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LuxuryStones

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GasLightStreet

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LuxuryStones
If you only judge it by ear then your guess is as good as mine.

Taylor being pissed cause they choose the version with Sonny Rollins? Seems unlikely to me - Taylor most likely would have sent a postcard to Sonny: "Great job, man".

Remains the rhythm guitar.

So you think it's Taylor on guitar. And that's it. No Keith.

I don't know, I never said it's not Keith. Not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor. All the other stories, Sonny Rollins, Taylor being pissed, assuming it must be Keith bring us nowhere. I do hear shades of Taylor in it though. The strumming is very basic, that's the point. Would be great if more guitarists participate here.

None of us were there.

There are people here who attended some of their recording sessions. I don't know about Jamaica, though...

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LuxuryStones

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GasLightStreet

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LuxuryStones
If you only judge it by ear then your guess is as good as mine.

Taylor being pissed cause they choose the version with Sonny Rollins? Seems unlikely to me - Taylor most likely would have sent a postcard to Sonny: "Great job, man".

Remains the rhythm guitar.

So you think it's Taylor on guitar. And that's it. No Keith.

I don't know, I never said it's not Keith. Not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor. All the other stories, Sonny Rollins, Taylor being pissed, assuming it must be Keith bring us nowhere. I do hear shades of Taylor in it though. The strumming is very basic, that's the point. Would be great if more guitarists participate here.

None of us were there.

Taylor said in 1993 that he played on it as it appears on the LP. So that means... the guitar you hear is Taylor and not Richards and Richards isn't even on the track.

It's one or the other. There's only one guitar. If it's "not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor" then who is it. Because that leaves Jagger and it sure ain't him.

That fast little fiddle in there... that's not a Keith move.

I dunno. Everything credits Keith yet Taylor said he's on the LP version, which means it's not Keith.

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GasLightStreet

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LuxuryStones

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GasLightStreet

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LuxuryStones
If you only judge it by ear then your guess is as good as mine.

Taylor being pissed cause they choose the version with Sonny Rollins? Seems unlikely to me - Taylor most likely would have sent a postcard to Sonny: "Great job, man".

Remains the rhythm guitar.

So you think it's Taylor on guitar. And that's it. No Keith.

I don't know, I never said it's not Keith. Not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor. All the other stories, Sonny Rollins, Taylor being pissed, assuming it must be Keith bring us nowhere. I do hear shades of Taylor in it though. The strumming is very basic, that's the point. Would be great if more guitarists participate here.

None of us were there.

Taylor said in 1993 that he played on it as it appears on the LP. So that means... the guitar you hear is Taylor and not Richards and Richards isn't even on the track.

It's one or the other. There's only one guitar. If it's "not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor" then who is it. Because that leaves Jagger and it sure ain't him.

That fast little fiddle in there... that's not a Keith move.

I dunno. Everything credits Keith yet Taylor said he's on the LP version, which means it's not Keith.

He said he played on the song, not as it appeared on the LP.

That could be the same, the LP and the song, in Taylor's or anybody's vision.

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet

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LuxuryStones

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GasLightStreet

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LuxuryStones
If you only judge it by ear then your guess is as good as mine.

Taylor being pissed cause they choose the version with Sonny Rollins? Seems unlikely to me - Taylor most likely would have sent a postcard to Sonny: "Great job, man".

Remains the rhythm guitar.

So you think it's Taylor on guitar. And that's it. No Keith.

I don't know, I never said it's not Keith. Not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor. All the other stories, Sonny Rollins, Taylor being pissed, assuming it must be Keith bring us nowhere. I do hear shades of Taylor in it though. The strumming is very basic, that's the point. Would be great if more guitarists participate here.

None of us were there.

Taylor said in 1993 that he played on it as it appears on the LP. So that means... the guitar you hear is Taylor and not Richards and Richards isn't even on the track.

It's one or the other. There's only one guitar. If it's "not necessarily Keith, not necessarily Taylor" then who is it. Because that leaves Jagger and it sure ain't him.

That fast little fiddle in there... that's not a Keith move.

I dunno. Everything credits Keith yet Taylor said he's on the LP version, which means it's not Keith.

He said he played on the song, not as it appeared on the LP.

You see, that's what I figured. He played on the original recording but it got wiped. Hence it being Keith. "I recorded on that" he may have thought, not hearing his playing.

Case closed.

Well, that's what I was saying all along.

Where does Taylor say he didn't play on WOAF as it is on the LP? I've only seen him say he plays on both songs. Taylor actually did say he wrote a lot of the ballads, or at least had significant influence on them.

Some of you guys need to realize the possibility that maybe Richards didn't play every rhythm guitar the Stones ever recorded.

If he got wiped, he would have no reason to ask for royalties.

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TravelinMan
Where does Taylor say he didn't play on WOAF as it is on the LP? I've only seen him say he plays on both songs. Taylor actually did say he wrote a lot of the ballads, or at least had significant influence on them.

Some of you guys need to realize the possibility that maybe Richards didn't play every rhythm guitar the Stones ever recorded.

If he got wiped, he would have no reason to ask for royalties.

Well, that's what I was attempting to figure out. I don't recall Taylor specifying about WOAF. If it is Taylor then it's only Taylor. If it isn't Taylor and it's Richards then perhaps Taylor was on the bottoms but his track got wiped, hence why he got pissed (he played on the track, regardless of it not being used, you get paid). Perhaps he did a solo only and he heard Rollins' solo replacing his solo and got pissed.

A few people here know Richards didn't play rhythm yet alone any guitar on some songs. Judging how Keith is though he would've wiped Taylor's track and put his own track on it if he wasn't on it originally ala IORR. But that's not the case since the original recording and the LP version are the same guitar, the same track.

Taylor said he wrote ALL the ballads...

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DandelionPowderman
Taylor said he wrote ALL the ballads...

Wow. So he's responsible for Worried About You, Beast Of Burden, No Use In Crying, Indian Girl, All About You, Heaven, Feel On Baby, Sleep Tonight, Almost Hear You Sigh and the shitty Already Over Me, Always Suffering, Streets Of Love and Following The River as well!!??

For years I always thought the intro to Slave featured a dog bark. But it's Keith's fingers sliding on the strings.

It baffles me that it took Mick FIVE MONTHS to do the vocals for this album.

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TravelinMan
<Where does Taylor say he didn't play on WOAF as it is on the LP?>


He didn't say that.



<If he got wiped, he would have no reason to ask for royalties.?>

That's what I was thinking too.

When you search the internet, you read different comments about who's playing the rhythm track. When you ask people that play the guitar very well and are into the Stones -I asked several by now - they just shrug and say: "who cares" ? Four or five people here do care.

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-11 22:30 by LuxuryStones.

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LuxuryStones

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TravelinMan
<Where does Taylor say he didn't play on WOAF as it is on the LP?>


He didn't say that.



<If he got wiped, he would have no reason to ask for royalties.?>

That's what I was thinking too.

When you search the internet, you read different comments about who's playing the rhythm track. When you ask people that play the guitar very well and are into the Stones -I asked several by now - they just shrug and say: "who cares" ? Four or five people here do care.

The guitarists care, including you

Or the people who edit the wiki site. This is an excerpt of an older version.

Waiting on a Friend
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Single by The Rolling Stones
from the album Tattoo You
B-side "Little T&A"
Released 30 November 1981
Format 7"
Recorded 1972/1973 and 1981
Genre Rock
Length 4:35
Label Rolling Stones
Writer(s) Jagger/Richards
Producer(s) The Glimmer Twins
The Rolling Stones singles chronology
"Start Me Up"
(1981) "Waiting on a Friend"
(1981) "Hang Fire"
(1982)
Tattoo You track listing
[show]11 tracks
"Waiting on a Friend" is a song by The Rolling Stones from their 1981 album Tattoo You. Released as the album's second single, it reached #13 on the US singles chart.

Contents [hide]
1 History
2 Release
3 Notes
4 External links
History
It was first played as early as 1970, when Mick Taylor first joined the group and was recording with Mick Jagger in London. Recording on "Waiting on a Friend" began in late 1972 through early 1973 in Kingston, Jamaica, during the Goats Head Soup sessions when the band still had Taylor as a member. His guitar piece made it to the overdubbing sessions in April 1981 when the song was selected by Tattoo You producer Chris Kimsey as one the band could re-work for the album.

And who made this new Wiki story that wasn't on Wiki three days ago?

I don't know; more than one year ago btw.




Well, I just got fed up with writing all those credit lists out and everyone wants one above the other one, and then I couldn't remember who is playing, so I thought Oh, everyone got paid anyway. So it's much easier to leave the whole thing. I mean I didn't get any credits on it except for the songwriting... I mean it didn't mention my name and what I did and played on the album. If I remember well there is Sonny Rollins on three tracks, Nicky Hopkins on one. There's Pete Townshend.

- Mick Jagger, 1981




[en.wikipedia.org]

Last time I checked it said "only the distinct guitar of Keith Richards was featured on the track". See earlier in this thread

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman
Taylor said he wrote ALL the ballads...

Wow. So he's responsible for Worried About You, Beast Of Burden, No Use In Crying, Indian Girl, All About You, Heaven, Feel On Baby, Sleep Tonight, Almost Hear You Sigh and the shitty Already Over Me, Always Suffering, Streets Of Love and Following The River as well!!??

For years I always thought the intro to Slave featured a dog bark. But it's Keith's fingers sliding on the strings.

It baffles me that it took Mick FIVE MONTHS to do the vocals for this album.

According to Taylor, only Following The River, of course

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TravelinMan
It's not even close, that's Taylor on the original track. Sounds straight off the Leather Jacket/Separately rhythm mode.

That's what I hear. The strumming sounds a lot like Taylor and not at all how Keith would do it. The live versions from 1981 sound like Keith would've done it from the start. You'd expect Keith to rehearse and work the guitar part and WOAF doesn't sound like that.

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Redhotcarpet

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TravelinMan
It's not even close, that's Taylor on the original track. Sounds straight off the Leather Jacket/Separately rhythm mode.

That's what I hear. The strumming sounds a lot like Taylor and not at all how Keith would do it. The live versions from 1981 sound like Keith would've done it from the start. You'd expect Keith to rehearse and work the guitar part and WOAF doesn't sound like that.

Why would we expect that when he never does it?

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DandelionPowderman
Last time I checked it said "only the distinct guitar of Keith Richards was featured on the track". See earlier in this thread

I cannot find it in a second, but "distinct" is the same as very recognizable. (Who came up with that? )
And that's the point, to me it isn't distinct Richards. What could be the most reliable source, apart from perception, Zentgraf? He doesn't mention it unless you pay 0,86 €. Songfacts says "likely Richards" which implies it's still a guess, and some other sites say it's Taylor. Jagger stated he doesn't remember, but he's a diplomat, Richards never talked about it as far as I know. Taylor said he played on it, Charlie only talks about Sonny, quite understandable. Wymann doesn't mention the subject. And there are no credits on the record sleeve, I believe. TTY must be somewhere on my attic though. Sinister forces are at work, DP.

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LuxuryStones
Jagger stated he doesn't remember

Strongest evidence that it must be Taylor then..

- Doxa

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Doxa

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LuxuryStones
Jagger stated he doesn't remember

Strongest evidence that it must be Taylor then..

- Doxa

Yes!><

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LuxuryStones

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DandelionPowderman
Last time I checked it said "only the distinct guitar of Keith Richards was featured on the track". See earlier in this thread

I cannot find it in a second, but "distinct" is the same as very recognizable. (Who came up with that? )
And that's the point, to me it isn't distinct Richards. What could be the most reliable source, apart from perception, Zentgraf? He doesn't mention it unless you pay 0,86 €. Songfacts says "likely Richards" which implies it's still a guess, and some other sites say it's Taylor. Jagger stated he doesn't remember, but he's a diplomat, Richards never talked about it as far as I know. Taylor said he played on it, Charlie only talks about Sonny, quite understandable. Wymann doesn't mention the subject. And there are no credits on the record sleeve, I believe. TTY must be somewhere on my attic though. Sinister forces are at work, DP.

One thing that has to be underlined is that MOST people think it's Richards, not Taylor, playing on WOAF. It's not 50/50, like you're insinuating

Having said that, it's not archtypical Richards, but it is indeed distinct Richards in places, imo. I'm not ruling out Taylor, but my ears say Richards -and I have repeatedly explained why in this thread.

Hmmm... I listened the original, and some live versions over the years, and I need to say that the obvious assumption that it is Keith Richards playing his typical stuff there starts not to sound so firm at all...

What I find curious, and probably not paying so much attention before, was that how differently Richards approaches the song when playing it live. If the original guitar track is rhythm guitar played a bit "riff" like (as is taken to be in Stones circles), very much in the constitution of the song, Keith's live guitar is more like 'icing the cake', he doesn't care at all about the 'laying down the rhythm' task, but doing cherry-like solos and licks here and there. Some of it occasionally reminds certain parts in the original (for example, when changing the chords into chorus), but even that sounds a bit approximatical. This starts staright from the beginning, from 1981 tour when the song was 'fresh'. Jagger's acoustic guitar seems to be closest to the original rhythm guitar, at least doing some of its job. In later versions - for example, St. Louis 1997 - it is Wood who is actually playing the 'original' guitar part, while Richards is doing his own 'noodling'. (This could be explained, for example, that when the band started to copy the original studio versions live, it was more up to Wood to do it note to note.)

The way Richards play "Waiting On A Friend", say, in Hampton 1981, reminds me the way he would much later contribute to the songs that he (a) didn't remember any longer, being too odd (b) he couldn't play the parts the way he once did. That type of little coloring here and there, little runs, licks, etc. by intuition. But that Richards was not so home with that guitar part in 1981, could also be explained that he had done it some nine years earlier, and probably in a condition much to remember afterwards...

But odd thing is that the original guitar contribution is nothing special at all, so damn basic and everything ('distinct'?). But for a reason or other, Richards seemingly didn't want to play it then nor ever since... The reason can be, of course, that of artistic choice.

I am not claiming that it is Taylor in teh original, but let's say, I am not so certain any longer that it is Keith Richards.

Here are clips of the versions I mentioned:









- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-13 16:07 by Doxa.

<What I find curious, and probably not paying so much attention before, was that how differently Richards approaches the song when playing it live. If the original guitar track is rhythm guitar played a bit "riff" like (as is taken to be in Stones circles), very much in the constitution of the song, Keith's live guitar is more like 'icing the cake>

Not so strange, since Mick plays the strumming with his acoustic, and Ronnie plays melody lines. Keith joins in on the main riff + does some licks.

The single-string stuff Keith plays is the same both on the studio version and live, though.

<But odd thing is that the original guitar contribution is nothing special at all, so damn basic and everything ('distinct'?). But for a reason or other, Richards seemingly didn't want to play it then nor ever since... The reason can be, of course, that of artistic choice.>

It's not a "guitar tune". However, they did indeed try out both a 6-string and a 12-string acoustic guitar on it. Like with Slave, they probably decided that sax and keyboards would be sufficient for the soundscape, in addition to the guitar track.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-13 16:21 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman
<What I find curious, and probably not paying so much attention before, was that how differently Richards approaches the song when playing it live. If the original guitar track is rhythm guitar played a bit "riff" like (as is taken to be in Stones circles), very much in the constitution of the song, Keith's live guitar is more like 'icing the cake>

Not so strange, since Mick plays the strumming with his acoustic.

The single-string stuff Keith plays is the same both on the studio version and live, though.

<But odd thing is that the original guitar contribution is nothing special at all, so damn basic and everything ('distinct'?). But for a reason or other, Richards seemingly didn't want to play it then nor ever since... The reason can be, of course, that of artistic choice.>

It's not a "guitar tune". However, they did indeed try out both a 6-string and a 12-string acoustic guitar on it.

Well, "You Can't Always Get What You Want" is not either a "guitar tune", but that didn't prevent Keith to make it one... But contrast to its live version (and to "Get What You Want"), the guitar has a distinct role in the original version. And I think the reason why people assume that it needs to be Richards, since it is him who usually enjoys that role.

Let me put this way: what Keith does live does not give much support to the claim that he plays the original 1972 recorded guitar track, even though some single-string notes are similar. In that I disagree with some trained ears here...

- Doxa

To think those single-string things we can hear in the original, and which Keith seem to take as a clue to develop further when playing the song live... that reminds me of the old days when Keith came up with the basic chords and templates, and it was Taylor who actually started doing the stuff Keith does now...A reverse thing now?

- Doxa

It could be Keith aping Taylor, of course, but that's really not typical of Keith. Usually, he don't care if it sounds like the original or not on stage

Mick has the role of playing the original guitar track on stage. Maybe it was him all along? He never does the single string-stuff or the licks around the chords, though...