Tell Me :
Talk
I agree with Doxa - I love that track too.
. Doxa, you explain it perfectly!
no, there is also a bell being played, or a glockenspiel. I think Silver Dagger is describing keith's guitar tone as bell-like, but the high-pitched bell sound is from a bell.
It sure is, but it's not the glockenspiel-sound we're talking about here, because that can be heard separately very clearly.
This is one of the main reasons I love this board. Thanks, mate!
Phil, how the hell do you know all this stuff? What do you do? Are you an engineer / musician?
Phil, I think you're right about the ping being induced by the guitar. But what the fvuck would that effect be then? It must be some effect from the studio's board, but I know of none....
Concerning the Conqueror- Are you sure it isn't the Supreme? I remember seeing pics sitting next to a Supreme during recording of Satanic. The Supreme has a somewhat clearer sound than a Conqueror at high volume.
Mathijs
Amateur musician and geek for info about 1966 - 1968 stones gear etc.
For those that want that era's sound in a new, but small, relativley cheap package you should buy a ZT Lunchbox amp. For what ever reason, it's basic sound is very similar to the solid state vox's the stones used during 1967 - 1968.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 14:33 by His Majesty.
There's also a similar ringing sound on Street Fighting Man although that could well be the shenai (?) that Dave Mason plays. I take it the shenai is a relative of the sitar.
They already did such stuff before Hendrix or Pepper.
Yeah ok
but still, before the riffs were single note riffs. Mostly. And Citadel is a heavy chord riff.
Love Mick's vocal on this. Is that Brian and Bill singing backup?
Listened to some ZT demos on YT. It does have that sound in it. Pretty cool.
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
I have a load of guitar pedal demos here: [www.youtube.com]
How did the Magical Mystery Box compare to a genuine Supreme? I still can't find a Supreme, so maybe this box is an option?
Mathijs
It's the Brilliant Channel of those amps, pretty much spot on.
If yah didn't like the Conqueror so much, why do you want a Supreme?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 23:42 by His Majesty.
Well, at that time I had so many guitars and amps I wanted to clean out the gear I mainly had from a collectors point of view, and only wanted to keep the stuff I really used in the bands I was in. Now most is gone, but there is some gear I regret I sold. The Conqueror is one fo them, as a '63 Humingbird and a 60's Tele that was really, really good. Oh well.
Mathijs
Like the Danelectro demo.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
seitan
()
Date: August 6, 2012 19:22
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Great, great track! The embroyo of what was to become Keith's signature playing style - only this is meaner and heavier than that
Exactly. Keith is really getting there somewhere, as we can in hindsight say. There is much more, say, "Jumpin' Jack Flash" than "Sing This All Together" in it.
Anyways, "Citadel" represents very much what it so important and valuable in SATANIC MAJESTIES experiment - no, I can nevr call it a masterpiece, but I see the album as a neceassary delopment in getting rid of teh old pop format they mastered in AFTERMATH and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS. Here they free their minds and start really start digging the whole idea of a song and a form. Most of it is kind of deconstruction - call it psychedelia if you like - but I think that was kind of needed to in order to find the focus, maturity and tightness they achieved in BEGGARS BANQUET. Getting rid of ALO, and trusting 'blindly' their own artistic muse was I guess necessary, even though a pro produder like Jimmy Miller was needed in order to find the right track again. But shit, "Citadel" with "2000 Man", "She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" are are simply phenomenal songs as they are, and almost all the tracks have some incredibly intersting and poteantial features in them that makes them rewarding and fascinating listening again and again. SATANIC MAJESTIES has depth in it that most of their catalog can only dream of.
I really love the atmosphere of "Citadel" - there is something I find so unique Stones-like in it that I would much rather listen to it than anything on SGT. PEPPER (which says more of me than of the greatness of the music). Maybe it is that mystique feeling of danger I find so fascinating.
- Doxa
Right on, brother!
I agree with Doxa - I love that track too.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Blue
()
Date: August 6, 2012 22:31
Quote
seitanQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
Great, great track! The embroyo of what was to become Keith's signature playing style - only this is meaner and heavier than that
Exactly. Keith is really getting there somewhere, as we can in hindsight say. There is much more, say, "Jumpin' Jack Flash" than "Sing This All Together" in it.
Anyways, "Citadel" represents very much what it so important and valuable in SATANIC MAJESTIES experiment - no, I can nevr call it a masterpiece, but I see the album as a neceassary delopment in getting rid of teh old pop format they mastered in AFTERMATH and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS. Here they free their minds and start really start digging the whole idea of a song and a form. Most of it is kind of deconstruction - call it psychedelia if you like - but I think that was kind of needed to in order to find the focus, maturity and tightness they achieved in BEGGARS BANQUET. Getting rid of ALO, and trusting 'blindly' their own artistic muse was I guess necessary, even though a pro produder like Jimmy Miller was needed in order to find the right track again. But shit, "Citadel" with "2000 Man", "She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" are are simply phenomenal songs as they are, and almost all the tracks have some incredibly intersting and poteantial features in them that makes them rewarding and fascinating listening again and again. SATANIC MAJESTIES has depth in it that most of their catalog can only dream of.
I really love the atmosphere of "Citadel" - there is something I find so unique Stones-like in it that I would much rather listen to it than anything on SGT. PEPPER (which says more of me than of the greatness of the music). Maybe it is that mystique feeling of danger I find so fascinating.
- Doxa
Right on, brother!
I agree with Doxa - I love that track too.
. Doxa, you explain it perfectly!Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
cc
()
Date: August 7, 2012 02:49
Quote
2000 LYFH
OK so that high pitched (bell) sound did come from Keith's guitar. I'm also interested in how he did this...
no, there is also a bell being played, or a glockenspiel. I think Silver Dagger is describing keith's guitar tone as bell-like, but the high-pitched bell sound is from a bell.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Denny
()
Date: August 7, 2012 06:18
Those Decca compilations aren't too imaginative, but I got to know "Citadel" through the Solid Rock album. This song and "All Sold Out" among the more well-known ones were a great introduction to the more unhinged, experimental '60's side of the Stones, making that compilation a pretty good one (by accident?).
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2012 10:21
Quote
ccQuote
2000 LYFH
OK so that high pitched (bell) sound did come from Keith's guitar. I'm also interested in how he did this...
no, there is also a bell being played, or a glockenspiel. I think Silver Dagger is describing keith's guitar tone as bell-like, but the high-pitched bell sound is from a bell.
It sure is, but it's not the glockenspiel-sound we're talking about here, because that can be heard separately very clearly.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 7, 2012 15:59
Actually, it seems the high pitched pinging sound is coming from Keith's guitar. It's not a glockenspiel or a bell. How it is achieved I do not know, but in Satanic Sessions box set you can hear Glyn asking Keith if he wants to keep the effect on his guitar.
On Citadel Keith's guitar sound is the sound of a cranked Normal Channel on Vox Conqueror with the inbuilt tremolo effect engaged... and the addition of the mystery pinging effect.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
...
The bright and sometimes fuzzy sounds heard on 1967 - 1968 Rolling Stones recordings is mostly down to the groovy all solid state Vox's. I think the whole of Their Satanic Majesties Request was done using those amps for the electric guitars, Beggars Banquet being a mix between Vox Supreme, Vox AC30 and Triumph Silicon 100.
I used to own a Supreme, here's some clips I did of it...
[www.myspace.com]
...
Between The Buttons amps was a mix of Fender Showman, Vox UL-760(solid state preamp/valve power section) and a Futurama Corvette.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-07 16:02 by His Majesty.
On Citadel Keith's guitar sound is the sound of a cranked Normal Channel on Vox Conqueror with the inbuilt tremolo effect engaged... and the addition of the mystery pinging effect.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
...
The bright and sometimes fuzzy sounds heard on 1967 - 1968 Rolling Stones recordings is mostly down to the groovy all solid state Vox's. I think the whole of Their Satanic Majesties Request was done using those amps for the electric guitars, Beggars Banquet being a mix between Vox Supreme, Vox AC30 and Triumph Silicon 100.
I used to own a Supreme, here's some clips I did of it...
[www.myspace.com]
...
Between The Buttons amps was a mix of Fender Showman, Vox UL-760(solid state preamp/valve power section) and a Futurama Corvette.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-07 16:02 by His Majesty.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 7, 2012 16:29
Quote
His Majesty
Actually, it seems the high pitched pinging sound is coming from Keith's guitar. It's not a glockenspiel or a bell. How it is achieved I do not know, but in Satanic Sessions box set you can hear Glyn asking Keith if he wants to keep the effect on his guitar.
On Citadel Keith's guitar sound is the sound of a cranked Normal Channel on Vox Conqueror with the inbuilt tremolo effect engaged... and the addition of the mystery pinging effect.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
...
The bright and sometimes fuzzy sounds heard on 1967 - 1968 Rolling Stones recordings is mostly down to the groovy all solid state Vox's. I think the whole of Their Satanic Majesties Request was done using those amps for the electric guitars, Beggars Banquet being a mix between Vox Supreme, Vox AC30 and Triumph Silicon 100.
I used to own a Supreme, here's some clips I did of it...
[www.myspace.com]
...
Between The Buttons amps was a mix of Fender Showman, Vox UL-760(solid state preamp/valve power section) and a Futurama Corvette.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
This is one of the main reasons I love this board. Thanks, mate!Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: August 8, 2012 11:38
Quote
His Majesty
Actually, it seems the high pitched pinging sound is coming from Keith's guitar. It's not a glockenspiel or a bell. How it is achieved I do not know, but in Satanic Sessions box set you can hear Glyn asking Keith if he wants to keep the effect on his guitar.
On Citadel Keith's guitar sound is the sound of a cranked Normal Channel on Vox Conqueror with the inbuilt tremolo effect engaged... and the addition of the mystery pinging effect.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
...
The bright and sometimes fuzzy sounds heard on 1967 - 1968 Rolling Stones recordings is mostly down to the groovy all solid state Vox's. I think the whole of Their Satanic Majesties Request was done using those amps for the electric guitars, Beggars Banquet being a mix between Vox Supreme, Vox AC30 and Triumph Silicon 100.
I used to own a Supreme, here's some clips I did of it...
[www.myspace.com]
...
Between The Buttons amps was a mix of Fender Showman, Vox UL-760(solid state preamp/valve power section) and a Futurama Corvette.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
Phil, how the hell do you know all this stuff? What do you do? Are you an engineer / musician?
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
tonterapi
()
Date: August 8, 2012 11:57
How about "nerd".Quote
Silver Dagger
Phil, how the hell do you know all this stuff? What do you do? Are you an engineer / musician?
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
pike bishop
()
Date: August 8, 2012 12:10
One other point,during The Tet Offensive (Vietnamese new year)1968,some of the bitterest fighting took place in Hue (the old imperial capital)Part of the city was known as The Citadel.American troops listened to The Stones "Citadel"with grim irony.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: August 8, 2012 13:51
Quote
His Majesty
Actually, it seems the high pitched pinging sound is coming from Keith's guitar. It's not a glockenspiel or a bell. How it is achieved I do not know, but in Satanic Sessions box set you can hear Glyn asking Keith if he wants to keep the effect on his guitar.
On Citadel Keith's guitar sound is the sound of a cranked Normal Channel on Vox Conqueror with the inbuilt tremolo effect engaged... and the addition of the mystery pinging effect.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
...
The bright and sometimes fuzzy sounds heard on 1967 - 1968 Rolling Stones recordings is mostly down to the groovy all solid state Vox's. I think the whole of Their Satanic Majesties Request was done using those amps for the electric guitars, Beggars Banquet being a mix between Vox Supreme, Vox AC30 and Triumph Silicon 100.
I used to own a Supreme, here's some clips I did of it...
[www.myspace.com]
...
Between The Buttons amps was a mix of Fender Showman, Vox UL-760(solid state preamp/valve power section) and a Futurama Corvette.
[www.voxshowroom.com]
Phil, I think you're right about the ping being induced by the guitar. But what the fvuck would that effect be then? It must be some effect from the studio's board, but I know of none....
Concerning the Conqueror- Are you sure it isn't the Supreme? I remember seeing pics sitting next to a Supreme during recording of Satanic. The Supreme has a somewhat clearer sound than a Conqueror at high volume.
Mathijs
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 8, 2012 14:15
The effect is puzzling, makes perfect sense for it to be a glockenspiel or something similar, but listen close to the satanic sessions stuff and it seems to be coming from the guitar, it's even briefly talked about. Perhaps something has been done to high E string so that when it's struck it gives that high pitched ping? 
The Conqueror and Supreme sound much the same dirt wise at high volume, but the Supreme is louder and bit fatter due to higher wattage and bigger cab. No pics that i've seen showing the Supreme at Satanic sessions, but some showing the Conqueror. They used Supreme for 1967 European tour so no reason why they wouldn't for sessions too. Could be either, much the same thing really.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 14:18 by His Majesty.
The Conqueror and Supreme sound much the same dirt wise at high volume, but the Supreme is louder and bit fatter due to higher wattage and bigger cab.
No pics that i've seen showing the Supreme at Satanic sessions, but some showing the Conqueror. They used Supreme for 1967 European tour so no reason why they wouldn't for sessions too. Could be either, much the same thing really.Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 14:18 by His Majesty.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 8, 2012 14:25
Quote
tonterapiHow about "nerd".Quote
Silver Dagger
Phil, how the hell do you know all this stuff? What do you do? Are you an engineer / musician?
Amateur musician and geek for info about 1966 - 1968 stones gear etc.
For those that want that era's sound in a new, but small, relativley cheap package you should buy a ZT Lunchbox amp. For what ever reason, it's basic sound is very similar to the solid state vox's the stones used during 1967 - 1968.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 14:33 by His Majesty.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: August 8, 2012 15:46
Quote
His Majesty
The effect is puzzling, makes perfect sense for it to be a glockenspiel or something similar, but listen close to the satanic sessions stuff and it seems to be coming from the guitar, it's even briefly talked about. Perhaps something has been done to high E string so that when it's struck it gives that high pitched ping?
The Conqueror and Supreme sound much the same dirt wise at high volume, but the Supreme is louder and bit fatter due to higher wattage and bigger cab.
There's also a similar ringing sound on Street Fighting Man although that could well be the shenai (?) that Dave Mason plays. I take it the shenai is a relative of the sitar.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 8, 2012 15:48
Quote
Silver Dagger
There's also a similar ringing sound on Street Fighting Man although that could well be the shenai (?) that Dave Mason plays. I take it the shenai is a relative of the sitar.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: August 8, 2012 16:12
Isnt Citadel in some ways the Stones answer to Sgt Pepper, the opening track, and Hendrix? Not a rip off or anything like that, just an attempt at the harder heavier style.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 8, 2012 16:15
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Isnt Citadel in some ways the Stones answer to Sgt Pepper, the opening track, and Hendrix? Not a rip off or anything like that, just an attempt at the harder heavier style.
They already did such stuff before Hendrix or Pepper.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
buttons67
()
Date: August 8, 2012 16:30
citadel is a fantastic record, also heard an instrumental version on youtube which is awesone.
i loved the stones in this period, from out of our heads through to beggars banquet saw the band develop new depths and sounds to add to thier already impressive repertoire. dont understand folk who dont like the aftermath period or between the buttons, and satanic majesties is only a couple of songs short of a classic.
i loved the stones in this period, from out of our heads through to beggars banquet saw the band develop new depths and sounds to add to thier already impressive repertoire. dont understand folk who dont like the aftermath period or between the buttons, and satanic majesties is only a couple of songs short of a classic.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Still A Fool
()
Date: August 8, 2012 17:23
There's difinitely some slap-back delay on his guitar. His amp must have been cranked because that bell sound seems to my ears to be caused by feedback plus the delay efeect.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: August 8, 2012 17:30
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Redhotcarpet
Isnt Citadel in some ways the Stones answer to Sgt Pepper, the opening track, and Hendrix? Not a rip off or anything like that, just an attempt at the harder heavier style.
They already did such stuff before Hendrix or Pepper.
Yeah ok
but still, before the riffs were single note riffs. Mostly. And Citadel is a heavy chord riff.Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 8, 2012 18:04
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
His MajestyQuote
Redhotcarpet
Isnt Citadel in some ways the Stones answer to Sgt Pepper, the opening track, and Hendrix? Not a rip off or anything like that, just an attempt at the harder heavier style.
They already did such stuff before Hendrix or Pepper.
Yeah ok
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: August 8, 2012 18:13
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
His MajestyQuote
Redhotcarpet
Isnt Citadel in some ways the Stones answer to Sgt Pepper, the opening track, and Hendrix? Not a rip off or anything like that, just an attempt at the harder heavier style.
They already did such stuff before Hendrix or Pepper.
Yeah ok
Love Mick's vocal on this. Is that Brian and Bill singing backup?
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
tonterapi
()
Date: August 8, 2012 19:29
Well, I'm guilty to that as well and have been for 16 years now.Quote
His Majesty
Amateur musician and geek for info about 1966 - 1968 stones gear etc.
For those that want that era's sound in a new, but small, relativley cheap package you should buy a ZT Lunchbox amp. For what ever reason, it's basic sound is very similar to the solid state vox's the stones used during 1967 - 1968.
Listened to some ZT demos on YT. It does have that sound in it. Pretty cool.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: August 8, 2012 22:46
Quote
His MajestyQuote
tonterapiHow about "nerd".Quote
Silver Dagger
Phil, how the hell do you know all this stuff? What do you do? Are you an engineer / musician?
Amateur musician and geek for info about 1966 - 1968 stones gear etc.
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 8, 2012 23:28
Quote
Silver Dagger
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
I have a load of guitar pedal demos here: [www.youtube.com]
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: August 8, 2012 23:35
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Silver Dagger
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
I have a load of guitar pedal demos here: [www.youtube.com]
How did the Magical Mystery Box compare to a genuine Supreme? I still can't find a Supreme, so maybe this box is an option?
Mathijs
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 8, 2012 23:37
Quote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
Silver Dagger
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
I have a load of guitar pedal demos here: [www.youtube.com]
How did the Magical Mystery Box compare to a genuine Supreme? I still can't find a Supreme, so maybe this box is an option?
Mathijs
It's the Brilliant Channel of those amps, pretty much spot on.
If yah didn't like the Conqueror so much, why do you want a Supreme?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 23:42 by His Majesty.
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: August 8, 2012 23:50
Quote
His MajestyQuote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
Silver Dagger
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
I have a load of guitar pedal demos here: [www.youtube.com]
How did the Magical Mystery Box compare to a genuine Supreme? I still can't find a Supreme, so maybe this box is an option?
Mathijs
It's the Brilliant Channel of those amps, pretty much spot on.
If yah didn't like the Conqueror so much, why do you want a Supreme?
Well, at that time I had so many guitars and amps I wanted to clean out the gear I mainly had from a collectors point of view, and only wanted to keep the stuff I really used in the bands I was in. Now most is gone, but there is some gear I regret I sold. The Conqueror is one fo them, as a '63 Humingbird and a 60's Tele that was really, really good. Oh well.
Mathijs
Re: Citadel -Love this track
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: August 8, 2012 23:51
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Silver Dagger
Be great to hear some of you stuff Phil. Got anything you fancy sharing here?
I have a load of guitar pedal demos here: [www.youtube.com]
Like the Danelectro demo.
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