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A mess, for sure - but DandelionPowderman is right about Nijmegen ... that's the vid I was thinkjng of. Scary and sad. And it seems to have disappeared.
But no matter: that was 2007 - we have a grinning Keith right now.
Very good assessment. There is more time between tours than ever now, so the drop-off is more evident. I am amazed at times how well he leads/handles MR. All the subtle changes......In my opinion, the rhythm artistry on that one is far trickier than the leads.
The nadir of that tour seems to have been Helsinki, August 1, 2007, where Mick actually had to grab a drunken Keith to keep him from falling off the front of the stage--which would have been a 20-foot drop. Does anyone have video of that moment?
There doesn't seem to be a good, up-close YouTube video of that show, but this snippet of I Wanna Hold You should provide some idea....
From that same show, you can hear him flub the opening notes of Paint It, Black....
....which is a huge drunken difference from how he played the intro in 1990.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 07:24 by stonehearted.
He was dehydrated and sick, not drunk. That's why he got so mad at the reviewer in Stockholm, who more or less based his Stockholm review on the Helsinki performance.
EDIT: He played the PIB like this on all BB-shows. What's wrong with I Wanna Hold You, I didn't catch that?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 09:55 by DandelionPowderman.
When Markus Larsson interviewed Keith he mentions the bad review, which he says was about a concert in Sweden (at 0:14).
I know, but he described things that happened in Helsinki (Keith fell over, butching the BS-riff etc.) in his Stockholm review. None of those things happened in Stockholm.
I know this for a fact (Keith being sick in Helsinki) via a mutual friend who was there with him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 10:27 by DandelionPowderman.
Watch that video with Jeff Beck again. It will do wonders for you.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
It's sad that supposed Stones fans can't enjoy this, and even find it to be absolutely without feel, soul or groove...
It's outrageous, imo, but each to his own...
Thank you Justin, for passing this one on!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 12:25 by DandelionPowderman.
Any Jeff video actually.
But Keith was really good in that video, doing what HE is good at, imo.
Absolutely, Keith still has the groove that makes him Keith. I just think we cannot compare Keith and Jeff. Jeff plays a lot more, still is a fanatic player. Keith has a completely different attitude. And a bit of an odd mix to let them play together, at least that particular song. A bit hilarious, but I can see the joke - they both did see that, I think.
I love them both - as guitarists.
Yeah, no need to compare - it was answer to Glammy, who claimed that Keith had lost it all.
I know this is a Keith thread, but jeeze... MICK!
70 years old.
Unbelievable.
Good stuff!
As for iffy soloing, check out Sympathy from Rock & Roll Circus, there's some weedy ass wonkyness in there.
He's an in the moment player, one that is battle scarred from 50 years in the music biz, but he's mostly playing good on this tour.
So when everyone else is saying that Keith plays way better on this tour, you are right and they are wrong?
If you can't tell from the performances that Keith is back on track focused and passionate, or care to elaborate - you can't expect to be taken seriously:
There is no wrong or right. I hear what I hear. I absolutely don't care if other people like it or not. My personal opinion and taste. If others feel differently -good for them. More power to them. But it doesn't affect my opinion in any way.
Good riddance
Nice trolling Glammy. The 1st Chicago show I attended had Keith and Ronnie both in fine form.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: May 30, 2013 22:33
Quote
OlRiddim
There was a scary YouTube of a live "Happy" from the post-surgery period where Keith seemed to freeze up in the opening seconds ... head down; arms hanging loose ... then you could almost see him square up his shoulders and get back into the groove with the rest of the band. (I believe it was the moustachaioed Keith.)
Anyone remember seeing this? It appears to have been pulled from YouTube.
More importantly, was there ever an explanation for what happened? It was more than just a "forgot the riff" moment - you'd have thought he was having a mini-seizure.
But he rallied, bless 'im.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
OlRiddim
()
Date: May 30, 2013 22:42
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
OlRiddim
There was a scary YouTube of a live "Happy" from the post-surgery period where Keith seemed to freeze up in the opening seconds ... head down; arms hanging loose ... then you could almost see him square up his shoulders and get back into the groove with the rest of the band. (I believe it was the moustachaioed Keith.)
Anyone remember seeing this? It appears to have been pulled from YouTube.
More importantly, was there ever an explanation for what happened? It was more than just a "forgot the riff" moment - you'd have thought he was having a mini-seizure.
But he rallied, bless 'im.
A mess, for sure - but DandelionPowderman is right about Nijmegen ... that's the vid I was thinkjng of. Scary and sad. And it seems to have disappeared.
But no matter: that was 2007 - we have a grinning Keith right now.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
slew
()
Date: May 31, 2013 06:05
I thought Keith was great on B2B tour and Licks. 1989 he was awesome. Bang tour was bad but he had a major head injury and I think he was boozong a lot!
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Thrylan
()
Date: May 31, 2013 06:50
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Big Al
Perhaps this is a little off-topic, but does anyone here have an opinion as to when exactly Keith's playing began to deteriorate? In my opinion, it's been incredibly gradual.It's quite clear that Keith wasn't himself during the latter-stages of the A Bigger Bang Tour, but his early performances were not remarkably different to how he was during the Licks tour. He's slowed down and he is a little more sloppy in his execution, but this is entirely natural, I think. Even Clapton realises he cannot play like he did 10-15 years ago.
A very clear detoriation begun already in 1994. It wasn't the same Keith that started the VL tour that started the Winos tour in 1992. That goes for soloing in particular.
The SW/UJ tours showed Keith at his absolute peak, bringing in lots of new licks and motifs.
He is back to the Licks-level now, imo. An important difference is that he is way more diciplined now, though.
Very good assessment. There is more time between tours than ever now, so the drop-off is more evident. I am amazed at times how well he leads/handles MR. All the subtle changes......In my opinion, the rhythm artistry on that one is far trickier than the leads.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: May 31, 2013 07:21
Quote
OlRiddimQuote
KRiffhardQuote
OlRiddim
There was a scary YouTube of a live "Happy" from the post-surgery period where Keith seemed to freeze up in the opening seconds ... head down; arms hanging loose ... then you could almost see him square up his shoulders and get back into the groove with the rest of the band. (I believe it was the moustachaioed Keith.)
Anyone remember seeing this? It appears to have been pulled from YouTube.
More importantly, was there ever an explanation for what happened? It was more than just a "forgot the riff" moment - you'd have thought he was having a mini-seizure.
But he rallied, bless 'im.
A mess, for sure - but DandelionPowderman is right about Nijmegen ... that's the vid I was thinkjng of. Scary and sad. And it seems to have disappeared.
But no matter: that was 2007 - we have a grinning Keith right now.
The nadir of that tour seems to have been Helsinki, August 1, 2007, where Mick actually had to grab a drunken Keith to keep him from falling off the front of the stage--which would have been a 20-foot drop. Does anyone have video of that moment?
There doesn't seem to be a good, up-close YouTube video of that show, but this snippet of I Wanna Hold You should provide some idea....
From that same show, you can hear him flub the opening notes of Paint It, Black....
....which is a huge drunken difference from how he played the intro in 1990.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 07:24 by stonehearted.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: May 31, 2013 09:22
I'm not sure about his palying now or then, but the consensus seems to be his guitar playing is stronger. That's something anyway.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 09:36
Quote
stoneheartedQuote
OlRiddimQuote
KRiffhardQuote
OlRiddim
There was a scary YouTube of a live "Happy" from the post-surgery period where Keith seemed to freeze up in the opening seconds ... head down; arms hanging loose ... then you could almost see him square up his shoulders and get back into the groove with the rest of the band. (I believe it was the moustachaioed Keith.)
Anyone remember seeing this? It appears to have been pulled from YouTube.
More importantly, was there ever an explanation for what happened? It was more than just a "forgot the riff" moment - you'd have thought he was having a mini-seizure.
But he rallied, bless 'im.
A mess, for sure - but DandelionPowderman is right about Nijmegen ... that's the vid I was thinkjng of. Scary and sad. And it seems to have disappeared.
But no matter: that was 2007 - we have a grinning Keith right now.
The nadir of that tour seems to have been Helsinki, August 1, 2007, where Mick actually had to grab a drunken Keith to keep him from falling off the front of the stage--which would have been a 20-foot drop. Does anyone have video of that moment?
There doesn't seem to be a good, up-close YouTube video of that show, but this snippet of I Wanna Hold You should provide some idea....
From that same show, you can hear him flub the opening notes of Paint It, Black....
....which is a huge drunken difference from how he played the intro in 1990.
He was dehydrated and sick, not drunk. That's why he got so mad at the reviewer in Stockholm, who more or less based his Stockholm review on the Helsinki performance.
EDIT: He played the PIB like this on all BB-shows. What's wrong with I Wanna Hold You, I didn't catch that?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 09:55 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: May 31, 2013 10:04
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stoneheartedQuote
OlRiddimQuote
KRiffhardQuote
OlRiddim
There was a scary YouTube of a live "Happy" from the post-surgery period where Keith seemed to freeze up in the opening seconds ... head down; arms hanging loose ... then you could almost see him square up his shoulders and get back into the groove with the rest of the band. (I believe it was the moustachaioed Keith.)
Anyone remember seeing this? It appears to have been pulled from YouTube.
More importantly, was there ever an explanation for what happened? It was more than just a "forgot the riff" moment - you'd have thought he was having a mini-seizure.
But he rallied, bless 'im.
A mess, for sure - but DandelionPowderman is right about Nijmegen ... that's the vid I was thinkjng of. Scary and sad. And it seems to have disappeared.
But no matter: that was 2007 - we have a grinning Keith right now.
The nadir of that tour seems to have been Helsinki, August 1, 2007, where Mick actually had to grab a drunken Keith to keep him from falling off the front of the stage--which would have been a 20-foot drop. Does anyone have video of that moment?
There doesn't seem to be a good, up-close YouTube video of that show, but this snippet of I Wanna Hold You should provide some idea....
From that same show, you can hear him flub the opening notes of Paint It, Black....
....which is a huge drunken difference from how he played the intro in 1990.
He was dehydrated and sick, not drunk. That's why he got so mad at the reviewer in Stockholm, who more or less based his Stockholm review on the Helsinki performance.
EDIT: He played the PIB like this on all BB-shows. What's wrong with I Wanna Hold You, I didn't catch that?
When Markus Larsson interviewed Keith he mentions the bad review, which he says was about a concert in Sweden (at 0:14).
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 10:25
Quote
stoneheartedQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
stoneheartedQuote
OlRiddimQuote
KRiffhardQuote
OlRiddim
There was a scary YouTube of a live "Happy" from the post-surgery period where Keith seemed to freeze up in the opening seconds ... head down; arms hanging loose ... then you could almost see him square up his shoulders and get back into the groove with the rest of the band. (I believe it was the moustachaioed Keith.)
Anyone remember seeing this? It appears to have been pulled from YouTube.
More importantly, was there ever an explanation for what happened? It was more than just a "forgot the riff" moment - you'd have thought he was having a mini-seizure.
But he rallied, bless 'im.
A mess, for sure - but DandelionPowderman is right about Nijmegen ... that's the vid I was thinkjng of. Scary and sad. And it seems to have disappeared.
But no matter: that was 2007 - we have a grinning Keith right now.
The nadir of that tour seems to have been Helsinki, August 1, 2007, where Mick actually had to grab a drunken Keith to keep him from falling off the front of the stage--which would have been a 20-foot drop. Does anyone have video of that moment?
There doesn't seem to be a good, up-close YouTube video of that show, but this snippet of I Wanna Hold You should provide some idea....
From that same show, you can hear him flub the opening notes of Paint It, Black....
....which is a huge drunken difference from how he played the intro in 1990.
He was dehydrated and sick, not drunk. That's why he got so mad at the reviewer in Stockholm, who more or less based his Stockholm review on the Helsinki performance.
EDIT: He played the PIB like this on all BB-shows. What's wrong with I Wanna Hold You, I didn't catch that?
When Markus Larsson interviewed Keith he mentions the bad review, which he says was about a concert in Sweden (at 0:14).
I know, but he described things that happened in Helsinki (Keith fell over, butching the BS-riff etc.) in his Stockholm review. None of those things happened in Stockholm.
I know this for a fact (Keith being sick in Helsinki) via a mutual friend who was there with him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 10:27 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Limbostone
()
Date: May 31, 2013 10:41
Please all stop quoting the youtube clips over and over!
Regarding the Nijmegen issue, it was analysed by some as being Charlie's mistake.
Regarding the Nijmegen issue, it was analysed by some as being Charlie's mistake.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Glammy
()
Date: May 31, 2013 11:38
As a guitar player he is totally lost. At times I find him embarrassing. He can't play for shit anymore. Not even the easiest chords. There is also absolutely no feel, soul, or groove in his "playing". He's a mess and as I said in an other thread a shadow of his former self. More of like a caricature of the old Keef. A complete poser, on and off stage.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:00
Quote
Glammy
As a guitar player he is totally lost. At times I find him embarrassing. He can't play for shit anymore. Not even the easiest chords. There is also absolutely no feel, soul, or groove in his "playing". He's a mess and as I said in an other thread a shadow of his former self. More of like a caricature of the old Keef. A complete poser, on and off stage.
Watch that video with Jeff Beck again. It will do wonders for you.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now Posted by:
roby
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:05
Only sound, no video , but yes, Malcolm playing lead, Twickenham, September 20, 2003
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
roby
A excellent lead guitar player too (remember the one during "Rock me Baby", Twickenham 2003 ?)... Him again on lead guitar on "Little Lover", "Soul Stripper", "Show Business", "You Ain't Got a Hold on Me", "Can't Stand Still"
You're right, but I dream that Keith remains as solid as Malcolm...
Keith was never solid, always unpredictable in a way. Malcolm again might be "too solid", if you know what I mean.
Haven´t seen Malcolm play lead on Rock Me Baby?
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:22
Quote
Glammy
As a guitar player he is totally lost. At times I find him embarrassing. He can't play for shit anymore. Not even the easiest chords. There is also absolutely no feel, soul, or groove in his "playing". He's a mess and as I said in an other thread a shadow of his former self. More of like a caricature of the old Keef. A complete poser, on and off stage.
It's sad that supposed Stones fans can't enjoy this, and even find it to be absolutely without feel, soul or groove...
It's outrageous, imo, but each to his own...
Thank you Justin, for passing this one on!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-31 12:25 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
svt22
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:29
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Watch that video with Jeff Beck again. It will do wonders for you.
Any Jeff video actually.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:33
But Keith was really good in that video, doing what HE is good at, imo.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
svt22
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:49
Quote
DandelionPowderman
But Keith was really good in that video, doing what HE is good at, imo.
Absolutely, Keith still has the groove that makes him Keith. I just think we cannot compare Keith and Jeff. Jeff plays a lot more, still is a fanatic player. Keith has a completely different attitude. And a bit of an odd mix to let them play together, at least that particular song. A bit hilarious, but I can see the joke - they both did see that, I think.
I love them both - as guitarists.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 12:57
Quote
svt22Quote
DandelionPowderman
But Keith was really good in that video, doing what HE is good at, imo.
Absolutely, Keith still has the groove that makes him Keith. I just think we cannot compare Keith and Jeff. Jeff plays a lot more, still is a fanatic player. Keith has a completely different attitude. And a bit of an odd mix to let them play together, at least that particular song. A bit hilarious, but I can see the joke - they both did see that, I think.
I love them both - as guitarists.
Yeah, no need to compare - it was answer to Glammy, who claimed that Keith had lost it all.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:02
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I know this is a Keith thread, but jeeze... MICK!
70 years old.
Unbelievable.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
roby
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:03
Yes, Mick is really eternal...
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:07
The amount of energy and passion he puts into his performance is breathtaking!
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:07
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Glammy
As a guitar player he is totally lost. At times I find him embarrassing. He can't play for shit anymore. Not even the easiest chords. There is also absolutely no feel, soul, or groove in his "playing". He's a mess and as I said in an other thread a shadow of his former self. More of like a caricature of the old Keef. A complete poser, on and off stage.
It's sad that supposed Stones fans can't enjoy this, and even find it to be absolutely without feel, soul or groove...
It's outrageous, imo, but each to his own...
Thank you Justin, for passing this one on!
Good stuff!
As for iffy soloing, check out Sympathy from Rock & Roll Circus, there's some weedy ass wonkyness in there.
He's an in the moment player, one that is battle scarred from 50 years in the music biz, but he's mostly playing good on this tour.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Glammy
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:17
Yeah, Mick is da man. He's still got it. Total pro. Pure energy and commitment. To me, Keith (and those ticket prices) is the reason I have zero intention to attend the current Stones tour. After 3 shows I saw on the ABB tour with a Keef butchering most of the songs to a level so low I find no words for, I don't want to spend my hard earned money for such a crap anymore. Those videos do not convince me to think otherwise. I stand by every word I said. Keith can't play anymore. With Charlie a close second.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:30
Quote
Glammy
Yeah, Mick is da man. He's still got it. Total pro. Pure energy and commitment. To me, Keith (and those ticket prices) is the reason I have zero intention to attend the current Stones tour. After 3 shows I saw on the ABB tour with a Keef butchering most of the songs to a level so low I find no words for, I don't want to spend my hard earned money for such a crap anymore. Those videos do not convince me to think otherwise. I stand by every word I said. Keith can't play anymore. With Charlie a close second.
So when everyone else is saying that Keith plays way better on this tour, you are right and they are wrong?
If you can't tell from the performances that Keith is back on track focused and passionate, or care to elaborate - you can't expect to be taken seriously:
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Glammy
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:35
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Glammy
Yeah, Mick is da man. He's still got it. Total pro. Pure energy and commitment. To me, Keith (and those ticket prices) is the reason I have zero intention to attend the current Stones tour. After 3 shows I saw on the ABB tour with a Keef butchering most of the songs to a level so low I find no words for, I don't want to spend my hard earned money for such a crap anymore. Those videos do not convince me to think otherwise. I stand by every word I said. Keith can't play anymore. With Charlie a close second.
So when everyone else is saying that Keith plays way better on this tour, you are right and they are wrong?
If you can't tell from the performances that Keith is back on track focused and passionate, or care to elaborate - you can't expect to be taken seriously:
There is no wrong or right. I hear what I hear. I absolutely don't care if other people like it or not. My personal opinion and taste. If others feel differently -good for them. More power to them. But it doesn't affect my opinion in any way.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 31, 2013 13:36
Sounds like you've made up your mind, to me.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: May 31, 2013 15:27
Further to all the previous and largely valid points...
He's finally read his school reports
"...Keith needs to stop larking about and pay more attention"
He's finally read his school reports
"...Keith needs to stop larking about and pay more attention"
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: May 31, 2013 15:45
Quote
Glammy
Yeah, Mick is da man. He's still got it. Total pro. Pure energy and commitment. To me, Keith (and those ticket prices) is the reason I have zero intention to attend the current Stones tour. After 3 shows I saw on the ABB tour with a Keef butchering most of the songs to a level so low I find no words for, I don't want to spend my hard earned money for such a crap anymore. Those videos do not convince me to think otherwise. I stand by every word I said. Keith can't play anymore. With Charlie a close second.
Good riddance
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
filstan
()
Date: May 31, 2013 15:53
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
Glammy
Yeah, Mick is da man. He's still got it. Total pro. Pure energy and commitment. To me, Keith (and those ticket prices) is the reason I have zero intention to attend the current Stones tour. After 3 shows I saw on the ABB tour with a Keef butchering most of the songs to a level so low I find no words for, I don't want to spend my hard earned money for such a crap anymore. Those videos do not convince me to think otherwise. I stand by every word I said. Keith can't play anymore. With Charlie a close second.
Good riddance
Nice trolling Glammy. The 1st Chicago show I attended had Keith and Ronnie both in fine form.
Re: Curious about Keith's palying now
Posted by:
Bob C.
()
Date: May 31, 2013 15:58
I know I am coming to this thread late but I was at the Toronto show and want to add my thoughts. I have seen every tour (sans licks) since 75. Toronto was outstanding from every standpoint. I think that the rolling Stones shows had become too Vegas starting with VDL and getting more Vegas every tour. Don't get me wrong, I loved the shows, and most people were blown away - but the music was just a part of the show and especially the guitars were just part of the wall of sound.
Now the guitars are right out front and much cleaner. Keith's phrasing is outstanding, clearly compensating for any loss of speed or accuracy. I think fewer horns, and no rhythm via Blondie has helped as well.
For years is has been about the show; now it is about the music. Keith is doing less dancing and more guitar playing. He is a much better guitar player than dancer.
Now the guitars are right out front and much cleaner. Keith's phrasing is outstanding, clearly compensating for any loss of speed or accuracy. I think fewer horns, and no rhythm via Blondie has helped as well.
For years is has been about the show; now it is about the music. Keith is doing less dancing and more guitar playing. He is a much better guitar player than dancer.
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