It's true that this is getting into a mindf@ck for us fans : MT sitting backstage waiting for his MR spot while Jagger has "fun" onstage with the bimbo/skank du jour...

"Non mais allo Mick!?"

I have wondered if they've been easing Taylor in slowly intentionally, his solo shows pre 50counting tour were shaky, nerves maybe? He looks at home now, relaxed - cyhmk was the most NATURAL Taylor I've seen for a long time.
They should get him adtl.

A guest must remain a guest: hello, thank you, goodbye. Mick Taylor with four tracks as in LA was too "in the light"...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 11:15 by roby.

Is it possible that all the shouting, here and elsewhere, about MT as the saviour of the Stones and how they are no good without him hasn't gone down well in some quarters?

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Witness
Those who like to operate (not all me, as some will know, I have been in opposition to the term) with "a Las Vegas Era" concept for the whole period following 1989 until recently, need to present their view in more precise terms. During "the Steel Wheels Tour" (probably) as certainly during "the Urban Jungle Tour" the band was daring in the construction of their shows, where they must have relied on increased control and coordination. In that respect I have specially in mind their three song triology presentation from that period, constituted by "Paint It Black", "2000 Light Years from Home" and "Sympathy for the Devil". It is one the of omissions of the band that FLASHPOINT did not feature these songs in that way.

It sounds like I have thrown a challenge here!

But at the same time I feel like I have doing a lousy work here. I think one of my main motives here for years have been come to terms with "Vegas Era", and try to spell it out in "precise terms".

But from that mission I've taken a holiday now, and have put my energy to cheer up the The Taylor Reneissance (it's therapeutic...). So all I say now is that in regards to STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE tour, I agree that as itself it was a daring move for the band, since they were re-inviting their sound most effectively since 1969. And they probably haven't rehearsed any time as much as they did for that one.

But at the same the need for a control, and as a mark of "new professionalism", was a move to make the shows themselves more predictable and minimizing all the risks considering the playing itself (that is: the music is not any longer lead by Keith and Ronnie guitar axis). That was necessary for the whole show choreography. That's was the moment when the show aspect took over, and the function of music was to satisfy the needs of the show. In other words, the band lost its dangerous nature (which probably was the only option at the time - they probably had made themselves laughable if they have continued with the 1981/82 mood.)

But like said, the whole concept was a new one in 1989, and in a way continuing the ever going progress the band had always done in order to develop their act according to demands of the times. But that fresh concept then turned out to be THE concept from thereafter, and what we have seen since then, have been some minor changes within it. The mindset for the "Vegas" Stones was created then. The more growing hunger for nostalgia was easily to satisfy within it, since one of the leading ideas in performing the music was to do as faithful versions to the original studio as possible.

In a way having Taylor onboard easily belongs to that nostalgia dimension of the concept. And I think that was one of the reasons why he was brought in. A taster of original authenticity. Or that was I think Jagger having thought. But as it turned out to be - for the big surprise for the band and to us fans - Taylor brought in something else - namely unpredictable musicianship which was in odds with the old concept. And I think he naturally affects to the rest musicians in the band. We live interesting times now...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 11:45 by Doxa.

Enjoyed their early 60s fresh approach & enthusiasm to music the best. Always will.

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roby
A guest must remain a guest: hello, thank you, goodbye. Mick Taylor with four tracks as in LA was too "in the light"...

Sure is in a good way. A Guns N' Roses cover band guitarist I know has taken an interest in the band again upon hearing about Mick Taylor's guesting in LA. He's not interested in mediocre guitar playing that's been the staple for some time now.

I'm hopeful MT's being groomed to bring us the Crossfired Hurricane.

Hollywood Rose feat. Mick Taylor (Rolling Stones) - Jailbreak






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 18:16 by muffie.

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Doxa
Seemingly one possible prediction of the formula got a bit confirmation in Toronto: no guests = more Taylor. Taylor is a spare option to use if there is no one else.

Unfortunately this sticky thread became more relevant now... so, let us go back to work and keep noise!

MORE TAYLOR, PLEASE!!!!

- Doxa

I hope the same, but it won't not happen, unless maybe one or (at most) two more times. Now we're stuck with one great Knocking and a truncated, bad sung Sway (played too fast as well). But well, You Can't Always Get etc, especially when it concerns the Rolling Stones.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 02:28 by His Majesty.

Once again and as always, an interesting first response, Doxa, from you, exposed to a challenge.

My motive for, seemingly misplaced, bringing up that theme also in this plea thread, had to do with the plea itself. It was to demonstrate that also one, (in addition to the honourable threadstarter, of course, and Dandelion Powderman,) who is mainly positive to what the band has achieved during the decades the term is to cover, (acknowledging some limitations about band chemistry, about control and about the need to play warhorses), so much wants to have more Mick Taylor. To me it is not even primarily out of nostalgic reasons that I want it, and you are probably right about the band's (Mick Jagger's) original motive. Instead it was with a view to the new possiblities that might be. When it was rumoured and then reported that Mick Taylor should take part in the remaining concerts of 2012, my immediate answer on Nov. 26th was

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Witness
I wonder, I wonder: Might the Rolling Stones become a three guitar band for a possible ensuing album and then for concerts during 2013! What about two guitars doing some kind of underlying weaving and a solo guitar on top of that?

Wish thinking, of course, from one, that is not attending any of the four concerts of 2012.

As one often thinking critically of "the Las Vegas Era" concept, in the following time (Later added: that is more recently) I became aware that Mick Taylor might serve to handle and lessen the control and premeditated coordination aspects of the band's working conditions, too.

That is, I have been looking forward primarily and respectful for what the band has been in the last decades, not nostalgically backwards. Then at the same time, my wish goes longer than most, as I from early on more or less have wished for Mick Taylor to work with the band as if he were a rejoined member. The "as if", not "as", is the point there.

These last days I have been somewhat concerned that the band will feel a little insulted that the plea and other posts are voiced from many with too little respect for what the band has done both before and especially after Mick Taylor's period in the band. I fear that this might have a counterproductive effect. I don't mean that posters should express what they do not feel, however, seek to be as polite as possible, out of their own best interest.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 14:49 by Witness.

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Green Lady
Is it possible that all the shouting, here and elsewhere, about MT as the saviour of the Stones and how they are no good without him hasn't gone down well in some quarters?

I don't think any (reasonable) poster said they were "no good" without him, just that it was (really) special when he was on stage with them...and they seemed to agree based on their looks during CYHMK! But I guess that has similar implications for a freak control like Jagger...

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gotdablouse

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Green Lady
Is it possible that all the shouting, here and elsewhere, about MT as the saviour of the Stones and how they are no good without him hasn't gone down well in some quarters?

I don't think any (reasonable) poster said they were "no good" without him, just that it was (really) special when he was on stage with them...and they seemed to agree based on their looks during CYHMK! But I guess that has similar implications for a freak control like Jagger...

Well, let's start with whoever it was who said that we just had "Mick Taylor's rhythm section" on stage for most of the show last night. Comments like that must hurt, and make them want to show that they've been doing this for years without him and they can manage very well, thank you.

I am enjoying Mick Taylor's numbers on stage and would like to see a few more / different ones, and I think he deserves more than just being allowed to be an extra "guest" when they haven't got anybody else. It looks as if everyone is enjoying having him there (or doing a very good job of acting if they aren't) and the resulting music speaks for itself. But I'm not sure that the band themselves have worked out how far to take this, and asking for MT to play on every number RIGHT NOW is likely to make them think "Now hang on a minute - don't rush us..."

Mick, by the way, is known to hate pushy people, and some Taylor fans are getting very pushy.

Wait a minute. There's an assumption underlying the current discussion that the Rolling Stones are aware of what is written on this site?

Even if they (i.e., MIck) were aware of it, you don't think they realize that people who post on websites make up a tiny fraction of their fan base.

The thought that people need to be careful what they post because it might influence the band's decisions -- that Mick says "I'll show those @#$%& . . . " -- is beyond laughable. The self-importance behind these thoughts is funny.

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Rokyfan
Wait a minute. There's an assumption underlying the current discussion that the Rolling Stones are aware of what is written on this site?

Even if they (i.e., MIck) were aware of it, you don't think they realize that people who post on websites make up a tiny fraction of their fan base.

The thought that people need to be careful what they post because it might influence the band's decisions -- that Mick says "I'll show those @#$%& . . . " -- is beyond laughable. The self-importance behind these thoughts is funny.

Indeed, it's ridiculous. The 'fan base' aren't music lovers anyway, let alone Stones music lovers, they are for the biggest part party lovers. "Hey The Stones are in town, let's go and see them and party with them!" The Stones are some sort of curiosity, a must see act. It's seems to be cool to be able to say you've seen a Stones show. Back in the day we didn't use the word show, but concert. But that's about 100 years ago (well, 40 years, to be more accurate, the last year the Stones were really relevant.

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roby
A guest must remain a guest: hello, thank you, goodbye. Mick Taylor with four tracks as in LA was too "in the light"...

Sigh. He is not a guest - a guest is a one show sit-in - and he and we were promised an "Expanded Role"

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duffydawg

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roby
A guest must remain a guest: hello, thank you, goodbye. Mick Taylor with four tracks as in LA was too "in the light"...

Sigh. He is not a guest - a guest is a one show sit-in - and he and we were promised an "Expanded Role"

we were promised fan club hats a few years ago, too. you get used to getting screwed...all part of being a stones fan.

I love how posters still claim "MT might not be ready"... LOL. If you look at Sway it wasn't MT that screwed it up but clearly Jagger out of step.

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duffydawg
I love how posters still claim "MT might not be ready"... LOL. If you look at Sway it wasn't MT that screwed it up but clearly Jagger out of step.

Trust me when I type you Jagger screwed up Toronto too...

I can tell you I know many Stones fans and none of them post or even read hear. The addition of MT to the Tour DID SELL TICKETS! Now to have him back to a two song rotation is outrageous after his performance at Staples Center.

There is no question the band knew he hit a home run with CYHMK....and Jagger knows to give the fans what they want. THIS WAS CONSCIOUS DECISION TO PEEL MT BACK TO A VERY LIMITED ROLE. Musicians can read a crowd.

MT is a ROCK STAR.

To play SFM, HTW, GS, YCAGWYW, Angie without him, while he is sitting backstage is a ficking crime!

And stop the Guest versus Member of the band nonsense. Many bands have musicians sit in for whole tours.

Lastly, ever print reviewer - Toronto Paper now included - has given positive reviews to MT and his play and energy. I guess on any issue there is always 10% that are lunatic crazy in their opinions. For a Stones fan not to love Taylor is stupid crazy.

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duffydawg
For a Stones fan not to love Taylor is stupid crazy.

Many Stones fans are stupid crazy...Maybe Jagger is stupid crazy?

All in all 50+ is a lost opportunity to present their best possible music to Stones' fans.

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GravityBoy
Dear Mick Jagger,

I thought we had an agreement.

What are you doing? Don't welch on our agreement.

More Mick Taylor.. please.

Cheers,

Gravityboy

100%

And Mr. Jagger, and in addition to the actual concert experience involving Mick Taylor more into the concerts is the only way to get a really high quality and MUSICALLY interesting concert dvd/blu-ray box from this tour!
(the guests haven't been musically very interesting, it's all about the show)

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rollingon

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GravityBoy
Dear Mick Jagger,

I thought we had an agreement.

What are you doing? Don't welch on our agreement.

More Mick Taylor.. please.

Cheers,

Gravityboy

100%

And Mr. Jagger, and in addition to the actual concert experience involving Mick Taylor more into the concerts is the only way to get a really high quality and MUSICALLY interesting concert dvd/blu-ray box from this tour!
(the guests haven't been musically very interesting, it's all about the show)

Pray he doesn't alter the agreement further...

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Munichhilton

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rollingon

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GravityBoy
Dear Mick Jagger,

I thought we had an agreement.

What are you doing? Don't welch on our agreement.

More Mick Taylor.. please.

Cheers,

Gravityboy

100%

And Mr. Jagger, and in addition to the actual concert experience involving Mick Taylor more into the concerts is the only way to get a really high quality and MUSICALLY interesting concert dvd/blu-ray box from this tour!
(the guests haven't been musically very interesting, it's all about the show)

Pray he doesn't alter the agreement further...

Mr. Jagger...PLEASE TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!

Stones have created this baloney. Teasing us with MT than going back to the same old thing last night. Ronnie and Mick T, they don't deserve this controversy. Let them play and have fun, instead it's a battle of the bands mentality. Very queer, unprofessional and disrespectful to both guys, the audience and the music. I don't think this will change.. 50+ is a lost opportunity.

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DoomandGloom
Stones have created this baloney. Teasing us with MT than going back to the same old thing last night. Ronnie and Mick T, they don't deserve this controversy. Let them play and have fun, instead it's a battle of the bands mentality. Very queer, unprofessional and disrespectful to both guys, the audience and the music. I don't think this will change.. 50+ is a lost opportunity.

It really sort of is. Seems like both guys should get 50%...like the Roth/Hagar thing a while back...I read that worked well...

There must be some strange pissing contest going on with Jagger...

Why not do tracks like Love In Vain and Torn And Frayed.It would free Ronnie up to play lap slide and/or pedal steel rather than a second rhythm guitar part.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 19:45 by bonddm.

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Munichhilton

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DoomandGloom
Stones have created this baloney. Teasing us with MT than going back to the same old thing last night. Ronnie and Mick T, they don't deserve this controversy. Let them play and have fun, instead it's a battle of the bands mentality. Very queer, unprofessional and disrespectful to both guys, the audience and the music. I don't think this will change.. 50+ is a lost opportunity.

It really sort of is. Seems like both guys should get 50%...like the Roth/Hagar thing a while back...I read that worked well...

There must be some strange pissing contest going on with Jagger...

Ronnie is the most gentle person and a courteous player. The Rainbow Concert was a million years ago but even then he knew how to fit in and make a statement, between Pete T. and E.C. no less,,,No one needed to sit but Taylor could sit out the Wood era, he'll do anything they ask apparently. Mick T. has a great right hand. Any video of him playing during the verses last week show his subtle way of playing rhythm, For fks sake the chords are right there on a TelePrompTer if needed. How's he sitting out on Far Away Eyes and Happy, songs that fall apart because Ronnie is playing lap steel... Sad, sad, sad... Of course Taylor now looks like he's overplaying, who wants to travel from LA to Toronto to play one solo. There are great strip clubs there so I hope he's paid in 5's....

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DoomandGloom

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Munichhilton

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DoomandGloom
Stones have created this baloney. Teasing us with MT than going back to the same old thing last night. Ronnie and Mick T, they don't deserve this controversy. Let them play and have fun, instead it's a battle of the bands mentality. Very queer, unprofessional and disrespectful to both guys, the audience and the music. I don't think this will change.. 50+ is a lost opportunity.

It really sort of is. Seems like both guys should get 50%...like the Roth/Hagar thing a while back...I read that worked well...

There must be some strange pissing contest going on with Jagger...

Ronnie is the most gentle person and a courteous player. The Rainbow Concert was a million years ago but even then he knew how to fit in and make a statement, between Pete T. and E.C. no less,,,No one needed to sit but Taylor could sit out the Wood era, he'll do anything they ask apparently. Mick T. has a great right hand. Any video of him playing during the verses last week show his subtle way of playing rhythm, For fks sake the chords are right there on a TelePrompTer if needed. How's he sitting out on Far Away Eyes and Happy, songs that fall apart because Ronnie is playing lap steel... Sad, sad, sad... Of course Taylor now looks like he's overplaying, who wants to travel from LA to Toronto to play one solo. There are great strip clubs there so I hope he's paid in 5's....

Don't know what's going on, but since 1989 Jagger has known best...currently with an iron fist...

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton

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rollingon

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GravityBoy
Dear Mick Jagger,

I thought we had an agreement.

What are you doing? Don't welch on our agreement.

More Mick Taylor.. please.

Cheers,

Gravityboy

100%

And Mr. Jagger, and in addition to the actual concert experience involving Mick Taylor more into the concerts is the only way to get a really high quality and MUSICALLY interesting concert dvd/blu-ray box from this tour!
(the guests haven't been musically very interesting, it's all about the show)

Pray he doesn't alter the agreement further...

Mr. Jagger...PLEASE TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 20:30 by rollingon.