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Could have been back in 1972. The sax is latin-inspired.
That's Wyman playing bass on WOAF.
Mathijs
So, most likely, there never was a Taylor contribution on WOAF?
If Taylor made such a hassle about his contribution, that would imply he's actually lying. Is there proof that it is Keith playing the guitar on WOAF? I know a good guitarist who played with Mick, knows and analyzed his playing very well, and he suspects that it is actually Taylor playing the guitar on WOAF. I share his opinions to a certain extend.
Firstly, I'm not sure if it was Taylor that made a hassle. it could very well have been the media that noticed that there were two tracks from the Taylor era on TY. Taylor reacted on Tops, that we know. However, spesific comments about his involvement on WOAF are hard to find.
Secondly, When it comes to the playing on WOAF I trust my own ears and expertise on Keith's playing. No bad words about your friend, but I think he is wrong here. Guitar players at a certain technical level very rarely degrade themselves technically - Taylor included. Add the fact that some of these licks (e and b-string variations in C maj) are played the exact same clumsily, but charming way on the 1981-tour. I would need pretty solid evidence to be persuaded on this one.
Nobody knows everything, though, and I have been wrong before, of course. For instance about Luxury, apparently. Sources next to the horse's mouth uphold that guitar #3 (the syncopated one) was played by Taylor
But you, Dandie, yourself gave us a straight quote by Taylor claiming that (page three)???
- Doxa
...Judging by his basic strumming on "Satisfaction" 'live' during the OnFire tour up 'till now, I'd say it definitely IS him.
True, but there is nothing about Taylor making a hassle out of lack of credit on that song - neither anything about him claiming to play the guitar on it.
So it's still a mystery what he allegedly played - hence my bass-theory...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 14:31 by DandelionPowderman.
Since I have nothing better to at this very moment: Did Keith claim it?
There's no Taylor on Luxury. That's all Keith.
Mathijs
That's what I thought as well. However, I'm not so sure anymore, for the reasons mentioned above, and because of the systematically executed syncopes.
I get no answers, or is there a reference I can read? (WOAF)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 15:02 by LuxuryStones.
As most places credit him on guitar, as well as writing it, he might not have seen the need for claiming anything
"Recording of "Waiting on a Friend" (as 'Waiting for a Friend') began in late 1972 through early 1973 in Kingston, Jamaica, during the Goats Head Soup sessions when the band still had Mick Taylor as a member, but his guitar part did not make it to the overdubbing sessions in April 1981 when the song was selected by Tattoo You producer Chris Kimsey as one the band could re-work for the album. This leaves Keith Richards' distinct electric guitar part the only guitar on the recording".
(Yeah, it's only Wiki, I know...)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 15:19 by DandelionPowderman.
There were only vocals, sax and percussion overdubs in 1980. The guitar part is most likely from 1972.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 15:34 by DandelionPowderman.
Let's hope he remembers it better than with a few other songs, then
On a serious note, it can be difficult to say whether one indeed has played on a track, if your contributions "vanish" during a mixing process on a multi-tracked recording (like, for instance, Brown Sugar)...
A dead end street.
Would be fun to hear what he says about Luxury as well, and that third guitar in particular. It's impossible for those guys to remember everything, of course
Would be fun to hear what he says about Luxury as well, and that third guitar in particular. It's impossible for those guys to remember everything, of course[/quote]
Yeah, if he hasn't happen to have elephant's memory (nothing indicates that), I guess we should help him out like putting earphones in his head, play the tune, and ask 'do you think or point out if you are playing there something?'... or something...
- Doxa
The outtakes, circulating and uncirculating, clearly reveal that they did quite some overdubbing: a 6-string acoustic and a 12-string acoustic, a percussion track removed, then half a dozen of percussion instruments, then layers of vocal overdubs, then Sonny Rollins doing various takes.
But the basic track was there: Keith's electric, Watts on drums, Wyman on bass and Nicky Hopkins on piano.
Mathijs
Yeah, but do we know when the acoustic guitar overdubs were done?
That's a wiki quote, but it can be edited by anyone. Many people tend to hear Taylor on WAOF. Sorry to be that stubborn, Doxa, but I'm still not convinced it is Keith.
Yes, the tapes are a batch of working tapes from 1980 on.
Mathijs
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Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 27, 2014 22:37
Quote
mtaylorQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
GasLightStreet
Charlie said "On 'Waiting On A Friend' he went into that Santana style of playing. It was incredible, and it really worked."
I've mentioned this before here wondering WTF he's talking about because there's no kind of playing like that on the LP version. So it must be that he was on it playing leads back in 1972 if Charlie said that. Charlie doesn't say A LOT about their songs but it seems that was one that he remembers.
He meant Time Waits For No One or CYHMK, surely.
Not too much Santana in WOAF
Could have been back in 1972. The sax is latin-inspired.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 7, 2014 12:53
Quote
Blueranger
We may never know wether Taylor played bass or not.
However, looking on tracks from Goats Head Soup, Bill was very absent in general.
Bill only played on Angie, Winter, Can You Hear The Music and Star Star, so it's not imposible Yaylor played on the Tattoo You tracks as well.
That's Wyman playing bass on WOAF.
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 13:19
Quote
MathijsQuote
Blueranger
We may never know wether Taylor played bass or not.
However, looking on tracks from Goats Head Soup, Bill was very absent in general.
Bill only played on Angie, Winter, Can You Hear The Music and Star Star, so it's not imposible Yaylor played on the Tattoo You tracks as well.
That's Wyman playing bass on WOAF.
Mathijs
So, most likely, there never was a Taylor contribution on WOAF?
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:04
Quote
DandelionPowderman
So, most likely, there never was a Taylor contribution on WOAF?
If Taylor made such a hassle about his contribution, that would imply he's actually lying. Is there proof that it is Keith playing the guitar on WOAF? I know a good guitarist who played with Mick, knows and analyzed his playing very well, and he suspects that it is actually Taylor playing the guitar on WOAF. I share his opinions to a certain extend.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:17
Quote
LuxuryStonesQuote
DandelionPowderman
So, most likely, there never was a Taylor contribution on WOAF?
If Taylor made such a hassle about his contribution, that would imply he's actually lying. Is there proof that it is Keith playing the guitar on WOAF? I know a good guitarist who played with Mick, knows and analyzed his playing very well, and he suspects that it is actually Taylor playing the guitar on WOAF. I share his opinions to a certain extend.
Firstly, I'm not sure if it was Taylor that made a hassle. it could very well have been the media that noticed that there were two tracks from the Taylor era on TY. Taylor reacted on Tops, that we know. However, spesific comments about his involvement on WOAF are hard to find.
Secondly, When it comes to the playing on WOAF I trust my own ears and expertise on Keith's playing. No bad words about your friend, but I think he is wrong here. Guitar players at a certain technical level very rarely degrade themselves technically - Taylor included. Add the fact that some of these licks (e and b-string variations in C maj) are played the exact same clumsily, but charming way on the 1981-tour. I would need pretty solid evidence to be persuaded on this one.
Nobody knows everything, though, and I have been wrong before, of course. For instance about Luxury, apparently. Sources next to the horse's mouth uphold that guitar #3 (the syncopated one) was played by Taylor
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:23
The strumming on WOAF is very basic indeed, could be anyone, even Taylor or Keith or Ron. . My question is: is there proof that it is Keith?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 14:23 by LuxuryStones.
. My question is: is there proof that it is Keith?Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 14:23 by LuxuryStones.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:27
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Firstly, I'm not sure if it was Taylor that made a hassle. it could very well have been the media that noticed that there were two tracks from the Taylor era on TY. Taylor reacted on Tops, that we know. However, spesific comments about his involvement on WOAF are hard to find.
But you, Dandie, yourself gave us a straight quote by Taylor claiming that (page three)???
- Doxa
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
RoughJusticeOnYa
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:30
Quote
LuxuryStones
The strumming on WOAF is very basic indeed, could be anyone, even Taylor
...Judging by his basic strumming on "Satisfaction" 'live' during the OnFire tour up 'till now, I'd say it definitely IS him.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:30
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Firstly, I'm not sure if it was Taylor that made a hassle. it could very well have been the media that noticed that there were two tracks from the Taylor era on TY. Taylor reacted on Tops, that we know. However, spesific comments about his involvement on WOAF are hard to find.
But you, Dandie, yourself gave us a straight quote by Taylor claiming that (page three)???
- Doxa
True, but there is nothing about Taylor making a hassle out of lack of credit on that song - neither anything about him claiming to play the guitar on it.
So it's still a mystery what he allegedly played - hence my bass-theory...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 14:31 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:40
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Firstly, I'm not sure if it was Taylor that made a hassle. it could very well have been the media that noticed that there were two tracks from the Taylor era on TY. Taylor reacted on Tops, that we know. However, spesific comments about his involvement on WOAF are hard to find.
But you, Dandie, yourself gave us a straight quote by Taylor claiming that (page three)???
- Doxa
True, but there is nothing about Taylor making a hassle out of lack of credit on that song - neither anything about him claiming to play the guitar on it.
So it's still a mystery what he allegedly played - hence my bass-theory...
Since I have nothing better to at this very moment: Did Keith claim it?
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:47
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Nobody knows everything, though, and I have been wrong before, of course. For instance about Luxury, apparently. Sources next to the horse's mouth uphold that guitar #3 (the syncopated one) was played by Taylor
There's no Taylor on Luxury. That's all Keith.
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:50
Taylor did claim he played on WOAF and Tops.
Thing is: he probably did play on it, as they probably did 40 takes of that track, and they either used the one where Taylor just happened to take a piss, or they wiped his contribution and that's the only take that has ever leaked.
It could very well be the same case as with Brown Sugar: Taylor has stated he still is very proud of Brown Sugar whenever he hears it. Truth is that he isn't on the released version, as Keith wiped all his original and overdub parts, and did all the guitars by himself.
Mathijs
Thing is: he probably did play on it, as they probably did 40 takes of that track, and they either used the one where Taylor just happened to take a piss, or they wiped his contribution and that's the only take that has ever leaked.
It could very well be the same case as with Brown Sugar: Taylor has stated he still is very proud of Brown Sugar whenever he hears it. Truth is that he isn't on the released version, as Keith wiped all his original and overdub parts, and did all the guitars by himself.
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 14:52
Quote
MathijsQuote
DandelionPowderman
Nobody knows everything, though, and I have been wrong before, of course. For instance about Luxury, apparently. Sources next to the horse's mouth uphold that guitar #3 (the syncopated one) was played by Taylor
There's no Taylor on Luxury. That's all Keith.
Mathijs
That's what I thought as well. However, I'm not so sure anymore, for the reasons mentioned above, and because of the systematically executed syncopes.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:01
Quote
Mathijs
Taylor did claim he played on WOAF and Tops.
Thing is: he probably did play on it, as they probably did 40 takes of that track, and they either used the one where Taylor just happened to take a piss, or they wiped his contribution and that's the only take that has ever leaked.
It could very well be the same case as with Brown Sugar: Taylor has stated he still is very proud of Brown Sugar whenever he hears it. Truth is that he isn't on the released version, as Keith wiped all his original and overdub parts, and did all the guitars by himself.
Mathijs
I get no answers, or is there a reference I can read? (WOAF)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 15:02 by LuxuryStones.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:09
Quote
LuxuryStonesQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Firstly, I'm not sure if it was Taylor that made a hassle. it could very well have been the media that noticed that there were two tracks from the Taylor era on TY. Taylor reacted on Tops, that we know. However, spesific comments about his involvement on WOAF are hard to find.
But you, Dandie, yourself gave us a straight quote by Taylor claiming that (page three)???
- Doxa
True, but there is nothing about Taylor making a hassle out of lack of credit on that song - neither anything about him claiming to play the guitar on it.
So it's still a mystery what he allegedly played - hence my bass-theory...
Since I have nothing better to at this very moment: Did Keith claim it?
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:15
Playing that guitar I mean ?
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:18
Quote
LuxuryStones
Playing that guitar I mean ?
As most places credit him on guitar, as well as writing it, he might not have seen the need for claiming anything
"Recording of "Waiting on a Friend" (as 'Waiting for a Friend') began in late 1972 through early 1973 in Kingston, Jamaica, during the Goats Head Soup sessions when the band still had Mick Taylor as a member, but his guitar part did not make it to the overdubbing sessions in April 1981 when the song was selected by Tattoo You producer Chris Kimsey as one the band could re-work for the album. This leaves Keith Richards' distinct electric guitar part the only guitar on the recording".
(Yeah, it's only Wiki, I know...)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 15:19 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:27
In an interview Chris Kimsey stated in 1981 it was only Jagger who did the vocals overdub. The instrumental track was ready when Taylor was with them and no instrumental overdubs were done in 1981.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:33
Quote
LuxuryStones
In an interview Chris Kimsey stated in 1981 it was only Jagger who did the vocals overdub. The instrumental track was ready when Taylor was with them and no instrumental overdubs were done in 1981.
There were only vocals, sax and percussion overdubs in 1980. The guitar part is most likely from 1972.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 15:34 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:46
"Only 'Waiting On A Friend' was already complete. The main thing missing from most of them was Sir Mick's vocal, because he hadn't finished writing the lyrics, so those parts were recorded in Paris in mid-1981. They'd rented a bloody warehouse on the edge of the Peripherique [ring road] in a horrible part of the city — all industrial sites and train sidings... no restaurants! I don't know who'd found the warehouse, but it was big and cheap, they put the mobile truck inside there, and it was so cold that, when Mick did the vocals, you could see icy breath coming out of his mouth. I remember that place to this day. It was absolutely diabolical."
Chris Kimsey.
I still haven't got the ultimate answer. I guess I'm gonna ask the man himself
Chris Kimsey.
I still haven't got the ultimate answer. I guess I'm gonna ask the man himself
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 15:50
Quote
LuxuryStones
"Only 'Waiting On A Friend' was already complete. The main thing missing from most of them was Sir Mick's vocal, because he hadn't finished writing the lyrics, so those parts were recorded in Paris in mid-1981. They'd rented a bloody warehouse on the edge of the Peripherique [ring road] in a horrible part of the city — all industrial sites and train sidings... no restaurants! I don't know who'd found the warehouse, but it was big and cheap, they put the mobile truck inside there, and it was so cold that, when Mick did the vocals, you could see icy breath coming out of his mouth. I remember that place to this day. It was absolutely diabolical."
Chris Kimsey.
I still haven't got the ultimate answer. I guess I'm gonna ask the man himself
Let's hope he remembers it better than with a few other songs, then
On a serious note, it can be difficult to say whether one indeed has played on a track, if your contributions "vanish" during a mixing process on a multi-tracked recording (like, for instance, Brown Sugar)...
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 16:23
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
LuxuryStones
"Only 'Waiting On A Friend' was already complete. The main thing missing from most of them was Sir Mick's vocal, because he hadn't finished writing the lyrics, so those parts were recorded in Paris in mid-1981. They'd rented a bloody warehouse on the edge of the Peripherique [ring road] in a horrible part of the city — all industrial sites and train sidings... no restaurants! I don't know who'd found the warehouse, but it was big and cheap, they put the mobile truck inside there, and it was so cold that, when Mick did the vocals, you could see icy breath coming out of his mouth. I remember that place to this day. It was absolutely diabolical."
Chris Kimsey.
I still haven't got the ultimate answer. I guess I'm gonna ask the man himself
Let's hope he remembers it better than with a few other songs, then
On a serious note, it can be difficult to say whether one indeed has played on a track, if your contributions "vanish" during a mixing process on a multi-tracked recording (like, for instance, Brown Sugar)...
A dead end street.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 7, 2014 17:00
Another thing to notice is that human memory has certain limits... When we are talking about a song that never made the final cut, or wasn't even considered making it, who did and what could be rather hard to remember years later. I mean, making "Brown Sugar" in those circumstances (Muscle Shoals) was surely a thing to remember afterwards, especially as the song was such a big one and to be heard in a radio daily (to refesh one's memory). But when the case is an unreleased demo, popping up suddenly some nine years later, memory can be rather hazy or make tricks. I guess most Taylor - who had recorded countless other non-released tunes with the Stones along the years as well - can do is recall the tune somehow and doing something with it. If his contributions have 'vanished' from the released version, like it did with "Brown Sugar", could be easily possible.
Of course, it could be that he has an incredible memory, and he can easily and distinguishly recollect things like that, but I am a bit skeptical...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 17:06 by Doxa.
Of course, it could be that he has an incredible memory, and he can easily and distinguishly recollect things like that, but I am a bit skeptical...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-10-07 17:06 by Doxa.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 17:05
Quote
Doxa
Another thing to notice is that human memory has certain limits... When we are talking about a song that never made the final cut, or wasn't even considered making it, who did and what could be rather hard to remember years later. I mean, making "Brown Sugar" in those circumstances (Muscle Shoals) was surely a thing to remember afterwards, especially as the song was such a big one and to be heard in a radio daily (to refesh one's memory). But when the case is an unreleased demo, popping up suddenly some nine years later, memory can be rather hazy or make tricks. I guess most Taylor - who had recorded countless other non-released tunes with the Stones along the years as well - can do is recall the tune somehow and doing something with it. If his contributions have 'vanished' from the released version, like it did with "Brown Sugar", could be easily possible.
Of course, it could be that he has an incredible memory, and he can distinguish things like that, but I am a bit skeptical...
- Doxa
Would be fun to hear what he says about Luxury as well, and that third guitar in particular. It's impossible for those guys to remember everything, of course
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 7, 2014 17:20
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Would be fun to hear what he says about Luxury as well, and that third guitar in particular. It's impossible for those guys to remember everything, of course
[/quote]Yeah, if he hasn't happen to have elephant's memory (nothing indicates that), I guess we should help him out like putting earphones in his head, play the tune, and ask 'do you think or point out if you are playing there something?'... or something...
- Doxa
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 7, 2014 17:27
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
LuxuryStones
In an interview Chris Kimsey stated in 1981 it was only Jagger who did the vocals overdub. The instrumental track was ready when Taylor was with them and no instrumental overdubs were done in 1981.
There were only vocals, sax and percussion overdubs in 1980. The guitar part is most likely from 1972.
The outtakes, circulating and uncirculating, clearly reveal that they did quite some overdubbing: a 6-string acoustic and a 12-string acoustic, a percussion track removed, then half a dozen of percussion instruments, then layers of vocal overdubs, then Sonny Rollins doing various takes.
But the basic track was there: Keith's electric, Watts on drums, Wyman on bass and Nicky Hopkins on piano.
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 7, 2014 17:36
Quote
MathijsQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
LuxuryStones
In an interview Chris Kimsey stated in 1981 it was only Jagger who did the vocals overdub. The instrumental track was ready when Taylor was with them and no instrumental overdubs were done in 1981.
There were only vocals, sax and percussion overdubs in 1980. The guitar part is most likely from 1972.
The outtakes, circulating and uncirculating, clearly reveal that they did quite some overdubbing: a 6-string acoustic and a 12-string acoustic, a percussion track removed, then half a dozen of percussion instruments, then layers of vocal overdubs, then Sonny Rollins doing various takes.
But the basic track was there: Keith's electric, Watts on drums, Wyman on bass and Nicky Hopkins on piano.
Mathijs
Yeah, but do we know when the acoustic guitar overdubs were done?
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 17:42
@ Mathijs: What makes you think it's Keith on the basic track, I'm not saying it isn't, but it could have been Taylor, judging the playing?
The outtakes, circulating and uncirculating, clearly reveal that they did quite some overdubbing: a 6-string acoustic and a 12-string acoustic. Do you have a link? The subject keeps fascinating me.
The outtakes, circulating and uncirculating, clearly reveal that they did quite some overdubbing: a 6-string acoustic and a 12-string acoustic. Do you have a link? The subject keeps fascinating me.
Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
LuxuryStones
()
Date: October 7, 2014 18:56
Quote
Doxa
Another thing to notice is that human memory has certain limits... When we are talking about a song that never made the final cut, or wasn't even considered making it, who did and what could be rather hard to remember years later.
- Doxa
That's a wiki quote, but it can be edited by anyone. Many people tend to hear Taylor on WAOF. Sorry to be that stubborn, Doxa,
but I'm still not convinced it is Keith.Re: Tattoo You question
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 7, 2014 21:03
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MathijsQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
LuxuryStones
In an interview Chris Kimsey stated in 1981 it was only Jagger who did the vocals overdub. The instrumental track was ready when Taylor was with them and no instrumental overdubs were done in 1981.
There were only vocals, sax and percussion overdubs in 1980. The guitar part is most likely from 1972.
The outtakes, circulating and uncirculating, clearly reveal that they did quite some overdubbing: a 6-string acoustic and a 12-string acoustic, a percussion track removed, then half a dozen of percussion instruments, then layers of vocal overdubs, then Sonny Rollins doing various takes.
But the basic track was there: Keith's electric, Watts on drums, Wyman on bass and Nicky Hopkins on piano.
Mathijs
Yeah, but do we know when the acoustic guitar overdubs were done?
Yes, the tapes are a batch of working tapes from 1980 on.
Mathijs
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