What a great track. Would love to see this as a show opener. I love the way Bill's bass sounds and what is that high pitch sound that comes in every now and then?

they nailed on the '85 tour, i thought. can't believe it has disappeared from the set sincce...

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StonesTod
they nailed on the '85 tour, i thought. can't believe it has disappeared from the set sincce...

wut?

It is a great track. It amazes me that they didn't continue down that path of heaviness for that album. Instead they did such drivel as Gomper, Sing This All Together. At least 2000 Man was just as good.

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punkfloyd

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StonesTod
they nailed on the '85 tour, i thought. can't believe it has disappeared from the set since...

wut?

what wut? you didn't like it on that tour?

I thought Citadel sounded tighter on the '86 Euro leg of the tour.

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ryanpow
I thought Citadel sounded tighter on the '86 Euro leg of the tour.

perhaps, but when the london philharmonic joined them for the instrumental break on the british jaunt, it lost all credibility....

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StonesTod

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ryanpow
I thought Citadel sounded tighter on the '86 Euro leg of the tour.

perhaps, but when the london philharmonic joined them for the instrumental break on the british jaunt, it lost all credibility....

You obviously missed the secret 1987 show - the end of the tour. They even played a show for Coke's new formula party - a bit late, as the Stones are wont to do with trends.

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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StonesTod

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ryanpow
I thought Citadel sounded tighter on the '86 Euro leg of the tour.

perhaps, but when the london philharmonic joined them for the instrumental break on the british jaunt, it lost all credibility....

You obviously missed the secret 1987 show - the end of the tour. They even played a show for Coke's new formula party - a bit late, as the Stones are wont to do with trends.

well it's no secret anymore, skippy...i imagine the stones will be in contact with you shortly....

An Indescribably unique tune exemplifying perfectly the musical atmosphere of 1967....good job Stones, from one of the minority who likes TSMR so much better than Sgt. Pepper, with no disrespect to the Beatles, just a matter of taste. Like, like, LIKE "2000 Man" also, those lyrics were very prophetic, way ahead of their time.

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Blue
An Indescribably unique tune exemplifying perfectly the musical atmosphere of 1967....good job Stones, from one of the minority who likes TSMR so much better than Sgt. Pepper, with no disrespect to the Beatles, just a matter of taste. Like, like, LIKE "2000 Man" also, those lyrics were very prophetic, way ahead of their time.

well, a song with that title written in '67 would kinda sorta hafta be ahead of its time, no?

I remember my older brother playing this when I was a kid, I still have his vinyl with the reticulated cover. And I remember thinking: 'these guys aren't the Beatles...this is dangerous stuff'

I was a fan from then on.

reticulated? i only have the 3d cover....

I think it is terrible. That era, with the ridiculous garb and attempts to copy the sounds of the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper, is the lost era of the Stones, as far as I am concerned. I can only snicker when I force myself to listen to it. I counted 3 chords in the entire song.

Oh well, to each his own.

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StonesTod

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Blue
An Indescribably unique tune exemplifying perfectly the musical atmosphere of 1967....good job Stones, from one of the minority who likes TSMR so much better than Sgt. Pepper, with no disrespect to the Beatles, just a matter of taste. Like, like, LIKE "2000 Man" also, those lyrics were very prophetic, way ahead of their time.

well, a song with that title written in '67 would kinda sorta hafta be ahead of its time, no?

Well....good point!

..'on with the show' is not exactly this years theme, but it is an innoccous little ditty nonetheless notwithstanding heretofore ergo I.E. e.g. etc.etc. ....

Great, great track! The embroyo of what was to become Keith's signature playing style - only this is meaner and heavier than that

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DandelionPowderman
Great, great track! The embroyo of what was to become Keith's signature playing style - only this is meaner and heavier than that

Exactly. Keith is really getting there somewhere, as we can in hindsight say. There is much more, say, "Jumpin' Jack Flash" than "Sing This All Together" in it.

Anyways, "Citadel" represents very much what it so important and valuable in SATANIC MAJESTIES experiment - no, I can never call it a masterpiece, but I see the album as a necessary delopment in getting rid of the old pop format they mastered in AFTERMATH and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS. Here they free their minds and start really digging the whole idea of a song and a form. Most of it is kind of deconstruction - call it psychedelia if you like - but I think that was kind of needed to in order to find the focus, maturity and tightness they achieved in BEGGARS BANQUET. Getting rid of ALO, and trusting 'blindly' their own artistic muse was I guess necessary, even though a pro produder like Jimmy Miller was needed in order to find the right track and cohesion again. But shit, "Citadel" with "2000 Man", "She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" are simply phenomenal songs as they are, and almost all the tracks have some incredibly intersting and potential features in them that makes them rewarding and fascinating listening experience again and again. SATANIC MAJESTIES has depth in it that most of their catalog can only dream of.

I really love the atmosphere of "Citadel" - there is something I find so unique Stones-like in it that I would much rather listen to it than anything on SGT. PEPPER (which says more of me than of the greatness of the music). Maybe it is that mystique feeling of danger I find so fascinating.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-06 11:32 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
Great, great track! The embroyo of what was to become Keith's signature playing style - only this is meaner and heavier than that

Exactly. Keith is really getting there somewhere, as we can in hindsight say. There is much more, say, "Jumpin' Jack Flash" than "Sing This All Together" in it.

Anyways, "Citadel" represents very much what it so important and valuable in SATANIC MAJESTIES experiment - no, I can nevr call it a masterpiece, but I see the album as a neceassary delopment in getting rid of teh old pop format they mastered in AFTERMATH and BETWEEN THE BUTTONS. Here they free their minds and start really start digging the whole idea of a song and a form. Most of it is kind of deconstruction - call it psychedelia if you like - but I think that was kind of needed to in order to find the focus, maturity and tightness they achieved in BEGGARS BANQUET. Getting rid of ALO, and trusting 'blindly' their own artistic muse was I guess necessary, even though a pro produder like Jimmy Miller was needed in order to find the right track again. But shit, "Citadel" with "2000 Man", "She's A Rainbow" and "2000 Light Years From Home" are are simply phenomenal songs as they are, and almost all the tracks have some incredibly intersting and poteantial features in them that makes them rewarding and fascinating listening again and again. SATANIC MAJESTIES has depth in it that most of their catalog can only dream of.

I really love the atmosphere of "Citadel" - there is something I find so unique Stones-like in it that I would much rather listen to it than anything on SGT. PEPPER (which says more of me than of the greatness of the music). Maybe it is that mystique feeling of danger I find so fascinating.

- Doxa

Right on, brother!

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StonesTod
they nailed on the '85 tour, i thought. can't believe it has disappeared from the set sincce...

Not true! It was a frequent encore on their 2010-2011 world tour. You didn't leave the shows early, did you?

Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

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Silver Dagger
Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

I take it you mean Stray Cat Blues?

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DandelionPowderman

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Silver Dagger
Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

I take it you mean Stray Cat Blues?

Actually both of the songs Dandy. I know what you mean, the fade out of Stray Cat Blues especially has that crazy jangling sound. But I mean the overall flightiness and atmospherics of his guitar on Jigsaw Puzzle. It's got a kind of Syd Barrett quality. Lots of high end playing.

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Silver Dagger

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DandelionPowderman

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Silver Dagger
Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

I take it you mean Stray Cat Blues?

Actually both of the songs Dandy. I know what you mean, the fade out of Stray Cat Blues especially has that crazy jangling sound. But I mean the overall flightiness and atmospherics of his guitar on Jigsaw Puzzle. It's got a kind of Syd Barrett quality. Lots of high end playing.

Yep, uniqe guitar sound (in both cases).

Songs like All Sold Out and Child Of The Moon have that sound as well. Partly, the electric part of 2000 Man, too.

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DandelionPowderman

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Silver Dagger

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DandelionPowderman

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Silver Dagger
Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

I take it you mean Stray Cat Blues?

Actually both of the songs Dandy. I know what you mean, the fade out of Stray Cat Blues especially has that crazy jangling sound. But I mean the overall flightiness and atmospherics of his guitar on Jigsaw Puzzle. It's got a kind of Syd Barrett quality. Lots of high end playing.

Yep, uniqe guitar sound (in both cases).

Songs like All Sold Out and Child Of The Moon have that sound as well. Partly, the electric part of 2000 Man, too.

You're a guitarist Dandy. How do you get that kind of trebly ringing sound. What guitars, amps and settings would he have used?

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Silver Dagger

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DandelionPowderman

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Silver Dagger

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DandelionPowderman

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Silver Dagger
Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

I take it you mean Stray Cat Blues?

Actually both of the songs Dandy. I know what you mean, the fade out of Stray Cat Blues especially has that crazy jangling sound. But I mean the overall flightiness and atmospherics of his guitar on Jigsaw Puzzle. It's got a kind of Syd Barrett quality. Lots of high end playing.

Yep, uniqe guitar sound (in both cases).

Songs like All Sold Out and Child Of The Moon have that sound as well. Partly, the electric part of 2000 Man, too.

You're a guitarist Dandy. How do you get that kind of trebly ringing sound. What guitars, amps and settings would he have used?

If I only knew that!!

You need a VOX and lots of treble, but the rest beats me. I bet Philip (His Majesty) know a lot about this. I'm a Hi-Watt man myself.

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flilflam
I think it is terrible. That era, with the ridiculous garb and attempts to copy the sounds of the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper, is the lost era of the Stones, as far as I am concerned. I can only snicker when I force myself to listen to it. I counted 3 chords in the entire song.

Oh well, to each his own.

Then I won't ask what you think about Gomper!

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Silver Dagger
Doxa is correct in his analysis. The song has real atmosphere, an other worldly eeriness that actually pervades the whole album. This is what always made TSMR so fascinating for me, especially as a kid when I first saw the cover with all its myriad colours, and totally spaced out images.

It's a musical science fiction fantasy - with lyrics borne right out of Forbidden Planet, It Came From Outer Space and other classic sci-fi movies which so captivated the baby boomer generation.

And there's a really unusual bell-like shimmering sound on Keith's guitar. Never worked out how he achieved but it sounds brilliant and he never quite replicated it although there are echoes of it on Jigsaw Puzzle.

Nice analysis (and also Doxa's). Been listening to TSMR since 1967 (still have the original album/cover) and love it just as much now as then.

As a side note, when my older brother was serving in the VietNam war in 1970, he asked me to record an album on cassette and send it to him. Well I choose this one and he later told me of his buddy's and him sitting around and getting stoned while listening to this. Hey it's the least I could do for their efforts!

OK so that high pitched (bell) sound did come from Keith's guitar. I'm also interested in how he did this...

From Andy Warhol's book POPISM: THE WARHOL 60'S by Andy Warhol and Pat Hackett, p. 250-51:

WARHOL: "Candy Darling...and Jackie started coming by Max's a lot—they weren't getting ignored and put upstairs any longer. In November the Stones' album Their Satanic Majesties Request was just out. Candy and I were in the back room at the round table together, and when CITADEL came on the juke box, she said, `Oh, listen. This is the song Mick wrote about me and my girlfriend Taffy. Listen to the words!' Taffy was another drag queen around town, but I hadn't met her yet. Candy didn't care one bit about rock and roll—her mind was always back in the thirties and forties and the cinema fifties—so it was really strange to hear her use her Kim Novak voice to talk about rock lyrics. Since I could never understand a thing over those really loud sound systems, I asked her what the words were saying.

"`Here it comes now! Listen! "Candy and Taffy/Hope you both are well/Please come see me/In the Citadel." Did you HEAR it? We met them in the Hotel Albert.' The Albert was a cheap hotel down on 10th Street and Fifth Avenue. `We were on the floor above them and we dangled a bunch of grapes down on a string outside their window. You see, the Citadel is New York and the song is a message to US—Taffy and me.'

"`Then how come you didn't say hello to Mick that night at Salvation?'

"`I was too embarrassed.' Candy said, `because I can't tell those Stones apart. Which one is Mick?'"

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Title5Take1
From Andy Warhol's book POPISM: THE WARHOL 60'S by Andy Warhol and Pat Hackett, p. 250-51:

WARHOL: "Candy Darling...and Jackie started coming by Max's a lot—they weren't getting ignored and put upstairs any longer. In November the Stones' album Their Satanic Majesties Request was just out. Candy and I were in the back room at the round table together, and when CITADEL came on the juke box, she said, `Oh, listen. This is the song Mick wrote about me and my girlfriend Taffy. Listen to the words!' Taffy was another drag queen around town, but I hadn't met her yet. Candy didn't care one bit about rock and roll—her mind was always back in the thirties and forties and the cinema fifties—so it was really strange to hear her use her Kim Novak voice to talk about rock lyrics. Since I could never understand a thing over those really loud sound systems, I asked her what the words were saying.

"`Here it comes now! Listen! "Candy and Taffy/Hope you both are well/Please come see me/In the Citadel." Did you HEAR it? We met them in the Hotel Albert.' The Albert was a cheap hotel down on 10th Street and Fifth Avenue. `We were on the floor above them and we dangled a bunch of grapes down on a string outside their window. You see, the Citadel is New York and the song is a message to US—Taffy and me.'

"`Then how come you didn't say hello to Mick that night at Salvation?'

"`I was too embarrassed.' Candy said, `because I can't tell those Stones apart. Which one is Mick?'"

I read that story too but I don't think that the Stones would have had any connection with Candy Darling of the Velvet Undergroun's Candy Says fame.

I heard somewhere that Cathy was Cathy McGowan, the compere on Ready Steady Go, who was friends with the band. I think Candy just provided Mick with some nice alliteration to fit the lyrics but who knows?