Great albums of 1986:

Graceland - Paul Simon (may be not Stones alike great, but great in a general way)
Slippery when wet - Bon Jovi (I know, maybe a little corny now, but then I thought it was great)
So - Peter Gabriel

I edited 'cuz I wanted to double check...1986 was in fact REM's Life's Rich Pageant...that was a great album.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-20 23:28 by treaclefingers.

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treaclefingers
Great albums of 1986:

I edited 'cuz I wanted to double check...1986 was in fact REM's Life's Rich Pageant...that was a great album.

(ahem)

[www.iorr.org]

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treaclefingers

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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LeonidP

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Max'sKansasCity

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Glam Descendant
It's amusing how folks that claim to dislike DW discuss it so compulsively.

exactly and they do over and over in thread after thread about it.

Funny, i was thinking the same thing about folks that claim to love DW, & discuss it so compulsively and defend it over and over, thread after thread, etc. as if they think by saying it enough that they might convince the naysayers that a piece of shite somehow is beyond their grasp of understanding of how brilliant it is. .. Kind of strange that folks don't just see things differently each thread...

I dont think it is the same people starting the threads each time, but it seems to be the same naysayers who come in each time to bash it....... to me, it is one thing to be happy with something, and be happily motivated to post something postive and happy about it, and dwell on positive vibes..... it is another to constanlty dwell on the negative and negative vibes... if someone likes something, some person, why not let them like it without feeling compelled to say it is shite.....

And I feel the converse it true ... is some think it is shite, why try to ruin it and lie, saying it is a masterpiece?

It's also funny how the DW defenders seem to get so defensive about it too - deep down they know its shite too but just can't admit it, and think that by overstating how good it is that they will change minds. Sorry, it sucks - don't blame us, blame the Stones, they did it. Anyway I love both Bridges & Bigger Bang - and many of this board hate those albums - but I don't feel the need to go in those threads and try and stop anyone from bashing them, I don't really care ...

Doesn't the thread title just deserve a bitch-slapping though? ...

It sure does & a bitch-slapping it got!

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StonesTod

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Erik_Snow
So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

can't speak for others, but this certainly represents me very well.

Well I didn't want to be the first to admit it ... but yes, this speaks for me as well.

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LeonidP

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StonesTod

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Erik_Snow
So; the posters who really like Dirty Work think that the ones who despise it:

- actually dig the album, but don't dare to say so
- have an agenda
- have never listened to the album
- just love to bash things that other people like

can't speak for others, but this certainly represents me very well.

Well I didn't want to be the first to admit it ... but yes, this speaks for me as well.

dammit. i need a new gig.

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Glam Descendant

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treaclefingers
Great albums of 1986:

I edited 'cuz I wanted to double check...1986 was in fact REM's Life's Rich Pageant...that was a great album.

(ahem)

[www.iorr.org]

Well you didn't expect me to read ALL the posts on this mammoth thread did you?!?

GOOD TASTE!

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treaclefingers
Great albums of 1986:

Graceland - Paul Simon (may be not Stones alike great, but great in a general way)
Slippery when wet - Bon Jovi (I know, maybe a little corny now, but then I thought it was great)
So - Peter Gabriel

I edited 'cuz I wanted to double check...1986 was in fact REM's Life's Rich Pageant...that was a great album.

No. SLippery is not great. Not good. Not mediocre. Not nothing. It is pathetic pap

the album is dreadful with the only saving grace being ONE HIT

What's interesting to me reading this is how much people bring their biases to this discussion and then apply them to everyone else! I am relatively new to this board and don't know about years and years of discussion about this album. I just like the album, I know most people don't, and I was motivated to write a blog about it that I thought I'd share. I didn't realize that I was opening old wounds, and it sure is interesting to see the things being said.

For the record, for example, I DO NOT think that the people who don't like DW have an agenda, secretly like it, just like to bash others, or anything like that. I just don't think they like it! I understand why. I just don't agree. To me, it's a fun discussion. What I see though, is that people are REALLY sensitive about this. Interesting...

For the record, I'll add that I do see in a few cases a certain dismissiveness, as if saying that "of course it sucks, we all know it sucks, and it's not even worth discussing." That to me is just intolerance and demeaning. People have different points of views and I hope EVERYONE takes the time to explain their views like adults, and not just dismiss those who disagree with them.

To me, as I've noted before, the Stones are just so much more than four great albums from the Mick Taylor era, with a little Some Girls era "bump" thrown in for good measure. For better or worse, they've been doing this for fifty years now, and to me that's just awe-inspiring, and worth digging into.

And again for the record: I listened to DW on Shuffle on the way to picking up my son from a friend's house today. The five songs that came up, in order of appearance, were: Harlem Shuffle, One Hit, Had It With You, Too Rude, and Had It With You. Those are five FANTASTIC songs! I'm really not sure why this album raises so many objections! I understand a couple songs - Less Than Zero in particular - are sub-par. But overall, take those five songs, add Fight and Sleep Tonight, you've got seven songs I'd rate as an A or A-. Hold Back - solid B+. So that leaves just two lousy songs WU and LTZ). How does that make it a lousy album?

Hmmm...maybe my next post will be: "Stones Greatest Album: Satantic Majesties Request!" Just kidding.

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mickscarey

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treaclefingers
Great albums of 1986:

Graceland - Paul Simon (may be not Stones alike great, but great in a general way)
Slippery when wet - Bon Jovi (I know, maybe a little corny now, but then I thought it was great)
So - Peter Gabriel

I edited 'cuz I wanted to double check...1986 was in fact REM's Life's Rich Pageant...that was a great album.

No. SLippery is not great. Not good. Not mediocre. Not nothing. It is pathetic pap

not that I feel the need to apologize, but I would like to clarify "Slippery When Wet" was not my pick...I was quoting. My pick was REM, Life's Rich Pageant. You may feel free to continue hurling your abuse.

In my last post I mentioned HIWY twice - meant to say DW - thanks

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
This song gets bashed a lot here. I fail to see why?

It's one of the best songs on the album, but that isn't saying a lot unfortunately. It really does nothing for me. Imagine how wild the crowd would go if they played it in concert?

I can understand your view, of course - it's not a masterpiece.

Still, as a guitarplayer, I can't help being blown away by Keith's sound and the fantastic tightness in his rhythm guitar here.

And it's always good to hear the boys playing the blues - just love that bridge!

Playing this live? Hm, then it would have to be a B-stage number.

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MrMonte
The five songs that came up, in order of appearance, were:
Harlem Shuffle, One Hit, Had It With You, Too Rude, and Had It With You. Those are five FANTASTIC songs!

smile: i dig them a lot too, but that's FOUR fantastic songs. have some popcorn anyway :E

ahem: don't mind me :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-21 14:34 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul
ahem: don't mind me :E

A rather rude message to the fans

No, they can start with We Love You and play Had It With You as the encore, but only if it's their farewell tour

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melillo
the album is dreadful with the only saving grace being ONE HIT

Sorry Melillo,
if D.W. is 'dreadful', how would you define A Bigger Bang?

Why are Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight dreadful songs?????????

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DandelionPowderman
A rather rude message to the fans

ahh but that entire show would be dedicated to the perpetual whiners, naggers and piss-takers, Dandelion dear!
the fans would be invited to the afterparty gig :E

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KRiffhard

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melillo
the album is dreadful with the only saving grace being ONE HIT

Sorry Melillo,
if D.W. is 'dreadful', how would you define A Bigger Bang?

not much better to be honest

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with sssoul

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DandelionPowderman
A rather rude message to the fans

ahh but that entire show would be dedicated to the perpetual whiners, naggers and piss-takers, Dandelion dear!
the fans would be invited to the afterparty gig :E

Count me in!

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DandelionPowderman
Why are Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight dreadful songs?????????

Well, those are the two I happen to like. As for the rest....

Hi again IORR,
Here's my third post - a review of Dirty Work I wrote a couple of years ago.

Dirty Work – 1986 (US #4; UK#4)
One Hit (To The Body) • Fight • Harlem Shuffle • Hold Back • Too Rude •
Winning Ugly • Back To Zero • Dirty Work • Had It With You • Sleep Tonight

Stones Fan – **
Casual Listener - *


Dirty Work is a record of The Rolling Stones at their lowest, both artistically and commercially. It was supposed to be a new beginning on Columbia records. But as clearly documented on its horrible day-glow cover, Mick and Keith’s relationship was at rock bottom, and The Stones appear miserable. With Mick seemingly pre-occupied with his solo career (which was part of the new record contract), Keith and Woody take the helm, heavily aided by hot producer Steve Lillywhite. The fact that there’s two covers, two Keith lead vocals (for the first time ever), only three Jagger/Richards tunes and four Jagger/Richards/Woods tracks, all is clearly not good in the Stone’s camp. Interestingly, this was the first Stones album to print the lyrics, and they’re absolutely brutal in some cases.

The album opens with strummed acoustic guitars, suddenly sideswiped by the rawest, blood thirsting electric guitar chainsaw riffing possibly ever heard on a Stones record. Charlie and the band kick in extremely hard and powerfully. The lyrics match the brutality of the music as Jagger sings, “I don’t need no security, I just need me some peace” or “You did me some permanent harm, It’s hurting me”. Yet at the end “I can’t clean you out of my veins, it’s a life long addiction that has damaged my brain”. Along with it’s dark, angry video that at points looks like Jagger and Richards want to kill each other, One Hit (To The Body) is one of the most powerful, monster opening tracks The Stones have ever done.

The one / two punch literally continues with Fight, another brutal hard rock assault as Jagger screams “Gonna pulp you to a mass of bruises ‘cause that’s what you’re lookin’ for”. The Stones music has always been built around the guitar, but outside producer Steve Lillywhite created a massive drum sound on Dirty Work. The guitars are slashing away viciously here, but Charlie’s drums are equally big in the mix. These two opening tracks are not pretend. This is the Stones savagely attacking and with the matching lyrics, it’s a difficult, yet tremendously potent experience.

The Stones chose for the first time since the early 60’s, to release a cover as the lead single. Listening to the album, it was a wise choice as Harlem Shuffle (an old Bob and Earl song) is the only commercial track on the album, and it gave The Stones a hit, peaking at #5 in the States and #13 UK. Unfortunately the song is too slick and overproduced, and although The Stones substitute keyboards for the originals horns, they play it with little originality. Instead of “stonesifying” a cover, here they simply sound like a great cover band.

The Stones thrash back in with Hold Back, an overwhelming attack of hard rock and screaming vocals. Charlie’s drums are so loud and powerful, that it barely sounds like The Stones. It’s an uncompromising mess of loud, noisy mush that leads nowhere except as an onslaught. Jagger’s not holding back, but some dynamics and fine-tuning finesse are desperately needed here.

Keith takes his first lead vocal on the album on Too Rude, The Stones most authentic and successful take on reggae. Keith’s vocal as well as much of the musical interplay is heavily echoed, and although Charlie’s drums are again way upfront in the mix and powerful, this time it all comes together to great effect. Charlie’s echoed/repeated snare shots are super tasty, as are the guitar licks. Keith does a great live version of this on his solo shows.

After the wonderfully authentic vibe of Too Rude, side two’s opener comes on to jarring effect. Carried by a wonderful bass groove and Charlie’s loud snare (but little else from the drums – where’s the cymbals?), Winning Ugly is ruined by the heavy synth sound overlaying the track. Some nice guitar licks interweave throughout, and Jagger sings powerfully, but Winning Ugly sounds more ‘80’s Jagger solo than Rolling Stones, and is especially lost sounding amidst this hard rocking album. Today it especially sounds dated.

This problem is even worse on the next track Back To Zero. It’s a super funky vibe, carried by great plucking bass playing and Charlie’s dominating snare, aided by lots of percussion and echoed vocal effects. But the track is excessively noisy and has a feel that makes it more Jagger solo-like. Chuck Leavell gets a credit on this song, yet instead of organic piano, it’s the 80’s synth sound that sounds dated. The music needs to be toned down, with a warmer mix and natural sounding groove.

The title track Dirty Work instantly jars, as this sounds like classic hard rock Rolling Stones. Again, Charlie’s snare is so loud, it distracts, but the electric guitars are equally powerful here, including a super solo lead break. Jagger’s vocals are seething with anger as he scorns someone who lets others do the dirty work. It’s a great vocal performance matched by great music. The song pitters away at the end, but Dirty Work is a powerful track that makes a perfect threesome with One Hit and Fight.

Had It With You is a strange mixture. It initially has a nice rockabilly feel, but it’s played and sung way to hard. There’s a nice harp solo and a downright weird section, where the song stops to a slow crawl only to pick up to the original torrid pace. To make it more interesting, there’s no bass but any sense of feel and taste is lost due to the overwhelming snare sound and hard rock production, instead of a more natural organic groove. Had It With You has potential as a lost opportunity.

Keith takes his second vocal on Sleep Tonight. In the context of the proceeding album, the production is grand and more widescreen. This time, the large drum sound fits perfectly with the almost symphonic sound lead by glorious piano and soulful background vocals. Unlike most of the album, Sleep Tonight sounds organic and naturally soulful, though highly produced. This is genuine music with a beating heart and wonderfully heartfelt vocal by Keith. Sleep Tonight is the first time, although now it’s almost a tradition, in which Keith closes the album in crooning style. He’ll do even better next time.

After that highlight, we get a tasty remembrance of Ian Stewart boogying on piano on a hidden outro memorial to the lost Stones member. It’s a classy way to end a disjointed, jarring, mismatched, un-uniformed Stones album thankfully unlike any other. The dismal state of the fractured band fighting and overall bad-feelings are all here in this exceptionally loud production. There are still some great tracks here, although as an album, Dirty Work doesn’t work.

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kammpberg
Hi again IORR,
Here's my third post - a review of Dirty Work I wrote a couple of years ago.

Dirty Work – 1986 (US #4; UK#4)
One Hit (To The Body) • Fight • Harlem Shuffle • Hold Back • Too Rude •
Winning Ugly • Back To Zero • Dirty Work • Had It With You • Sleep Tonight

Stones Fan – **
Casual Listener - *


Dirty Work is a record of The Rolling Stones at their lowest, both artistically and commercially. It was supposed to be a new beginning on Columbia records. But as clearly documented on its horrible day-glow cover, Mick and Keith’s relationship was at rock bottom, and The Stones appear miserable. With Mick seemingly pre-occupied with his solo career (which was part of the new record contract), Keith and Woody take the helm, heavily aided by hot producer Steve Lillywhite. The fact that there’s two covers, two Keith lead vocals (for the first time ever), only three Jagger/Richards tunes and four Jagger/Richards/Woods tracks, all is clearly not good in the Stone’s camp. Interestingly, this was the first Stones album to print the lyrics, and they’re absolutely brutal in some cases.

The album opens with strummed acoustic guitars, suddenly sideswiped by the rawest, blood thirsting electric guitar chainsaw riffing possibly ever heard on a Stones record. Charlie and the band kick in extremely hard and powerfully. The lyrics match the brutality of the music as Jagger sings, “I don’t need no security, I just need me some peace” or “You did me some permanent harm, It’s hurting me”. Yet at the end “I can’t clean you out of my veins, it’s a life long addiction that has damaged my brain”. Along with it’s dark, angry video that at points looks like Jagger and Richards want to kill each other, One Hit (To The Body) is one of the most powerful, monster opening tracks The Stones have ever done.

The one / two punch literally continues with Fight, another brutal hard rock assault as Jagger screams “Gonna pulp you to a mass of bruises ‘cause that’s what you’re lookin’ for”. The Stones music has always been built around the guitar, but outside producer Steve Lillywhite created a massive drum sound on Dirty Work. The guitars are slashing away viciously here, but Charlie’s drums are equally big in the mix. These two opening tracks are not pretend. This is the Stones savagely attacking and with the matching lyrics, it’s a difficult, yet tremendously potent experience.

The Stones chose for the first time since the early 60’s, to release a cover as the lead single. Listening to the album, it was a wise choice as Harlem Shuffle (an old Bob and Earl song) is the only commercial track on the album, and it gave The Stones a hit, peaking at #5 in the States and #13 UK. Unfortunately the song is too slick and overproduced, and although The Stones substitute keyboards for the originals horns, they play it with little originality. Instead of “stonesifying” a cover, here they simply sound like a great cover band.

The Stones thrash back in with Hold Back, an overwhelming attack of hard rock and screaming vocals. Charlie’s drums are so loud and powerful, that it barely sounds like The Stones. It’s an uncompromising mess of loud, noisy mush that leads nowhere except as an onslaught. Jagger’s not holding back, but some dynamics and fine-tuning finesse are desperately needed here.

Keith takes his first lead vocal on the album on Too Rude, The Stones most authentic and successful take on reggae. Keith’s vocal as well as much of the musical interplay is heavily echoed, and although Charlie’s drums are again way upfront in the mix and powerful, this time it all comes together to great effect. Charlie’s echoed/repeated snare shots are super tasty, as are the guitar licks. Keith does a great live version of this on his solo shows.

After the wonderfully authentic vibe of Too Rude, side two’s opener comes on to jarring effect. Carried by a wonderful bass groove and Charlie’s loud snare (but little else from the drums – where’s the cymbals?), Winning Ugly is ruined by the heavy synth sound overlaying the track. Some nice guitar licks interweave throughout, and Jagger sings powerfully, but Winning Ugly sounds more ‘80’s Jagger solo than Rolling Stones, and is especially lost sounding amidst this hard rocking album. Today it especially sounds dated.

This problem is even worse on the next track Back To Zero. It’s a super funky vibe, carried by great plucking bass playing and Charlie’s dominating snare, aided by lots of percussion and echoed vocal effects. But the track is excessively noisy and has a feel that makes it more Jagger solo-like. Chuck Leavell gets a credit on this song, yet instead of organic piano, it’s the 80’s synth sound that sounds dated. The music needs to be toned down, with a warmer mix and natural sounding groove.

The title track Dirty Work instantly jars, as this sounds like classic hard rock Rolling Stones. Again, Charlie’s snare is so loud, it distracts, but the electric guitars are equally powerful here, including a super solo lead break. Jagger’s vocals are seething with anger as he scorns someone who lets others do the dirty work. It’s a great vocal performance matched by great music. The song pitters away at the end, but Dirty Work is a powerful track that makes a perfect threesome with One Hit and Fight.

Had It With You is a strange mixture. It initially has a nice rockabilly feel, but it’s played and sung way to hard. There’s a nice harp solo and a downright weird section, where the song stops to a slow crawl only to pick up to the original torrid pace. To make it more interesting, there’s no bass but any sense of feel and taste is lost due to the overwhelming snare sound and hard rock production, instead of a more natural organic groove. Had It With You has potential as a lost opportunity.

Keith takes his second vocal on Sleep Tonight. In the context of the proceeding album, the production is grand and more widescreen. This time, the large drum sound fits perfectly with the almost symphonic sound lead by glorious piano and soulful background vocals. Unlike most of the album, Sleep Tonight sounds organic and naturally soulful, though highly produced. This is genuine music with a beating heart and wonderfully heartfelt vocal by Keith. Sleep Tonight is the first time, although now it’s almost a tradition, in which Keith closes the album in crooning style. He’ll do even better next time.

After that highlight, we get a tasty remembrance of Ian Stewart boogying on piano on a hidden outro memorial to the lost Stones member. It’s a classy way to end a disjointed, jarring, mismatched, un-uniformed Stones album thankfully unlike any other. The dismal state of the fractured band fighting and overall bad-feelings are all here in this exceptionally loud production. There are still some great tracks here, although as an album, Dirty Work doesn’t work.

Great review kammpberg...although I should note that by the way you've dealed out your 'stars', it appears I'm only a casual listener...so what do I know?!

WOW, I dont read reviews but Kammpberg you actually make Dirty Work respectable. Mr. Monte take notes and A LOT OF THEM. His review made me play my Dirty Work CD where as your blog and this subsequent Post you made here did nothing but remind me have low I felt being a Stones fan at that low period in their legacy.

Dirty Work A Masterpiece? Cheez & Crackers!! What's Next? How About The Stones Open Up Their 50th Anniversary Tour With "Indian Girl".. THen Get Down To Rockin With "Back To Zero"...Then Into "I'd Much Rather Be With The Boys"....

Dude..If You Like Dirty Work..God Bless Ya!

SOULSURVIVOR

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nick
WOW, I dont read reviews but Kammpberg you actually make Dirty Work respectable. Mr. Monte take notes and A LOT OF THEM. His review made me play my Dirty Work CD where as your blog and this subsequent Post you made here did nothing but remind me have low I felt being a Stones fan at that low period in their legacy.

Yeah that was a low period to be a fan...that album, sandwiched between She's The Boss and Primitive Cool...with the 'Ruthless People' single in there somewhere for good measure.

I think the Mick 'backlash' started during that period and he's still fighting that legacy to some extent, even with a lot of IORRians.

1985-87 a very low period. There were signs of trouble though, as early as 1984 with the Michael Jackson duet.

That's probably why I'm not as tough on them as 'the Vegas Stones' since 1989. It's just a relief to have them back.

Gabriels 'So' is a great album indeed, but my favourite from 1986 is 'Knocked out loaded' by Dylan...songs like 'Brownsville Girl' and 'Precious Memories' is on that one...

2 1 2 0

Sorry - I should've pointed out that when I was reviewing, I would do a dual point system. One if you're a fan of the band already, and one if you're not. So for Dirty Work, I had given two stars (fair) if you're already a Stones fan and 1 star (poor) if you weren't. Meaning Dirty Work would be a poor choice to introduce the Stones to a newbie, but a fair recording if you're already a Stones fan.

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treaclefingers

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mickscarey

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treaclefingers
Great albums of 1986:

Graceland - Paul Simon (may be not Stones alike great, but great in a general way)
Slippery when wet - Bon Jovi (I know, maybe a little corny now, but then I thought it was great)
So - Peter Gabriel

I edited 'cuz I wanted to double check...1986 was in fact REM's Life's Rich Pageant...that was a great album.

No. SLippery is not great. Not good. Not mediocre. Not nothing. It is pathetic pap

not that I feel the need to apologize, but I would like to clarify "Slippery When Wet" was not my pick...I was quoting. My pick was REM, Life's Rich Pageant. You may feel free to continue hurling your abuse.

Here to help!

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soulsurvivor1
What's Next? How About The Stones Open Up Their 50th Anniversary Tour With "Indian Girl".
SOULSURVIVOR

Great suggestion. That would be fantastic. A bit slow to start a show, but the crowd might hush down to hear this Stones classic.