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gotdablouse

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Mathijs

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gotdablouse

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punkfloyd
Does anybody know the specific reason(s) Mick did not tour North America or Europe in 1988? Was it contractual to not tour (N. America) solo? Fear of weak ticket sales in America? Both?

I think in 1988 I was so desperate to see the Stones live I would have settled for a Jagger solo concert. I wonder if others here feel the same.

Good question, he was about to tour in late 87 (USA ?) before Jeff Beck slammed the door on him during rehearsals in London in August (if memory serves) for offering him peanuts to play. Why that delayed things so much, dunno...probably wanted to warm up in easier markets first...FF to the summer of 1988 when he met with Keith in NYC then to the RnR HOF induction, the Cohl offer, the "let's give it a shot at Eddie Grant's studio"...and the rest is history as they say. Something I didn't remember reading at the time was, according to Rocky Dijon, a rumour about a solo album with Satriani if the writing sessions with Keith had failed...to fulfil the 4 new record deal with CBS.

Not entirely correct -Jagger rehearsed and auditioned in February 1988. It is not entirely sure whether Jeff Beck walked out of the rehearsals, or that he didn't even start them. Jagger toured Japan and Australia, and planned to tour Indonesia as well. Indonesia was scrapped due to safety according to some, but the actual reason was money. Ticket prices simply where too high for Indonesia.

Mathijs

Right, Indonesia rings a bell now, not the February rehearsals though. I'm positive he rehearsed with Beck though and I'm also pretty sure it was in August 1987 because there was an interview done in London at that time in "Rock & Folk" (or Best ?) for PC where the intervewer said Mick was in a crummy mood apparently because the rehearsals with Beck weren't going well and that he had in fact just slammed the door, but I think he asked Mick who said he didn't want to talk about it. Might still have that somewhere and I think there are some details in a Beck biography I must have somewhere too...

Jagger did a short show with Jeff beck in the Country Club, October 20 1987. I think the only time Jagger did a solo show with Beck. But it must have after this show that Beck refused to tour with Jagger.

Mathijs

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VT22
Playing with very competent musicians doesn't make sense, is that what Jagger was referring to, or just covering Stones music ?

the latter. But on the other hand - does playing Stones music really need competent musicians? Isn't it rather about the right feelin'? And if it really needs competent musicians – why hasn't Keith been fired some 35 years ago?

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slewan
But on the other hand - does playing Stones music really need competent musicians?

that's an excellent observation. i can play it. and, i've been called many things...but never have i been called competent.

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T&A

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nick

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T&A
he did; but it was a rather short tour.

Wandering Spirit Tour??? That 1 private show for friends and industry insiders was a tour???

if five shows in 2012 can constitute a tour, then i see no reason to establish a lower limit....

If the Webster Hall show constitutes a "tour" then the Trabendo show needs to be counted towards the recent tour.

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nick

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T&A

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nick

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T&A
he did; but it was a rather short tour.

Wandering Spirit Tour??? That 1 private show for friends and industry insiders was a tour???

if five shows in 2012 can constitute a tour, then i see no reason to establish a lower limit....

If the Webster Hall show constitutes a "tour" then the Trabendo show needs to be counted towards the recent tour.

my people and your people will have to sit down and go thru these negotiations line by line...

lol, you a good sport T&A!

The Jagger solo tour is what it is. In Japan, home to a huge Stones' where the Stones hadn't played since the Sixties, fan base, deamnd was significant enough to merit two shows at Tokyo Dome. I remember the female fans were happy enough - "Mick is so handsome!" -, but lots of hard core fans were disappointed by the show, because of the technically proficient, but soulless performance. At the end of the day, the prevailing sentiment seemed to be happiness with having been able to see a Stone. Of course, when the Stones finally made it to Tokyo in 1990, demand exploded and they sold out ten shows at the Dome - amazing.

Japan has been fortunate over the years. The first Clapton/Beck shows took place there, and of course, George Harrison's only post-74 tour was Japan w/ Clapton. I was out of the country during that time, and have always regretted not having been able to see Harrison on slide. Those were special shows.

From THE ROLLING STONES CHRONICLE:

1987: August 22, "The Sun reports that Mick's projected tour, due to start in October, is to be shelved due to a row with Jeff Beck. A spokesman for Mick says, 'He had been rehearsing for the tour for a month. Jeff is well known for being difficult to work with and tempers finally snapped. But the tour has been postponed because Jeff is a brilliant guitarist and will be very hard to replace. It now looks like the tour will go ahead in the New Year.'"

November 4, "The Sun follows up with Jeff's side of the story, `I quit the tour because Mick only offered me peanuts to play with him. It was laughable, an insult. I wanted to teach him a lesson because I believe if you want the best you have to pay for it. The kind of money he offered is what you pay an ordinary session musician. Mick's problem is that he's a meanie. He is no more than a glorified accountant. He counts every single penny. For someone with his money, I can't believe how tight he is...I'd still love to go on tour with the old geezer. He's just got to make me a proper offer. To show there's no hard feelings, I went to Los Angeles with him to film the video for his next single THROWAWAY.'"

In Rod Stewart's recent autobiography, he said he booked Jeff to join him for a few songs in every show for a long tour. But Beck quit after a few shows saying Rod's audience consisted of "housewives."

I personally have never liked Beck or his playing and am amazed Mick and Rod regard him so highly.

The world wasn't quite as small in 1988. If you didn't play LA, NY and London then it was almost as if the tour didn't happen. He could play some shows in farflung places, make some money and not have it detract from a possible Stones tour the next year.

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LastStopThisTown

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JohnnyBGoode

So when the Stones got back together for Steel Wheels in 90 they decided to do this version of HTW, right? IT'S NOT THAT FAR OFF!!!!

So they didn't do it that way in 89, only in 90 then?

The Australian TV coverage of that concert, from the 88 tour was excellent! I enjoyed the New Zealand show, we had not seen the Stones since 73. There's a 'distant' video I made of the NZ show somewhere. Jagger was great on his own (sorry if that upsets someone) and the song choices were too!
It was nice to have him here.

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midimannz
The Australian TV coverage of that concert, from the 88 tour was excellent! I enjoyed the New Zealand show, we had not seen the Stones since 73. There's a 'distant' video I made of the NZ show somewhere. Jagger was great on his own (sorry if that upsets someone) and the song choices were too!
It was nice to have him here.

Put it up!

Do you think there is enough interest?

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Title5Take1
From THE ROLLING STONES CHRONICLE:

1987: August 22, "The Sun reports that Mick's projected tour, due to start in October, is to be shelved due to a row with Jeff Beck. A spokesman for Mick says, 'He had been rehearsing for the tour for a month. Jeff is well known for being difficult to work with and tempers finally snapped. But the tour has been postponed because Jeff is a brilliant guitarist and will be very hard to replace. It now looks like the tour will go ahead in the New Year.'"

November 4, "The Sun follows up with Jeff's side of the story, `I quit the tour because Mick only offered me peanuts to play with him. It was laughable, an insult. I wanted to teach him a lesson because I believe if you want the best you have to pay for it. The kind of money he offered is what you pay an ordinary session musician. Mick's problem is that he's a meanie. He is no more than a glorified accountant. He counts every single penny. For someone with his money, I can't believe how tight he is...I'd still love to go on tour with the old geezer. He's just got to make me a proper offer. To show there's no hard feelings, I went to Los Angeles with him to film the video for his next single THROWAWAY.'"

In Rod Stewart's recent autobiography, he said he booked Jeff to join him for a few songs in every show for a long tour. But Beck quit after a few shows saying Rod's audience consisted of "housewives."

I personally have never liked Beck or his playing and am amazed Mick and Rod regard him so highly.

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GasLightStreet

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LastStopThisTown

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JohnnyBGoode

So when the Stones got back together for Steel Wheels in 90 they decided to do this version of HTW, right? IT'S NOT THAT FAR OFF!!!!

So they didn't do it that way in 89, only in 90 then?

Was just testing whether the Pedantic Police were still checking this board.

My view has always been that Mick could do well as a solo act and possibly earn more because he didn't have to share it, he'd certainly get less grief.

However, he'd be playing large arenas rather than stadiums and,in my opinion, Mick wants to be at the top of the league and not a successful mid table team.

I think Mick also realized he looked and sounded even older going solo trying to compete with "new" acts like Madonna, Prince or Jackson.

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Redhotcarpet
I think Mick also realized he looked and sounded even older going solo trying to compete with "new" acts like Madonna, Prince or Jackson.

I think this is an excellent point. Mick at a unusually old looking 45 in 1988 was chasing Madonna, Prince, Michael Jackson AND George Michael, Sting without hope. And as I recall in 1987/1988 there was a little spike in teen pop stars like Debbie Gibson and Tiffany, making him see all the more out of touch (with mainstream audiences).

Mick with the Stones never chased anybody. They chased him.

I think this is the essence of my issue with solo Jagger.

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slewan

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VT22
Playing with very competent musicians doesn't make sense, is that what Jagger was referring to, or just covering Stones music ?

the latter. But on the other hand - does playing Stones music really need competent musicians? Isn't it rather about the right feelin'? And if it really needs competent musicians – why hasn't Keith been fired some 35 years ago?

Competent musicians have the right feeling, to me Richards doesn't have a monopoly on that when playing Stones music. Keith and Mick are siamese twins to the audience though, and the Rolling Stones are a sum of their parts, Mick is the frontman. They need each other to sell out arenas.

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midimannz
Do you think there is enough interest?

Absolutely.

Preparing for zipping and uploading to the vault now. Should be up tomorrow
I'm pleased to be able to give something back!

I went to the New Zealand show at westertn springs.I really enjoyed it,1st time I had ever seen a Rolling Stone

Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway

I smell a keytar during Start Me Up.

I'm enjoying seeing these live clips and don't find them rotten at all. But the "conflicting opinions" does bring to mind an experience I'm probably not alone in having among Stones fans. Seeing/hearing a Stones cover with a friend, who says, "Wow, this is better than the Stones version." I once played the Bette Midler BEAST OF BURDEN video for a friend (because the video is amusing) and my friend said, "Wow, Bette Midler does BURDEN better than the Stones." Which made me want to throttle him.

Not the only time that's happened, either.

Unable to open the DVD copy sorry. I originally got it from IORR - IO recall it was urbansteel who put it up.

[shidoobeewithstonesdoug.yuku.com]


Maybe a request in that direction will get it. His version was the stereo one. I can read it and play it on the bluray, just cannot see it on the PC to copy
I use DVDFAB or Modiac DVD Ripper, one of those two will often pick it up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-21 08:50 by midimannz.

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Title5Take1
From THE ROLLING STONES CHRONICLE:

1987: August 22, "The Sun reports that Mick's projected tour, due to start in October, is to be shelved due to a row with Jeff Beck. A spokesman for Mick says, 'He had been rehearsing for the tour for a month. Jeff is well known for being difficult to work with and tempers finally snapped. But the tour has been postponed because Jeff is a brilliant guitarist and will be very hard to replace. It now looks like the tour will go ahead in the New Year.'"

November 4, "The Sun follows up with Jeff's side of the story, `I quit the tour because Mick only offered me peanuts to play with him. It was laughable, an insult. I wanted to teach him a lesson because I believe if you want the best you have to pay for it. The kind of money he offered is what you pay an ordinary session musician. Mick's problem is that he's a meanie. He is no more than a glorified accountant. He counts every single penny. For someone with his money, I can't believe how tight he is...I'd still love to go on tour with the old geezer. He's just got to make me a proper offer. To show there's no hard feelings, I went to Los Angeles with him to film the video for his next single THROWAWAY.'"

In Rod Stewart's recent autobiography, he said he booked Jeff to join him for a few songs in every show for a long tour. But Beck quit after a few shows saying Rod's audience consisted of "housewives."

I personally have never liked Beck or his playing and am amazed Mick and Rod regard him so highly.

But the problem is that to date no rehearsals in 1987 are ever reported as far as I know. A guy like Nico Zentgraf normally gets a message when Jagger takes a pee, and he doesn't report any rehearsals.

Mathijs

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slew
Here is one thing that I agree with Keith on 100% if Mick Jagger was going to do a solo tour he should have done a solo tour and not played Rolling Stones songs with another band. Keith had a much better solo show than Mick.

I agree, but Keith did Stones songs as well.

Little T+A, Gimmie Shelter, I Wanna Be Your Man, Happy, Before They Make Me Run and Connection.

Whenever someone says that Mick Jagger doesn't need the other Stones, or that Charlie isn't that important, or that Keith or Ronnie aren't needed etc., I just remind them of the Jagger 88 Tour. It should have been great - Simon Phillips is a technically accomplished professional, and we all know that Satriani can play circles around Keith and Ronnie. And yet, the music is dull and uninvolving - clean and slick but somehow "wrong." That tour makes it clear that Mick needs the other Stones as much as they need him - and not just from a commercial standpoint, but from a musical one as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-21 10:22 by drbryant.

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drbryant
Whenever someone says that Mick Jagger doesn't need the other Stones, or that Charlie isn't that important, or that Keith or Ronnie aren't needed etc., I just remind them of the Jagger 88 Tour. It should have been great - Simon Phillips is a technically accomplished professional, and we all know that Satriani can play circles around Keith and Ronnie. And yet, the music is dull and uninvolving - clean and slick but somehow "wrong." That tour makes it clear that Mick needs the other Stones as much as they need him - and not just from a commercial standpoint, but from a musical one as well.

Yep, it's so evident.

However, people have different tastes, and some people actually prefer this to the Stones... Beats me, though

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Mathijs

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gotdablouse

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punkfloyd
Does anybody know the specific reason(s) Mick did not tour North America or Europe in 1988? Was it contractual to not tour (N. America) solo? Fear of weak ticket sales in America? Both?

I think in 1988 I was so desperate to see the Stones live I would have settled for a Jagger solo concert. I wonder if others here feel the same.

Good question, he was about to tour in late 87 (USA ?) before Jeff Beck slammed the door on him during rehearsals in London in August (if memory serves) for offering him peanuts to play. Why that delayed things so much, dunno...probably wanted to warm up in easier markets first...FF to the summer of 1988 when he met with Keith in NYC then to the RnR HOF induction, the Cohl offer, the "let's give it a shot at Eddie Grant's studio"...and the rest is history as they say. Something I didn't remember reading at the time was, according to Rocky Dijon, a rumour about a solo album with Satriani if the writing sessions with Keith had failed...to fulfil the 4 new record deal with CBS.

Not entirely correct -Jagger rehearsed and auditioned in February 1988. It is not entirely sure whether Jeff Beck walked out of the rehearsals, or that he didn't even start them. Jagger toured Japan and Australia, and planned to tour Indonesia as well. Indonesia was scrapped due to safety according to some, but the actual reason was money. Ticket prices simply where too high for Indonesia.

Mathijs

On 30-10-1988 October, Jagger did a show in Jakarta.