As a generally biennial traveler to Amsterdam, I have seen it weather a few changes since my visit in 1994. It's gone from loosey-goosey hippieness to more corporate. I remember street cars in 1994 were painted with art and messages about community. Next time I came I think they were covered in Adidas ads. Over the years I've noticed a scaling back of open prostitution. You used to find little clumps of red lighted windows in parts of the city far from the Red Light District itself, but that seems rare now.

Just a few years back there was a clampdown on establishments selling alcohol and pot and hash on the same premises. The Green House is where I remember that happening specifically. No big deal. You could still sit outside with a bowl and meet people along the canal. Now I read that a right wing government is going to forbid tourists, I guess they mean non-Netherlanders, to buy pot & hash in the coffee shops, and that the coffee shops themselves will be limited to a certain number of members. They are supposedly trying to discourage drug tourists, and it appears there is already an outsider prohibition in border cities like Maastricht.

As we have numerous Dutch members on this board, could someone expand on what's going on in Holland? Does the government think these tourists will be replaced by a 'higher caliber' tourist? And do they really want to return to a proliferation of street drug dealers? The reason this distresses me personally is that I always looked to Amsterdam, and Holland in general, as a nice escape from the insanity of the American political system. Have you found that electing a wacky right wing government (let's say because of a fear of immigrants who won't assimilate) brings all kinds of unintended baggage with it? In our last election cycle a number of Republicans were elected to hopefully create jobs. They've done none of that, and have viciously attacked unions and spent the rest of their time trying to restrict abortion.

My ties to Holland go deep. My mother's German side of the family escaped German religious persecution in the 1500s and fled to tolerant Holland before emigrating to Pennsylvania in 1725. I get this warm feeling of freedom when I step on Dutch soil. American right wing politicians here describe Amsterdam as a depraved place where everyone's a junkie and rape is certain. They can get away with such descriptions because they know they're audience ain't going there any time soon. I did see a documentary on Amsterdam and their permissiveness regarding prostitution and soft drugs. The local government official said he liked to think of Holland as a grown up place, where they dealt with their social problems maturely. My question then, is the historically tolerant Netherlands now growing immature?

American right wing politicians here describe Amsterdam as a depraved place where everyone's a junkie and rape is certain

They must be high on something.....

Amsterdam is still liberal, as is The Netherlands. Smoking might get more difficult for tourists, but we know how to DEAL with that.

I saw the Stones in Amsterdam once, and maybe it wasn't the best performance I have seen, but it sure seemed that way thanks to legal shrooms.

If this is true, then it is a real bad decision. I've enjoyed many a weekend in Amsterdam and cilled out in various cafes - Umma Gumma being one of my favourites. I really hope they don't go down this road. The world needs places like Amsterdam and it needs them to be laid back, chilled out and open to all travellers.

Van Der Valk. The 'Cruyff turn'. Focus doing 'Hocus Pocus' on OGWT. Long sideburns and total football.

What a country.

A great country for all those reasons and more - dutch girls! Edam cheese! Tulips! Orange! Golden Earring - 'Radar Love'!

Anton Corbijn. Gruppo Sportivo. Fanny Blankers-Koen. Rutger Hauer. Chimay beer. Mayonnaise on chips!

Thanks for the compliments about our little wet country FPS (although we had the driest May in 100 years)

As my late mother always said I'm glad I live in this "Kikker landje"

My question then, is the historically tolerant Netherlands now growing immature?

Yes.....the historically tolerance in the Netherlands has become somewhat immature compare to last 50 years.

As for the smoking pot/hash, the problem is that in the cities next to the border of Belgium and Germany a lot of Coffee shops appeared only for the drugs tourist, so they decided to reduce coffee shops next to the border and selling to tourist also in Amsterdam because it's not that far from Germany or Belgium or even France.

And coffee shops are not aloud next to schools anymore, which is a good point if you ask me.

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doubledoor
I saw the Stones in Amsterdam once, and maybe it wasn't the best performance I have seen, but it sure seemed that way thanks to legal shrooms.

If you saw them in Amsterdam don't blame The Stones but the shitty sound of the Arena.

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24FPS
Now I read that a right wing government is going to forbid tourists, I guess they mean non-Netherlanders, to buy pot & hash in the coffee shops, and that the coffee shops themselves will be limited to a certain number of members. They are supposedly trying to discourage drug tourists, and it appears there is already an outsider prohibition in border cities like Maastricht.

Yes, this is pretty much what they're trying to do. The main problem is that cities along the border are being flooded with foreign drug tourists that cause all kinds of problems and are generally unwanted. Amsterdam, however, is not the same city as Maastricht, so what works for Maastricht might not work for Amsterdam. It remains to be seen if this proposed one-size-fits-all approach will become reality.

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24FPS
As we have numerous Dutch members on this board, could someone expand on what's going on in Holland? Does the government think these tourists will be replaced by a 'higher caliber' tourist?

Or not at all. The ones from neighboring countries are considered a major problem, the ones from further abroad less so, or perhaps not really at all.

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24FPS
And do they really want to return to a proliferation of street drug dealers?

Of course not. But I agree, that might happen if they go through with this.

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24FPS
The reason this distresses me personally is that I always looked to Amsterdam, and Holland in general, as a nice escape from the insanity of the American political system. Have you found that electing a wacky right wing government (let's say because of a fear of immigrants who won't assimilate) brings all kinds of unintended baggage with it?

I didn't vote for this government and I'd like to see them leave as soon as possible, mostly for reasons entirely unrelated to the ones you mentioned. However, that is very much off-topic here. I'd say that even in a country that's dominated by coalitions (as opposed to a two-party system like in the US), there's still a certain ebb and flow of action and reaction between right-wing and left-wing parties. So, if it's any consolation, the pendulum will probably swing around again sooner or later.

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24FPS
My question then, is the historically tolerant Netherlands now growing immature?

I think you're reading too much into this. We're still tolerant, we're just trying to solve some problems. I'd like to add that many of these problems wouldn't exist if other countries were a bit more lenient with regard to soft drug usage.

You also have to realize that you can just come over here when you like and leave at will. Others actually have to live in this place.

"Have you found that electing a wacky right wing government (let's say because of a fear of immigrants who won't assimilate) brings all kinds of unintended baggage with it?"

Imho a right-wing Dutch gov. will always be more liberal than say, a "socialist" British government(are you listening Tony Blair?). I'm not Dutch btw.

You might not be Dutch........but you sounds like Dutch ........always complaining "And There nothing to complain"

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NICOS - what would those problems be? I took a Dutch language course from a Dutch lady in Los Angeles a few years back. She seemed distressed about the building of a huge mosque in Rotterdam I believe.

You couldn't be more right about soft drug laws. We now have a 'medical marijuana' system in California and a few other states. A 'doctor' certifies you have a medical need and then you are allowed to buy (very high quality) pot products from a dispensary. It's a clever way to get around extremely outdated laws, but storm clouds are already on the horizon. States whose voters allow medical marijuana are in conflict with Federal Law, who still list marijuana as a dangerous drug. We had a high degree of decriminalization in the 1970s, but those were overturned when the political tone went conservative again. I'm afraid now that if the voters put in another Republican, we'd go back to the same old horseshit. Marijuana and abortion seem to be the easiest things for them to pick on, instead of creating jobs.

Doesn't Holland also still allow humane assisted suicide? Lovely place. I wish I could be bicycling in the countryside past North Amsterdam. And then drop in the 420 for some Parvati Creme.

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Vocalion
American right wing politicians here describe Amsterdam as a depraved place where everyone's a junkie and rape is certain

They must be high on something.....

Amsterdam is still liberal, as is The Netherlands. Smoking might get more difficult for tourists, but we know how to DEAL with that.

Is it certain that tourists won't be able to buy smoke in Amsterdam at all?

Seems to me, the coffeeshops are a much nicer place to buy than from street dealers, in
a number of ways, yes?

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24FPS
NICOS - what would those problems be? I took a Dutch language course from a Dutch lady in Los Angeles a few years back. She seemed distressed about the building of a huge mosque in Rotterdam I believe.

I don't want to go to politics on this site, but here you go........yes they build a huge m-osq-ue nearby Rotterdam (I could post a picture but I won't)
just search for M-aw-la-na Mo-squ-e in Rotterdam.

You couldn't be more right about soft drug laws. We now have a 'medical marijuana' system in California and a few other states. A 'doctor' certifies you have a medical need and then you are allowed to buy (very high quality) pot products from a dispensary.

Agree with this, yes we do have also a medical subscription for medical pot.

It's a clever way to get around extremely outdated laws, but storm clouds are already on the horizon. States whose voters allow medical marijuana are in conflict with Federal Law, who still list marijuana as a dangerous drug.

I must say that I see some marijuana addict in my neighbors, so I think it could be dangerous for some.

We had a high degree of decriminalization in the 1970s, but those were overturned when the political tone went conservative again. I'm afraid now that if the voters put in another Republican, we'd go back to the same old horseshit. Marijuana and abortion seem to be the easiest things for them to pick on, instead of creating jobs.

No comment

Doesn't Holland also still allow humane assisted suicide? Lovely place. I wish I could be bicycling in the countryside past North Amsterdam. And then drop in the 420 for some Parvati Creme.

No comment

;o)

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Holland used to be one of the top countries (if not the top country) in the world, especially in the 70ties. But nowadays (actually since decades) we have mostly fools who 'govern' our country. This time a outspoken right wing coalition with a very small majority that's constantly looking for support of christian fundamentalists and making deals with them. A coalition of capitalists, neo fascists, christian 'democrats' and christian fundamentalists. Have pity on us. Thank you.

Don't worry, Kleermaker! That is pretty much the political scene in the rest of Europe too. If ever there was a lack of leadership in the history of Europe - it must be right now!

By the way 24FPS, if you love bicycling, try next time if you are in Holland the dunes of The Hague the are from Kijkduin till Wassenaar



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That is the problem of course, having enough time and money to go. I usually go in the span from late April and have gone as late as early October. Utrecht is my favorite second city. I went to Appeldoorn last time and the great museum that is not far from there that houses the 2nd greatest collection of Van Gogh's after Amsterdam itself. Rotterdam is heart breaking to know it's beauty was like Amsterdam's until the Nazis, and then the Allies, to get at the Nazis, blew it to smithereens. I would like to get out to the oceanside. Now that I know about the dunes near Den Hague, I have a goal for next time.

Tot ziens

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NICOS
You might not be Dutch........but you sounds like Dutch ........always complaining "And There nothing to complain"

OK mr knowhow. And you sounds like a right wing politician. Who are you to know?

it's a pity. I enjoyed having a joint without being considered a criminal. I had actually planned to go to Amsterdam again, but to be honest I will actually not go if I can't get a good smoke. And to add that, I'm certainly not the kind of tourist they don't want.

Bostonstranglerno9, that was a joke that NICOS made. Dutch just like to complain about everything, even when there is nothing to complain about.
BTW, are you Dutch ? LOL

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Keep On Rolling

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kleermaker
Holland used to be one of the top countries (if not the top country) in the world, especially in the 70ties. But nowadays (actually since decades) we have mostly fools who 'govern' our country. This time a outspoken right wing coalition with a very small majority that's constantly looking for support of christian fundamentalists and making deals with them. A coalition of capitalists, neo fascists, christian 'democrats' and christian fundamentalists. Have pity on us. Thank you.

As usual Kleermaker doesnt know what he is talking about.

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Vocalion

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kleermaker
Holland used to be one of the top countries (if not the top country) in the world, especially in the 70ties. But nowadays (actually since decades) we have mostly fools who 'govern' our country. This time a outspoken right wing coalition with a very small majority that's constantly looking for support of christian fundamentalists and making deals with them. A coalition of capitalists, neo fascists, christian 'democrats' and christian fundamentalists. Have pity on us. Thank you.

As usual Kleermaker doesnt know what he is talking about.

You ain't talking at all.
That's worse. Have a joint. It's good for your brains.

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Amsterdamned

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Vocalion

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kleermaker
Holland used to be one of the top countries (if not the top country) in the world, especially in the 70ties. But nowadays (actually since decades) we have mostly fools who 'govern' our country. This time a outspoken right wing coalition with a very small majority that's constantly looking for support of christian fundamentalists and making deals with them. A coalition of capitalists, neo fascists, christian 'democrats' and christian fundamentalists. Have pity on us. Thank you.

As usual Kleermaker doesnt know what he is talking about.

You ain't talking at all.
That's worse. Have a joint. It's good for your brains.

Aaah, how cute, kleermakers little borther comes to the 'rescue'....

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Rolling Hansie
Bostonstranglerno9, that was a joke that NICOS made. Dutch just like to complain about everything, even when there is nothing to complain about.
BTW, are you Dutch ? LOL

Yepp and i am spending a lot of my sparetime in my friends coffee shop, and tourists from all over the world are welcome. So if youre coming to Amsterdam rolling Hansie i can show you were to go. Go were the "calimister"is

The War on Drugs Is a Failure

English
[online.wsj.com]
Dutch
[www.nu.nl]

Thanks Rolling Hanssie for backing me up.

Who are you to know? NICOS

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Has anyone actually answered the question? What are the chance smoke will be outlawed to tourists? and when is it to occure? Any help is greatly appreciated

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Bostonstranglerno9
So if youre coming to Amsterdam rolling Hansie i can show you were to go. Go were the "calimister"is

Hartstikke bedankt voor de uitnodiging, maar ik ben niet zo dol op koffieshops. Ik rook graag thuis

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Keep On Rolling