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DandelionPowderman
I think there are a few misunderstandings here
- Yes, Taylor mainly sticks to the pentatonic scale, be it in major or minor, or he is mixing those in one solo, which is very common for any guitarist.
- The above is NOT a bad thing. My guess is that Mathijs was referring to Dead Flowers on L&G as an example of how this can be done in a rather uninspired way - to illustrate that Taylor's playing on the last Stones tours at times sounded as he was bored (something he has confirmed himself).
- Ronnie Wood has never "tried" to copy Taylor's solos. He pays homeage to Taylor, where the parts of his solos are essential to the songs (All Down The Line, CYHMK, Fingerprint File's bass etc). Other times, when the solos can be improved (there are a few), f.i. on If You Can't Rock Me, Happy, Tumblin' Dice and others - the solos are totally different. The "copying" is misunderstood.
- AND: If you have played guitar a few years, you'll find that it's not hard, not at all, to play what Taylor plays. However, it's very hard to play it as beautiful as he did when he was on top of his game (Ya Ya's: SCB, SFTD).
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lapaz62Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think there are a few misunderstandings here
- Yes, Taylor mainly sticks to the pentatonic scale, be it in major or minor, or he is mixing those in one solo, which is very common for any guitarist.
- The above is NOT a bad thing. My guess is that Mathijs was referring to Dead Flowers on L&G as an example of how this can be done in a rather uninspired way - to illustrate that Taylor's playing on the last Stones tours at times sounded as he was bored (something he has confirmed himself).
- Ronnie Wood has never "tried" to copy Taylor's solos. He pays homeage to Taylor, where the parts of his solos are essential to the songs (All Down The Line, CYHMK, Fingerprint File's bass etc). Other times, when the solos can be improved (there are a few), f.i. on If You Can't Rock Me, Happy, Tumblin' Dice and others - the solos are totally different. The "copying" is misunderstood.
- AND: If you have played guitar a few years, you'll find that it's not hard, not at all, to play what Taylor plays. However, it's very hard to play it as beautiful as he did when he was on top of his game (Ya Ya's: SCB, SFTD).
This song has uninspired playing, your crazy, Taylor is fantastic on this one.
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VT22
Maybe a nice and basic hint for rock/blues guitarists here: A major scale basically contains 3 pentatonic scales -import the blue notes if you want, and 7 chords. Major pentatonic scales are most effective/common when chord related, like in country music orbluesfolk. Sort this out if you haven't yet. You might notice a huge difference when listening to Taylor, Wood, or Jeff Beck etc then.
In the end music and playing the guitar is all about taste and fun of course, but reading these harmonically illiterate and stale posts coming from people like Mathijs and his musical lawyer- not on this thread only- makes me laugh, or cry if you want.
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Mathijs
Why aren't people allowed to have an opinion? You find Taylor a demigod, I find Taylor a decent guitarist in the studio, and a fantastic lead guitarist in 72/73. You find the Dead Flowers solo utterly great, while I find the first half having some nice country bends, and the second half annoying pentatonic noodling, the same as he did many times on Tumbling Dice and what made Keith shout 'stop @#$%& around' on L&G. You find it very difficult to play like Taylor, I find it quite easy as Taylor plays pentatonic scales 98% of the time, which doesn't require much technical abilities. Of course, Taylor has a fantastic melodic sense that not many guitarists/musicians have, and what made him unique with the Stones.
Mathijs
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sanQ
I call bullshit on what you just said. Show me what pentatonic scale he's playing! I know the pentatonic scales and I can play them up and down the neck off by heart, behind my back, under my legs, and he's not playing it according to what you are saying. I would love for you to show me an example of your playing what you call easy Mick Taylor pentatonic scales. As someone who is honest and can actually play this, I would love to see you back up what you are saying! You can't because what you are saying is ridiculous and preposterous. You are seriously telling me that "He is playing pentatonic scales but he is also fantastically melodic." If he is playing so fantastically melodic, then he is not playing strictly in the pentatonic scale. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
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DoomandGloom
Yes Mathijs is entitled to an opinion but trashing Taylor every time he's mentioned while claiming otherwise deserves a steady barrage
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Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
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Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
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Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic scale contains a G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
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Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic scale contains a G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Nope, Taylor doesn't play a G# (nor a F#) anywhere, making it plain natural minor over A.
Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
Mathijs
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Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic scale contains a G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Nope, Taylor doesn't play a G# (nor a F#) anywhere, making it plain natural minor over A.
Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
Mathijs
Rubbish again: You're completely off the rails, from a harmonical point of view. A wiki site is not enough:
Then it's just an A diatonic Aeolian mode, which is part of the TWFNO-key.. A descending minor melodic scale never comes alone, neither in classical nor in jazz harmony, so minor melodic has nothing to do with it, as there is always a G# dim chord involved appearing on the guide tone of that scale, a basic harmonic rule. This is not the case in TWFNO. MT's improvisation is played over F(maj7) C (maj7), which proves it must be either a C ionian scale or F Lydian, as I pointed out earlier. It's called a chord scale. If I remember it well - I have to give it a listen, Taylor sometimes makes a G G# A slide, but if not, that's even more proove that I am right.
Actually any 15 year old music school pupil could tell you that.
Another one for free.