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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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Silver Dagger
It is more of a lament than a ballad.

It doesn't try to be sacharrine, schmaltzy or even a chart-topping hit. It is a plaintive lament, pure and simple. Ballads are usually more up tempo and narrative in informing the listener of an event. This is, in the words of Mick at Knebworth, "a sad, sad song." Written straight from the heart as a carthartic release.

Mick called Angie and YCAGWYW also sad songs. The latter doesn't 'deserve' that qualification. Because of the but if..

yeah, but what if you don't? hmmm? pretty sad, then, right? see? don't assume...

Mick assures us that we will succeed then. Don't you believe him? Or is getting what you need not enough for you?

you don't understand!!! what if we don't fukking try sometime??? what then? are we doomed to fukking misery then????

If we don't try it's our own fault and not sad. Just lazyness.

don't presume! we might have other things to do. it's not always about trying sometimes. i can't believe how narrow-minded some folks are.

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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Silver Dagger
It is more of a lament than a ballad.

It doesn't try to be sacharrine, schmaltzy or even a chart-topping hit. It is a plaintive lament, pure and simple. Ballads are usually more up tempo and narrative in informing the listener of an event. This is, in the words of Mick at Knebworth, "a sad, sad song." Written straight from the heart as a carthartic release.

Mick called Angie and YCAGWYW also sad songs. The latter doesn't 'deserve' that qualification. Because of the but if..

yeah, but what if you don't? hmmm? pretty sad, then, right? see? don't assume...

Mick assures us that we will succeed then. Don't you believe him? Or is getting what you need not enough for you?

you don't understand!!! what if we don't fukking try sometime??? what then? are we doomed to fukking misery then????

If we don't try it's our own fault and not sad. Just lazyness.

don't presume! we might have other things to do. it's not always about trying sometimes. i can't believe how narrow-minded some folks are.

you're just not trying hard enough.

Did someone mention here that Keith plays the lead guitar, is that true. I always thought it was Taylor playing electric and nashville acoustic as well and KR playing regular acoustic but i dunno. Like many great songs from he era that are supposedly about women, WH is a love song to heroin.

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DoomandGloom
Did someone mention here that Keith plays the lead guitar, is that true. I always thought it was Taylor playing electric and nashville acoustic as well and KR playing regular acoustic but i dunno. Like many great songs from he era that are supposedly about women, WH is a love song to heroin.

Taylor plays the Nashville-strum guitar. Keith is playing the 12-string acoustic + the electric solo guitar. The phrasing is very simple, albeit not trade mark Keith.

<Why Has "Wild Horses" Endured where other older ballads sound dated?>

WH is probably one of the best ballads ever written. There is drama, tension, sweetness, highs and lows as well as a fantastic chorus in there. That's why it still holds up, imo.

PS: And the renditions from London were among the best they ever delivered - simply stunning!

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DandelionPowderman

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DoomandGloom
Did someone mention here that Keith plays the lead guitar, is that true. I always thought it was Taylor playing electric and nashville acoustic as well and KR playing regular acoustic but i dunno. Like many great songs from he era that are supposedly about women, WH is a love song to heroin.

Taylor plays the Nashville-strum guitar. Keith is playing the 12-string acoustic + the electric solo guitar. The phrasing is very simple, albeit not trade mark Keith.

Wow I've been wrong for 30 years...Does anyone know what guitar he used? I bet it took Keith a couple of nights to assemble this but the proof is in the result, years before Dicky Betts' "Melissa", Keith did it better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-28 10:57 by DoomandGloom.

The bridge or solo is not good, it's an easy solution. Why do I prefer other Stones "ballads"? Because they're never really ballads and they always have blues or country.

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Redhotcarpet
The bridge or solo is not good, it's an easy solution. Why do I prefer other Stones "ballads"? Because they're never really ballads and they always have blues or country.

It's an institution!

Doesn't WH have country, btw?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-28 14:48 by DandelionPowderman.

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Redhotcarpet
The bridge or solo is not good, it's an easy solution. Why do I prefer other Stones "ballads"? Because they're never really ballads and they always have blues or country.

I think it's a fantastic solo - beautiful and evocative; one of Keith's best.

I think that by Angie (definitely by Fool to Cry) Mick was singing ballads in an odd way. Not sure if he was camping it up but he sang in a sort of exaggerated way that made you think that he was not taking it seriously. Sort of singing with a wink!

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Braincapers
I think that by Angie (definitely by Fool to Cry) Mick was singing ballads in an odd way. Not sure if he was camping it up but he sang in a sort of exaggerated way that made you think that he was not taking it seriously. Sort of singing with a wink!

Yeah but that's the Stones. Wild Horses is trying to be something else and while i hear greatness in it Im not moved at all. I think Wild horses old cousin is Lady Jane (sorry!) more than...Winter, Angie or Memory Motel. Moonlight mile is a masterpiece, it's moving without trying. Wild horses makes Jagger sound weak and that's just not him. Let it loose, shine a light, now that's something. The pathos in Wild Horses doesnt ring true possibly because it actually is true feeling (about Marianne) and that doesnt sound true in Jagger's mouth. Am I making any sense?

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drbryant

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Redhotcarpet
The bridge or solo is not good, it's an easy solution. Why do I prefer other Stones "ballads"? Because they're never really ballads and they always have blues or country.

I think it's a fantastic solo - beautiful and evocative; one of Keith's best.

Ok the solo is not bad but the chord "trick" is too easy (taking it up a notch).

I dont know how Doxa feels about wild horses but this is a typical Doxa-thread, we need some input!

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drbryant

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Redhotcarpet
The bridge or solo is not good, it's an easy solution. Why do I prefer other Stones "ballads"? Because they're never really ballads and they always have blues or country.

I think it's a fantastic solo - beautiful and evocative; one of Keith's best.

of course it is !

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor plays the Nashville-strum guitar. Keith is playing the 12-string acoustic + the electric solo guitar. The phrasing is very simple, albeit not trade mark Keith.

and again - of course it is ! -it was his style then in that period
along with his work leading up to it, for example , gimme shelter , loving cup orginal , leather jacket , the sympathy solo on yayas ,his fills on dead flowers then short and curlies etc ,and probably more or less finishing with fool to cry , another highlight of improvisation .

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straycatblues73

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drbryant

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Redhotcarpet
The bridge or solo is not good, it's an easy solution. Why do I prefer other Stones "ballads"? Because they're never really ballads and they always have blues or country.

I think it's a fantastic solo - beautiful and evocative; one of Keith's best.

of course it is !

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DandelionPowderman


Taylor plays the Nashville-strum guitar. Keith is playing the 12-string acoustic + the electric solo guitar. The phrasing is very simple, albeit not trade mark Keith.

and again - of course it is ! -it was his style then in that period
along with his work leading up to it, for example , gimme shelter , loving cup orginal , leather jacket , the sympathy solo on yayas ,his fills on dead flowers then short and curlies etc ,and probably more or less finishing with fool to cry , another highlight of improvisation .

And why are they similar to WH?

IMO, there is something special to Keith's WH-solo, not to be found in the other songs you mention (all great, btw).

His use of the major pentatonic scale is very different, and his sound is different, almost too low on treble. Love it!

I think songs like Angie, Fool To Cry and Memory Motel came about in kind of a calculated way. Commerical Success was part of the inspiration for coming up with those ballads, even if it didn't end up being a hit. And they were a throw back to the 60's ballads like As Tears Go By or Ruby Tuesday which were done with the same goal in mind. All that stuff is still great, there was just a real commerical/pop element with them. Wild Horses is different. It was just meant to be a country tune. In the same sprit as Dead Flowers, Torn and Frayed or Sweet Virginia, only slowed down.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-28 20:32 by ryanpow.

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Braincapers
I think that by Angie (definitely by Fool to Cry) Mick was singing ballads in an odd way. Not sure if he was camping it up but he sang in a sort of exaggerated way that made you think that he was not taking it seriously. Sort of singing with a wink!

Yeah but that's the Stones. Wild Horses is trying to be something else and while i hear greatness in it Im not moved at all. I think Wild horses old cousin is Lady Jane (sorry!) more than...Winter, Angie or Memory Motel. Moonlight mile is a masterpiece, it's moving without trying. Wild horses makes Jagger sound weak and that's just not him. Let it loose, shine a light, now that's something. The pathos in Wild Horses doesnt ring true possibly because it actually is true feeling (about Marianne) and that doesnt sound true in Jagger's mouth. Am I making any sense?

no, but please proceed. it's kinda fun to see you try to make sense...

OK so maybe it's this: Wild Horses is a ballad and it doesnt have that black/afro feel that is typical for Jagger. It's too "white".

Gramm Parsons recorded the song too. He was likely an influence, it's a country rock song like Sweet Virginia, Far Away Eyes et et.. The Stones do Rubber Soul with the best of em'..

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DoomandGloom
Gramm Parsons recorded the song too. He was likely an influence, it's a country rock song like Sweet Virginia, Far Away Eyes et et.. The Stones do Rubber Soul with the best of em'..

Rubber Soul also has a great ballad that people still cover today - "In My Life". Unfortunately, it also has "Michelle (ma belle)", a ballad which no one would sing today.

I watch VH 1 every morning.. Someone could cover "Michelle" with that computer voice maybe..

Unfortunately, it also has "Michelle (ma belle)", a ballad which no one would sing today.

... a jerky guy from the FBI claims Obama often sings it in the shower



ROCKMAN

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StonesTod

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Redhotcarpet

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Braincapers
I think that by Angie (definitely by Fool to Cry) Mick was singing ballads in an odd way. Not sure if he was camping it up but he sang in a sort of exaggerated way that made you think that he was not taking it seriously. Sort of singing with a wink!

Yeah but that's the Stones. Wild Horses is trying to be something else and while i hear greatness in it Im not moved at all. I think Wild horses old cousin is Lady Jane (sorry!) more than...Winter, Angie or Memory Motel. Moonlight mile is a masterpiece, it's moving without trying. Wild horses makes Jagger sound weak and that's just not him. Let it loose, shine a light, now that's something. The pathos in Wild Horses doesnt ring true possibly because it actually is true feeling (about Marianne) and that doesnt sound true in Jagger's mouth. Am I making any sense?

no, but please proceed. it's kinda fun to see you try to make sense...

I'd like to know more about the pathos in Jaggers mouth. Is it that he doesn't floss?

Wild Horses is just a timeless song. Everything has been said in all of these posts. One of the most underated parts of the song to me anyways is Charlie's drumming. The drumming at the end of the song after the guitar break I have always found very powerful. I love this song.

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Silver Dagger
It is more of a lament than a ballad.

It doesn't try to be sacharrine, schmaltzy or even a chart-topping hit. It is a plaintive lament, pure and simple. Ballads are usually more up tempo and narrative in informing the listener of an event. This is, in the words of Mick at Knebworth, "a sad, sad song." Written straight from the heart as a carthartic release.

There's an official video release from 2009.

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DoomandGloom
Gram Parsons recorded the song too. He was likely an influence, it's a country rock song like Sweet Virginia, Far Away Eyes et et.. The Stones do Rubber Soul with the best of em'..

The album "Burrito Deluxe" by Flying Burrito Brothers has the first official release of Wild Horses on it. Quite different feeling from the Stones version that will be released the next year.
The Burrito version has a nice piano touch by Leon Russell...

I don't know how this one can be interpreted as "a love song to heroin" - would DoomandGloom like to go into more detail? I'm happy to agree that a lot of Stones songs are at least as much about a drug as they are about a woman, but this doesn't strike me as one of them. I wouldn't take too much notice of Mick when he says it wasn't about Marianne - Mick will never talk freely in an interview about the meaning of his song lyrics, especially when it gets as personal as this.

Why doesn't it sound dated? I'm not very good at identifying "dated" (probably because of being a bit dated myself), but:

1 The country-ish feel puts it in a genre whose sound hasn't changed as much over the years as mainstream rock or pop
2 It was written about a situation personal to its original singer, and not as a cliched love-ballad that anybody could sing. Yes, I know that's how it has turned out, but it wasn't written with one eye on the cover-potential. Stones songs, except in the very early days, aren't written for other people to cover.
3 Like all Stones songs, it is refreshingly free from schmaltz and sentimentality.

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Green Lady
3 Like all Stones songs, it is refreshingly free from schmaltz and sentimentality.

would someone please introduce this lady to streets of love? thanks....

On the O2 version, I missed Keith's 12-string from the Bigger Bang Tour. Live the sound of that guitar on the intro.

Keith's electric solo was always a mystery to me as I learned about ten years ago on another stones forum that it was Keith and not MT.If you listen to the wild horses outtakes keith's solos are so bad that you wonder how the hell did it finally cut a clean electric solo.The solo is outside the penatonic box that's Keith's comfort zone.

play the guitar boy