Tell Me :
Talk
Sorry Mathijs, I call BS! "French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets" might have been about nationalities, football or alcohol but it wasn't because of pot. "The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets"; again, not because of pot. "The Rotterdam dealers dealing (non-pot) is irrelevant to the discussion on coffee shops. It's the world's largest port and an international city; they would be there stabbing people regardless of whether every drug in the world was legal or illegal. And if growing pot in the attic was illegal, then once again that has nothing to do with the coffeeshops being open to foreigners, but rather risktaking nationals. The sick sex slave trade and women getting beat up is not because of legal prostitution; but rather illegal kidnapping, a failure of immigration officers to crack down on who's coming into the country thru the borders and ports, the prostitution 'boards' for not enforcing who is legal to be certified and make their living that way, and the fault of neighbors, eye witnesses and police for not stopping EVERYONE who is assaulted. The lame 'finale' of "the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint" is specious at best. That's just bad parenting, and to pretend it doesn't really happen with pills, pharmaceuticals and alcohol and teens is naive. And again, it's not even a question of legality/availability, it's bad parenting. Now I'm sure certain things happen there because of the freedoms offered, but your paragraph strikes me as bogus reasoning, thru and thru.
I'm sorry you feel your national experiment has gone awry, but there are more concise things to blame that on, and getting jaded over every type of 'seedy' degenerate activity and laying it at the feet of "tourists visiting for pot" is lazy and inaccurate reasoning. Do the French and Belgians fight nowhere else, do the Brits puke nowhere else? There's a responsible way of pulling the country together responsibly without falling for the authoritarian/fundamentalist/police state mentality afflicting so many nations. If anyone can do it, you guys can! (and must, frankly. the UK/US are no longer moral role models for democracy or liberty) And you need to show the world you can, as a shining example to others!! Hang in there.
Yes, there are many things to see there I'm sure. But there are other places one can go to see history, art, architecture, etc. But there is only one place that is the Mecca of the pot-smoking world, Amsterdam.
I don't know how much this drop in tourism is really going to hurt though. All the people I know that went there to visit the coffee shops (quite a few really) weren't exactly pumping a lot of money into the economy. Except the coffee shops. It would tend to be a low budget affair, backpacking, staying in hostels, etc, with the biggest part of the budget going towards weed, with some set aside to hit McDonald's or something.
The title caught my eye too and I was thinking something along the lines of Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks.
Very good response! I don't understand the link between smoking pot and Eastern European slave trade. That is more a commentary on the red light district than a cafe serving beautiful bud. It is a sham and a scam that pot is illegal, when cigarettes and alcohol ravage people's health. I was just in Amsterdam in transit and stepped out of the airport for a civilized smoke in a cafe. The owner seemed to think the law wouldn't be enforced and wondered what all the fuss was about. I have read that one reason for this reaction is the infiltration of gangs from other country's trying to control the drug trade. But then why not just beef up law enforcement measures rather than ban pot smoking for foreigners? Some day there will be sane and logical laws worldwide that allow pot to be smoked by adults.
and how many times with dope smoking and prostitution indulging? just for comparative analyis....
14 year old boys bedrooms attracting all kind of trashy elements? Now i've heard it all. Cozy bars where brains get pickled with alcohol, that sounds more likely the cause of the fighting, the puking and the punting. Alcohol is not a vice? This is the type of hypocritical misinformation that prevents progress on the whole issue. peace.
I didn't even know StonesTod did ballet.
I am contrasting the vibe of the pot cafes with most of the pleasant traditional bars in Amsterdam. I find the regular bars much more pleasant and the pot bars seedy. Deal with it. I have nothing against marijuana - I'm a former imbiber myself. And yes, there are parts of Amsterdam where idiot tourists congregate because of the novelty of being able to smoke hash in a legal establishment, I've been there as recently as last month.
The Lonesome Ballet of StonesTod is a dylan outtake....
I'll tell you why pot is connected to the red light district, slave trade, real estate maffia and what more -the annual turnover of soft drugs in The Netherlands is roughly 4 billion euro's. Now, while you are allowed to buy and use soft drugs in a coffee shop, and the coffee shop is allowed to sell it to you, the coffee shop is NOT allowed to buy in soft drugs from any source. So basically, 4 billion is spend by soft drug users, but it is not earned by the sellers. This leaves two questions: How does the coffee shop holder gets his soft drugs, and where does all that money go? The coffee shop holder gets his drugs via two routes: it is grown iligally in houses, attics, greenhouses, warehouses etc, by either normal people risking eveything they have (being expelled from their homes, getting tax fines for hundreds thousands of euro's etc) or by criminals. These criminals either grow it, or import it. These criminals earn loads of money, and do not only earn money with soft dugs. They import hard drugs as well (cocaine traffic is run by the same people who run the soft drugs trade), they get women from East Europe to work for them in brothels, which they just bought from all the money made from importing soft drugs. Remember, a fairly standard four floor mansion in the city of Amsterdam costs around 2 million euro's. All this 'black' money they earn (remember: 4 billion a year) must be white washed, and one of the easiest ways is to invest it in property.
This, in short, is how something that is legal in the Netherlands is actually a giant motor behind the illigal circuit.
Mathijs
Yeah but you can smoke weed on your back porch.
Not many people or museums have access to such fine artwork than was produced by the Dutch. Some of the best Renaissance art the world has ever known.
As a resident of Los Angeles, I see the same tourists on Hollywood Boulevard taking stupid photos of hustlers dressed up as Superman or Marilyn Monroe. It comes with the territory of living in an interesting city. Amsterdam has a charm that has to be felt live. I used to go there for a couple weeks at a time and immerse myself. I can always find something new to do, like bicycling out to the countryside of North Amsterdam. To me Amsterdam is such a uniquely beautiful city that it makes me happy that people will still come there to see it when I'm long gone.
After going through a big earthquake in L.A. in '94 I remember how safe I felt it Amsterdam. I could smoke some Parvati Creme hash and not get paranoid. Being able to consume good smokeables in Amsterdam, in moderation, added to the hypnotic beauty of the place. As a long time visitor, I know what will happen now. Those amount of scary faces that come out of the dimly lit Red Light District side streets will grow as pot becomes non-available. Crime will grow, not recede. How will restricting coffee shops prevent the criminal element from still getting pot & much harder drugs into Amsterdam? Now the local residents, who will still get to go to the remaining coffee shops, will find they can make a killing selling the products they can still buy.
Those obnoxious Brits and French and Belgians who come over and take over the Red Light District on the weekends are there for the beer. They'll still go wild and puke on the cobblestones streets. But sitting outside, peacefully, at the Green House canal side, enjoying a bowl, will sadly disappear.
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
how cute
Not very nice.
I never realized that you were anti-American.
Exactly how I feel about foreign tourists in Times Square, New York. They clog the streets and sidewalks, they gape at the giant video screens, they take pictures of each other. All the while, real New Yorkers are trying to walk through them or go around these clueless people to get where they are going. There is nothing to see in Times Square that can't be seen in any mall in the U.S.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 19:49 by 71Tele.
hahaha, no I am absolutely not anti-American, certainly not. It's just a stupid joke from a famous Dutch comedian Hans Teeuwen, and when I used to work as a barman in a pub nearby the Anne Frank house it was the joke of the day for a year. It's known in Holland as 'Amsterdam humour'. German people we pointed towards the wrong direction (Do is der bahnhof, from Koot & De Bie), Belgians we pretended not to understand because they speak Dutch with an accent, to Italiens we spoke like Mussolini in a Alo Alo accent, with Brits we called the police because they always start a fight.
It was just fun out of boredom.
Mathijs
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 19:55 by Mathijs.
I have been to Amsterdam five times and still have not been to Anne Frank house. Is it worth the visit?
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
winter
()
Date: December 16, 2011 01:30
Quote
Mathijs
Well, we sure won't miss the French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets of Limburg, The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets, the dealers stabbing you in Rotterdam, the slave-traded prostitutes from East Europe being beat up by their 'protectors', all the families who are thrown out of their houses because daddy thought it was good idea to grow weed on the attic, the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint.
Should I go on? It was a nice experiment, but it went way out of hand.
Mathijs
Sorry Mathijs, I call BS! "French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets" might have been about nationalities, football or alcohol but it wasn't because of pot. "The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets"; again, not because of pot. "The Rotterdam dealers dealing (non-pot) is irrelevant to the discussion on coffee shops. It's the world's largest port and an international city; they would be there stabbing people regardless of whether every drug in the world was legal or illegal. And if growing pot in the attic was illegal, then once again that has nothing to do with the coffeeshops being open to foreigners, but rather risktaking nationals. The sick sex slave trade and women getting beat up is not because of legal prostitution; but rather illegal kidnapping, a failure of immigration officers to crack down on who's coming into the country thru the borders and ports, the prostitution 'boards' for not enforcing who is legal to be certified and make their living that way, and the fault of neighbors, eye witnesses and police for not stopping EVERYONE who is assaulted. The lame 'finale' of "the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint" is specious at best. That's just bad parenting, and to pretend it doesn't really happen with pills, pharmaceuticals and alcohol and teens is naive. And again, it's not even a question of legality/availability, it's bad parenting. Now I'm sure certain things happen there because of the freedoms offered, but your paragraph strikes me as bogus reasoning, thru and thru.
I'm sorry you feel your national experiment has gone awry, but there are more concise things to blame that on, and getting jaded over every type of 'seedy' degenerate activity and laying it at the feet of "tourists visiting for pot" is lazy and inaccurate reasoning. Do the French and Belgians fight nowhere else, do the Brits puke nowhere else? There's a responsible way of pulling the country together responsibly without falling for the authoritarian/fundamentalist/police state mentality afflicting so many nations. If anyone can do it, you guys can! (and must, frankly. the UK/US are no longer moral role models for democracy or liberty) And you need to show the world you can, as a shining example to others!! Hang in there.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
NoCode0680
()
Date: December 16, 2011 01:48
Quote
MKjanQuote
The SicilianQuote
MKjan
I think that the Dutch government is going to experience a significant decrease in tourism,and a much less than expected decrease in crime.
So a majority of the tourists there were visiting to smoke weed?
Too bad nobody wants to see a Vermeer or Rembrandt or even a de Hooch.
Yes there is the Night Watchman and the Van Gogh museum and the Anne Frank house and lots more, but I do think a lot of people came for the weed, wouldn't call it a majority though.
Yes, there are many things to see there I'm sure. But there are other places one can go to see history, art, architecture, etc. But there is only one place that is the Mecca of the pot-smoking world, Amsterdam.
I don't know how much this drop in tourism is really going to hurt though. All the people I know that went there to visit the coffee shops (quite a few really) weren't exactly pumping a lot of money into the economy. Except the coffee shops. It would tend to be a low budget affair, backpacking, staying in hostels, etc, with the biggest part of the budget going towards weed, with some set aside to hit McDonald's or something.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: December 16, 2011 01:54
Quote
Edith Grove
The Dutch Step Backward
Bummer. I thought this was a new dance craze.
The title caught my eye too and I was thinking something along the lines of Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: December 16, 2011 02:34
Quote
winterQuote
Mathijs
Well, we sure won't miss the French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets of Limburg, The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets, the dealers stabbing you in Rotterdam, the slave-traded prostitutes from East Europe being beat up by their 'protectors', all the families who are thrown out of their houses because daddy thought it was good idea to grow weed on the attic, the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint.
Should I go on? It was a nice experiment, but it went way out of hand.
Mathijs
Sorry Mathijs, I call BS! "French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets" might have been about nationalities, football or alcohol but it wasn't because of pot. "The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets"; again, not because of pot. "The Rotterdam dealers dealing (non-pot) is irrelevant to the discussion on coffee shops. It's the world's largest port and an international city; they would be there stabbing people regardless of whether every drug in the world was legal or illegal. And if growing pot in the attic was illegal, then once again that has nothing to do with the coffeeshops being open to foreigners, but rather risktaking nationals. The sick sex slave trade and women getting beat up is not because of legal prostitution; but rather illegal kidnapping, a failure of immigration officers to crack down on who's coming into the country thru the borders and ports, the prostitution 'boards' for not enforcing who is legal to be certified and make their living that way, and the fault of neighbors, eye witnesses and police for not stopping EVERYONE who is assaulted. The lame 'finale' of "the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint" is specious at best. That's just bad parenting, and to pretend it doesn't really happen with pills, pharmaceuticals and alcohol and teens is naive. And again, it's not even a question of legality/availability, it's bad parenting. Now I'm sure certain things happen there because of the freedoms offered, but your paragraph strikes me as bogus reasoning, thru and thru.
I'm sorry you feel your national experiment has gone awry, but there are more concise things to blame that on, and getting jaded over every type of 'seedy' degenerate activity and laying it at the feet of "tourists visiting for pot" is lazy and inaccurate reasoning. Do the French and Belgians fight nowhere else, do the Brits puke nowhere else? There's a responsible way of pulling the country together responsibly without falling for the authoritarian/fundamentalist/police state mentality afflicting so many nations. If anyone can do it, you guys can! (and must, frankly. the UK/US are no longer moral role models for democracy or liberty) And you need to show the world you can, as a shining example to others!! Hang in there.
Very good response! I don't understand the link between smoking pot and Eastern European slave trade. That is more a commentary on the red light district than a cafe serving beautiful bud. It is a sham and a scam that pot is illegal, when cigarettes and alcohol ravage people's health. I was just in Amsterdam in transit and stepped out of the airport for a civilized smoke in a cafe. The owner seemed to think the law wouldn't be enforced and wondered what all the fuss was about. I have read that one reason for this reaction is the infiltration of gangs from other country's trying to control the drug trade. But then why not just beef up law enforcement measures rather than ban pot smoking for foreigners? Some day there will be sane and logical laws worldwide that allow pot to be smoked by adults.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: December 16, 2011 05:21
I never went there for the weed/hash exclusively, but it didn't hurt. And it created an atmosphere of Adult freedom. I'm sure the French & Belgians fighting in the streets of Limburg aren't getting high and doing that. It's alcohol that makes those a-holes infest the Red Light District in packs, tapping on working girl's windows with their rings, and blathering idiotic football songs at the top of their lungs. What are the Christian Democrats doing about banning alcohol, since it creates crime and gives children the wrong ideas?
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
andrewm
()
Date: December 16, 2011 08:11
Amen to the last two posts. My wife and I were in Amsterdam two years ago and while it wasn't strictly for the smoke (I get plenty of that at home and she doesn't smoke at all) it really was nice to just nibble on a cupcake all day long, wandering the beautiful city. Didn't make me want to get in a fight, never has.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Harm
()
Date: December 16, 2011 08:26
Quote
Mathijs
Well, we sure won't miss the French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets of Limburg, The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets, the dealers stabbing you in Rotterdam, the slave-traded prostitutes from East Europe being beat up by their 'protectors', all the families who are thrown out of their houses because daddy thought it was good idea to grow weed on the attic, the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint.
Should I go on? It was a nice experiment, but it went way out of hand.
Mathijs
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: December 16, 2011 09:27
I have been to Amsterdam many times and only went to a pot cafe the first time out of curiosity. These places have all the ambience if a 14 year old boy's bedroom. This city has so much to offer, including its wonderful cozy bars, that it can be enjoyed without these seedy places, which attract all kinds of trashy element. I am all for the Dutch progressive tolerance of vice, but maybe pushing it underground a bit wouldn't be a bad idea.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
HighwireC
()
Date: December 16, 2011 09:39
Once apon a time there was a story about The Rolling Stones and Sex & Drugs & Rock 'n' Roll.
Nowadays most of such old stonesfans seems to believe in the story of a virgin birth, again.
BTW: Not only the dutch, sorry ...
Nowadays most of such old stonesfans seems to believe in the story of a virgin birth, again.
BTW: Not only the dutch, sorry ...
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: December 16, 2011 09:56
Good conversation going on here. Interesting to see peoples different perspectives. Personally I find it strange that weed has been demonized while alcohol is somewhat tolerable/legal. I would also agree that Amsterdam is a great city minus the "adult' extras. I've been there about 20 times myself without smoking dope or indulding in prostitution. However, I've always admired the fact they exist in Amsterdam. This is sad news.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: December 16, 2011 10:46
I think the problem was not that soft drugs were available. The use of soft drugs by young
people in the Netherlands is very low, mainly because the thrill of doing something illegal
was taken out of it. Given a free choice many youngsters were using their responsibilities
in a right way.
There are two problems that cause the government to take these steps. The first is that the
production of soft drugs was not legalized. So that made the system out of balance. it is allowed
to buy soft drugs, but not to produce it. How to buy it then? This situation caused the many
illegal and dangerous situations where people are growing hemp on their lofts.
Second problem is that other countries did not follow the Dutch experiment. We hoped the
low usage of soft drugs would convince other countries to do the same. They didn't. Now
(heavy) users from other countries are coming to the Dutch, causing all kinds of nuisance.
I am not in favor of the policy to be more restrictive with soft drugs. I believe in the
peoples own judgement whether to use whatever they need to have a good life. I think the
Dutch experiment showed it can work to lower the use of soft drugs by young people.
But the system should be completely open.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 10:47 by marcovandereijk.
people in the Netherlands is very low, mainly because the thrill of doing something illegal
was taken out of it. Given a free choice many youngsters were using their responsibilities
in a right way.
There are two problems that cause the government to take these steps. The first is that the
production of soft drugs was not legalized. So that made the system out of balance. it is allowed
to buy soft drugs, but not to produce it. How to buy it then? This situation caused the many
illegal and dangerous situations where people are growing hemp on their lofts.
Second problem is that other countries did not follow the Dutch experiment. We hoped the
low usage of soft drugs would convince other countries to do the same. They didn't. Now
(heavy) users from other countries are coming to the Dutch, causing all kinds of nuisance.
I am not in favor of the policy to be more restrictive with soft drugs. I believe in the
peoples own judgement whether to use whatever they need to have a good life. I think the
Dutch experiment showed it can work to lower the use of soft drugs by young people.
But the system should be completely open.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 10:47 by marcovandereijk.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: December 16, 2011 16:44
Quote
frankotero
Good conversation going on here. Interesting to see peoples different perspectives. Personally I find it strange that weed has been demonized while alcohol is somewhat tolerable/legal. I would also agree that Amsterdam is a great city minus the "adult' extras. I've been there about 20 times myself without smoking dope or indulding in prostitution.
and how many times with dope smoking and prostitution indulging? just for comparative analyis....
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: December 16, 2011 17:40
Quote
71Tele
I have been to Amsterdam many times and only went to a pot cafe the first time out of curiosity. These places have all the ambience if a 14 year old boy's bedroom. This city has so much to offer, including its wonderful cozy bars, that it can be enjoyed without these seedy places, which attract all kinds of trashy element. I am all for the Dutch progressive tolerance of vice, but maybe pushing it underground a bit wouldn't be a bad idea.
14 year old boys bedrooms attracting all kind of trashy elements? Now i've heard it all. Cozy bars where brains get pickled with alcohol, that sounds more likely the cause of the fighting, the puking and the punting. Alcohol is not a vice? This is the type of hypocritical misinformation that prevents progress on the whole issue. peace.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:05
Quote
GumbootCloggerooIt's pretty far back in the death race. It's neck and neck with breaking your neck in a ballet accident.Quote
StonesTodQuote
GumbootCloggerooIt's not? I was under the impression that alcohol has surged past cancer and heart attacks by achieving historic 50 billionth death and one last great drink.Quote
StonesTodQuote
Rollin' Stoner
utter hypocrisy.....alcohol kills more people than cancer and heart attacks combined
it's not a contest
i'm rooting for syphilis...where does it rank?
I didn't even know StonesTod did ballet.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:09
Quote
NaturalustQuote
71Tele
I have been to Amsterdam many times and only went to a pot cafe the first time out of curiosity. These places have all the ambience if a 14 year old boy's bedroom. This city has so much to offer, including its wonderful cozy bars, that it can be enjoyed without these seedy places, which attract all kinds of trashy element. I am all for the Dutch progressive tolerance of vice, but maybe pushing it underground a bit wouldn't be a bad idea.
14 year old boys bedrooms attracting all kind of trashy elements? Now i've heard it all. Cozy bars where brains get pickled with alcohol, that sounds more likely the cause of the fighting, the puking and the punting. Alcohol is not a vice? This is the type of hypocritical misinformation that prevents progress on the whole issue. peace.
I am contrasting the vibe of the pot cafes with most of the pleasant traditional bars in Amsterdam. I find the regular bars much more pleasant and the pot bars seedy. Deal with it. I have nothing against marijuana - I'm a former imbiber myself. And yes, there are parts of Amsterdam where idiot tourists congregate because of the novelty of being able to smoke hash in a legal establishment, I've been there as recently as last month.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:24
Quote
71TeleQuote
GumbootCloggerooIt's pretty far back in the death race. It's neck and neck with breaking your neck in a ballet accident.Quote
StonesTodQuote
GumbootCloggerooIt's not? I was under the impression that alcohol has surged past cancer and heart attacks by achieving historic 50 billionth death and one last great drink.Quote
StonesTodQuote
Rollin' Stoner
utter hypocrisy.....alcohol kills more people than cancer and heart attacks combined
it's not a contest
i'm rooting for syphilis...where does it rank?
I didn't even know StonesTod did ballet.
The Lonesome Ballet of StonesTod is a dylan outtake....
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:26
Quote
whitem8Quote
winterQuote
Mathijs
Well, we sure won't miss the French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets of Limburg, The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets, the dealers stabbing you in Rotterdam, the slave-traded prostitutes from East Europe being beat up by their 'protectors', all the families who are thrown out of their houses because daddy thought it was good idea to grow weed on the attic, the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint.
Should I go on? It was a nice experiment, but it went way out of hand.
Mathijs
Sorry Mathijs, I call BS! "French and Belgiums getting into fights in the streets" might have been about nationalities, football or alcohol but it wasn't because of pot. "The Brits puking in our Amsterdam streets"; again, not because of pot. "The Rotterdam dealers dealing (non-pot) is irrelevant to the discussion on coffee shops. It's the world's largest port and an international city; they would be there stabbing people regardless of whether every drug in the world was legal or illegal. And if growing pot in the attic was illegal, then once again that has nothing to do with the coffeeshops being open to foreigners, but rather risktaking nationals. The sick sex slave trade and women getting beat up is not because of legal prostitution; but rather illegal kidnapping, a failure of immigration officers to crack down on who's coming into the country thru the borders and ports, the prostitution 'boards' for not enforcing who is legal to be certified and make their living that way, and the fault of neighbors, eye witnesses and police for not stopping EVERYONE who is assaulted. The lame 'finale' of "the thousands of 13 year olds who think it is normal to have breakfast with a huge joint" is specious at best. That's just bad parenting, and to pretend it doesn't really happen with pills, pharmaceuticals and alcohol and teens is naive. And again, it's not even a question of legality/availability, it's bad parenting. Now I'm sure certain things happen there because of the freedoms offered, but your paragraph strikes me as bogus reasoning, thru and thru.
I'm sorry you feel your national experiment has gone awry, but there are more concise things to blame that on, and getting jaded over every type of 'seedy' degenerate activity and laying it at the feet of "tourists visiting for pot" is lazy and inaccurate reasoning. Do the French and Belgians fight nowhere else, do the Brits puke nowhere else? There's a responsible way of pulling the country together responsibly without falling for the authoritarian/fundamentalist/police state mentality afflicting so many nations. If anyone can do it, you guys can! (and must, frankly. the UK/US are no longer moral role models for democracy or liberty) And you need to show the world you can, as a shining example to others!! Hang in there.
Very good response! I don't understand the link between smoking pot and Eastern European slave trade. That is more a commentary on the red light district than a cafe serving beautiful bud. It is a sham and a scam that pot is illegal, when cigarettes and alcohol ravage people's health. I was just in Amsterdam in transit and stepped out of the airport for a civilized smoke in a cafe. The owner seemed to think the law wouldn't be enforced and wondered what all the fuss was about. I have read that one reason for this reaction is the infiltration of gangs from other country's trying to control the drug trade. But then why not just beef up law enforcement measures rather than ban pot smoking for foreigners? Some day there will be sane and logical laws worldwide that allow pot to be smoked by adults.
I'll tell you why pot is connected to the red light district, slave trade, real estate maffia and what more -the annual turnover of soft drugs in The Netherlands is roughly 4 billion euro's. Now, while you are allowed to buy and use soft drugs in a coffee shop, and the coffee shop is allowed to sell it to you, the coffee shop is NOT allowed to buy in soft drugs from any source. So basically, 4 billion is spend by soft drug users, but it is not earned by the sellers. This leaves two questions: How does the coffee shop holder gets his soft drugs, and where does all that money go? The coffee shop holder gets his drugs via two routes: it is grown iligally in houses, attics, greenhouses, warehouses etc, by either normal people risking eveything they have (being expelled from their homes, getting tax fines for hundreds thousands of euro's etc) or by criminals. These criminals either grow it, or import it. These criminals earn loads of money, and do not only earn money with soft dugs. They import hard drugs as well (cocaine traffic is run by the same people who run the soft drugs trade), they get women from East Europe to work for them in brothels, which they just bought from all the money made from importing soft drugs. Remember, a fairly standard four floor mansion in the city of Amsterdam costs around 2 million euro's. All this 'black' money they earn (remember: 4 billion a year) must be white washed, and one of the easiest ways is to invest it in property.
This, in short, is how something that is legal in the Netherlands is actually a giant motor behind the illigal circuit.
Mathijs
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:38
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:41
Quote
NoCode0680Quote
The SicilianQuote
MKjan
I think that the Dutch government is going to experience a significant decrease in tourism,and a much less than expected decrease in crime.
So a majority of the tourists there were visiting to smoke weed?
Too bad nobody wants to see a Vermeer or Rembrandt or even a de Hooch.
Yes, there are many things to see there I'm sure. But there are other places one can go to see history, art, architecture, etc. But there is only one place that is the Mecca of the pot-smoking world, Amsterdam.
Yeah but you can smoke weed on your back porch.
Not many people or museums have access to such fine artwork than was produced by the Dutch. Some of the best Renaissance art the world has ever known.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:26
Quote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
As a resident of Los Angeles, I see the same tourists on Hollywood Boulevard taking stupid photos of hustlers dressed up as Superman or Marilyn Monroe. It comes with the territory of living in an interesting city. Amsterdam has a charm that has to be felt live. I used to go there for a couple weeks at a time and immerse myself. I can always find something new to do, like bicycling out to the countryside of North Amsterdam. To me Amsterdam is such a uniquely beautiful city that it makes me happy that people will still come there to see it when I'm long gone.
After going through a big earthquake in L.A. in '94 I remember how safe I felt it Amsterdam. I could smoke some Parvati Creme hash and not get paranoid. Being able to consume good smokeables in Amsterdam, in moderation, added to the hypnotic beauty of the place. As a long time visitor, I know what will happen now. Those amount of scary faces that come out of the dimly lit Red Light District side streets will grow as pot becomes non-available. Crime will grow, not recede. How will restricting coffee shops prevent the criminal element from still getting pot & much harder drugs into Amsterdam? Now the local residents, who will still get to go to the remaining coffee shops, will find they can make a killing selling the products they can still buy.
Those obnoxious Brits and French and Belgians who come over and take over the Red Light District on the weekends are there for the beer. They'll still go wild and puke on the cobblestones streets. But sitting outside, peacefully, at the Green House canal side, enjoying a bowl, will sadly disappear.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
GumbootCloggeroo
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:29
Well hello, Mr. Grumpy.Quote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:33
Quote
GumbootCloggerooWell hello, Mr. Grumpy.Quote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:37
""The tourist.... GDAMN THOSE FUKING TOURIST!!!!""
Has been said by locals in all 4 corners of planet Earth
Has been said by locals in all 4 corners of planet Earth
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:37
Quote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:38
Quote
Mathijs
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
how cute
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:45
Quote
MathijsQuote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
Not very nice.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:46
Quote
MathijsQuote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
I never realized that you were anti-American.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:49
Quote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district...
Exactly how I feel about foreign tourists in Times Square, New York. They clog the streets and sidewalks, they gape at the giant video screens, they take pictures of each other. All the while, real New Yorkers are trying to walk through them or go around these clueless people to get where they are going. There is nothing to see in Times Square that can't be seen in any mall in the U.S.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 19:49 by 71Tele.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:50
Quote
The SicilianQuote
MathijsQuote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
I never realized that you were anti-American.
hahaha, no I am absolutely not anti-American, certainly not. It's just a stupid joke from a famous Dutch comedian Hans Teeuwen, and when I used to work as a barman in a pub nearby the Anne Frank house it was the joke of the day for a year. It's known in Holland as 'Amsterdam humour'. German people we pointed towards the wrong direction (Do is der bahnhof, from Koot & De Bie), Belgians we pretended not to understand because they speak Dutch with an accent, to Italiens we spoke like Mussolini in a Alo Alo accent, with Brits we called the police because they always start a fight.
It was just fun out of boredom.
Mathijs
Mathijs
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 19:55 by Mathijs.
Re: The Dutch Step Backward
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:55
Quote
MathijsQuote
The SicilianQuote
MathijsQuote
Amsterdamned
The most annoying thing to me are the f*cking tourists that are too stupid to take the sidewalk (yes I know, they are a bit small) strolling in the middle of the streets taking silly pictures that have been taken a zillion times before. Where is the AF house? Where is the van Gogh museum?? Where is the RL district??? My advice to all tourists: buy a nice DVD about Amsterdam. Stay at home, jerk off and get stoned or drunk. All we have to deal with then are the few people that are still too lazy to clean up their dog's excrement.
When an American asks where the Anne Frank house is, tell him the way, with a slight remark at the end that she isn't at home at the moment. They get really insulted, always great fun.
Mathijs
I never realized that you were anti-American.
hahaha, no I am absolutely not anti-American, certainly not. It's just a stupid joke from a famous Dutch comedian Hans Teeuwen, and when I used to work as a barman in a pub nearby the Anne Frank house it was the joke of the day for a year. It's known in Holland as 'Amsterdam humour'.
Mathijs
I have been to Amsterdam five times and still have not been to Anne Frank house. Is it worth the visit?
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