New year, same old whining on IORR.

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Max'sKansasCity
New year, same old whining on IORR.

It's not considered whining if served with a nice soft cheese.

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treaclefingers

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Max'sKansasCity
New year, same old whining on IORR.

It's not considered whining if served with a nice soft cheese.

Actually it is more so...

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-03 04:45 by Max'sKansasCity.

Even though we can see now that the SW tour was already part of this last-era big money Stones, at the time we didn't know this yet. All I remember feeling was elation that WW3 was over and they were back. I did not even know the term Vegas Stones yet. I am still in Undercover/Dirty Work gear; Keith as the real engine etc etc. Even Jagger's haircut had not sunk in yet.
And I'd venture to say that Jagger himself was just starting out on this new venture. He didn't know what would happen in next years; that stadium corporate rock would take over and rule. So while they had Matt Clifford, and Cindy and Lisa, and that humongous stage, on some level Jagger still had remnants of the old rock'n roll persona in him. So SW is the first of the stadium Stones, but at the time he still performed much of it in the old style.
By the time VL came around he had learned much about pacing himself, breathing, bad dancing, and he sang accordingly. Never too hard, never too high, sticking close to the album versions in order to deliver most bang for buck.
That's how I see it. "Coke" IMO doesn't have anything to do with it.
And I agree that B2B was the last great Stones album. By far the best since '86.
And I would not forget about "Stripped"; the little overlooked gem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-03 13:05 by Palace Revolution 2000.

I remember on the drive home from SW show at Shea Stadium one of our crew called the show something like the ice capades. Tough call cause they were much better the next night. Still a tough call which tour was worse SW or VL.

I will have to go back and listen, I remember being thrilled with the VL show I saw in Toronto. I thought the whole band sounded so much better than the two Steel Wheel shows I had seen. Better setlist and Darryl's basslines really driving songs. VL was the first time I heard a version of Street Fighting Man that bore any resemblance to the power on Get Your YaYas Out. But Mick specifically? I will have to go back and listen. I remember Memory Motel being a highlight in 1994, Mick literally singing in the rain in Toronto.

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Max'sKansasCity

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treaclefingers

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Max'sKansasCity
New year, same old whining on IORR.

It's not considered whining if served with a nice soft cheese.

Actually it is more so...

I prefer to think of it as an appetizer, unless it is an iced whine, in which case with cheese a lovely dessert.

I think he had to start learning how to "save his voice" around the time of VL. Yes he was doing that in '89, but he wasn't as old. Need to cut corners where you can. Singing and growling in full voice for two hours will mess us your pipes, unless you're young. He probably took the voice and wind-saving technique too far for VL and it shows. He learned to pace his dancing/running around better after that, resulting in more freedom to belt it out right. This year's show's are a good example of that!

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angee

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BlackHat

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jamesfdouglas
I'll chirp on the album itself. True, there are some songs I like on it, Thru and Thru, Moon is Up, Baby Break it Down. But the problem is, just over a year earlier, Jagger released THE BEST record he had sung on since Tattoo You, blowing away Undercover, She's the Boss, Dirty Work, Primitive Cool, and Steel Wheels OUT OF THE WATER.

No album that Jagger has sung on SINCE has even come close either.

This made the over-all album experience of Voodoo Lounge my single biggest LET DOWN in Stones history. The rest of the songs range from mediocre (Love is Stong, You Got Me Rocking, Out of Tears) to bloody AWFUL (Suck on the Jugular, Blinded by Rainbows, Brand New Car).

Plus it was 5 years, the longest wait ever... at the time... for a new Stones album. Back then in 1994, yes, a lot of us were already getting cynical at this band as the world of Real Rock Music moved on... without them, forever.

Certainly agree it doesn't stack well against Wandering Spirit (or even Main Offender). But I enjoyed it at the time and do so occasionally now.

Black Hat, did you enjoy the video for "Love is Strong"? I know I did.

I did enjoy the Love Is Strong video.

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SWAYZ
Mick lost a tremendous amount of power and range in the 4-5yrs between SW and VL tours. If you compare the warhorses from both tours, its no comparison how much better the sounded vocally in 89-90. It surprised me, because he sounded so good in '93 for the WS promo show he did. I thought VL tour was one of his worst vocal efforts. B2B,Licks,and the 2012 shows he sounded much better.

That's true. Probably due to age. He found a way of coping with it from the B2B-tour on, though.

As far as my recollection goes, I remember the guitars were very prominent during the
Voodoo Lounge Tour. And I liked that!

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

I was at Shea in 89 and remember getting bored in the middle of it. I saw 2 shows in 94, Giants stadium and Oakland Halloween, neither of them reallly moved me. Those stadium spectulars just don't do it for me. I tried once more for B2B and then gave up seeing them live in concert after that.

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coffeepotman
I was at Shea in 89 and remember getting bored in the middle of it. I saw 2 shows in 94, Giants stadium and Oakland Halloween, neither of them reallly moved me. Those stadium spectulars just don't do it for me. I tried once more for B2B and then gave up seeing them live in concert after that.

Too bad they took it to the arenas right after you gave up, then...

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DandelionPowderman

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coffeepotman
I was at Shea in 89 and remember getting bored in the middle of it. I saw 2 shows in 94, Giants stadium and Oakland Halloween, neither of them reallly moved me. Those stadium spectulars just don't do it for me. I tried once more for B2B and then gave up seeing them live in concert after that.

Too bad they took it to the arenas right after you gave up, then...

I definitely find it a function of how good your seats are. Much harder to feel 'connected' to the band when you're in the rafters.

As painful as it can be to shell out the big money for good tickets, it certainly is worth it if you really like the band you're going to see.

I saw 1 VL show, the Paris-under-a-pouring-rain show, and it was great. It was my second show, and it was much better than the 1990 show in Torino (my first show). In particular I liked the fact that Mick's singing was more straight-forward (without those annoying - to me - "embellishments" that infested his vocal performances during the UJ tour).

The PPV show is quite flat. But the Japanese VL DVD is absolutely brilliant. I have quite a few boots (mostly from the European leg) and Jagger sings fine on all of them.

As for VL the album, it probably is the Stones album I like less, but at least I can listen to it. Wondering Spirit I just can't stand it no more. Don't particularly like the songs (save Sweet thing), I don't like the playing, I absolutely hate the production. It's only merit is that it is way better than Primitive Cool.

C

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liddas
I saw 1 VL show, the Paris-under-a-pouring-rain show, and it was great. It was my second show, and it was much better than the 1990 show in Torino (my first show). In particular I liked the fact that Mick's singing was more straight-forward (without those annoying - to me - "embellishments" that infested his vocal performances during the UJ tour).

The PPV show is quite flat. But the Japanese VL DVD is absolutely brilliant. I have quite a few boots (mostly from the European leg) and Jagger sings fine on all of them.

As for VL the album, it probably is the Stones album I like less, but at least I can listen to it. Wondering Spirit I just can't stand it no more. Don't particularly like the songs (save Sweet thing), I don't like the playing, I absolutely hate the production. It's only merit is that it is way better than Primitive Cool.

C

LOL, yes the playing, especially the guitar, is very clipped on the whole album. With Jimmy Rip, and those session cats that is the word that always comes to my mind: 'clipped'. It's that next generation of studio cats that had enough savvy to not really want to BE a studio cat, and that had their R&R history down pat. Like the Dave Letterman Band e.g.
And you know - you are right about the production: there is not one stray overtone.
I myself do like most of the songs however.

Surprised by all the hate for the Voodoo Lounge album and tour here. I still regard it at as their best album since Tattoo You. And the live shows were highly regarded as an improvement over the Steel Wheels tour, which I think is true.

In my humble opininon, the modern era Stones, were never better as a live band than on the Voodoo tour. Those live recordings from 1995 appearing on Stripped and it's singles, are extremely inspired and raw. I have never heard better live recordings (during the modern era) of Live With Me, Gimme Shelter, Black Limousine, All Down The Line and Tumbling Dice, than on those releases.

I don't think the lack of a Voodoo tour live album is because of Jagger being bored. At the time they stated that they wanted to make a live album but with a different approach. And I think it worked. Stripped is still one of their best releases, and blows No Security, Live Licks and Shine A Light away.

I loved the album at the time and still really like it. Of all the modern-era Stones albums, that's the only one that really resonates of a time and place - Voodoo Lounge IS the summer of '94 for me.

Not really a fan of the tour, though. I dug the set lists (especially the inclusion of "Not Fade Away", "Monkey Man", "Rocks Off" and "All Down The Line") and didn't have a problem with Mick's singing... but the guitars, at least the night I saw this tour (Foxboro #1) were just weak. I think it was a combination of too low volume and too clean of a Fender sound - it just didn't carry, at least in a stadium setting. I wasn't impressed by the Miami PPV, either, but I do love Stripped and the live "All Down The Line" b-side is my favorite version of the song, ever.

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liddas
I saw 1 VL show, the Paris-under-a-pouring-rain show, and it was great. It was my second show, and it was much better than the 1990 show in Torino (my first show). In particular I liked the fact that Mick's singing was more straight-forward (without those annoying - to me - "embellishments" that infested his vocal performances during the UJ tour).



C

"The Storm at Longchamps"!! My first Stones' show!! I also remember his singing was great on that day!

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Blueranger
Surprised by all the hate for the Voodoo Lounge album and tour here.

surprised at your surprise. we are an equal-album-and-tour hating site. we do not discriminate along lineup, track-list, setlist or stage-design lines.

remember Ronnies song: we all get old.

Micks singing just is not what it used to be...

although the 5 shows, he was doing okay for a 70 year old, 69 year old man.

Just hoping to see them this year ina masterdam

jeroen

Based on the shows I went to, the bootlegs I have and the LP itself, the tour was way more sloppy compared to Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle (hell, the album was sloppier than Steel Wheels too!). Then again just about any tour is sloppy compared to those perfect-by-the-numbers tours. I think they were fine overall. Mick was singing similar to the 1975-76 tours and perhaps at times the 1981-82 tours.

Not Fade Away, Tumbling Dice, Shattered, Out Of Tears, The Worst, Monkey Man, Street Fighting Man, It's All Over Now (sans Keith's solos), I Go Wild and hilariously now, Sparks Will Fly and You Got Me Rocking (the No Security Bridges tour version is much better) were pretty damn good. I think at the time, the new material worked live, even those last two seemed to blend in well with the songs. I know song wise they are not snuffed up enough by any means but then they were at least played. The usual tracks were just plain boring.

Compared to the Bridges tour, sure, that tour was more focused and better performances all the way around, as was Licks. As sloppy as the Voodoo tour was it seems that they were relaxed that time - they knew the money was there, they dressed a million times better than the previous tour (ha ha) and the new songs fit in well (no matter what Love Is Strong should've never been played - ever).

I liked the album and tour. "It's All Over Now" was among many rarely heard songs played.

After not having played VL in a long while, I recently got the 1971-2005 vinyl box. The LP side configuration of VL is as follows:

Side 1
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly

Side 2
The Worst
New Faces
Moon Is Up
Out of Tears

Side 3
I Go Wild
Brand New Car
Sweethearts Together
Suck on the Jugular

Side 4
Blinded by Rainbows
Baby Break It Down
Thru and Thru
Mean Disposition (box set version only, not on the original vinyl)

Breaking it down into LP sides reveals the lack of enduring songs. Side 3 may be the worst LP side of Stones ever.

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Blueranger
Surprised by all the hate for the Voodoo Lounge album and tour here. I still regard it at as their best album since Tattoo You. And the live shows were highly regarded as an improvement over the Steel Wheels tour, which I think is true.

In my humble opininon, the modern era Stones, were never better as a live band than on the Voodoo tour. Those live recordings from 1995 appearing on Stripped and it's singles, are extremely inspired and raw. I have never heard better live recordings (during the modern era) of Live With Me, Gimme Shelter, Black Limousine, All Down The Line and Tumbling Dice, than on those releases.

I don't think the lack of a Voodoo tour live album is because of Jagger being bored. At the time they stated that they wanted to make a live album but with a different approach. And I think it worked. Stripped is still one of their best releases, and blows No Security, Live Licks and Shine A Light away.

I am also surprised. The Stones are a guitar band and the guitars were great on this tour... and so was Charlie. I always thought this was the last truely great version of the band and that the very slow aging/slowing down/decline started after this tour. Honestly, my three favorite versions of the band were 72, 78, and 94/95. The Stripped DVD is one of my favorites... they are playing great. Listen to Street Fighting Man on it. I know I am going to take some heat for this comment, but I think Ronnie plays better on the Stripped version of the song Shine a Light than the original with Mick Taylor! But it is 100% correct, Stripped and their live play at that time is so far ahead of the albums No Security, Live Licks, and Shine A Light. I don't see it being even remotely close. The divide blows my mind its so large!

"You'll be studying history and you'll be down the gym. And I'll be down the pub, probably playing pool and drinking."

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ab
After not having played VL in a long while, I recently got the 1971-2005 vinyl box. The LP side configuration of VL is as follows:

Side 1
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly

Side 2
The Worst
New Faces
Moon Is Up
Out of Tears

Side 3
I Go Wild
Brand New Car
Sweethearts Together
Suck on the Jugular

Side 4
Blinded by Rainbows
Baby Break It Down
Thru and Thru
Mean Disposition (box set version only, not on the original vinyl)

Breaking it down into LP sides reveals the lack of enduring songs. Side 3 may be the worst LP side of Stones ever.

I think the VL tour was awesome -Of course Jagger had to alter voice to meet the sound of the basis of the tour itself. Beast of Burden (not realted to album) was my favorite version of all tours! I go Wild is a good example of how that sound had to meet the sound at that time in 1994.

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ab
After not having played VL in a long while, I recently got the 1971-2005 vinyl box. The LP side configuration of VL is as follows:

Side 1
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly

Side 2
The Worst
New Faces
Moon Is Up
Out of Tears

Side 3
I Go Wild
Brand New Car
Sweethearts Together
Suck on the Jugular

Side 4
Blinded by Rainbows
Baby Break It Down
Thru and Thru
Mean Disposition (box set version only, not on the original vinyl)

Breaking it down into LP sides reveals the lack of enduring songs. Side 3 may be the worst LP side of Stones ever.

Did the box set really have Mean Disposition on LP? I was told it didn't.

Voodoo Lounge is in my opinion a very good album
Great songs but also some fillers, great video clips for the singles, great tour (1st time I saw them in a small venue)

I do agree that MJ's vocals might not have been good at the beginning of the tour, but Matt Clifford's departure and the presence of only 1 keyboard makes this tour more "rock" than SW/UJ

[doctorstonesblog.blogspot.com]

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Doc

Matt Clifford's departure and the presence of only 1 keyboard makes this tour more "rock" than SW/UJ

You have a point but imo they were rocking harder in 89/90. Compare say the Jap'90 perfs to the one in the US in 1994 : things severely slooooooowed down in 4 years.