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Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 03:04

Quote
loog droog
Quote
StonesTod

ummm....pop charts and what plays on the radio are now the standard by which we judge music? ummmm....ok. so noted.



That is the point. 45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

that's what point? i thought we were discussing whether there was still quality music being made. what difference does it make whether that music is "popular" or not?

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Glam Descendant ()
Date: May 7, 2011 03:04

>45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

The top-selling song of 1966 was "The Ballad Of The Green Berets".

Do you think that was actually good?

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 03:06

the old fuddy duds on this board just wanna believe that everything was better when they were young. and, in the meantime, great music will just pass them by...

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 7, 2011 03:30

....Nuffin wrong with Nine Types Of Light ...heck it's even
gotta a couple of love songs ... David Sitek is a talent worth noting


....... Peace To Gerard Smith



ROCKMAN

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: May 7, 2011 03:38

Quote
Glam Descendant
>45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

The top-selling song of 1966 was "The Ballad Of The Green Berets".

Do you think that was actually good?

..and the biggest selling single in the UK in 1965 (and still one of the top 10 biggest ever) was 'Tears' by Ken Dodd.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 03:40

Quote
Gazza
Quote
Glam Descendant
>45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

The top-selling song of 1966 was "The Ballad Of The Green Berets".

Do you think that was actually good?

..and the biggest selling single in the UK in 1965 (and still one of the top 10 biggest ever) was 'Tears' by Ken Dodd.

kinda chokes you up, no?

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: May 7, 2011 04:34

Quote
Glam Descendant
>45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

The top-selling song of 1966 was "The Ballad Of The Green Berets".

Do you think that was actually good?


I never bought it, but it appeals to a certain audience. And as corny as it is, I'd actually prefer to listen to a song about duty and sacrifice than one in which the performer brags about how rich/sexy/bad they are, like a lot of modern music.

In fact, that song points out the diversity of popular music back then, when there was still crossover hits and Frank Sinatra was played back to back with The Troggs.

Perhaps it's better to say that good music was popular back then. Beatles, Motown, Beach Boys, Stax-Volt, the Kinks, the Who, and...what's their name? THE STONES!

Radio has been the enemy of quality for such a long time that it doesn't even compute with a lot of you that what is played on it could be good.


I always wonder why young people listen to the Stones. I'm sure they are drawn to the quality of the music, even though it precedes them, just as I might listen to Sinatra or Hank Williams.

But when you're a young person who's a little too interested in the old stuff, frankly I find it a little odd. It didn't make sense in the late 60's when I'd go to Disneyland as a kid, there would be these pale, tubby guys in their late teens or early 20's who were in little combos that would play Dixieland. Why were they so into their parents music?

Well, they were nerds.


At least if they were to argue that the new music then--in '69 or '71 was great, they would have a point.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: CBII ()
Date: May 7, 2011 04:58

Quote
loog droog
Quote
Glam Descendant
>45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

The top-selling song of 1966 was "The Ballad Of The Green Berets".

Do you think that was actually good?


I never bought it, but it appeals to a certain audience. And as corny as it is, I'd actually prefer to listen to a song about duty and sacrifice than one in which the performer brags about how rich/sexy/bad they are, like a lot of modern music.

In fact, that song points out the diversity of popular music back then, when there was still crossover hits and Frank Sinatra was played back to back with The Troggs.

Perhaps it's better to say that good music was popular back then. Beatles, Motown, Beach Boys, Stax-Volt, the Kinks, the Who, and...what's their name? THE STONES!

Radio has been the enemy of quality for such a long time that it doesn't even compute with a lot of you that what is played on it could be good.


I always wonder why young people listen to the Stones. I'm sure they are drawn to the quality of the music, even though it precedes them, just as I might listen to Sinatra or Hank Williams.

But when you're a young person who's a little too interested in the old stuff, frankly I find it a little odd. It didn't make sense in the late 60's when I'd go to Disneyland as a kid, there would be these pale, tubby guys in their late teens or early 20's who were in little combos that would play Dixieland. Why were they so into their parents music?

Well, they were nerds.


At least if they were to argue that the new music then--in '69 or '71 was great, they would have a point.

Seems like every other country I've been to music of the past is still current and liked by a wide demographic. Here in the US, the corporate airwaves and television stations have been so tightly controlled with playlists, variety is no longer an option. The corporate brainwashing playlist crap is creeping into European markets and it's a real shame. It was nice to hear Chubby Checker then Metallica within a minute of each other. It's a shame how what some call progress is really code for compartmentalization.

CBII

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 7, 2011 05:11

Well spoken, CBII. The bottom line is selling adverts. We have a pretty strong Public Service TV and radio here (in Sweden) so it's not as bad here as it seems to be in the USA - but close to.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: CBII ()
Date: May 7, 2011 05:31

Quote
Stoneage
Well spoken, CBII. The bottom line is selling adverts. We have a pretty strong Public Service TV and radio here (in Sweden) so it's not as bad here as it seems to be in the USA - but close to.

I must correct myself after reading your comment. We too have fantastic public radio stations playing a wide variety of music here in the USA. The station here in St. Louis (KDHX.ORG) have no formal playlists except what ever the DJ's want to play and you can here ANYTHING over the course of a day. Most of them can be heard loud a clear over the internet. It's a shame, way to few people in the USA even realize this great source of music and information even exists.

CBII

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: May 7, 2011 06:23

Since i live in Indonesia, I don't listen to radio any more. I could do streaming, but I prefer to make up smart playlists and listen to new stuff that I have purchased. Many times from recommendations from IORR! Some good new stuff indeed. When I am home in the US over the summer I do often take long road trips and am really frustrated by local and regional radio that I drop in on. Most times I get to a point where I just cant take it, the same shit that was played over 30 years ago, the same songs, and then a lot of new stuff that just sounds so forced and commercial. Usually, to get joy from the radio it is listening to Public Radio NPR and the cool shows that are on local public radio. There is a lot of good new stuff out there, but most the mainstream stuff is shockingly bad. Either is injected with rap/hip hop/modern r and b, or digital corporate bland rock that seems to meld together into a seamless stream of mediocrity that is shooting for the lowest common denominator.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Glam Descendant ()
Date: May 7, 2011 07:05

>And as corny as it is, I'd actually prefer to listen to a song about duty and sacrifice than one in which the performer brags about how rich/sexy/bad they are, like a lot of modern music.


a) you dodged the question re: the Green Berets song being "actually good"

b) your response exhibits a clear ignorance (or indifference if you prefer) to modern music; Rap is a very small slice of it, and what you describe is a decade-old characterization

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: May 7, 2011 07:27

Quote
Glam Descendant
>And as corny as it is, I'd actually prefer to listen to a song about duty and sacrifice than one in which the performer brags about how rich/sexy/bad they are, like a lot of modern music.


a) you dodged the question re: the Green Berets song being "actually good"

b) your response exhibits a clear ignorance (or indifference if you prefer) to modern music; Rap is a very small slice of it, and what you describe is a decade-old characterization




Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: May 7, 2011 18:07

Quote
24FPS
You don't have to move with the times if they suck. As an 'older' fan am I supposed to listen to subpar musicians do weak versions of music made better almost 50 years ago? I recognize true talent, Jack White, Amy Winehouse, the Roots, and others, but they are few and far between.

You can catch new bands every night on the last five minutes of Conan, Leno, Letterman, Lopez & Kimmell in the U.S. Most of them have zero imagination. Yeah, it's 2011, so why are you imitating music from 1971, badly? Sure, there's some older fans who stopped at 1972 and never got past Neil Young's 'Harvest', Jethro Tull, or Exile on Main Street. And no, we don't sound like our grandparents. Our grandparents had a completely different music to listen to, on different instruments. Those of us who grew up in the 60s and 70s have had to watch a new generation fumble around with rock and roll because they don't have the imagination to invent a new sound, with new instruments. There are exceptions. I hear some electronic music from Europe, or someone like Deadmau5, that are novel and fun. Even Jack White delves into this kind of material.

When I hear a group with singers that can connect to people emotionally, I'll acknowledge it. Or instrumentalists who play at a high level. Am I supposed to like rap? A music that peaked with 'The Message' in 1982? Kids have been wearing their pants down around their knees with their underwear showing since at least 1994. Maybe the older generation is spoiled. You can break down the 60s, year by year, and see great leaps forward artistically. Styles of music changed, fashion changed. Hell, here in Hollywood I'm still seeing guys wearing bowling shirts and Buddy Holly glasses, and girls wearing Harlequin glasses. It's the same shit I saw them wear on Melrose Avenue 20 years ago.

If the younger generation wants the older generation to respect them, then create something to be respected for. Where are your artists? Not your video game creators. Where are your singers creating anthems for your generation? You pussed out during the Iraq War and didn't protest at all. You think we don't respect you because we're old and cranky. We don't respect you and your music because we think you're lame.

Your sentiments pretty much express how I feel as well. I'd like to think that I am pretty open and eclectic in my musical tastes. And now that my son (who is 10 years old) is sampling music of his own, I am listening even more (to make sure that what what he is listening to is age appropriate), and sorry to say but I think that a lot of the current music out there is crap...It is almost as if artists have run out of ideas..I don't think I'm stuck in the past, but let's face it, during the 60's and 70's you had so much quality music to choose from with British rock, Motown,country-rock, glam rock, heavy metal, jazz-rock fusion, etc, etc,. IMHO, I just don't see the quality as equal to the music that I grew up listening to and I'm o.k. with that..

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Juniorjackflash ()
Date: May 7, 2011 18:42

Not sure what the point of your thread was colonial, it makes you come across pretty dim, not sure if that is a true reflection or not...

As for new stuff, this is the best song I have heard in months, dirty, grimey, loud, raw, awesome. PLAY IT LOUD. then play it again...




Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 18:56

by anyone's standard there's always been crap out there. as long as people are making music there will be gems and turds. no different today than it's ever been. ask others have said on this thread - it's the listener who hasn't made the adjustment if you think there's anything unusual or different about the quality of music being made.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: May 7, 2011 19:04

Just because someone thinks Kenny G is good does not mean he's good to me - or that he's good in general to someone that likes blues, rock'n'roll, hard rock, country music, whatever.

Just because some solo artist or band is new and has a record out and looks different or sounds "different" does not mean it's good - or bad. If one doesn't like it, that does not mean one is stagnant.

It means they don't like it. Shit is shit to the person that thinks so. It means nothing about when it came out. I used to think Bob Dylan was horrible - then one day something clicked. Now, I'm not saying I like his 1980s records, just that, in general, something changed for me. I dig his 1960s, 1970s and the last 3 records he's put out.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 19:06

Quote
skipstone
Just because someone thinks Kenny G is good does not mean he's good to me - or that he's good in general to someone that likes blues, rock'n'roll, hard rock, country music, whatever.

Just because some solo artist or band is new and has a record out and looks different or sounds "different" does not mean it's good - or bad. If one doesn't like it, that does not mean one is stagnant.

It means they don't like it. Shit is shit to the person that thinks so. It means nothing about when it came out. I used to think Bob Dylan was horrible - then one day something clicked. Now, I'm not saying I like his 1980s records, just that, in general, something changed for me. I dig his 1960s, 1970s and the last 3 records he's put out.

i'm failing to understand your point, skippy. please make your point more pointedly.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: May 7, 2011 19:52

Oh, OK.

Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: MadMax ()
Date: May 7, 2011 20:11

Colonial, as much as I don't like coldplay and shit like eurotechno and sum 89 or whatever they're called I can only agree with you. There are some good music out there still.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 7, 2011 20:17

People born in the 1940-ies are considered to be the first "youth generation", at least here in Sweden. They wore jeans, long hair and protested against the older generations. Especially that generation is having trouble getting old, they still consider themselves young and rebellious.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: rooster ()
Date: May 7, 2011 21:18

Quote
CBII
Quote
loog droog
Quote
Glam Descendant
>45 years ago there was no disconnect between great music and popular music. The stuff that was popular was actually good.

The top-selling song of 1966 was "The Ballad Of The Green Berets".

Do you think that was actually good?


I never bought it, but it appeals to a certain audience. And as corny as it is, I'd actually prefer to listen to a song about duty and sacrifice than one in which the performer brags about how rich/sexy/bad they are, like a lot of modern music.
Amen!!!
In fact, that song points out the diversity of popular music back then, when there was still crossover hits and Frank Sinatra was played back to back with The Troggs.

Perhaps it's better to say that good music was popular back then. Beatles, Motown, Beach Boys, Stax-Volt, the Kinks, the Who, and...what's their name? THE STONES!

Radio has been the enemy of quality for such a long time that it doesn't even compute with a lot of you that what is played on it could be good.


I always wonder why young people listen to the Stones. I'm sure they are drawn to the quality of the music, even though it precedes them, just as I might listen to Sinatra or Hank Williams.

But when you're a young person who's a little too interested in the old stuff, frankly I find it a little odd. It didn't make sense in the late 60's when I'd go to Disneyland as a kid, there would be these pale, tubby guys in their late teens or early 20's who were in little combos that would play Dixieland. Why were they so into their parents music?

Well, they were nerds.


At least if they were to argue that the new music then--in '69 or '71 was great, they would have a point.

Seems like every other country I've been to music of the past is still current and liked by a wide demographic. Here in the US, the corporate airwaves and television stations have been so tightly controlled with playlists, variety is no longer an option. The corporate brainwashing playlist crap is creeping into European markets and it's a real shame. It was nice to hear Chubby Checker then Metallica within a minute of each other. It's a shame how what some call progress is really code for compartmentalization.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 21:18

Quote
skipstone
Oh, OK.

Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation.

BINGO. the "oh, no...i'm turning into my parents" syndrome.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: rooster ()
Date: May 7, 2011 21:23

All that shhh about ol an new.....as tears

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: May 7, 2011 21:25

but it's true....peeps who say the new music ain't as good as the old music are just as full of it as the older generations who said the same thing when music was passing them by, too.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: rooster ()
Date: May 7, 2011 21:44

is the odd Louis Amstrong fan...still out there? thats the reason...gettin old sucks some times....look further for good things....or go back to your heaven 60 ties....and listen to the things...that escaped yoou back than....now its all here.....it wasnt like this....one of the reasons R&R is in coma? was Nirvana the last bulp?

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: organicjoe ()
Date: May 7, 2011 22:03

The late Lester Bangs wrote of Goat Head Soup, “It’s The End Of Rock ‘n Roll!” I agreed to that statement more than I didn’t. So musically call me an old bastard.
I love running and the song that makes me kick ass with fists clinched is Street Fighting Man from Brussels Affair. By the time KR, MT, and CW are finished pounding away and MJ starts whooping my lungs are about ready to explode. I’ll probably stroke out to that tune. Top that tune then or nowadays for pure energy and endurance. I really don’t care if the Stones are unable to do that today.

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: rooster ()
Date: May 7, 2011 22:17

Quote
organicjoe
The late Lester Bangs wrote of Goat Head Soup, “It’s The End Of Rock ‘n Roll!” I agreed to that statement more than I didn’t. So musically call me an old bastard.
I love running and the song that makes me kick ass with fists clinched is Street Fighting Man from Brussels Affair. By the time KR, MT, and CW are finished pounding away and MJ starts whooping my lungs are about ready to explode. I’ll probably stroke out to that tune. Top that tune then or nowadays for pure energy and endurance. I really don’t care if the Stones are unable to do that today.
they sid sure did it on the some girls summer tour....was lester there??

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: May 7, 2011 22:38

"Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation"

Your probably right here, but on the other hand I think music is played-out, there is simply nothing left then repeating and repeating...although sometimes I hear refreshing things Amy Housewine* was the last one.

* although here music was based on the 60's music

__________________________

Re: Stones Fans are Sounding more like the Older Generation
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: May 7, 2011 23:06

Quote
StonesTod
but it's true....peeps who say the new music ain't as good as the old music are just as full of it as the older generations who said the same thing when music was passing them by, too.


That is such an oversimplification.

My biggest complaint about new music is that there is nothing "new" about it. It is a rare event when you hear something that sounds really different.

If you compare music from the 40's to the 50's to the 60's to the 70's, each decade has it's own shape and sounds. In the last couple of decades, things haven't progressed. Music isn't passing me by, it's stuck in a holding pattern.

The ratio of good-to-bad has changed, unless you honestly believe that people will listen to as many albums made this year 40 years from now as they do records released in 1971.

I see a lot of new groups that take inspiration from bands of the past, but I don't hear them bring anything more to the table. No new sounds. And very alarmingly, they look like nerds.

It's a very boring time for rock and roll, and to deny that is like claiming jazz is as exciting today as it was in the '50's. Nonsense.

If you hear a new song that you think is as good as something by Chuck Berry, or the Yardbirds, or the Ramones, consider this. The groups today are just moving into a house that was already built for them. They didn't create the form, and if they don't expand or enhance it in an interesting way then I won't give them a second listen. Not because I'm "old" and only like music from my youth. It's because they are just not worthy of my attention.


In the meantime, thanks to CD reissues I've spent a lot of the last 25 years getting to know the music that preceded me or I just missed the first time around. It's not nostalgia for me to listen to Lefty Frizzell, or Don Bryant, or Tim Buckley, or Ella Fitzgerald, or Onie Wheeler.


If anything, going backwards and closer to the source has made groups that are the equivalent of a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy--or even worse, an exact digital copy--unlistenable to my ears.

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