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Justin

I'll tell you why it's all been bothering me...

I apologize if Ive been snipey. I"m all for everyone's opinion---that's why we're here. But that doesn't have to stop me from reacting to it--especially when it's become quite unbearable around here for a while.

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Tumblin_Dice_07
I post here sometimes and I probably get on here 2 to 4 times a week to see what's going on. I'm not really sure what's so "unbearable" here. I guess that's why I don't understand the angst being voiced here.

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MuddyJaggrich
Seems like a fake! Compare the "light the fuse" cover with the logo on the Hampton cover! I think the tongue on that is taken from the Hampton cover.

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Tumblin_Dice_07
.... Alot of people are fairly negative. And alot of people bash other fans who don't share their opinions. But I don't "live" here. I'm not forced to put up with it. I don't read every thread. In fact, I probably only read 1/4th of the threads that get posted here, if that. There's so much BS on this board (and any other board) that I don't bother to read, much less get involved, in 90% of it. I guess that's why I don't understand the angst being voiced here.

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Tumblin_Dice_07
I didn't wanna quote all that again. I post here sometimes and I probably get on here 2 to 4 times a week to see what's going on. I'm not really sure what's so "unbearable" here. Alot of people are fairly negative. And alot of people bash other fans who don't share their opinions. But I don't "live" here. I'm not forced to put up with it. I don't read every thread. In fact, I probably only read 1/4th of the threads that get posted here, if that. There's so much BS on this board (and any other board) that I don't bother to read, much less get involved, in 90% of it. I guess that's why I don't understand the angst being voiced here.

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MuddyJaggrich
Seems like a fake! Compare the "light the fuse" cover with the logo on the Hampton cover! I think the tongue on that is taken from the Hampton cover.

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alimente

Well said, Doxa. The problem with the "modern-era" Stones in a nutshell is that, for example, covers like Mr. Pitiful or Get Up, Stand Up could be Mick Jagger backed by anyone - the SNL houseband, the Hall % Oates Orchestra,

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His Majesty
What a whole lotta fuss about nothing.

If this is indeed what the next release will be, atleast it's something different from what we expected.

I'm no fan of this period, but the youtube clips from the gig show them feeling good and excited.

...

There's clearly a standard of multi-track sound quality being followed with these stonesarchive releases. So, my fellow Jones era fanatics, it's best not to expect anything from that time because of the more limited technology, crazy audiences etc making it unlikley recordings of same kind of quality exist.

I think I'll faint if they do go and release something from that time.

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

There's clearly a standard of multi-track sound quality being followed with these stonesarchive releases. So, my fellow Jones era fanatics, it's best not to expect anything from that time because of the more limited technology, crazy audiences etc making it unlikley recordings of same kind of quality exist.

I think I'll faint if they do go and release something from that time.

I would be fine with a generally tweaked (doesn't have to be multitrack) radio show from the Brian era

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Doxa

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Justin

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Doxa
The Stones are creatively speaking dead and live just in nostalgia they reproduce with latest stage technology.

...and that's the impression you get even when they do a club show for a hundred people?

The Stones are hostages in their own legacy. Why bother making new music when A) fans will pay ridiculous amounts of money to see them play all the same shite anyway B ) the fans crap on every new song they write C) fans want every new album to be the next Exile. The "nostalgia" is a corner we've all painted them in. They're lucky they can still play JJF because that's the only they give us at this point.

I'm sort of amused that anyone is still treating them as if they're some kind of working band today. They're not. Creatively dead? Well obviously. But after fifty years...what else is there to do? You look at all the issues this band has got going: two primary songwriters that don't work closely together anymore, Mick a guy who's heart is really in other things besides the Stones, a guitar player who is suffering from arthritis and some effects of a head injury...this is a team that's been falling apart.

And in the end I say to all this: who really cares? I don't take any of this stuff seriously anymore. They gave me what I needed and I am completely content. I have no more room. I needed to come to terms with that in order to accept the present. By doing that, all the anger and hostility towards the band faded. When I realized that I didn't need MORE from this band--the scars healed.

Keith's BS, his lazy playing this, that, and the other...who cares anymore? It's all over folks. Anything coming up at this point is a victory lap. Who in the hell would "boo" a runner taking his victory lap after a long, battered race? "BOO!! You suck now! GO HOME!" Arm chair critics is all it is.

The fine line between critics and fan boys is becoming more and more defined around here. The fashionable thing to do is to return the same amount of crap Keith dished out in the last few years and in doing so apparently is some kind of therapeutic cleansing for fans. So...whatever floats your boat!

I think you quite accurately describe the non-relevance of the Vegas Era Stones compared to teh relavance of non-Vegas Stones. I personally think that the time since 1989, and especially since LICKS TOUR has been an extra time given for the band and its fans, but there is not any longer anything to add to the real story. Just the longest farewell/celebration tour ever done (it sarted in 1989). I have enjoyed a lot going to Rolling Stones concerts, seeing my old heroes once again and once agian and once again alive, and meeting other Stones fans, and just having a great time, full of nostalgia, of course. But that's it. Due its non-evolving nature, repeative nature, every concert is about another version of the same concept (the players just getting worse by the years) there is nothing to write home about - that is: to listen it again in the form of some live document. They do not anymore offer musical adventures I get excited in listening at home; juts don't have any longer that "once in a life time" hectic moments of glory, to share that makes one want to listen them again and again.

It's totally different thing when listening bootlegs from their creative, evolving yaers. Almost every concert, every damn lick Keith, Taylor or Ronnie did (not to forget Brian), every Bill & Charlie moment, every Jagger scream, sounded like they were in a process of reaching somewhere they didn't know, nor did us. But they were in a creative process all the time. Moving forwards. No matter how sloppy, now much mistakes they did, it was always exciting. That's something I haven't heard during the Vegas era. I might listen some concert of theirs - I prefer watching - but I never re-listen it again, no matter how "exciting" the set list might be. The question for me is only just (a) being there present and having the experience, or (b) listening it afterwards once, and that's it. I don't feel like owning music that I know I will only listen once in my life. The difference between subjective experience being in concert and listening it 'objectively' afterwards is too big these days, and I rather skip the latter.

That's why I am not much interested in listening to any documents of any Vegas era shows, no matter how 'rare' it is (club, unusual set list, etc.). I guess this new bootleg is great by modern standards because it is an expection to a rule (somehow). But that's not enough for me. I don't download modern shows even for free, so why should I pay for that?

But I hope some "fans" quit their habit of calling names fellow fans who don't think alike. This is not a case of being "foolish" or not. Justin, I have wanted to ask you this for some time, and I do it now: you make wonderful, insightful posts here but why do the personal opinions of fellow Stones fans matter to you so much that you need start bashing them way too often?

- Doxa

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Paul Kersey

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Doxa

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Justin

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Doxa
The Stones are creatively speaking dead and live just in nostalgia they reproduce with latest stage technology.

...and that's the impression you get even when they do a club show for a hundred people?

The Stones are hostages in their own legacy. Why bother making new music when A) fans will pay ridiculous amounts of money to see them play all the same shite anyway B ) the fans crap on every new song they write C) fans want every new album to be the next Exile. The "nostalgia" is a corner we've all painted them in. They're lucky they can still play JJF because that's the only they give us at this point.

I'm sort of amused that anyone is still treating them as if they're some kind of working band today. They're not. Creatively dead? Well obviously. But after fifty years...what else is there to do? You look at all the issues this band has got going: two primary songwriters that don't work closely together anymore, Mick a guy who's heart is really in other things besides the Stones, a guitar player who is suffering from arthritis and some effects of a head injury...this is a team that's been falling apart.

And in the end I say to all this: who really cares? I don't take any of this stuff seriously anymore. They gave me what I needed and I am completely content. I have no more room. I needed to come to terms with that in order to accept the present. By doing that, all the anger and hostility towards the band faded. When I realized that I didn't need MORE from this band--the scars healed.

Keith's BS, his lazy playing this, that, and the other...who cares anymore? It's all over folks. Anything coming up at this point is a victory lap. Who in the hell would "boo" a runner taking his victory lap after a long, battered race? "BOO!! You suck now! GO HOME!" Arm chair critics is all it is.

The fine line between critics and fan boys is becoming more and more defined around here. The fashionable thing to do is to return the same amount of crap Keith dished out in the last few years and in doing so apparently is some kind of therapeutic cleansing for fans. So...whatever floats your boat!

I think you quite accurately describe the non-relevance of the Vegas Era Stones compared to teh relavance of non-Vegas Stones. I personally think that the time since 1989, and especially since LICKS TOUR has been an extra time given for the band and its fans, but there is not any longer anything to add to the real story. Just the longest farewell/celebration tour ever done (it sarted in 1989). I have enjoyed a lot going to Rolling Stones concerts, seeing my old heroes once again and once agian and once again alive, and meeting other Stones fans, and just having a great time, full of nostalgia, of course. But that's it. Due its non-evolving nature, repeative nature, every concert is about another version of the same concept (the players just getting worse by the years) there is nothing to write home about - that is: to listen it again in the form of some live document. They do not anymore offer musical adventures I get excited in listening at home; juts don't have any longer that "once in a life time" hectic moments of glory, to share that makes one want to listen them again and again.

It's totally different thing when listening bootlegs from their creative, evolving yaers. Almost every concert, every damn lick Keith, Taylor or Ronnie did (not to forget Brian), every Bill & Charlie moment, every Jagger scream, sounded like they were in a process of reaching somewhere they didn't know, nor did us. But they were in a creative process all the time. Moving forwards. No matter how sloppy, now much mistakes they did, it was always exciting. That's something I haven't heard during the Vegas era. I might listen some concert of theirs - I prefer watching - but I never re-listen it again, no matter how "exciting" the set list might be. The question for me is only just (a) being there present and having the experience, or (b) listening it afterwards once, and that's it. I don't feel like owning music that I know I will only listen once in my life. The difference between subjective experience being in concert and listening it 'objectively' afterwards is too big these days, and I rather skip the latter.

That's why I am not much interested in listening to any documents of any Vegas era shows, no matter how 'rare' it is (club, unusual set list, etc.). I guess this new bootleg is great by modern standards because it is an expection to a rule (somehow). But that's not enough for me. I don't download modern shows even for free, so why should I pay for that?

But I hope some "fans" quit their habit of calling names fellow fans who don't think alike. This is not a case of being "foolish" or not. Justin, I have wanted to ask you this for some time, and I do it now: you make wonderful, insightful posts here but why do the personal opinions of fellow Stones fans matter to you so much that you need start bashing them way too often?

- Doxa

Doxa

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Doxa

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Justin

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Doxa
The Stones are creatively speaking dead and live just in nostalgia they reproduce with latest stage technology.

...and that's the impression you get even when they do a club show for a hundred people?

The Stones are hostages in their own legacy. Why bother making new music when A) fans will pay ridiculous amounts of money to see them play all the same shite anyway B ) the fans crap on every new song they write C) fans want every new album to be the next Exile. The "nostalgia" is a corner we've all painted them in. They're lucky they can still play JJF because that's the only they give us at this point.

I'm sort of amused that anyone is still treating them as if they're some kind of working band today. They're not. Creatively dead? Well obviously. But after fifty years...what else is there to do? You look at all the issues this band has got going: two primary songwriters that don't work closely together anymore, Mick a guy who's heart is really in other things besides the Stones, a guitar player who is suffering from arthritis and some effects of a head injury...this is a team that's been falling apart.

And in the end I say to all this: who really cares? I don't take any of this stuff seriously anymore. They gave me what I needed and I am completely content. I have no more room. I needed to come to terms with that in order to accept the present. By doing that, all the anger and hostility towards the band faded. When I realized that I didn't need MORE from this band--the scars healed.

Keith's BS, his lazy playing this, that, and the other...who cares anymore? It's all over folks. Anything coming up at this point is a victory lap. Who in the hell would "boo" a runner taking his victory lap after a long, battered race? "BOO!! You suck now! GO HOME!" Arm chair critics is all it is.

The fine line between critics and fan boys is becoming more and more defined around here. The fashionable thing to do is to return the same amount of crap Keith dished out in the last few years and in doing so apparently is some kind of therapeutic cleansing for fans. So...whatever floats your boat!

I think you quite accurately describe the non-relevance of the Vegas Era Stones compared to teh relavance of non-Vegas Stones. I personally think that the time since 1989, and especially since LICKS TOUR has been an extra time given for the band and its fans, but there is not any longer anything to add to the real story. Just the longest farewell/celebration tour ever done (it sarted in 1989). I have enjoyed a lot going to Rolling Stones concerts, seeing my old heroes once again and once agian and once again alive, and meeting other Stones fans, and just having a great time, full of nostalgia, of course. But that's it. Due its non-evolving nature, repeative nature, every concert is about another version of the same concept (the players just getting worse by the years) there is nothing to write home about - that is: to listen it again in the form of some live document. They do not anymore offer musical adventures I get excited in listening at home; juts don't have any longer that "once in a life time" hectic moments of glory, to share that makes one want to listen them again and again.

It's totally different thing when listening bootlegs from their creative, evolving yaers. Almost every concert, every damn lick Keith, Taylor or Ronnie did (not to forget Brian), every Bill & Charlie moment, every Jagger scream, sounded like they were in a process of reaching somewhere they didn't know, nor did us. But they were in a creative process all the time. Moving forwards. No matter how sloppy, now much mistakes they did, it was always exciting. That's something I haven't heard during the Vegas era. I might listen some concert of theirs - I prefer watching - but I never re-listen it again, no matter how "exciting" the set list might be. The question for me is only just (a) being there present and having the experience, or (b) listening it afterwards once, and that's it. I don't feel like owning music that I know I will only listen once in my life. The difference between subjective experience being in concert and listening it 'objectively' afterwards is too big these days, and I rather skip the latter.

That's why I am not much interested in listening to any documents of any Vegas era shows, no matter how 'rare' it is (club, unusual set list, etc.). I guess this new bootleg is great by modern standards because it is an expection to a rule (somehow). But that's not enough for me. I don't download modern shows even for free, so why should I pay for that?

But I hope some "fans" quit their habit of calling names fellow fans who don't think alike. This is not a case of being "foolish" or not. Justin, I have wanted to ask you this for some time, and I do it now: you make wonderful, insightful posts here but why do the personal opinions of fellow Stones fans matter to you so much that you need start bashing them way too often?

- Doxa

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falo01
wow this is definetly the BS thread of the century !

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His Majesty
For me it's the syle of writing, the production and sounds, but also the feel of how they play. They have era's with different members, different production ideals, different everything nearly. Some same people, but those people and their tastes have went to a place which I don't like so much.

How they were in sixties just grooves with me, I can appreciate how they went on and developed, but what they evolved in to simply doesn't move me... There are exceptions of course.

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
For me it's the syle of writing, the production and sounds, but also the feel of how they play. They have era's with different members, different production ideals, different everything nearly. Some same people, but those people and their tastes have went to a place which I don't like so much.

How they were in sixties just grooves with me, I can appreciate how they went on and developed, but what they evolved in to simply doesn't move me... There are exceptions of course.

Now many of us wonder what those exceptions are. At least I do.

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Slick

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Gazza

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Slick

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Gazza

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Slick
disagree. if they sell a lot of this vegas show, you will only end up getting more vegas shows. best to completely boycott this trash, then they will realize that the vintage shows are what the true fans want.

Who on this board or anywhere is qualified to speak for what makes a 'true fan' or second guess what 'true fans' want?

You're missing the whole point of this archives series, which is, as far as I can see, to open their vaults and release shows from different periods of their 50-year career. To limit these releases to a span of about 10-12 years defeats the entire purpose, and to ignore totally a period which takes up almost half of the era the band has existed is nonsensical.

If you dont want it, dont buy it. There are fans here who think the '78 and '81 periods are bloody awful - should the Stones have pandered to their demands as well? Not every 'true fan' is going to love every era or every tour - if you read some of the stuff on this site, you'd be forgiven for thinking the Stones didnt exist until 1968. Should the band ignore the period before that year too because there arent enough 'true fans' left who will appreciate a release with Brian Jones?

alright i will scratch 'true' fans and substitute that with 'old school' fans.... and i do think they risk losing a lot of goodwill recently generated amongst the old school fans by radically jumping forward AGAIN into light-weight, watered-down stones, as there are already TONS of released material from the vegas years.

'Jumping forward again'?

This is the first release from that era in this series.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Stones should just ignore the entire second half of their career in a series of releases that are supposed to mark their entire career - and forget about the fact that for many of their fanbase, that era represents the only era they know? Just because some fans look down on it as inferior?

Neither the 'old school fans' (and where does that era begin and end anyway? 1969? 1974? 1982? 1990?) or 'modern era fans' have any right to monopolise anything, expect to have all their whims and tastes catered for or dictate anything to any artist.

Bottom line is that it isn't all about you, me or any 'section' of fans.

It wouldn't be my personal choice of era to highlight, but once any artist allows a select group of fans to dictate the definition of what parts of their oeuvre is 'good' or 'bad' then they lose all control over their work, cease to deserve to be regarded as artists and may as well give up.

four flicks & biggest bang box sets, flashpoint, live licks, live at the max, st louis 97 dvd, miami 94 dvd, live security, shine a light. i think thats all of them; youve heard one of these shows, youve heard them all, jaggers phrasing never changes & the big band sounds the same.

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falo01
wow this is definetly the BS thread of the century !