Uh, Kleermaker, that was totally necessary. You shouldn't be ashamed of yourself.

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
RockinJive
Played it once. That was enough. Terrible song.

When you listen to it on this vid you'll certainly gonna like it.

I love that song!!!

A cheaqp and tacky video for a cheap and tacky song. ><

Because it's not that interesting, like all the other guff from that album that came out in the reissue. PMS was probably the best, but still not very good. I much preferred the "new" stuff on Some Girls, would have loved to see a few of those tracks.

We're selling in PMS with tackiness now??

Quote
Room1009
Because it's not that interesting, like all the other guff from that album that came out in the reissue. PMS was probably the best, but still not very good. I much preferred the "new" stuff on Some Girls, would have loved to see a few of those tracks.

1969 Loving Cup is ace though, pity they put out a wonky edited version.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Room1009
Because it's not that interesting, like all the other guff from that album that came out in the reissue. PMS was probably the best, but still not very good. I much preferred the "new" stuff on Some Girls, would have loved to see a few of those tracks.

1969 Loving Cup is ace though, pity they put out a wonky edited version.

The guitar sound on that one reminds me of one of my amps

when i first heard that song i thought "its perfect,they recreated the exile sound" but something was a little off, something missing.

after a few listens it came to me.mick and keith arent doing the harmony vocals- its a huge mistake and it ruins an otherwise perfect song.

they had everything right,the guitars,the backing vocals and they just blew it.

those vocals.we've all seen the picture of them at the mic with a bottle of whiskey.are these guys really at odds to the point they couldnt just fcking sing a song together into a damn microphone?

we're never getting another great stones song,those two...i dont know them and i'm sure everyones got their side of the story but ...its just sad.

Quote
lem motlow
when i first heard that song i thought "its perfect,they recreated the exile sound" but something was a little off, something missing.

after a few listens it came to me.mick and keith arent doing the harmony vocals- its a huge mistake and it ruins an otherwise perfect song.

they had everything right,the guitars,the backing vocals and they just blew it.

those vocals.we've all seen the picture of them at the mic with a bottle of whiskey.are these guys really at odds to the point they couldnt just fcking sing a song together into a damn microphone?

we're never getting another great stones song,those two...i dont know them and i'm sure everyones got their side of the story but ...its just sad.

I agree with your entire post but I still like the song despite that. I thought they did an admirable emulation on the Mick/Keith harmony. In fact I'd bet Keith couldn't do the 'old Keith' anymore vocally, so perhaps this is the best we can get?

If it is, I'd go for it because I think it holds up very well.

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
lem motlow
when i first heard that song i thought "its perfect,they recreated the exile sound" but something was a little off, something missing.

after a few listens it came to me.mick and keith arent doing the harmony vocals- its a huge mistake and it ruins an otherwise perfect song.

they had everything right,the guitars,the backing vocals and they just blew it.

those vocals.we've all seen the picture of them at the mic with a bottle of whiskey.are these guys really at odds to the point they couldnt just fcking sing a song together into a damn microphone?

we're never getting another great stones song,those two...i dont know them and i'm sure everyones got their side of the story but ...its just sad.

I agree with your entire post but I still like the song despite that. I thought they did an admirable emulation on the Mick/Keith harmony. In fact I'd bet Keith couldn't do the 'old Keith' anymore vocally, so perhaps this is the best we can get?

If it is, I'd go for it because I think it holds up very well.

If it was 10 years ago Keith may have been able to nail those high harmony notes. As it is Jagger did it at age 67 or whatever - as in, STILL able to sing those kind of absurd notes. While still achieving a similar sound. Sue the bitch then.

Good point by lem metlow about Keith's backing vocals. True if they really would like have make it "authentic" it would have needed those. But against GasLightStreet's estimation I would claim that Keith lost those vocal chords already by the late-70's, and he would never sound again like he did back those days. Among other qualities, I think EXILE is Keith's peak record as a singer. His back vocs were simply stunning, and created quite a lot of the album's feel. In some tunes, it sounds like Mick and Keith were having a duet, and their peak voices matched beautifully to each other.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-15 09:32 by Doxa.

But as far as the "authenticity" goes, that hasn't worried me too much, because the whole tune is something we didn't have any clue prior its release. I mean, that thing is more problematic in certain SOME GIRLS bonus tracks, since we had already some wonderful bootleg tracks with original vocals, against to which compare the new versions (mostly to do with Jagger's vocals). If put under microscope, there is a lot of "anomalies" in "Plundered" - such as Jagger's late day manouvres in his voice, the tone of Taylor's guitar, and actually how front both of them are mixed - but I think it still beautifully presents the Exile "feel", which for me is the most important thing. And most of all, it simply sounds capturing, timeless, great (which - wait a minute -are EXILE's features?). Like mentioned in my above posts, the key to "magic" is the backing track - Wyman, Charlie, Keith, Nicky - that's something one can not never re-produce. Thanks god for keeping that at the vaults.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa
But as far as the "authenticity" goes, that hasn't worried me too much, because the whole tune is something we didn't have any clue prior its release. I mean, that thing is more problematic in certain SOME GIRLS bonus tracks, since we had already some wonderful bootleg tracks with original vocals, against to which compare the new versions (mostly to do with Jagger's vocals). If put under microscope, there is a lot of "anomalies" in "Plundered" - such as Jagger's late day manouvres in his voice, the tone of Taylor's guitar, and actually how front both of them are mixed - but I think it still beautifully presents the Exile "feel", which for me is the most important thing. And most of all, it simply sounds capturing, timeless, great (which - wait a minute -are EXILE's features?). Like mentioned in my above posts, the key to "magic" is the backing track - Wyman, Charlie, Keith, Nicky - that's something one can not never re-produce. Thanks god for keeping that at the vaults.

- Doxa

I think it is Charlie, Nicky and Bill who give that song the "Exile-feel".

Keith's guitar is low in the mix, and Taylor's guitar is more spiky-souding than it would have been back then.

Lisa and Cindy make it authentic, too, btw. I like the backing vocals. A bit of the Let It Loose-feel.

Keith can still sing way more high-pitched than Mick, but he doesn't sound as "choir boy-like" as he did in 1971 - that ship has sailed

Quote
RockinJive

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
RockinJive
Played it once. That was enough. Terrible song.

When you listen to it on this vid you'll certainly gonna like it.

I love that song!!!

Oh yes, me too. Love it!!!

Quote
More Hot Rocks

Quote
His Majesty
Just a load of guitar fills that wouldn't have received much if any focus had Taylor's involvement not been mentioned.

Totally agree. It's just a throw way tune. That should of never been brought back.

Just a load of non descript, meaningless bullshit comments!

Quote
Doxa
But as far as the "authenticity" goes, that hasn't worried me too much, because the whole tune is something we didn't have any clue prior its release. I mean, that thing is more problematic in certain SOME GIRLS bonus tracks, since we had already some wonderful bootleg tracks with original vocals, against to which compare the new versions (mostly to do with Jagger's vocals). If put under microscope, there is a lot of "anomalies" in "Plundered" - such as Jagger's late day manouvres in his voice, the tone of Taylor's guitar, and actually how front both of them are mixed - but I think it still beautifully presents the Exile "feel", which for me is the most important thing. And most of all, it simply sounds capturing, timeless, great (which - wait a minute -are EXILE's features?). Like mentioned in my above posts, the key to "magic" is the backing track - Wyman, Charlie, Keith, Nicky - that's something one can not never re-produce. Thanks god for keeping that at the vaults.

- Doxa

Very good point about it capturing the Exile feel.
PMS in particular [and other tracks to a lesser degree] allows you to believe that, had things worked out a bit differently on the day , It could easily have ended up on the album. It's a track typical of where the band were at that time, with nothing forced or contrived about it.

It also highlights a big difference between the Exile "Out takes" & the SG bonus material.

I love the SG stuff as an album in own right...but it's nothing like SG !
It's kind of an indication of what a conscious concept the SG album was.
It's almost like the bonus material is stuff the band were playing for fun when they weren't making a record !

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I think it is Charlie, Nicky and Bill who give that song the "Exile-feel".

Keith's guitar is low in the mix,

Low in the mix? This is what listening to DIRTY WORK and VOODOO LOUNGE does to people... It is exactly this kind of delicated use of sounds that makes EXILE and many other other classical Stones albums so tasteful in creating the feel of musical landscapes. I think Keith's guitar is very essential to the groove of the song. If it wouldn't be there, something crucial would be missing (perhaps the whole song).

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I think it is Charlie, Nicky and Bill who give that song the "Exile-feel".

Keith's guitar is low in the mix,

Low in the mix? This is what listening to DIRTY WORK and VOODOO LOUNGE does to people... It is exactly this kind of delicated use of sounds that makes EXILE and many other other classical Stones albums so tasteful in creating the feel of musical landscapes. I think Keith's guitar is very essential to the groove of the song. If it wouldn't be there, something crucial would be missing (perhaps the whole song).

- Doxa

Of course it is, but there might be a reason for it being low in the mix, compared to the rest of Exile, which has Keith HIGH in the mix and Mick J. low in the mix.

I think they didn't have the sufficient guitar track recording of Keith, and looped it - hence they pushed it down in the mix.

The guitar IS essential to the groove - for the first minute or so... Listen again.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I think it is Charlie, Nicky and Bill who give that song the "Exile-feel".

Keith's guitar is low in the mix,

Low in the mix? This is what listening to DIRTY WORK and VOODOO LOUNGE does to people... It is exactly this kind of delicated use of sounds that makes EXILE and many other other classical Stones albums so tasteful in creating the feel of musical landscapes. I think Keith's guitar is very essential to the groove of the song. If it wouldn't be there, something crucial would be missing (perhaps the whole song).

- Doxa

That layering of parts and subtlety of feel is half the magic with all their best work.

...And I'm not too sure to what degree modern recording and production processes have compromised that element of their game.

A typical Exile track, no?

Quote
DandelionPowderman
... Listen again.

You go and listen again! You have something to learn there, I know exactly how great track it is...

But gladly I do that... the track just gets more and more capturing by each listening.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman
... Listen again.

You go and listen again! You have something to learn there, I know exactly how great track it is...

But gladly I do that... the track just gets more and more capturing by each listening.

- Doxa

You don't hear anything suspicious with Keith's guitar track?

Quote
Spud
It's a track typical of where the band were at that time, with nothing forced or contrived about it.

Greatly put! I think those qualities - nothing forced and contrived - actually apply generally to the Stones in their creative peak (that for me means, roughly, their first two decades), and very much lack in their later-day stuff. There are exceptions in both, though.

- Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman
... Listen again.

You go and listen again! You have something to learn there, I know exactly how great track it is...

But gladly I do that... the track just gets more and more capturing by each listening.

- Doxa

You don't hear anything suspicious with Keith's guitar track?

Damn good point Dandelion...nice catch BTW.

First of all Mick sings harmony with himself in Keith's range on Casino Boogie.video: [www.youtube.com] This way of singing with yourself was later lifted by Axle Rose.. Plundered would make a great stage song but without a radio push not enough people would care and we must accept this as the bottom line for a modern Stones concert as we have seen. Don Was really missed the bus on these Exile outtake mixes, the lead vocals are much louder than those on Exile. I'm sure Mick had a hand in this as well but next time they should just post the individual tracks on IORR and take the best fan mix. Most of us would do better.

Quote
Doxa
Good point by lem metlow about Keith's backing vocals. True if they really would like have make it "authentic" it would have needed those. But against GasLightStreet's estimation I would claim that Keith lost those vocal chords already by the late-70's, and he would never sound again like he did back those days. Among other qualities, I think EXILE is Keith's peak record as a singer. His back vocs were simply stunning, and created quite a lot of the album's feel. In some tunes, it sounds like Mick and Keith were having a duet, and their peak voices matched beautifully to each other.

- Doxa

Agreed. Listen to Keith on Torn and Frayed from Vancouver, that's great stuff, he even remembers the words well. By 78 and esp 81, that tone was gone, although it was great to hear Keith and Ronnie(sometime hilariously bad) on so many back ups then.

Quote
DoomandGloom
First of all Mick sings harmony with himself in Keith's range on Casino Boogie.video: [www.youtube.com] This way of singing with yourself was later lifted by Axle Rose.. Plundered would make a great stage song but without a radio push not enough people would care and we must accept this as the bottom line for a modern Stones concert as we have seen. Don Was really missed the bus on these Exile outtake mixes, the lead vocals are much louder than those on Exile. I'm sure Mick had a hand in this as well but next time they should just post the individual tracks on IORR and take the best fan mix. Most of us would do better.

No, he doesn't.

there's 2 jaggers on CB and not a double

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman
... Listen again.

You go and listen again! You have something to learn there, I know exactly how great track it is...

But gladly I do that... the track just gets more and more capturing by each listening.

- Doxa

You don't hear anything suspicious with Keith's guitar track?

Actually no. Be it partly looped or whatever, I don't care. It is good as it is. I don't think it is too low in mix at all; it fits well to the wholeness, and is an important factor in creating the feel... I guess you didn't catch my point about the lowness - yes, it is rather low, but I don't see any problem in that. The Stones back at the day were masters in handling the dynamical sides of songs like that, adding certain instruments - mostly guitars - one can't almost hear, but still being influental to the feel of the song (and not exactly the guitar nerd in the audience mind, but the very quality of the track). That was something they lost during the 80's. That's why I mentioned DIRTY WORK and VOODOO LOUNGE where everything is so damn upfront, and like written in bold letters to anyone to hear any instrument crystal clear. Maybe it was due to the times, and later technology.

Especially the whole EXILE is a masterpiece in creating fascinating musical landscapes, damn breathing and nuance-rich, with depthness. And most of all, anything was done in serving the wholeness, none had a value of its own, but only as a part of the whole. Probably the first listening of the album is like hearing a wild chaos - but little by little, every little nuance starts to have a meaningful place in the whole.

Yes, "Rocks Off" is a typical number of EXILE (like any song in the album), where those points I tried describe above really work well. Was your point to show that Keith's guitar was more high on the mix in contrast to "Plundered My Soul", which would mark a crucial difference? Yes, it is higher, but so what? It suited there very well, especially to the striking intro, but as the song goes, the rhythm guitar beautifully and damn tastely just backs up the song, not making any big fuss of itself; it is a part of the backing track, which actually is a crazy noisy sum of different instruments - Nicky, Bill, Charlie plus whoever - each of them feeding the feel and the drive of the song. I suppose they wanted the whole track to sound like one big noise (including vocals), where not any particular feature will not outshine the others (only showing some little glimmers). Just the band like one big organ playing an inspiring song. I think that effect is pretty much similar to "Plundered My Soul". The philosophy in creating the musical loundscape is very different there than with which they created, say, crystal clear "One Hit", or "Love Is Strong", or almost any song since UNDERCOVER.

People seem to sometimes think that EXILE is especially "guitar-driven" or "guitar-oriented" album. I protest here. For me the secret of the album that is it is band-driven and band-oriented - or song-driven or song-oriented. The guitars were just Keith's tool in creating wonderful musical landscapes, and along the way he crafted some wonderful stuff in that instrument - but that was a side-product, not an aim itself. Nor was the point to sound like Keith Richards, of whose signature sound everyone needs to hear crystal clear and immediately recognize. Compared to many Keith's guitar contributions ever since, and especially during "modern times", starting, say, with DIRTY WORK or STEEL WHEELS, manifested in VOODOO LOUNGE, they are not so outfront and distinguishable at all.

A key words: wholeness, dynamism, musical lanscape, chaos

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-15 20:38 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
Good point by lem metlow about Keith's backing vocals. True if they really would like have make it "authentic" it would have needed those. But against GasLightStreet's estimation I would claim that Keith lost those vocal chords already by the late-70's, and he would never sound again like he did back those days. Among other qualities, I think EXILE is Keith's peak record as a singer. His back vocs were simply stunning, and created quite a lot of the album's feel. In some tunes, it sounds like Mick and Keith were having a duet, and their peak voices matched beautifully to each other.

- Doxa

its amazing how much you hear those harmony vocals in almost every stones song up until the 80's,and how much it meant to their sound.
and not just the obvious ones-listen to brown sugar.keith is singing his ass off on that track.
i would disagree a bit about him losing his voice in the late 70s.he sounded like keith on some girls and on the barbarians tour in 79.
he was leading the band and his voice sounded GREAT.i saw 3 shows and he was really strong at each one.
i dont exactly dislike plunder my soul,its a nice song.if it was on bigger bang i would say"oh,thats really good" but when you say "exile track"thats a whole different league we're talking about.

i give don Was a bit of slack here,he's a prisoner of his time.like leonard cohen once said"digital music has no floor,it just floats there in space" -
there is one way the modern tech couldve helped though -lets put it this way,they could make britney sound like etta james if they wanted too,they could make keith sound like keith again.