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Justin

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stonehearted
How do you do that? You tune the E string down to D, place your fingers there, and pull them off quickly, that’s very good. Keith, perhaps you should see this. And before long, the Rolling Stones were collecting royalties for “Honky Tonk Women,”

Wow, so what exactly is Ry Cooder implying...that he invented the open G tuning? He's very conveniently skipping a whole chunk of the story just to imply that they stole the song off him. And the argument that no other song sounds like HTW is proof that they never wrote it is stupid. "Gimme Shelter" or "Paint It Black" don't sound like any other song in their catalog..so..did they not write those either?

No, he doesn't claim to have invented the open G tuning, but that he adopted it from John Lee Hooker and passed it on to Keith when teaching him to play slide. Here's another excerpt from another source:

At 18, Ry Cooder was a studio musician, recording with groups as disparate as Captain Beefheart's Magic Band, Paul Revere and the Raiders, Little Feat [that's his slide on "Willin' "] and the Rolling Stones. He taught Keith Richards to play slide, and the open G tuning favored by John Lee Hooker. Richards once said, "I took Ry Cooder for everything I could get," a compliment that may explain the fact that the money lick in "Honky Tonk Women" is pure Cooder-by-way-of-Hooker.
Cooder's first solo album came out in 1970, and by mid-decade he was ready to begin what he calls "a method, chemically trying to jam these things together. Today, I look back and I can't believe I did that. I got better at doing it."

Taken from: www.alternatemusicpress.com/features/ry.html

Cooder's long-standing dispute is that he claims to have come up with the main riff for Honky Tonk Women, but that he never received due credit.

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Munichhilton

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Justin

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stonehearted
How do you do that? You tune the E string down to D, place your fingers there, and pull them off quickly, that’s very good. Keith, perhaps you should see this. And before long, the Rolling Stones were collecting royalties for “Honky Tonk Women,”

Wow, so what exactly is Ry Cooder implying...that he invented the open G tuning? He's very conveniently skipping a whole chunk of the story just to imply that they stole the song off him. And the argument that no other song sounds like HTW is proof that they never wrote it is stupid. "Gimme Shelter" or "Paint It Black" don't sound like any other song in their catalog..so..did they not write those either?

Depending on the interview and how they choose to present it they can make Ry look like a very bitter guy. I can't imagine he would claim ownership of Open anything...the tunings have been around forever...He can hang his hat on the fact that he taught KR the tuning if true...but he never wrote Tumbling Dice or Can't You Hear Me Knocking. Ry does great work with John Hiatt that I love but I have never liked solo Ry. He's missing several elements of the soup.

Beyond turning Keith on to open G tuning and the use of a capo to easily adjust to different keys he also taught him to eliminate the low string making the root note appear on the top, a neat trick. Did Ry write HT's riff? I suppose that riff is a natural result of fooling with the tuning so perhaps. The Stones wouldn't hire a musician who had no ideas and nothing to contribute, Ry's getting paid as a session guy to be great because he is great, anything beyond that is hindsight and at discretion of the artist paying the musicians.

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Justin

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stonehearted
How do you do that? You tune the E string down to D, place your fingers there, and pull them off quickly, that’s very good. Keith, perhaps you should see this. And before long, the Rolling Stones were collecting royalties for “Honky Tonk Women,”

Wow, so what exactly is Ry Cooder implying...that he invented the open G tuning? He's very conveniently skipping a whole chunk of the story just to imply that they stole the song off him. And the argument that no other song sounds like HTW is proof that they never wrote it is stupid. "Gimme Shelter" or "Paint It Black" don't sound like any other song in their catalog..so..did they not write those either?

You know that Ry Cooder doesnt claim that. Keith says he took Ry for all he had. See the threads about Cooder and Stones please.

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DoomandGloom

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Munichhilton

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Justin

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stonehearted
How do you do that? You tune the E string down to D, place your fingers there, and pull them off quickly, that’s very good. Keith, perhaps you should see this. And before long, the Rolling Stones were collecting royalties for “Honky Tonk Women,”

Wow, so what exactly is Ry Cooder implying...that he invented the open G tuning? He's very conveniently skipping a whole chunk of the story just to imply that they stole the song off him. And the argument that no other song sounds like HTW is proof that they never wrote it is stupid. "Gimme Shelter" or "Paint It Black" don't sound like any other song in their catalog..so..did they not write those either?

Depending on the interview and how they choose to present it they can make Ry look like a very bitter guy. I can't imagine he would claim ownership of Open anything...the tunings have been around forever...He can hang his hat on the fact that he taught KR the tuning if true...but he never wrote Tumbling Dice or Can't You Hear Me Knocking. Ry does great work with John Hiatt that I love but I have never liked solo Ry. He's missing several elements of the soup.

Beyond turning Keith on to open G tuning and the use of a capo to easily adjust to different keys he also taught him to eliminate the low string making the root note appear on the top, a neat trick. Did Ry write HT's riff? I suppose that riff is a natural result of fooling with the tuning so perhaps. The Stones wouldn't hire a musician who had no ideas and nothing to contribute, Ry's getting paid as a session guy to be great because he is great, anything beyond that is hindsight and at discretion of the artist paying the musicians.

And all that funky riffing obviously came from Ry. Use a few strings a play your riff or lick and sort of muff the strings with your hand or just pick. Monkey Man is an example of this.

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Justin

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stonehearted
How do you do that? You tune the E string down to D, place your fingers there, and pull them off quickly, that’s very good. Keith, perhaps you should see this. And before long, the Rolling Stones were collecting royalties for “Honky Tonk Women,”

Wow, so what exactly is Ry Cooder implying...that he invented the open G tuning? He's very conveniently skipping a whole chunk of the story just to imply that they stole the song off him. And the argument that no other song sounds like HTW is proof that they never wrote it is stupid. "Gimme Shelter" or "Paint It Black" don't sound like any other song in their catalog..so..did they not write those either?

And no other Ry Cooler song sounds like HTW.
I was watching a documentary on Simon and Garfunkel last night - about the recording of 'Bridge Over...'
And Paul was talking about how he had been listing to a gospel group every night. He would put it on every single night...and took the same chord progressions and turned it into a song. That's what all musicians, songwriters do.
Ry Cooder is a great slide guitarist and loved his Ravine cd a few years ago, but he comes across as jealous - he may be respected as a musician, but he never attained the level of popularity he may have wanted.

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stupidguy2

Ry Cooder.....comes across as jealous

This is a misunderstanding. See other threads about Ry and the Stones. The story is not just about HTW it's that era, his style, licks etc. My theory: they "paid" him with musician credits on Love in vain and Sister Morphine. Keeping him on guitar for Rambler, Monkey Man, HTW, Live with me etc is probably something Mick would have been fine with, Keith's the one who was jelous of Cooder. Keith recorded him and obviously used the material after getting rid of him.

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DoomandGloom
John also blamed The Allmans for lifting One Way Out from I Feel Fine. These were interesting years for Lennon not having people to help edit his flippancy.

In The Beatles Anthology book, George Harrison says about I FEEL FINE: "The guitar riff was actually influenced by a record called WATCH YOUR STEP by Bobby Parker."

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Redhotcarpet

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Justin

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stonehearted
How do you do that? You tune the E string down to D, place your fingers there, and pull them off quickly, that’s very good. Keith, perhaps you should see this. And before long, the Rolling Stones were collecting royalties for “Honky Tonk Women,”

Wow, so what exactly is Ry Cooder implying...that he invented the open G tuning? He's very conveniently skipping a whole chunk of the story just to imply that they stole the song off him. And the argument that no other song sounds like HTW is proof that they never wrote it is stupid. "Gimme Shelter" or "Paint It Black" don't sound like any other song in their catalog..so..did they not write those either?

You know that Ry Cooder doesnt claim that. Keith says he took Ry for all he had. See the threads about Cooder and Stones please.

Yes, and the quote is from Alec Wilkinson, who wrote the New Yorker piece, not Ry Cooder.

Drew

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stonehearted

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6853

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stonehearted

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6853
why is it noone quotes my intelligent post

We were waiting for you to notice. Very intelligent observation, though, in pointing out that the song is both uptempo and in minor key. Most people don't think of it like that and wouldn't notice anyway--unless they were musicians.

Thanks Stonehearted, thanks for your intelligent remark () I have to ask : is it possible that peple can TALK about music, withhout talking about the MUSIC ?

Wow, 6853, you've practically presented a Zen koan that I could take hours, or even years, attempting to answer. I guess I'll venture and say that talk is talk, but music says it all, really....more than mere words ever could.

my fellowcountrymen are famous for arguing, for "debtness" i guess, In other words we are boring..

Miss You, as much as it is dreaded live today, was a perfect song for the late 70s stones: it fit Jagger's persona at the time (indeed lets his personality jump
Out at you from the speakers) while also sitting firmly on top of the Richards/wyman/watts rhythm section that insinuates its way into your heart and brain. The boys could still write great (good) songs, make us dance, and top the charts. No mean feat! Recording this song risked so much - alienating their existing fans and falling flat with the new generation - and it paid off. Put it on and dance!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-30 13:31 by Turner68.

Their best single since the 60s. Maybe with the exception of BS, imo.

Its a good track on a great album, but it has no place being played on fantastic tours for 37 years when there are so many other brilliant songs that deserve a chance to be played live. imho
Please Mick, Chuck, can you play something else in its place, like Let It Loose, (yes i have played it many times in the last few days and really love it now ) anything but Miss You

LOVE the studio track, just love it. Live, it's never, just never ever hit the heights.

Rod

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howled
Maybe John has his songs mixed up (Well, he did write a lot of them).

Maybe he meant "Scared" instead of "Bless You".

There is some similarity in the feel and maybe some chords between "Scared" and "Miss You".

The ending guitar solo does sound sort of similar to the "Miss You" melody.

This might be the lick that Lennon was talking about.

I hear absolutely nothing that sounds like Miss You at all in either Lennon song. It doesn't even sound sort of similar, that guitar - or the humming. It's got the same similarness as a coconut has to a skyscraper.

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6853
why is it noone quotes my intelligent post

Noone? What the hell is a noone?

The only influence those Lennon songs could possibly have is to make someone turn them off.

For some reason I prefer the UK edit instead of the LP version (used for the US single). Nothing against Mel Collins, it's just more interesting. Possibly because I had never heard it until 1993 when JUMP BACK came out and again on FORTY LICKS.

I didn't get the monkey album. What version is on that?

Great studio track! I really enjoy the three versions I know of. I have yet to hear even a decent live version though!

I liked the studio track when I was younger and it was newer to me- did not become a 'go-to' song, but if in a long mix, okay...
I saw it 'live' for the first time San Diego Zipcode '15 from 13th row.
As a girl that's been in love with Mick Jagger for a very long time...
*whew* did I enjoy this performance. He is most sexy here.
When he sang 'low down NASTY time, just like we used to'
which I was not expecting,
Well well well.
(And that's why they keep it in the show.)
Oh yeah, and the guitars are good too, LOL.

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DandelionPowderman
Their best single since the 60s. Maybe with the exception of BS, imo.

Dandie, I really love you, but here I completely lose you.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
Their best single since the 60s. Maybe with the exception of BS, imo.

Dandie, I really love you, but here I completely lose you.

The function of a single is to promote an album, right? Did or did not Miss You succeed in doing so - even more so than its predecessors (maybe except for BS)?

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DandelionPowderman

The function of a single is to promote an album, right? Did or did not Miss You succeed in doing so - even more so than its predecessors (maybe except for BS)?

All their UK singles up to and including 1969 say no.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman

The function of a single is to promote an album, right? Did or did not Miss You succeed in doing so - even more so than its predecessors (maybe except for BS)?

All their UK singles up to and including 1969 say no.

But I didn't mention them here

You did, a few posts up.

...

Miss You, for me, is like Fool to Cry. I feel like I shouldn't like it, but I do.

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His Majesty
You did, a few posts up.

...

Miss You, for me, is like Fool to Cry. I feel like I shouldn't like it, but I do.

Best single «since the 60s», I said. And it was.

The reason why you like it says a lot about why it is so brilliant.

Yeah, there's a lot to the track and it's catchy catchy. I'll bet even the most ardent hater of Miss You ends up tapping their foot to it and/or having the harmonica/vocal motif stuck in their head.

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty
You did, a few posts up.

...

Miss You, for me, is like Fool to Cry. I feel like I shouldn't like it, but I do.

Best single «since the 60s», I said. And it was.

The reason why you like it says a lot about why it is so brilliant.

But you are not clear Dandie. Do you mean best sold single or best single in terms of musical quality or both?

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty
You did, a few posts up.

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Miss You, for me, is like Fool to Cry. I feel like I shouldn't like it, but I do.

Best single «since the 60s», I said. And it was.

The reason why you like it says a lot about why it is so brilliant.

But you are not clear Dandie. Do you mean best sold single or best single in terms of musical quality or both?

I am kleer. I said «the best single», not the best song

Yes, single implies something that was released on its own. Gimme shelter - not a single. Rock in a hard place=a single. Go figure :-)

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty
You did, a few posts up.

...

Miss You, for me, is like Fool to Cry. I feel like I shouldn't like it, but I do.

Best single «since the 60s», I said. And it was.

The reason why you like it says a lot about why it is so brilliant.

But you are not clear Dandie. Do you mean best sold single or best single in terms of musical quality or both?

I am kleer. I said «the best single», not the best song

Except for Beast of Burden, Brown Sugar, Angie, It's Only Rock and Roll, Tumbling Dice, Wild Horses....... I actually like the song much more than I like what represented for Stones music...the end of the golden rock period.