Tell Me :
Talk
Just to add: my fear is that Jagger will use his omnipotent non-musical power here and reduce Taylor's "achieved" role (or if that was just a test?). It is easy for him to do that. But my hope is that he reacts to it by musical terms, and see that as a new challange to kick his own butt. That he needs to do better. We will see that in the next concert.
- Doxa
Dooxaa, you always put so much weight on everybodies "role in the band"
. Do you really think so low of Jagger that he rather throughs out a song that he wrote and as I think should be proud to present because his role is in danger?
I think the problem with Sway is, that his studio vocals are SO good, that it is difficult to repeat. The guitar part is easier to repeat than this so special vocals.
Well, you are right that I put much weight to "roles", since that's the lesson from history (for me): this band has always been a battle-field of different tensions, egos, drives, strange oppositions, teams, etc. And in most cases - at least in their hey-day - that produced a helluva great music.
I don't think low at all of Jagger. It just stroke me so hard his act during those two new numbers, since for the first time I've seen during this tour, he's been been like an "odd man out", out of his strong self and as a man in control of everything. I am sure he also loves Taylor's input, but I think that is only one dimension he cares about and feels like needing to take care of (that is: he does not want go all the way just in the ride of the music here and now). He could be the only one in the band really thinking "is this good for the show?", "how do the audience react?". It could be that he is not happy at all with his own performance - that he can't handle the vocals of "Knocking" and "Sway", which alone could be a reason to kick those songs out (and hopely try some others with Taylor). And I can't blame Jagger thinking that if he is not happy with his own performance, that it has consequences to the whole performance of any song, since he is so central part in everything.
But in the bigger picture - let me be frank - I see the tension brought by Taylor more between Keith and Jagger than between Taylor and Wood.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:21 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:22 by His Majesty.
This is how he sounds when he's unsure
On CYHMK he is doing the "Tumbling Dice-trick", singing a bit before the beat, to be able to rest and to avoid staying long on every note...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 13:21 by DandelionPowderman.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:23 by His Majesty.
Better in Austin?? Did you recognise the melody in that version as well? I didn't...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:23 by His Majesty.
To me this observation sounds strange. Especially in "Knocking" I haven't seen so "weak" Jagger for ages. Both singing- and performing-wise. Straight from teh start he sounds uninspired and just trusting in his routines (which, of course, are, extraordinary), but he almost losts the feeling - or idea - for the singing as his part goes on, and finally sounds like doing karaoke - the lasts lines are simply a struggle, so that finally the mark of "yeah" (or whatever it is) for the band to start the jam part, sounds like a relief to him. "Finally it came".
Or was he waiting almost as much as each of us Taylor's solo, and was nervous how might that go....
Anyway, Jagger's body language and his performance while playing maracas and listening to Taylor's solo, was not very inspired either. Fisrt time this tour I had the feeling that Jagger has run out of ideas and point. Like he didn't have a natural role there. Or was he just digging Taylor?
"Sway" was better, but still insecure performance from Mick.
To repeat myself, I made this observation beacuse Jagger's been extremily strong and inspired throughout the tour.
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:33 by His Majesty.
I think you're reading a bit too much into this. He is 70 years old, and he chooses his moments where he can give those 100 percent. This just isn't such a moment, as it's a song, mostly dominated by instrumentation.
The "insecurity" by Mick (only a few times, though) was more due to three guitar players who all played differently during the verses
I think Mick handled the difficult parts in Sway ("There must be ways", "It's just that demon life". "One day I woke up to find" ), where there is dynamics and use of range involved way better than I expected.
If we should complain about Mick's singing, I would choose songs like JJF and Tumbling Dice instead.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 14:32 by DandelionPowderman.
In any song he does anything, seem to affect to that, but of course, in "Knocking" most evidently (the last moments when he brings the song to final (with Bobby) - and not letting Jagger to ruin it - is one of the most effective moments in the recent Stones history. Really one of those moments one is experiencing something historical). But I made the observation already when I saw Silver Dagger's clip of "Midnigt Rambler" last year.
- Doxa
Exactly! My impression as well, and you put it more accuratively.
- Doxa
A beautiful moment (CYHMK), for sure! But MR, S and Sway more for sentimantal reasons than for pure musical reasons, imo.
Are you mainly thinking of the visual dynamics when you say "in any song"?
I'm glad you were happy with it, Open G. MT was excellent
I can be reading too much into it, and I really hope I am making a wrong interpretation, but's the way I see it.
Your point about Mick being insecure thanks to "three guitar attack" goes exactly along the lines I have argued here. Must easier to trust and follow Chuck.
"Complaining"? Again that very word to kill all the honest observation-making, judging and the point in discussing anything. Only cheerleading allowed when talking about the Rolling Stones performances, right? C'mon!
- Doxa
The trouble with Sway is that Jagger sings it like a campfire song when they aren't those kinds of lyrics. He just needs to stand still and deliver the emotional content of the lyrics.
At the 7.30 mark in CYHMK, the Stones became a rock n roll band again.
Just talking in terms of musical dynamics. For me "Sway" and "Midnight Rambler" has no less musical - in contrast to sentimental - reason than "Knocking". With "Satisfaction" it is different, and that's basically just Taylor being on stage, and doing as little "damage" as possible...
- Doxa
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: May 22, 2013 11:47
So what other songs would we love to see Mick Taylor play on. Realistically I'd love to see him play on Gimme Shelter, Wild Horses and Brown Sugar. Dreaming, I'd love them to put Carol, Little Queenie, Silver Train and Time Waits For No One in the set.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 11:57
Witness, I read the post you quoted now, and I was impressed. I was about to reply, but then something happened. I am happy our views are getting nearer each other, even though I have always felt that we don't have so much in disagreement as you seem to (sometimes) think (maybe I rheorically sound sometimes more extreme as I actually am). Your thoughts about the "new professionalism" that took place in 1989, have had an effect on me, and I think that is some of the things I keep in my mind when I discuss the post 1989 happenings (aka "Vegas Era"). But I hope you see my stance - my criticism of Vegas Era - better now with this move with Taylor to the realm of unpredictable.
And seemingly I just above repeated the same point as you did just from a different angle!
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 11:59 by Doxa.
And seemingly I just above repeated the same point as you did just from a different angle!
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 11:59 by Doxa.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 12:22
Quote
Doxa
And I have my terrible fears that "Sway" and "Knocking" might suffer a quick death soon. It is Jagger's position and ringmaster role in danger, and he - in VERY CONTRAST TO ANY SONG OR PERFORMANCE DURING THIS TOUR - was somehow confused, uncertain in his delivery and performance in those songs. Jagger's been so incredibly strong - really leading the band by his example - during this tour, so it was odd to see Jagger like that. And I am afraid he will do something about it.
- Doxa
Just to add: my fear is that Jagger will use his omnipotent non-musical power here and reduce Taylor's "achieved" role (or if that was just a test?). It is easy for him to do that. But my hope is that he reacts to it by musical terms, and see that as a new challange to kick his own butt. That he needs to do better. We will see that in the next concert.
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
elunsi
()
Date: May 22, 2013 12:22
Quote
Doxa
So as one guess, only Jagger - and his side kick and his "band leader" Chuck Leavell - are in the opposition here (even I am sure Chuck, like any musician in the band, loves to play with Taylor). And I have my terrible fears that "Sway" and "Knocking" might suffer a quick death soon. It is Jagger's position and ringmaster role in danger, and he - in VERY CONTRAST TO ANY SONG OR PERFORMANCE DURING THIS TOUR - was somehow confused, uncertain in his delivery and performance in those songs. Jagger's been so incredibly strong - really leading the band by his example - during this tour, so it was odd to see Jagger like that. And I am afraid he will do something about it.
I first thought that bringing up Taylor would "help" Jagger, but I think it is Keith who actually gains of having him. And all of us who love unpredictable guitar-lead band.
- Doxa
Dooxaa, you always put so much weight on everybodies "role in the band"
. Do you really think so low of Jagger that he rather throughs out a song that he wrote and as I think should be proud to present because his role is in danger?I think the problem with Sway is, that his studio vocals are SO good, that it is difficult to repeat. The guitar part is easier to repeat than this so special vocals.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 12:43
Quote
elunsiQuote
Doxa
So as one guess, only Jagger - and his side kick and his "band leader" Chuck Leavell - are in the opposition here (even I am sure Chuck, like any musician in the band, loves to play with Taylor). And I have my terrible fears that "Sway" and "Knocking" might suffer a quick death soon. It is Jagger's position and ringmaster role in danger, and he - in VERY CONTRAST TO ANY SONG OR PERFORMANCE DURING THIS TOUR - was somehow confused, uncertain in his delivery and performance in those songs. Jagger's been so incredibly strong - really leading the band by his example - during this tour, so it was odd to see Jagger like that. And I am afraid he will do something about it.
I first thought that bringing up Taylor would "help" Jagger, but I think it is Keith who actually gains of having him. And all of us who love unpredictable guitar-lead band.
- Doxa
Dooxaa, you always put so much weight on everybodies "role in the band"
I think the problem with Sway is, that his studio vocals are SO good, that it is difficult to repeat. The guitar part is easier to repeat than this so special vocals.
Well, you are right that I put much weight to "roles", since that's the lesson from history (for me): this band has always been a battle-field of different tensions, egos, drives, strange oppositions, teams, etc. And in most cases - at least in their hey-day - that produced a helluva great music.
I don't think low at all of Jagger. It just stroke me so hard his act during those two new numbers, since for the first time I've seen during this tour, he's been been like an "odd man out", out of his strong self and as a man in control of everything. I am sure he also loves Taylor's input, but I think that is only one dimension he cares about and feels like needing to take care of (that is: he does not want go all the way just in the ride of the music here and now). He could be the only one in the band really thinking "is this good for the show?", "how do the audience react?". It could be that he is not happy at all with his own performance - that he can't handle the vocals of "Knocking" and "Sway", which alone could be a reason to kick those songs out (and hopely try some others with Taylor). And I can't blame Jagger thinking that if he is not happy with his own performance, that it has consequences to the whole performance of any song, since he is so central part in everything.
But in the bigger picture - let me be frank - I see the tension brought by Taylor more between Keith and Jagger than between Taylor and Wood.
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:05
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:21 by His Majesty.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:05
He was not "out", and he handled the vocals on those songs just as good as he handles the other songs
I don't think Taylor brings any tension at all. He only brings joy. This is a celebration of the band-tour.
I don't think Taylor brings any tension at all. He only brings joy. This is a celebration of the band-tour.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:18
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:22 by His Majesty.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:20
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
He was not "out", and he handled the vocals on those songs just as good as he handles the other songs
I don't think Taylor brings any tension at all. He only brings joy. This is a celebration of the band-tour.
Ok, could just be that I do not like how he sang them. To me he sounds weak and unsure.
This is how he sounds when he's unsure
On CYHMK he is doing the "Tumbling Dice-trick", singing a bit before the beat, to be able to rest and to avoid staying long on every note...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 13:21 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:31
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:23 by His Majesty.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:35
Quote
His Majesty
He sounds better and more relaxed there, just needs reminding of the words.
Better in Austin?? Did you recognise the melody in that version as well? I didn't...
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:36
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:23 by His Majesty.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:49
Quote
His Majesty
Edited my post.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 13:51
Hmm.. on the second thought, I am not happy at all of that description "role in the band" (by elunse), For me it is more like a question of dynamics within the band: the whole band is like a field of force, driven by different tendencies; if you put some odd a force there - like Taylor now - it affects to everything. Before those numbers - starting with "Midnight Rambler" - I couldn't believe that adding one 'new' player there, could have so much affect to the whole sound and dynamics of the band.
My guess - based on on experience - that is Jagger who is not happy shaking the boat too much now. The whole "Vegas" boat, with its predictable features, is pretty much his brain-child. He wants to keep it safe and sure.
Maybe Richards as well during those strongest Vegas days, when he took his second frontman role, many times just freeriding the music, a bit too seriously. But that Richards the show man, the performer, is gone. I think his approach to music is different now. To me that has been the biggest musical surprise within the core band during this new tour. Keith "blames" Charlie for having more responsibilities to his and Ronnie's shoulders, and I love to think he is right (that Charlie is also a bit tired of the old concept). Keith is a shadow of his past as a player, but I really appreciate his dedication to the job now. It is the music that comes first, not the show (or even ego). It is the "old" Keith with teh philosophy of "I shine when the band shines". Jagger - by contrast - is the same as always (even though having fine-tuned his own act). But even the idea of going more to the core, guitar-based sound is in itself a move out of the safe and sure formula they've used for years. (And I have the picture that it was Jagger who wanted to get rid of that back in the 80's when the formula was created).
So you add to the already more strenghtened and powerful and responsible guitar section a powerhouse called Mick Taylor, then what happens? It's no Vegas no longer, baby! That Mick could "control" Keith and Ronnie, and keep them in a safe and sure track, wasn't any longer possible when the duo was strengthened with Taylor.
So my concern - if anything I speculate here has any point - is how Jagger reacts to the new "revolution" happening within the band, which might lead the group to a wild guitar-lead - music comes first - rock and roll band, to be odds with many show-aspects, choreographies, lights etc of the show. How far Jagger lets that go? Like said, I am happy if this three number comes a standard, and I don't need much more, but I have the feeling that there are people in the very band who would like to go it further.
It's now what I understand with Keith saying of him and Ronnie "needing Taylor". It's not that they can't fill their own post by their recent conditions, but that of having Taylor would make the band more to go according to their visions how to the band should sound like. They re-discovered the musicians in themselves.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 14:01 by Doxa.
My guess - based on on experience - that is Jagger who is not happy shaking the boat too much now. The whole "Vegas" boat, with its predictable features, is pretty much his brain-child. He wants to keep it safe and sure.
Maybe Richards as well during those strongest Vegas days, when he took his second frontman role, many times just freeriding the music, a bit too seriously. But that Richards the show man, the performer, is gone. I think his approach to music is different now. To me that has been the biggest musical surprise within the core band during this new tour. Keith "blames" Charlie for having more responsibilities to his and Ronnie's shoulders, and I love to think he is right (that Charlie is also a bit tired of the old concept). Keith is a shadow of his past as a player, but I really appreciate his dedication to the job now. It is the music that comes first, not the show (or even ego). It is the "old" Keith with teh philosophy of "I shine when the band shines". Jagger - by contrast - is the same as always (even though having fine-tuned his own act). But even the idea of going more to the core, guitar-based sound is in itself a move out of the safe and sure formula they've used for years. (And I have the picture that it was Jagger who wanted to get rid of that back in the 80's when the formula was created).
So you add to the already more strenghtened and powerful and responsible guitar section a powerhouse called Mick Taylor, then what happens? It's no Vegas no longer, baby! That Mick could "control" Keith and Ronnie, and keep them in a safe and sure track, wasn't any longer possible when the duo was strengthened with Taylor.
So my concern - if anything I speculate here has any point - is how Jagger reacts to the new "revolution" happening within the band, which might lead the group to a wild guitar-lead - music comes first - rock and roll band, to be odds with many show-aspects, choreographies, lights etc of the show. How far Jagger lets that go? Like said, I am happy if this three number comes a standard, and I don't need much more, but I have the feeling that there are people in the very band who would like to go it further.
It's now what I understand with Keith saying of him and Ronnie "needing Taylor". It's not that they can't fill their own post by their recent conditions, but that of having Taylor would make the band more to go according to their visions how to the band should sound like. They re-discovered the musicians in themselves.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 14:01 by Doxa.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
MartinB
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:05
Great analysis, Doxa. We can never be sure but I share your feelings about the dynamics in the band.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:11
<I couldn't believe that adding one 'new' player there, could have so much affect to the whole sound and dynamics of the band>
On MR and Sway it doesn't, really? On CYHMK it does for sure.
On MR and Sway it doesn't, really? On CYHMK it does for sure.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:23
Quote
DandelionPowderman
He was not "out", and he handled the vocals on those songs just as good as he handles the other songs
To me this observation sounds strange. Especially in "Knocking" I haven't seen so "weak" Jagger for ages. Both singing- and performing-wise. Straight from teh start he sounds uninspired and just trusting in his routines (which, of course, are, extraordinary), but he almost losts the feeling - or idea - for the singing as his part goes on, and finally sounds like doing karaoke - the lasts lines are simply a struggle, so that finally the mark of "yeah" (or whatever it is) for the band to start the jam part, sounds like a relief to him. "Finally it came".
Or was he waiting almost as much as each of us Taylor's solo, and was nervous how might that go....
Anyway, Jagger's body language and his performance while playing maracas and listening to Taylor's solo, was not very inspired either. Fisrt time this tour I had the feeling that Jagger has run out of ideas and point. Like he didn't have a natural role there. Or was he just digging Taylor?
"Sway" was better, but still insecure performance from Mick.
To repeat myself, I made this observation beacuse Jagger's been extremily strong and inspired throughout the tour.
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:31
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 01:33 by His Majesty.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:31
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
He was not "out", and he handled the vocals on those songs just as good as he handles the other songs
To me this observation sounds strange. Especially in "Knocking" I haven't seen so "weak" Jagger for ages. Both singing- and performing-wise. Straight from teh start he sounds uninspired and just trusting in his routines (which, of course, are, extraordinary), but he almost losts the feeling - or idea - for the singing as his part goes on, and finally sounds like doing karaoke - the lasts lines are simply a struggle, so that finally the mark of "yeah" (or whatever it is) for the band to start the jam part, sounds like a relief to him. "Finally it came".
Or was he waiting almost as much as each of us Taylor's solo, and was nervous how might that go....
Anyway, Jagger's body language and his performance while playing maracas and listening to Taylor's solo, was not very inspired either. Fisrt time this tour I had the feeling that Jagger has run out of ideas and point. Like he didn't have a natural role there. Or was he just digging Taylor?
"Sway" was better, but still insecure performance from Mick.
To repeat myself, I made this observation beacuse Jagger's been extremily strong and inspired throughout the tour.
- Doxa
I think you're reading a bit too much into this. He is 70 years old, and he chooses his moments where he can give those 100 percent. This just isn't such a moment, as it's a song, mostly dominated by instrumentation.
The "insecurity" by Mick (only a few times, though) was more due to three guitar players who all played differently during the verses
I think Mick handled the difficult parts in Sway ("There must be ways", "It's just that demon life". "One day I woke up to find" ), where there is dynamics and use of range involved way better than I expected.
If we should complain about Mick's singing, I would choose songs like JJF and Tumbling Dice instead.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 14:32 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:36
Quote
DandelionPowderman
<I couldn't believe that adding one 'new' player there, could have so much affect to the whole sound and dynamics of the band>
On MR and Sway it doesn't, really? On CYHMK it does for sure.
In any song he does anything, seem to affect to that, but of course, in "Knocking" most evidently (the last moments when he brings the song to final (with Bobby) - and not letting Jagger to ruin it - is one of the most effective moments in the recent Stones history. Really one of those moments one is experiencing something historical). But I made the observation already when I saw Silver Dagger's clip of "Midnigt Rambler" last year.
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:39
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Doxa
They re-discovered the musicians in themselves.
- Doxa
I think they are in the process of re-discovering the musicians in themselves and it's still ongoing. At times they all look quite startled by the power and music that appears during these concerts.
Engaging stuff for sure!
Exactly! My impression as well, and you put it more accuratively.
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:39
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
<I couldn't believe that adding one 'new' player there, could have so much affect to the whole sound and dynamics of the band>
On MR and Sway it doesn't, really? On CYHMK it does for sure.
In any song he does anything, seem to affect to that, but of course, in "Knocking" most evidently (the last moments when he brings the song to final (with Bobby) - and not letting Jagger to ruin it - is one of the most effective moments in the recent Stones history. Really one of those moments one is experiencing something historical). But I made the observation already when I saw Silver Dagger's clip of "Midnigt Rambler" last year.
- Doxa
A beautiful moment (CYHMK), for sure! But MR, S and Sway more for sentimantal reasons than for pure musical reasons, imo.
Are you mainly thinking of the visual dynamics when you say "in any song"?
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:46
MJ vocals on Sway and CYHMK will never work live anymore - those songs have to be sung with attitude and emotion and time has run out for MJ. You can not sing those songs like pop songs - they were mood songs on Sticky Fingers capturing a time and moment of youth and chaos. But those guitar lines are timeless and MT proved he can still deliver to a sold out crowd in a difficult enviornment to play in and try not to steal the show for MJ who this time has to wait on stage like MT had to wait backstage on this tour as MT played justice to the songs with his solos and jagger fiddles on stage and makes gestures to MT.
play that guitar boy
play that guitar boy
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:49
Quote
OpenG
MJ vocals on Sway and CYHMK will never work live anymore - those songs have to be sung with attitude and emotion and time has run out for MJ. You can not sing those songs like pop songs - they were mood songs on Sticky Fingers capturing a time and moment of youth and chaos. But those guitar lines are timeless and MT proved he can still deliver to a sold out crowd in a difficult enviornment to play in and try not to steal the show for MJ who this time has to wait on stage like MT had to wait backstage on this tour as MT played justice to the songs with his solos and jagger fiddles on stage and makes gestures to MT.
play that guitar boy
I'm glad you were happy with it, Open G. MT was excellent
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:51
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
He was not "out", and he handled the vocals on those songs just as good as he handles the other songs
To me this observation sounds strange. Especially in "Knocking" I haven't seen so "weak" Jagger for ages. Both singing- and performing-wise. Straight from teh start he sounds uninspired and just trusting in his routines (which, of course, are, extraordinary), but he almost losts the feeling - or idea - for the singing as his part goes on, and finally sounds like doing karaoke - the lasts lines are simply a struggle, so that finally the mark of "yeah" (or whatever it is) for the band to start the jam part, sounds like a relief to him. "Finally it came".
Or was he waiting almost as much as each of us Taylor's solo, and was nervous how might that go....
Anyway, Jagger's body language and his performance while playing maracas and listening to Taylor's solo, was not very inspired either. Fisrt time this tour I had the feeling that Jagger has run out of ideas and point. Like he didn't have a natural role there. Or was he just digging Taylor?
"Sway" was better, but still insecure performance from Mick.
To repeat myself, I made this observation beacuse Jagger's been extremily strong and inspired throughout the tour.
- Doxa
I think you're reading a bit too much into this. He is 70 years old, and he chooses his moments where he can give those 100 percent. This just isn't such a moment, as it's a song, mostly dominated by instrumentation.
The "insecurity" by Mick (only a few times, though) was more due to three guitar players who all played differently during the verses
I think Mick handled the difficult parts in Sway ("There must be ways", "It's just that demon life". "One day I woke up to find" ), where there is dynamics and use of range involved way better than I expected.
If we should complain about Mick's singing, I would choose songs like JJF and Tumbling Dice instead.
I can be reading too much into it, and I really hope I am making a wrong interpretation, but's the way I see it.
Your point about Mick being insecure thanks to "three guitar attack" goes exactly along the lines I have argued here. Must easier to trust and follow Chuck.
"Complaining"? Again that very word to kill all the honest observation-making, judging and the point in discussing anything. Only cheerleading allowed when talking about the Rolling Stones performances, right? C'mon!
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:51
Quote
His Majesty
His vocals on Sway and CYHMK didn't work, unless he can find a more comfortable and effective way of singing them I doubt we'll be seeing them on the set list much.
The trouble with Sway is that Jagger sings it like a campfire song when they aren't those kinds of lyrics. He just needs to stand still and deliver the emotional content of the lyrics.
At the 7.30 mark in CYHMK, the Stones became a rock n roll band again.
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:53
<"Complaining"? Again that very word to kill all the honest observation-making, judging and the point in discussing anything. Only cheerleading allowed when talking about the Rolling Stones performances, right? C'mon!>
You lost me there, Doxa
Should I have said criticise instead?
You lost me there, Doxa
Should I have said criticise instead?
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
OpenG
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:57
yeah at the 7:30 mark the rolling stones became a rock and roll band again as MT takes the lead and takes them out with the outro riff as he faces the band and back is to the audience and MJ stands there this time with nothing to do
play the guitar boy
play the guitar boy
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:59
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
<I couldn't believe that adding one 'new' player there, could have so much affect to the whole sound and dynamics of the band>
On MR and Sway it doesn't, really? On CYHMK it does for sure.
In any song he does anything, seem to affect to that, but of course, in "Knocking" most evidently (the last moments when he brings the song to final (with Bobby) - and not letting Jagger to ruin it - is one of the most effective moments in the recent Stones history. Really one of those moments one is experiencing something historical). But I made the observation already when I saw Silver Dagger's clip of "Midnigt Rambler" last year.
- Doxa
A beautiful moment (CYHMK), for sure! But MR, S and Sway more for sentimantal reasons than for pure musical reasons, imo.
Are you mainly thinking of the visual dynamics when you say "in any song"?
Just talking in terms of musical dynamics. For me "Sway" and "Midnight Rambler" has no less musical - in contrast to sentimental - reason than "Knocking". With "Satisfaction" it is different, and that's basically just Taylor being on stage, and doing as little "damage" as possible...
- Doxa
Re: We want Mick Taylor on more than one song please
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:59
Yep at that point he was leading the band.
This Thread has been closed