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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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chriseganstar
Maybe coincidence, but unless I'm mistaken MT hasn't featured on anything other than Rambler and Satisfaction since he screwed up the beginning of Slipping Away in Abu Dhabi.

Streets Of Love in Rome...

Both traditional, strong Taylor numbers..

- Doxa

The irony is that MR and S aren't Taylor numbers either

Well, "Rambler" practically is, if we forget the original that has been a curiosity in this number's heroic history. Even during modern times, when they started to listen the original studio versions and reconstruct them, they left "Rambler" out to live according to its 'road version' that was blueprinted in GET YER YA-YA'S OUT!

- Doxa

Both MR and S are on the Ya Yas Deluxe, but we can't forget the original studio recordings? If we do, we'll have to say that MR is a classic Woody number, since he's played brilliantly on it for 39 years

The Ya Yas version is more akin to the original than today's version, imo.

As usual, not an opportunity wasted to belittle Taylor's contribution in Stones history if there is any kind of chance, huh?

Sorry, but I can't see any sense to compare the story of "Satisfaction" into that of "Rambler" - what does 2010 released Deluxe version of YA-YA'S has to do here, anyway?

There is not many Stones tunes that had become classics mostly due to their live versions, but if there ever is one, that's "Midnight Rambler". That is nothing to take away from the brilliant studio original, but the reputation was build on during those 1969-73 years, when Richards and Taylor created that beautiful dualism by their guitars, each having its distinct role (even though Richards having a more constitutive one, since the song is driven by those magnificient chords). When your hero Wood stepped onboard in 1975, he pretty much took Taylor's role in the arrangement, wheras Keith continued doing the same he had done earlier. Of course, now all of us can listen to BRUSSELL's "Rambler" - or, if you like, L.A. FRIDAY's - as some kind of full realization of its potentia, but however, for years, it was the YA-YA'S version that was the definitive one for most of Stones fans, who hadn't have a chance to see the band live - or get bootlegs - during those years. There one can hear - like already in Hyde Park - the basic idea how the guitars were arranged (and how, for example, the tune is introduced by Mick's harmonica teaser). Well, compared to so many versions of the song ever since, yeah, by not taking so much freedoms and applications, and being more faithful to studio version formally, it is probably nowadays difficult to see - or remember - how radically different and ground-breaking the version in YA-YA'S! initially sounded like. The song was re-born there, and its life on road goes on along the model sketched there, with no need to check whatever happened in the studio original - not even post-1989 days when the latter became a norm.

"Satisfaction" is a totally different story altogether. The original studio version is their most iconic piece of music ever. Whatever they do live with it, is doomed to pale in comparison to it. Taylor years versions are great ones (and probably their most adventurous ones ever), but curiosities at most.

- Doxa

How am I belittling his contributions? Merely pointing to the fact that he didn't play on the original, hence it isn't "his" song, no matter how many great versions he did later on.

BTW, everything you say about MR goes for the 69 version of Satisfaction as well (new arrangement, guitar roles, Taylor's guitar etc.) - both documented on Ya Yas.

<the reputation was built on during those 1969-73 years, when Richards and Taylor created that beautiful dualism by their guitars>

This is fine as an opinion (and I agree), but let's not forget where this track came from - namely the album that knocked Abbey Road off its throne - from the top of the charts. So there are a few million people who also enjoy the album version

But it was the arrangement of MR you talked about initially. To get back to that, I don't think the Ya Yas-version is that drastically of a change from the studio version. It's sped up a bit, the guitars are heavier in sound and there is some guitar soloing and weaving (actually) in the middle. The big change came in 73, when they played it at breakneck speed, as well as introducing new elements into the song and prolonged it.

Do you REALLY belive that Ronnie Wood is my hero?

The Rolling Stones songs most loved by Australia's top musicians writes

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Currently on their seventh Australian tour, the Stones have asked fans to choose a favourite song for each gig. But what would Australia's finest musicians want to hear?

Dave Graney wants Time Waits For No One (It's Only Rock 'n Roll, 1974)

"I'd be happy to hear whatever they thought appropriate to present to us. That'd be interesting - them playing either what they wanted or what they thought we wanted. Time Waits For No One from It's Only Rock 'n Roll would be nice with a guest spot from Mick Taylor. Or Hot Stuff from Black and Blue."

The full listing of Australian artists and their requested Stones track from the article being:

Isabella Manfredi – The Preatures : Loving Cup, (Exile on Main Street, 1972)

Paul Kelly and Henry Wagons : Waiting on a Friend (Tattoo You, 1981)

Dave Faulkner – The Hoodoo Gurus : 19th Nervous Breakdown (Single, 1966)

Dan Sultan : Gimme Shelter, (Let It Bleed, 1969)

Ella Hooper – Killing Heidi, The Verses : Angie, (Goat's Head Soup, 1973)

Gossling : Paint it Black (Aftermath, 1966)

Mick Turner – Dirty Three : Moonlight Mile (Sticky Fingers, 1971)

Steve Kilbey – The Church : Citadel (Their Satanic Majesties Request, 1967)

Dave Graney : Time Waits For No One (It's Only Rock 'n Roll, 1974)

Emma Swift : Faraway Eyes, (Some Girls, 1978)

Kim Salmon, The Scientists and David Bridie : Sympathy for the Devil, (Beggars Banquet, 1968)

Ali McCann – Beaches : Happy, (Exile on Main Street, 1972)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-11 13:10 by muffie.

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muffie
The Rolling Stones songs most loved by Australia's top musicians writes

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Currently on their seventh Australian tour, the Stones have asked fans to choose a favourite song for each gig. But what would Australia's finest musicians want to hear?

Dave Graney wants Time Waits For No One (It's Only Rock 'n Roll, 1974)

"I'd be happy to hear whatever they thought appropriate to present to us. That'd be interesting - them playing either what they wanted or what they thought we wanted. Time Waits For No One from It's Only Rock 'n Roll would be nice with a guest spot from Mick Taylor. Or Hot Stuff from Black and Blue."

That's a great span between those two songs!

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Chacal

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chriseganstar
Maybe coincidence, but unless I'm mistaken MT hasn't featured on anything other than Rambler and Satisfaction since he screwed up the beginning of Slipping Away in Abu Dhabi.

Are you trying to win the prize for least informed comment of the year ?
That was a pretty good shot.
You managed to fit multiple errors into one sentence.

And you did, of course, read my review of the Abu Dhabi gig.

Satisfied since 1976

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chriseganstar
Maybe coincidence, but unless I'm mistaken MT hasn't featured on anything other than Rambler and Satisfaction since he screwed up the beginning of Slipping Away in Abu Dhabi.

'fraid you are mistaken, since Abu Dhabi he played Slipping away on all the remaining Asian shows, plus Silver Train on the second Tokyo show and on Streets of Love in Rome in the summer..........

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Doxa
"Satisfaction" is a totally different story altogether. The original studio version is their most iconic piece of music ever. Whatever they do live with it, is doomed to pale in comparison to it. Taylor years versions are great ones (and probably their most adventurous ones ever), but curiosities at most.

The tambourine plays a major role on the studio version!

Satisfaction might be the song that had the most different live versions of their catalogue,
ranging from punk to soul and from garage rock to stadium rocker:

























Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

I'm very saticfied about the fact that Mr. Tambourine Man played guitar on this Version, witch by the way, has many similarities with Rambler from '69 :


Also, this version from '72 takes the song to an all time high

<<the fact that Mr. Tambourine Man played guitar on this Version>>

You mean Bob Dylan actually jammed onstage with the Stones during Satisfaction? I know he once boasted to Jagger that he could have written it, but I didn't know they actually had him onstage to play on it.

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DandelionPowderman
How am I belittling his contributions? Merely pointing to the fact that he didn't play on the original, hence it isn't "his" song, no matter how many great versions he did later on.

Well, if 'not being a Taylor song' simply means 'Taylor didn't play in the original studio version', then that's fine. However, I find that unjust to put, say, "Streets of Love" to the same category as "Midnight Rambler", because the history is not really that simple. The whole BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED era material is basically an outcome of a experimental studio band, using the benefits and technique the studios offer. When this stuff was brought to stage by a five-piece (basically) rock and roll band all kinds of adjustments were done, and the material got almost a new clothing. Mick Taylor was a vital contributor there, and many cases he added there guitar contributions that not originally were there at all, or if were, he gave them unique interpretations (GET YER YA-YA'S OUT! altogether is a great showcase of that). For years to come, these Taylor arrangements and ideas turned out be essential features for many songs, and, for example, when Ronnie Wood joined in, he heritaged them. The guitar solo in "You Can't Always Get What You Want" is a great example of that (well, at least in a theory; that was something Woodie was supposed to do in HAMPTON...). So it was not just Taylor's recorded material Ronnie needed to learn, but also Taylor's stamp on BEGGARS BANQUET/LET IT BLEED material, the 'war horses' section of a Rolling Stones show ("Gimme Shelter", "Street Fighting Man", etc). It was not until the modern age (1989-), when the Stones adapted the policy of 'let's copycat the original studio versions' that many Taylorian features were kicked out (think of, say, "Sympathy For The Devil"). However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...

So my point is that even though Taylor was not in original records, his contribution when bringing the strong BEGGARS BANQUET/LET IT BLEED material first time on stage was a huge one (this is equal to say that he was one strong contributor in creating the sound of 'greatest rock and roll band in the world' that emerged in 1969). He surely left his mark there. So for me a pure technical observation that 'he wasn't there in studio version' is a way too simplifying way to see the history of the Stones and the story of these particular songs. That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-12 10:53 by Doxa.

I don't disagree, Doxa, but it is still only your opinion that MR was re-arranged that much because of Taylor in 1969. IMO, that arrangement isn't really that different, as I said before.

It's only natural that songs changed in a live setting, especially round that time when they finally had PAs and could actually hear what they did on stage.

What you're not mentioning is that Ronnie also provided his own stamp on many of the classic songs from that era (Happy, Tumbling Dice, If You Can't Rock Me, Hot Stuff, You Gotta Move, YCAGWYW, Gimmie Shelter etc.).

In fairness, it would be silly not to re-create some of the classic guitar lines by Taylor in this era. Phrases in All Down The Line, for instance, belong to the song, imo. It would sound odd without them

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DandelionPowderman
I don't disagree, Doxa, but it is still only your opinion that MR was re-arranged that much because of Taylor in 1969. IMO, that arrangement isn't really that different, as I said before.

It's only natural that songs changed in a live setting, especially round that time when they finally had PAs and could actually hear what they did on stage.

What you're not mentioning is that Ronnie also provided his own stamp on many of the classic songs from that era (Happy, Tumbling Dice, If You Can't Rock Me, Hot Stuff, You Gotta Move, YCAGWYW, Gimmie Shelter etc.).

In fairness, it would be silly not to re-create some of the classic guitar lines by Taylor in this era. Phrases in All Down The Line, for instance, belong to the song, imo. It would sound odd without them

Of course MR was rearranged due to Taylor's influence.
For christ sake, Keith finally had a workable guitar player by his side.
Listen to Fort Collins then New York 1969 and you will hear how the interplay between KR and MT evolved.
This interplay - which hit a pinnacle at the East Coast shows 1969 - was the platform that every Rambler was based on in the future.
Thankyou Mick Taylor...you helped changed a dreary song on an album to a rock classic!

Oh..but the PAs did all this...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-12 15:22 by Eleanor Rigby.

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Eleanor Rigby

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DandelionPowderman
I don't disagree, Doxa, but it is still only your opinion that MR was re-arranged that much because of Taylor in 1969. IMO, that arrangement isn't really that different, as I said before.

It's only natural that songs changed in a live setting, especially round that time when they finally had PAs and could actually hear what they did on stage.

What you're not mentioning is that Ronnie also provided his own stamp on many of the classic songs from that era (Happy, Tumbling Dice, If You Can't Rock Me, Hot Stuff, You Gotta Move, YCAGWYW, Gimmie Shelter etc.).

In fairness, it would be silly not to re-create some of the classic guitar lines by Taylor in this era. Phrases in All Down The Line, for instance, belong to the song, imo. It would sound odd without them

Of course MR was rearranged due to Taylor's influence.
For christ sake, Keith finally had a workable guitar player by his side.
Listen to Fort Collins then New York 1969 and you will hear how the interplay between KR and MT evolved.
This interplay - which hit a pinnacle at the West Coast shows 1969 - was the platform that every Rambler was based on in the future.
Thankyou Mick Taylor...you helped changed a dreary song on an album to a rock classic!

Oh..but the PAs did all this...

Are you talking about arranging or interplay and/or improvisation?

I have never heard or read anything about Keith saying "we increased the tempo and added new parts to the song, because Mick Taylor was a brilliant guitarist".

However, this might be the most to the point-statement from Keith about the song's evolvement:

I believe things like Midnight Rambler come through better live, because we've extended it more. Sometimes when you record something you go off half-cocked because maybe you haven't ever played it live. You've just written it and you record it. From then on you take it and keep on playing it and it gets different. I remember I was into 12-string bottlenecks then.
- Keith Richards, 1971

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chriseganstar

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Chacal

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chriseganstar
Maybe coincidence, but unless I'm mistaken MT hasn't featured on anything other than Rambler and Satisfaction since he screwed up the beginning of Slipping Away in Abu Dhabi.

Are you trying to win the prize for least informed comment of the year ?
That was a pretty good shot.
You managed to fit multiple errors into one sentence.

And you did, of course, read my review of the Abu Dhabi gig.

I'm not particularly interested in reading your review after seeing the number of mistakes you made in one sentence.
Watching a YouTube video might help you get re-acquainted with what happened in Abu Dhabi. My memory is still intact, that's why I noticed the error above. Did you follow the Far East tour at all ? The setlists are still available. Maybe you should have a look at them.

If it's just2 till the last tour date..
Midnight rambler and gimme shelter

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

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smokeydusky

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

What are the similarities?

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smokeydusky

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

I agree, although it lacks that crucial slide-part Taylor did in the middle of the song in '73 and the rest of the band making a heavy blues accompaniment. Call it Brussels-lite these days.

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LuxuryStones

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smokeydusky

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

I agree, although it lacks that crucial slide-part Taylor did in the middle of the song in '73 and the rest of the band making a heavy blues accompaniment. Call it Brussels-lite these days.

It lacks way more than that, imo.

The tempo, the drive, the trading of licks in the middle section + the general aggressiveness of Brussels.

They play a lovely version nowadays, but save the extended solos it is more bluesy and similar to the 2003 version, methinks. However, in a way the newer version is unique - with new elements.





Brussels:





2014 (TAYLOR'S BEST RAMBLER?):







Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-13 15:45 by DandelionPowderman.

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Doxa
There is not many Stones tunes that had become classics mostly due to their live versions, but if there ever is one, that's "Midnight Rambler".

"Satisfaction" is a totally different story altogether. The original studio version is their most iconic piece of music ever. Whatever they do live with it, is doomed to pale in comparison to it. Taylor years versions are great ones (and probably their most adventurous ones ever), but curiosities at most.

- Doxa

MR and SFTD are two that come to mind regarding songs gaining a classic status mostly due to their live versions (and for me anyway GYYYO!). I say SFTD because, although it still gets airplay on FM radio, live it was stunning as far as GYYYO! goes and pretty good on LYL. The GYYYO! version will always be tops for me and that's how I knew the song first.

I think their way of playing Satisfaction on the 1969 tour was the best it will ever sound live (and I'm guessing is probably what was meant by the GYYYO! deluxe release). They completely changed it from the studio version (bizarrely and brilliantly they did also with Live With Me and it's never been the same after, it's been quite a snore actually). Since then it's been mostly a hurried mess without any of the dynamism that makes the studio version so swampy.

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GasLightStreet

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Doxa
There is not many Stones tunes that had become classics mostly due to their live versions, but if there ever is one, that's "Midnight Rambler".

"Satisfaction" is a totally different story altogether. The original studio version is their most iconic piece of music ever. Whatever they do live with it, is doomed to pale in comparison to it. Taylor years versions are great ones (and probably their most adventurous ones ever), but curiosities at most.

- Doxa

MR and SFTD are two that come to mind regarding songs gaining a classic status mostly due to their live versions (and for me anyway GYYYO!). I say SFTD because, although it still gets airplay on FM radio, live it was stunning as far as GYYYO! goes and pretty good on LYL. The GYYYO! version will always be tops for me and that's how I knew the song first.

I think their way of playing Satisfaction on the 1969 tour was the best it will ever sound live (and I'm guessing is probably what was meant by the GYYYO! deluxe release). They completely changed it from the studio version (bizarrely and brilliantly they did also with Live With Me and it's never been the same after, it's been quite a snore actually). Since then it's been mostly a hurried mess without any of the dynamism that makes the studio version so swampy.

I agree with most of this (except I'm having trouble with Satisfaction without the riff), but I don't think SFTD became a classic because of the Ya Yas-version.

Ya Yas and BB both sold a million copies in the US. Then we have the single, which on its own sold how many copies, and received how much airplay?...

It isn't always the quality, nor the reception of the hard core fans, which determines what becomes a classic

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DandelionPowderman

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LuxuryStones

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smokeydusky

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

I agree, although it lacks that crucial slide-part Taylor did in the middle of the song in '73 and the rest of the band making a heavy blues accompaniment. Call it Brussels-lite these days.

It lacks way more than that, imo.

The tempo, the drive, the trading of licks in the middle section + the general aggressiveness of Brussels.

Sure, a couple of things are gone. Considering their age and former lifestyle we cannot blame them I think

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LuxuryStones

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DandelionPowderman

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LuxuryStones

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smokeydusky

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

I agree, although it lacks that crucial slide-part Taylor did in the middle of the song in '73 and the rest of the band making a heavy blues accompaniment. Call it Brussels-lite these days.

It lacks way more than that, imo.

The tempo, the drive, the trading of licks in the middle section + the general aggressiveness of Brussels.

Sure, a couple of things are gone. Considering their age and former lifestyle we cannot blame them I think

Agreed

SFTD became a classic due to YAYAs.

To be able to perform a live version of one of the greatest studio songs of all time and turn it into a legendary "new" song on stage, just adds to Taylor's brilliance.
Not many classics can claim to be brilliant both on album and live on stage and be fairly different arrangements.

I would put SFTD, Gimmie Shelter, Rambler and Street Fighting Man as songs taylor took to another level live..as well as others.

Today's band, taylor would be brilliant (and fair to fans and taylor) at least playing a part in Gimme shelter & SFM.

SFTD became a classic because of brilliant songwriting, its fantastic lyrics as well as the danger and mystique connected with it - it had nothing to do with Mick Taylor.

However, he played on a brilliant live version - a version that many, including myself, find superior to the studio version. That's another story, although that version might have contributed to cement the song's status as a classic.

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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Doxa
There is not many Stones tunes that had become classics mostly due to their live versions, but if there ever is one, that's "Midnight Rambler".

"Satisfaction" is a totally different story altogether. The original studio version is their most iconic piece of music ever. Whatever they do live with it, is doomed to pale in comparison to it. Taylor years versions are great ones (and probably their most adventurous ones ever), but curiosities at most.

- Doxa

MR and SFTD are two that come to mind regarding songs gaining a classic status mostly due to their live versions (and for me anyway GYYYO!). I say SFTD because, although it still gets airplay on FM radio, live it was stunning as far as GYYYO! goes and pretty good on LYL. The GYYYO! version will always be tops for me and that's how I knew the song first.

I think their way of playing Satisfaction on the 1969 tour was the best it will ever sound live (and I'm guessing is probably what was meant by the GYYYO! deluxe release). They completely changed it from the studio version (bizarrely and brilliantly they did also with Live With Me and it's never been the same after, it's been quite a snore actually). Since then it's been mostly a hurried mess without any of the dynamism that makes the studio version so swampy.

I agree with most of this (except I'm having trouble with Satisfaction without the riff), but I don't think SFTD became a classic because of the Ya Yas-version.

Ya Yas and BB both sold a million copies in the US. Then we have the single, which on its own sold how many copies, and received how much airplay?...

It isn't always the quality, nor the reception of the hard core fans, which determines what becomes a classic

Well, I understand your point. However, when I think of SFTD I think of the GYYYO! version. I get that that does not make it a classic regarding what you're saying... it's just that that performance of it has never and will never be topped. The LYL version is wompy, it humps along, and Woody throws some good lead lines in, and all the descending and ascending lines. Keith's solo is good.

I think it's the Seventh Of July boot, one of them throws in a lick that is exactly on that LYL version. When I first heard it I about fell over it cracked me up so much.

But the GYYYO! version is the Mako shark of performances.

I liked the 1989 version... at the concert. On record it seems to be a bit... what, it's almost mall muzak.

As far as Satisfaction from that 1969 tour, the riff is there - it's just an octave up!

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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Doxa
There is not many Stones tunes that had become classics mostly due to their live versions, but if there ever is one, that's "Midnight Rambler".

"Satisfaction" is a totally different story altogether. The original studio version is their most iconic piece of music ever. Whatever they do live with it, is doomed to pale in comparison to it. Taylor years versions are great ones (and probably their most adventurous ones ever), but curiosities at most.

- Doxa

MR and SFTD are two that come to mind regarding songs gaining a classic status mostly due to their live versions (and for me anyway GYYYO!). I say SFTD because, although it still gets airplay on FM radio, live it was stunning as far as GYYYO! goes and pretty good on LYL. The GYYYO! version will always be tops for me and that's how I knew the song first.

I think their way of playing Satisfaction on the 1969 tour was the best it will ever sound live (and I'm guessing is probably what was meant by the GYYYO! deluxe release). They completely changed it from the studio version (bizarrely and brilliantly they did also with Live With Me and it's never been the same after, it's been quite a snore actually). Since then it's been mostly a hurried mess without any of the dynamism that makes the studio version so swampy.

I agree with most of this (except I'm having trouble with Satisfaction without the riff), but I don't think SFTD became a classic because of the Ya Yas-version.

Ya Yas and BB both sold a million copies in the US. Then we have the single, which on its own sold how many copies, and received how much airplay?...

It isn't always the quality, nor the reception of the hard core fans, which determines what becomes a classic

Well, I understand your point. However, when I think of SFTD I think of the GYYYO! version. I get that that does not make it a classic regarding what you're saying... it's just that that performance of it has never and will never be topped. The LYL version is wompy, it humps along, and Woody throws some good lead lines in, and all the descending and ascending lines. Keith's solo is good.

I think it's the Seventh Of July boot, one of them throws in a lick that is exactly on that LYL version. When I first heard it I about fell over it cracked me up so much.

But the GYYYO! version is the Mako shark of performances.

I liked the 1989 version... at the concert. On record it seems to be a bit... what, it's almost mall muzak.

As far as Satisfaction from that 1969 tour, the riff is there - it's just an octave up!

Yeah, I get what you're saying

Yeah, the riff is there (for a little while) on Satisfaction, that's true. But it sounds so corny played that way. After a while Keith tries it with two strings - with complete disharmony...

The 1969 version of Satisfaction was almost totally lifted from Otis (both Booker T & The MGs and Otis's touring band played the riff wrongly, btw, he he).

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Doxa
However, the last of the mohicaans seems to be "Midnight Rambler", which still is faithful to initial - and original - Taylorian yaers treatment. So, it was a rather natural choice that they gave that one to Taylor to add his magic... The rest of classical 1968/69 material was alraedy chuckleavellized with no need or place for innovative guitar work...
...That's why I above said that "Rambler" is 'practically' a Taylor song to emphasize the radical difference to a stuff like "Streets of Love".
- Doxa

The performance at O2 seems to have been based on the version on the Brussels '73 official release (wherever that version came from).
MT playing on MR for the 50th anniversary and 14 on Fire shows probably has many reasons, but that Brussels release seems likely to have been a key one at the outset.

I agree, although it lacks that crucial slide-part Taylor did in the middle of the song in '73 and the rest of the band making a heavy blues accompaniment. Call it Brussels-lite these days.

It lacks way more than that, imo.

The tempo, the drive, the trading of licks in the middle section + the general aggressiveness of Brussels.

Sure, a couple of things are gone. Considering their age and former lifestyle we cannot blame them I think

Agreed

Yep. But my initial point was that of "Rambler" never been 'brought back home', that is, playing according to the original studio version, unlike with almost any other Stones number from those days. The 'road version' is still alive and kicking, and there is a straight blood line going through all these years of "Ramblers". When Wood step in, he continued from where Taylor had left them, and gave to the 'extended' road version his own stamp. When they 13 years later - 1989 - picked up the song back to their setlist, the reference was the 'road version', not the studio one. So when Taylor was back onboard, the song still 'living and breathing', not a copypaste job of the original. That is to say, it was ready, and having enough room, for Taylorian spontaneity and improvisation.

Yeah, it could be that they had BRUSSELS version fresh in their mind - since it was officially released at the time - so who knows if that was the reason why they decided that that's a suitable song for Taylor to show his skills. Namely he did a helluva job in BRUSSELS (which many, including me, consider a definitive version of the song, and probably the best recorded piece of live Stones or any rock music ever). If we take into consideration what Keith says of the song in CROSSFIRE HURRICANE, I think it is a big honour for Taylor that they let him to play in it (their most unique song ever, 'blues opera'). Or that they thought that what Taylor once did for the song, was essential for it to become such a monster live song that it is known for.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-13 17:24 by Doxa.

And since it is Taylor, and open-form road version, in question, it is natural that he didn't copycat the things he had done, say, in 1973. No, he gave us something we haven't heard ever before. That's a true spirit of "Midnight Rambler"! The song still continues developing/changing, sounding different every night, and surely not the least to do with Mick Taylor! I think that song, and how they treat it, is about the only link we these days musically have to the 'living and breathing' band of the 60's and 70's, which played about every number with that spirit.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-13 17:38 by Doxa.

I agree, Doxa, but keep in mind that MR is looser than the other songs, and leaves a lot of space for jamming.

That said, I think some of the looseness of the IORR live versions, compared to the original studio version, is still there today.

Then again, Woody wrote it

I think Bitch and Street Fighting Man today differ a lot to both the studio versions and live during the Taylor era as well.