do you mean by "pre-2012 concerts, MT was not being compensated for any prior RS work"?

You don't think he got paid for Plundered My Soul? He didn't get his performing credits for the albums he was on? He didn't get his songwriting credits for Ventilator Blues? He didn't get his credits for being a partner in Rolling Stones Records?

I'm not being difficult, just curious about what you were thinking of here



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-06 14:51 by DandelionPowderman.

DP - Just from the article (link) posted above. Perhaps I should have said, "not compensated to any great extent".

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

Actually I do not assume anything of the kind. Though I might ask you how you can assume they did compensate him generously?

As this thread topic was intended to discuss the recent tour, not overall compensation for the last few decades, I'm afraid I have muddied the water a little by suggesting they owe him much more than they could ever repay. In other words, as has been suggested here and elsewhere, that this reunion tour for MT is an opportunity to compensate him for any legal claim to back royalties owed. But that notion is based on persistent rumors that he was written out of royalties after he left the band when the RS changed their business plan, yaddayaddaya. I do not know for sure, but it appears that MT would be enjoying a different lifestyle if he had secured a consistent, healthy cash flow that matched his contributions to the band, which include royalties for playing on songs songs (let alone the songwriting credits he was promised) on some of the greatest-selling records of all time.

To summarize, no assumptions -- just hypotheticals, based on info gleaned here, which is rife with rumor and innuendo. I would not be chiming in if I did not care about these guys and hope that they work it out to everyone's satisfaction -- they owe it to themselves to do so, rock star ego trips aside.

If they hadn't, he wouldn't have done it. Simple as that. MT is not a child.

All I'm saying is that it's more likely that he is well-compensated on this tour, than not.

More than likely you are right! And that's cool cause I certainly do not take Mick Taylor to be a child that might agree to anything less than what he deserves. My point about RS compensating him "generously" on this tour is specifically in reference to the widespread, historical understanding that he got shafted from his proper allocation of credits/royalties from the notoriously tightfisted RS, which, in the wisdom of their richer-than-god, sobered-up, grateful and gracious hindsight, might justify an extra "bump," as has been suggested by others.

I would hope their reputation was not really as bad as it sounds, but the prevailing opinion is that it is that bad. Taylor, the Golden Child of the brief but Golden Years, does not appear to be enjoying financial fruits commensurate with his contribution towards the fortunes of the RS. Don't know the details but it does seem obvious something is not right.

I am really happy to hear your confidence that he is getting his due this time. If it were up to ME, I would add "and then some," but so would anyone else who appreciates his music. No doubt just being there was a bonus for MT (and as I've indicated earlier perhaps for him, even more significant than money; this does not make him a child btw) but that is besides the point, and might dilute the significance of a dollar amount, if you are a savvy haggler.

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LookoutMountain

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

Actually I do not assume anything of the kind. Though I might ask you how you can assume they did compensate him generously?

As this thread topic was intended to discuss the recent tour, not overall compensation for the last few decades, I'm afraid I have muddied the water a little by suggesting they owe him much more than they could ever repay. In other words, as has been suggested here and elsewhere, that this reunion tour for MT is an opportunity to compensate him for any legal claim to back royalties owed. But that notion is based on persistent rumors that he was written out of royalties after he left the band when the RS changed their business plan, yaddayaddaya. I do not know for sure, but it appears that MT would be enjoying a different lifestyle if he had secured a consistent, healthy cash flow that matched his contributions to the band, which include royalties for playing on songs songs (let alone the songwriting credits he was promised) on some of the greatest-selling records of all time.

To summarize, no assumptions -- just hypotheticals, based on info gleaned here, which is rife with rumor and innuendo. I would not be chiming in if I did not care about these guys and hope that they work it out to everyone's satisfaction -- they owe it to themselves to do so, rock star ego trips aside.

If they hadn't, he wouldn't have done it. Simple as that. MT is not a child.

All I'm saying is that it's more likely that he is well-compensated on this tour, than not.

More than likely you are right! And that's cool cause I certainly do not take Mick Taylor to be a child that might agree to anything less than what he deserves. My point about RS compensating him "generously" on this tour is specifically in reference to the widespread, historical understanding that he got shafted from his proper allocation of credits/royalties from the notoriously tightfisted RS, which, in the wisdom of their richer-than-god, sobered-up, grateful and gracious hindsight, might justify an extra "bump," as has been suggested by others.

I would hope their reputation was not really as bad as it sounds, but the prevailing opinion is that it is that bad. Taylor, the Golden Child of the brief but Golden Years, does not appear to be enjoying financial fruits commensurate with his contribution towards the fortunes of the RS. Don't know the details but it does seem obvious something is not right.

I am really happy to hear your confidence that he is getting his due this time. If it were up to ME, I would add "and then some," but so would anyone else who appreciates his music. No doubt just being there was a bonus for MT (and as I've indicated earlier perhaps for him, even more significant than money; this does not make him a child btw) but that is besides the point, and might dilute the significance of a dollar amount, if you are a savvy haggler.

The whole "Taylor not being paid well-YES/NO" situation brings me to ask (wonder if anyone knows...):

Before RW became a "full member" after BW's departure, how "well" he was paid? I dont mean numbers but wonder if in that pre internet world there were any whispers amond hard core fans about this? did people were aware at all he wasnt actually a member? just asking.

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LookoutMountain

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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DandelionPowderman

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LookoutMountain

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Aquamarine

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LookoutMountain


What a joke to withhold from Mick Taylor. Jagger/Richards with all their excessive millions, have it on their heads to make it right. Greed -- for what else could it be? negligence? -- is their messed up karma, not his.

How do you know they're not paying him every cent he deserves? (And everyone will have a different opinion of what that is, but let's just say every cent HE feels he deserves.) There seems to be an assumption that he's being underpaid, whereas I've seen no proof of that.

Sorry Aquamarine, you misunderstand my point. I do not mean to disparage the RS or assert that they are not doing the right thing by MT. Just stating that they would be foolish NOT to compensate him generously, in recognition of his considerable contribution toward building their assets.

But why even assume that they didn't compensate him generously? Of course they did.

Actually I do not assume anything of the kind. Though I might ask you how you can assume they did compensate him generously?

As this thread topic was intended to discuss the recent tour, not overall compensation for the last few decades, I'm afraid I have muddied the water a little by suggesting they owe him much more than they could ever repay. In other words, as has been suggested here and elsewhere, that this reunion tour for MT is an opportunity to compensate him for any legal claim to back royalties owed. But that notion is based on persistent rumors that he was written out of royalties after he left the band when the RS changed their business plan, yaddayaddaya. I do not know for sure, but it appears that MT would be enjoying a different lifestyle if he had secured a consistent, healthy cash flow that matched his contributions to the band, which include royalties for playing on songs songs (let alone the songwriting credits he was promised) on some of the greatest-selling records of all time.

To summarize, no assumptions -- just hypotheticals, based on info gleaned here, which is rife with rumor and innuendo. I would not be chiming in if I did not care about these guys and hope that they work it out to everyone's satisfaction -- they owe it to themselves to do so, rock star ego trips aside.

If they hadn't, he wouldn't have done it. Simple as that. MT is not a child.

All I'm saying is that it's more likely that he is well-compensated on this tour, than not.

More than likely you are right! And that's cool cause I certainly do not take Mick Taylor to be a child that might agree to anything less than what he deserves. My point about RS compensating him "generously" on this tour is specifically in reference to the widespread, historical understanding that he got shafted from his proper allocation of credits/royalties from the notoriously tightfisted RS, which, in the wisdom of their richer-than-god, sobered-up, grateful and gracious hindsight, might justify an extra "bump," as has been suggested by others.

I would hope their reputation was not really as bad as it sounds, but the prevailing opinion is that it is that bad. Taylor, the Golden Child of the brief but Golden Years, does not appear to be enjoying financial fruits commensurate with his contribution towards the fortunes of the RS. Don't know the details but it does seem obvious something is not right.

I am really happy to hear your confidence that he is getting his due this time. If it were up to ME, I would add "and then some," but so would anyone else who appreciates his music. No doubt just being there was a bonus for MT (and as I've indicated earlier perhaps for him, even more significant than money; this does not make him a child btw) but that is besides the point, and might dilute the significance of a dollar amount, if you are a savvy haggler.

As bad as Prince Rupert and the others might have been in 1981, I'm sure that it wasn't as bad as the rumours say.

Why? Pur yourself in MT's place. Would you have gone on tour with a band you quit, band mates who robbed you? Probably not. My guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle. There is so much that we don't know about this.

So Woody became a member not until 1993, after having 'played' in the band for 18 years!

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kleermaker
So Woody became a member not until 1993, after having 'played' in the band for 18 years!

Partly because he wanted it this way himself.

So, to sum this up, no one here really knows. It's just talk...

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Stoneage
So, to sum this up, no one here really knows. It's just talk...

Yep, and add the fact that the article posted in this thread is dubious at best

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneage
So, to sum this up, no one here really knows. It's just talk...

Yep, and add the fact that the article posted in this thread is dubious at best

He got his fair share of abuse. So much is certain.

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker
So Woody became a member not until 1993, after having 'played' in the band for 18 years!

Partly because he wanted it this way himself.

Some additional info on membership: [www.iorr.org]