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Silver Dagger

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kleermaker

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Silver Dagger

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thrak
Is this topic about football or Second WW ? Anyway don't believe Sol Cambell when he's telling about racism in Poland. No one is gonna hurt, you'll see. This BBC document is very very very different from what is reality. Polish people don;t have problems with jews, black or anyone. Of course we have problems with hooligans but who hasn't ? England, Germany, Russia, Italy - there's plenty of fights between club gangs. But polish hooligans fight only with themselves and practicly never on stadiums. I've never seen that football hooligan hurt anyone on the street. It's all a hot news for tv and press but on the street it's different. So don't worry and come to Poland.

I think Italy will win it. The Black Horse of tournament will be Czech Rep.

Er, it's about football thrak.

You're right Silver, but someone started to talk about other things and I don't think that's wrong. We won't enter into long political discussions, but we can't pretend that sport (football included) and politics are totally separated, because they go hand in hand as we all know.

One relevant example. All Dutch politicians and many foreign ones (the French president for instance) have said that they won't go to the EK because of the way former Ukrainian prime minister and oil baroness Joelija Timosjenko is treated during her detention. So here we are: our national teams are officially representing 'our' sovereign nations while 'our' political leaders (also officially representing 'our' nations) say: We have nothing to do with this event! That feels kinda contradictory if you know what I mean.

And now we have these phenomena of hooligans and extreme right gangs in relation to this EK. Some say: I prefer the extreme right gangs, because the hooligans are ruining football. Others (like me for instance) also aren't fond of hooligans, but do consider violent extreme right gangs as a much bigger threat. So it's not realistic to expect people to avoid these things totally.

But I agree that it shouldn't spoil the fun, though my sympathy with the footballing millionaires or millionaire footballers (I don't know if they are in the first place millionaires or football players) is diminishing during the last decades. Besides I think the whole item of nationalism or chauvinism is a somewhat awkward thing these days when we see a disintegrating Europe.

Last but not least: in the good old Roman days they had 'panem et circenses', which means something like We (the rich and mighty) give the people 'bread and games' to keep them quiet, dumb and docile. Well, where's the bread now? We have an economic recession and growing unemployment, but the games always go on, no matter at what costs. Somehow I have the feeling they are fooling us.

So my enthusiasm for the Dutch team isn't that big anymore. I'm supporting the Greek team now. Most Greeks can use some fun these days.

Yes, but the whole point is this website is not a political platform for people to stand on their soapboxes and mouth off. We all know only too well what happens when discussions get out of hand. Threads get cancelled. All I'm hoping for is that we can have an interesting discussion about the Euro 2012 soccer tournament about to start in 10 days without it getting shut down. Something that can bring IORR members from all over Europe, and the World together to discuss something they like.

In the past we have had some fantastic threads about football and I'm hoping we can have one again.

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kleermaker

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Silver Dagger

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kleermaker

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Silver Dagger

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thrak
Is this topic about football or Second WW ? Anyway don't believe Sol Cambell when he's telling about racism in Poland. No one is gonna hurt, you'll see. This BBC document is very very very different from what is reality. Polish people don;t have problems with jews, black or anyone. Of course we have problems with hooligans but who hasn't ? England, Germany, Russia, Italy - there's plenty of fights between club gangs. But polish hooligans fight only with themselves and practicly never on stadiums. I've never seen that football hooligan hurt anyone on the street. It's all a hot news for tv and press but on the street it's different. So don't worry and come to Poland.

I think Italy will win it. The Black Horse of tournament will be Czech Rep.

Er, it's about football thrak.

You're right Silver, but someone started to talk about other things and I don't think that's wrong. We won't enter into long political discussions, but we can't pretend that sport (football included) and politics are totally separated, because they go hand in hand as we all know.

One relevant example. All Dutch politicians and many foreign ones (the French president for instance) have said that they won't go to the EK because of the way former Ukrainian prime minister and oil baroness Joelija Timosjenko is treated during her detention. So here we are: our national teams are officially representing 'our' sovereign nations while 'our' political leaders (also officially representing 'our' nations) say: We have nothing to do with this event! That feels kinda contradictory if you know what I mean.

And now we have these phenomena of hooligans and extreme right gangs in relation to this EK. Some say: I prefer the extreme right gangs, because the hooligans are ruining football. Others (like me for instance) also aren't fond of hooligans, but do consider violent extreme right gangs as a much bigger threat. So it's not realistic to expect people to avoid these things totally.

But I agree that it shouldn't spoil the fun, though my sympathy with the footballing millionaires or millionaire footballers (I don't know if they are in the first place millionaires or football players) is diminishing during the last decades. Besides I think the whole item of nationalism or chauvinism is a somewhat awkward thing these days when we see a disintegrating Europe.

Last but not least: in the good old Roman days they had 'panem et circenses', which means something like We (the rich and mighty) give the people 'bread and games' to keep them quiet, dumb and docile. Well, where's the bread now? We have an economic recession and growing unemployment, but the games always go on, no matter at what costs. Somehow I have the feeling they are fooling us.

So my enthusiasm for the Dutch team isn't that big anymore. I'm supporting the Greek team now. Most Greeks can use some fun these days.

Yes, but the whole point is this website is not a political platform for people to stand on their soapboxes and mouth off. We all know only too well what happens when discussions get out of hand. Threads get cancelled. All I'm hoping for is that we can have an interesting discussion about the Euro 2012 soccer tournament about to start in 10 days without it getting shut down. Something that can bring IORR members from all over Europe, and the World together to discuss something they like.

In the past we have had some fantastic threads about football and I'm hoping we can have one again.

The trick is to start a thread like this not earlier than the first day before the tournament begins, so that there's no time for anything other than the tournament itself .

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Rolling Hansie
IORR EC 2012 POOL

Because the last WC pool was so much fun I created one for IORRians for this EC.

Go to www.ecpool.com
Click on the "register" button
Where it says "choose an existing pool you want to participate in:" you fill in IORR EC 2012
Fill in the details and click on "complete registration"

The site is available in English, Dutch and German language.
Good luck and have fun

Edit: Easier way to sign up [www.ekpoultje.nl]

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Rolling Hansie
Thanks Silver Dagger and stonesrick.
Stonesrick, I just approved your membership. Does it work ?
I am still figuring out how it all works

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Silver Dagger
A warning to all...Holland 6 Northern Ireland 0. The Germany v Holland game, which is the second in their group, promises to be a classic.

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Gazza
Be afraid. I won last time, even predicting the two finalists!

Will do a bit of 'homework' and join in the next day or two.

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Gazza
Be afraid.

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Rolling Hansie
IORR EC 2012 POOL

Sign up at [www.ekpoultje.nl]

So far I have registrations from: Max, Nicos, Stonesrick and Palace Revolution.
Did I miss anyone ?

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kleermaker

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Gazza
Be afraid. I won last time, even predicting the two finalists!

Will do a bit of 'homework' and join in the next day or two.

"Homework"? Do you have a scientific, particularly mathematical, method for this? Or do you have to visit your local fortune teller yet?

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Silver Dagger
I'm there too Rolling.

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NICOS
is there something wrong with their bandwidth