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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned
This outtake does the trick. The best studo "ancient art of weaving" ever imo.
What a band they were...

It's lead and rhythm, not weaving (and you know it)

DP, actually I got agree with Amsterdamned. The whole opening verses has Taylor weaving at it's finest, LOl. He's not solo-ing yet, and is countering Keith's chopping very well. In a way he does what Brian used to do when they did the dual guitar thing, where his right hand is not hitting hard, but rhythmically picking single or two-noters, slinking in and out of Keith's hits. This dexription sounds lame, but can't think of another way. On "19th Nervous Breakdown" or on "Around and Around" Brian weaves around it. The word 'weaving' fits well here.
But that is what Taylor does in the first minutes here IMO.
I find that Taylor's rhythm playing doesn't get much credit. It is way understated, but it usually complements the song perfectly. Keith's playing is always very rhythmic and choppy, so playi9ng smooth and straight fits well.
Ron has much of Keith's sharp style so we get the 78 sound; very trebly and midrange-y. It's matter of opinion and taste, but there is much to be said for someone laying a solid rhythm down. Take "Bye Bye Johnny" in 72. When Keith takes off Taylor stays very solid underneath on the low strings. It makes the song roll.

hang on...it's only "weaving" if its Keith & Ronnie playing together...
Ha ! that's what alot of people on this board think anyway....

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned
This outtake does the trick. The best studo "ancient art of weaving" ever imo.
What a band they were...

It's lead and rhythm, not weaving (and you know it)

DP, actually I got agree with Amsterdamned. The whole opening verses has Taylor weaving at it's finest, LOl. He's not solo-ing yet, and is countering Keith's chopping very well. In a way he does what Brian used to do when they did the dual guitar thing, where his right hand is not hitting hard, but rhythmically picking single or two-noters, slinking in and out of Keith's hits. This dexription sounds lame, but can't think of another way. On "19th Nervous Breakdown" or on "Around and Around" Brian weaves around it. The word 'weaving' fits well here.
But that is what Taylor does in the first minutes here IMO.
I find that Taylor's rhythm playing doesn't get much credit. It is way understated, but it usually complements the song perfectly. Keith's playing is always very rhythmic and choppy, so playi9ng smooth and straight fits well.
Ron has much of Keith's sharp style so we get the 78 sound; very trebly and midrange-y. It's matter of opinion and taste, but there is much to be said for someone laying a solid rhythm down. Take "Bye Bye Johnny" in 72. When Keith takes off Taylor stays very solid underneath on the low strings. It makes the song roll.

I understand what you're saying, but can only partly agree.

It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

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DandelionPowderman

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned
This outtake does the trick. The best studo "ancient art of weaving" ever imo.
What a band they were...

It's lead and rhythm, not weaving (and you know it)

DP, actually I got agree with Amsterdamned. The whole opening verses has Taylor weaving at it's finest, LOl. He's not solo-ing yet, and is countering Keith's chopping very well. In a way he does what Brian used to do when they did the dual guitar thing, where his right hand is not hitting hard, but rhythmically picking single or two-noters, slinking in and out of Keith's hits. This dexription sounds lame, but can't think of another way. On "19th Nervous Breakdown" or on "Around and Around" Brian weaves around it. The word 'weaving' fits well here.
But that is what Taylor does in the first minutes here IMO.
I find that Taylor's rhythm playing doesn't get much credit. It is way understated, but it usually complements the song perfectly. Keith's playing is always very rhythmic and choppy, so playi9ng smooth and straight fits well.
Ron has much of Keith's sharp style so we get the 78 sound; very trebly and midrange-y. It's matter of opinion and taste, but there is much to be said for someone laying a solid rhythm down. Take "Bye Bye Johnny" in 72. When Keith takes off Taylor stays very solid underneath on the low strings. It makes the song roll.

I understand what you're saying, but can only partly agree.

It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

LOL, Dandy. I think by now it comes down to what the word 'weaving; means to each one of us. Because I agree with every word you wrote; and I would then call that 'weaving'.
BTW I always thought DLS was in A. I got to a piano..

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Amsterdamned
This outtake does the trick. The best studo "ancient art of weaving" ever imo.
What a band they were...

It's lead and rhythm, not weaving (and you know it)

DP, actually I got agree with Amsterdamned. The whole opening verses has Taylor weaving at it's finest, LOl. He's not solo-ing yet, and is countering Keith's chopping very well. In a way he does what Brian used to do when they did the dual guitar thing, where his right hand is not hitting hard, but rhythmically picking single or two-noters, slinking in and out of Keith's hits. This dexription sounds lame, but can't think of another way. On "19th Nervous Breakdown" or on "Around and Around" Brian weaves around it. The word 'weaving' fits well here.
But that is what Taylor does in the first minutes here IMO.
I find that Taylor's rhythm playing doesn't get much credit. It is way understated, but it usually complements the song perfectly. Keith's playing is always very rhythmic and choppy, so playi9ng smooth and straight fits well.
Ron has much of Keith's sharp style so we get the 78 sound; very trebly and midrange-y. It's matter of opinion and taste, but there is much to be said for someone laying a solid rhythm down. Take "Bye Bye Johnny" in 72. When Keith takes off Taylor stays very solid underneath on the low strings. It makes the song roll.

I understand what you're saying, but can only partly agree.

It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

LOL, Dandy. I think by now it comes down to what the word 'weaving; means to each one of us. Because I agree with every word you wrote; and I would then call that 'weaving'.
BTW I always thought DLS was in A. I got to a piano..

It is indeed in A, but the tuning is open G, my bad

Yeah, it's a question of interpretation, really. For me, weaving is two guys trading licks back and forth.

I'll have a word about it with DP in Rotterdam

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DandelionPowderman
It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

Yeah, it is Keith who has the attitude "damn the other guitars or whatever anyone else does: I lead the show and you rest just follow me!". He is not the one ready for 'weaving'! He sounds like ears closed and just concentrates on doing his own thing. All the interplay effect comes from Taylor to find something to add there (and he sounds trying to figure all kinds of things); all the interaction is in the shoulders of Taylor: his reflection of Keith's doings. I admit I was too harsh above. Taylor does a really nice thing but there is something non-balanced in that whole setting of inter-play.

Could it be that by then the roles were too fixed: Keith has adopted the riff-master, 'keeping thd rhythm down' role so deeply then, that he doesn't feel like doing anything else. And Taylor is the 'guitar ace' to provide all the rest. Like his post is to do that: "now when Charlie, Bill and I have laid the rhythm track down, you come and do your thing there". Perhaps it is due to Taylor's superior skills that the roles of the guitarists have separated so much during the years; Keith didn't even try to do more but just stuck to things he did best: the song-maker, the riff-master, the band leader, keeping the rhythm down... With Ronnie Keith got much more self-securance as guitar player.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-15 15:18 by Doxa.

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Amsterdamned
I'll have word about it with DP in Rotterdam

Cool! Amsterdam is now also on on the tour list: 11.03: Amsterdam (Holland) – Wilhelmina

See ya!

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

Yeah, it is Keith who has the attitude "damn the other guitars or whaever anyone else does: I lead the show and you rest just follow me!". He is not the one ready for 'weaving'! He sounds like ears closed and just concentrates to doing his own doing. all the interplay effect comes from Taylor's to find something to add there (and he sounds trying to figure all kinds of things); all the interaction is in the shoulders of Taylor: his reflection of Keith's doings. I admit I was too harsh above. Taylor does a really nice thing but there is something non-balanced in that whole setting of inter-play.

Could it be that by then the roles were too fixed: Keith has adopted the riff-master, 'keeping thd rhythm down' role so deeply then, that he doesn't feel like doing anything else. And Taylor is the 'guitar ace' to provide all the rest. Like his post is to do that: "now when Charlie, Bill and I have laid the rhythm track down, you come and do your thing there". Perhaps it is due to Taylor's superior skills that the roles of the guitarists have separated so much during the years; Keith didn't even try to do more but just stuck to things he did best: the song-maker, the riff-master, the band leader. With Ronnie Keith got much more self-securance as guitar player.

- Doxa

Listen to Shattered from Hampton and say that again! Some is by instinct, some is by listening to the other guitarist. Brilliant playing by both - and it's weaving indeed.

However, I reckon you're talking about the latter day Keith? Nowadays, he seems to thrash all over the song withouth bothering to listen whether what he plays is suitable or not, imo.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

Yeah, it is Keith who has the attitude "damn the other guitars or whaever anyone else does: I lead the show and you rest just follow me!". He is not the one ready for 'weaving'! He sounds like ears closed and just concentrates to doing his own doing. all the interplay effect comes from Taylor's to find something to add there (and he sounds trying to figure all kinds of things); all the interaction is in the shoulders of Taylor: his reflection of Keith's doings. I admit I was too harsh above. Taylor does a really nice thing but there is something non-balanced in that whole setting of inter-play.

Could it be that by then the roles were too fixed: Keith has adopted the riff-master, 'keeping thd rhythm down' role so deeply then, that he doesn't feel like doing anything else. And Taylor is the 'guitar ace' to provide all the rest. Like his post is to do that: "now when Charlie, Bill and I have laid the rhythm track down, you come and do your thing there". Perhaps it is due to Taylor's superior skills that the roles of the guitarists have separated so much during the years; Keith didn't even try to do more but just stuck to things he did best: the song-maker, the riff-master, the band leader. With Ronnie Keith got much more self-securance as guitar player.

- Doxa

Listen to Shattered from Hampton and say that again! Some is by instinct, some is by listening to the other guitarist. Brilliant playing by both - and it's weaving indeed.

However, I reckon you're talking about the latter day Keith? Nowadays, he seems to thrash all over the song withouth bothering to listen whether what he plays is suitable or not, imo.

No no! I was talking all the time about Keith's last days with Taylor, a'la "Dance Little Sister". I claim that it was with Taylor when Keith stuck into that kind of box, of which Ronnie helped him to get out (for a while). I love the waeving of 1978-1982 era as I think you should know!

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
It takes two to weave, and Keith is only playing a rock solid open G-chord. While Taylor's licks are more than fine - and very well-timed to Keith's playing, it hardly becomes weaving, but it's good interplaying indeed.

Yeah, it is Keith who has the attitude "damn the other guitars or whaever anyone else does: I lead the show and you rest just follow me!". He is not the one ready for 'weaving'! He sounds like ears closed and just concentrates to doing his own doing. all the interplay effect comes from Taylor's to find something to add there (and he sounds trying to figure all kinds of things); all the interaction is in the shoulders of Taylor: his reflection of Keith's doings. I admit I was too harsh above. Taylor does a really nice thing but there is something non-balanced in that whole setting of inter-play.

Could it be that by then the roles were too fixed: Keith has adopted the riff-master, 'keeping thd rhythm down' role so deeply then, that he doesn't feel like doing anything else. And Taylor is the 'guitar ace' to provide all the rest. Like his post is to do that: "now when Charlie, Bill and I have laid the rhythm track down, you come and do your thing there". Perhaps it is due to Taylor's superior skills that the roles of the guitarists have separated so much during the years; Keith didn't even try to do more but just stuck to things he did best: the song-maker, the riff-master, the band leader. With Ronnie Keith got much more self-securance as guitar player.

- Doxa

Listen to Shattered from Hampton and say that again! Some is by instinct, some is by listening to the other guitarist. Brilliant playing by both - and it's weaving indeed.

However, I reckon you're talking about the latter day Keith? Nowadays, he seems to thrash all over the song withouth bothering to listen whether what he plays is suitable or not, imo.

No no! I was talking all the time about Keith's last days with Taylor, a'la "Dance Little Sister". I claim that it was with Taylor when Keith stuck into that kind of box, of which Ronnie helped him to get out (for a while). I love the waeving of 1978-1982 era as I think you should know!

- Doxa

Sorry Doxa, I'm guilty of commenting without having read more than the first couple of lines of your post (slapping myself in the face in disgrace)

And to make this clear: there are many myths in regards to The Stones but what Ronnie calls "ancient art of weaving" is not one of those! What Ronnie did with Keith from 1978 to 1982 was expectional, and I don't let the "Taylorities" to mock that down. What Keith and Ronnie then achieved could be the most original thing The Stones ever have done in guitarwise.

Yeah, there are moments when we can say that Keith and Taylor "weave" but I take their personality and identity as guitar players being so far from each other that that kind of 'equalness' - and thinking the same - was out of question. Frankly, they weren't in the same level as guitar players, or their approach to guitar playing was so different that they couldn't really shift places as naturally as Ronnie and Keith can do. Keith and Ronnie namely are about same rate guitar players and they seem to think quite the same of guitar playing. Sharing the same 'philosophy' that is. I think that is the presupposition for 'weaving'. Most probably Keith felt the same with Brian in the early days (at least that is how he described his work with Ronnie when the latter joined the band)

But this does not mean that what Taylor and Richards did together was any less good. No, no at all. It was different - but brilliant as well. Well, if you put rock's greatest rhythm guitar and the fluidest and fine tunest solo guitar player together, you can't do much wrong!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-15 16:23 by Doxa.

Ive always really like this song. To me its like Country music with an edge that the stones bring to it.

In the end the main credit should still go to Keith as a sympathetic guitar player. In the BIG picture. (Because I very much agree with Doxa's 'head-in-the-box parallel).
With Brian, with Taylor and with Ron Wood there have been brilliant displays of weaving. And in each case a different kind of weave. But Keith has been the common denominator. One way or another he will bring out the loom in his partners.

I absolutely LOVE this track. The guitar interplay is beautiful. Yes, Keith sticks to rhythm......but he does it masterfully and Mick plays off of him nicely.

Then again.....i dig "Short and Curlies" ...which is regarded as a filler track by most here

I always wanted to see this track slotted in the second spot in a tour setlist. It has so much energy to blow a crowd away after a hopefully strong opener.

I love this tune and the whole band interplay is simply flawless..Great sounds great performance of cool material.

on a side note, I read somewhere that Jimmy Page (yes that guy) said the the version of DLS at El Mocambo is the best rock and roll song ever. It is hard to disagree with that.

Jimmy Page was right.





Absolutely brilliant.

===========

Edit added: Look at the pictures the video. Keith is a WRECK!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-15 18:48 by GravityBoy.

awesome track...one of the best Keef-tones ever...hypnotic.

I've always liked this song! I agree with you on this!

Agree Justin, my friend's favorite Stones song.
I love how it has that demo feel.

...and the subtle way the bass starts pumping at the end, and of course Ian Stewart on a rollicking piano, makes this an 'Original Six' Rolling Stones cut with Mick T. replacing Brian.

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Justin
...if someone were to ask me why this song kicks ass--I would have no idea how to explain it. ...

Easy, it's the Rolling STONES, It's only Rock 'n Roll and I like it

HMN

great song!

When IORR album came out Dance little Sister was just a filler to me.
Over the years it has grown on me. I like especially the live and the outtake version.
There is something about that track, - but it's still far away from their classics to me.

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NoCode0680
It's not ridiculously easy if you're trying to play Taylor's part. And that's my only complaint with this song, you have to strain to hear Taylor through most of the song (although they do turn him up at times, like the solo) and he's playing so awesomely. It seems a shame for such brilliant guitar work to be pushed so far back in the mix. But at the same time it would possibly overpower the song.

I love Taylor on this track but to me, he can only add so much to this. Most of the song is already completed by the time he comes in...all groove and feel. Whatever fills and solos he did put...served its pupose but for me, I definitely didn't need a cherry on top for this dessert to work!

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Redhotcarpet
I got hooked the first time I heard it. How the hell does he do it. One of Keiths best riffs and one that truly belongs to Keith and that comes from the style he developed under the influence of others (yeah the Ry cooder thing) but now its pure Keith. This is Keith doing what only he can do and he does it so well. A simple song, two chords (the important part), played like some goldminer with a 12-Karat gently hacking it into a 24-Karat piece. This riff is one of the most underrated in the history of rock music. Listen to just Keiths guitar, with the drums and bass. Brilliant.

Absolutely. What I love is that the riff is just Keith chugging along with an A chord while the guitar is in Open G. The riff is the chug! It's his double stops and his restraint and groove that makes this song. To me, it's the pinnacle Keith groove.

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DandelionPowderman
The song is cool, but a bit too long, imo. Some of Taylor's finest solo playing in the studio is here. Great stuff!

The El Marimba-version is very good as well.

I find it very interesting that they chose the length of the song to be 4 minutes. The song easily could at the 2 minute marker but nope they let it go for another couple minutes. They know lyrically, it's not a masterpeice so it's all about having a good time with the groove. It's as if they treated it as a purely dance track.

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stupidguy2
Agree Justin, my friend's favorite Stones song.
I love how it has that demo feel.

It does feel like a demo doesn't it? Probably one of the rare tracks that has that feel and works so very well.

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GravityBoy
Jimmy Page was right.

I saw that. Is that comment that person put up true? I tried to research the supposed quote from Jimmy Page but came up with no results. Here it is for anyone who may be able to identify the source:

Some interviewer once asked Jimmy Page, about Keith Richards: "Aren't there some things you cant' forgive him for?". Jimmy just smiled and said: "Ah! Just listen to Keith play "Dance Little Sister". For that; he can be forgiven for MANY? things".


I often wonder how other fans of Zeppelin or AC/DC would react to this song? Would they find it whimpy or nothing to write home about? Is this track the perfect example of the Stones having the "roll"...along with the rock? I think it might be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-16 03:40 by Justin.

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CousinC
There is something about that track, - but it's still far away from their classics to me.

For me, that counts for the whole album. It's strange - I love each and every track, but as a whole, I don't rank it amongst their classic albums.

Then again, it only shows how much great music this band gave us that an album like IORR which would be a career highlight for many other bands falls a bit to the wayside!

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alimente

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CousinC
There is something about that track, - but it's still far away from their classics to me.

For me, that counts for the whole album. It's strange - I love each and every track, but as a whole, I don't rank it amongst their classic albums.

Then again, it only shows how much great music this band gave us that an album like IORR which would be a career highlight for many other bands falls a bit to the wayside!

I agree with you there, I also love every song on the LP; well maybe with the exception of Short And Curlies, but I think the album itself below all other Rolling Stones records of the 70s, even though the songs themselves are great, and most of them also better than what they released on Black & Blue

Just like Emotional Rescue, IORR doesn't flow that well as a whole. Don't know exactly why



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-16 07:44 by Erik_Snow.

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Justin
I put this favorite track on repeat a couple times in the car today...if someone were to ask me why this song kicks ass--I would have no idea how to explain it.

Definitely a great song, with licks and lyrics that can easily stuck in my head, love it, always have.

Dance Little Sister is the first Rolling Stones song I remember hearing! I remember listening to IORR and Tattoo You in the house from a very young age, Dance Little Sister and If You Can't Rock Me have been favorites from a very young age.

As a drummer, the intro to the song is a favorite, the way Charlie accents the first note of the kick drum every time is great. The push and pull between he and Keith is very cool, he always sounds like he is about 1/10 of a second behind the rest of the band with the kick, it gives the song and extra grit.

Great track!

A nice little R&R song, boardering on cliche Stones though. Fantastic guitar sound by Keith. Taylor's part is nice, but I can't help feeling that it sounds a bit tired in a way, like Taylor was bored playing it. On the outtake he plays a lick before the track starts -that lick is a typical technical run through, somehting your fingers play while your watching TV. Every guitarist will recognize that.

Mathijs