Tell Me :
Talk
Great!
In Italy in these cases we would say "mal comune mezzo gaudio" that means more or less that it is a half releif to know that someone else has your same problem ...
Now back to the critics' section, go on, make examples that will help us understand what is so wrong with Keith's playing in SAL!
C
there's nothing wrong with it...if you like it. i presume for many like myself, it gets tiring hear the same three-note figures played ad naseum. nothing wrong with those particular three notes, but i can remembera time in the not-too-distant past when keith would routinely play a fourth note and it was a thrill to behold.
your father was merely ahead of his time...perhaps even clairvoyant....
LOL!
In any case, we are discussing Keith's alleged current inability to play the guitar.
I am still of the opinion that Keith's guitarplaying on SAL (and during most of the Bang tour) was more than competent and in many occasions excellent. He's had his good share of bad nights too, but that is another discussion.
C
the cricketts appearance...3 years ago now, was it?
it's safe and fair to say that it's unlikely, given the pain he endures with that condition of his, that he's not spending his abundant free time practicing. and therefore it's safe and fair to assume that those "skills" demonstrated last time he did play in public have only eroded even more since. common sense.
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
He would be dismissed as a shredder,playing too many notes.
Both skills have been affected. At the beacon Shine A Light show I found myself missing the powerful rhythms that used to drive the band. But even though soloing wasn't his strangth, a listen to Ya Yas will confirm that the guy could play great solos. Lately he seems almost lost, which to me has more to do with mental agility than physical.
ya-ya's. yeah, some great lead playing...in my book it's not the same thing as great soloing, but i'll just leave it at that. but, that was 42 years ago.
the point being, his forte was always the power-chording and riffing, which he PHYSICALLY cannot do....so that leaves little else but to try his luck soloing and whether his brain just can't feed information fast enough to his hands or whatever the problem is, we're left with a guy who is basically out of tools...
Why don't you just give me examples of weak riffing in the Beacon set?
C
ha - well, why don't you open the bidding and give me examples of ANY riffing at the Beacon? ;-)
i was there too and agree. but i'm interested in liddas' perspective on this.
May as well cut & paste the set list and delete Devil!
I loved his playing on all the open G songs, his single line riffing on Shattered is great (if you get used to the slower tempo), double stops riffing on Hot and Live With me absolutely furious, tasty blues licks on Champagne ... Not bad for the most embarassing guit player in the show buiz!
C
no insult intended, liddas, but you seem easily impressed. either that or you're just keith's "dream fan."
Feckin'-A. That sure is sad to read. But oh so true.
The whole thing is a dangerous combination of the physical limiations which you've described above plus his indifference to actually find a way to salvage the music.
I've been saying it for years...Keith should just permanently leave the Fender on in Open G. He has no issues with all those warhorses (BS, STU, JJF, TD etc). Forget standard tuning...power chords and solos. Just one finger can do the job. It's amazing how a partial solution to the problem is right there yet Keith isn't willing to take it.
Indeed, I was exaggerating.
But outside of these songs the suspended 4th riffing might not gel properly for other songs...thus if things are that bad...Keith can at least play the whole chord with the one finger.
i'm afraid keith would respond to this entire thread with one finger
No one remembers a mediocre stage performance - very, very true. Massive Visa bills for the tickets are a bit harder to ignore, however for that mediocre show.
[thepowergoats.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-04 21:32 by jamesfdouglas.
you don't allow me much alternatives, do you? probably I'm just keith's dream fan because I am easlily impressed, who knows. Yet people here tend to use their tongues better than a twenty dollar whore (Blazing saddles) when describing Keith's deficiencies, but facts? Nada!
C
Soloing WAS one of his strenghts. For the reasons 71Tele mentioned. His sense of timing, the stuff he played that suited the songs so well, his nerve to paint simplistic soundscapes in the songs he wrote.
Today, obviously he has problems getting it together. I'm surprised he chooses thick strings and the ES, though. IMO, he could have pulled off better thing with his Music Man and with a different sound, like in 89. But maybe his aquired taste has changed as well - he might not find the same thing as cool as he once did.
Another important thing about his playing is that his open G-rhythm playing has detoriated as well. Listen to JJF on SAL. He is only playing the riff properly a couple of times during the entire song. He rests, skips strokes and poses.
Still, he has his good moments. The rhythm playing on Shattered on SAL, a few bars on Imagination (SAL) and some of the Berry-licks on She Was Hot show that he still can pull it off.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-04 22:49 by DandelionPowderman.
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Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 4, 2011 16:01
Quote
Rolling HansieQuote
liddas
I may be one of the very few that actually likes Keith's guitar playing in the recent past tours.
Thanks mate, now I know that I am not the only one
Great!
In Italy in these cases we would say "mal comune mezzo gaudio" that means more or less that it is a half releif to know that someone else has your same problem ...
Now back to the critics' section, go on, make examples that will help us understand what is so wrong with Keith's playing in SAL!
C
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 16:57
Quote
liddasQuote
Rolling HansieQuote
liddas
I may be one of the very few that actually likes Keith's guitar playing in the recent past tours.
Thanks mate, now I know that I am not the only one
Great!
In Italy in these cases we would say "mal comune mezzo gaudio" that means more or less that it is a half releif to know that someone else has your same problem ...
Now back to the critics' section, go on, make examples that will help us understand what is so wrong with Keith's playing in SAL!
C
there's nothing wrong with it...if you like it. i presume for many like myself, it gets tiring hear the same three-note figures played ad naseum. nothing wrong with those particular three notes, but i can remembera time in the not-too-distant past when keith would routinely play a fourth note and it was a thrill to behold.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 16:58
Quote
GazzaQuote
StonesTodQuote
ineedadrinkno insult. i was merely questioning the validity of your "no matter what" comment.Quote
thewatchmanQuote
ineedadrinkwhat if he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease? you'd prefer to have him on stage in such a sad state that he makes a fool of himself for your enjoyment?Quote
thewatchman
Personally, I don't care how much his skills may have declined. I love the man dearly, (my kind of people) and want him on stage with the rest of his mates no matter what.
Of course not, take your insults elsewhere.
it would be interesting to know what it would take to keep some at home. more drooling than singing? evidence of most of the band wearing depends and checking them between every other song?
Reminds me of a mock-up picture of the band onstage which appeared in a tabloid during the last tour (after a report that Mick used an oxygen mask during Keith's mini-set) which portrayed a Stones show where the band were not only wearing oxygen masks, but were in some cases on zimmer frames or had drips attached.
My father-in-law took it literally and found it amazing that they would go on stage looking that frail and pathetic.
your father was merely ahead of his time...perhaps even clairvoyant....
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 4, 2011 17:18
Quote
StonesTod
there's nothing wrong with it...if you like it. i presume for many like myself, it gets tiring hear the same three-note figures played ad naseum. nothing wrong with those particular three notes, but i can remembera time in the not-too-distant past when keith would routinely play a fourth note and it was a thrill to behold.
LOL!
In any case, we are discussing Keith's alleged current inability to play the guitar.
I am still of the opinion that Keith's guitarplaying on SAL (and during most of the Bang tour) was more than competent and in many occasions excellent. He's had his good share of bad nights too, but that is another discussion.
C
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: April 4, 2011 17:22
When is the last time Keith played in public? Does anyone *really* know how his playing ability is now, or is it all based on the last tour?
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 17:26
Quote
Koen
When is the last time Keith played in public? Does anyone *really* know how his playing ability is now, or is it all based on the last tour?
the cricketts appearance...3 years ago now, was it?
it's safe and fair to say that it's unlikely, given the pain he endures with that condition of his, that he's not spending his abundant free time practicing. and therefore it's safe and fair to assume that those "skills" demonstrated last time he did play in public have only eroded even more since. common sense.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 4, 2011 17:48
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
ineedadrink
()
Date: April 4, 2011 17:56
what if keith richards held a press conference to play Van Halen's Eruption, perfectly note for note? would that blow your minds?
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 17:59
Quote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: April 4, 2011 18:04
Quote
ineedadrink
what if keith richards held a press conference to play Van Halen's Eruption, perfectly note for note? would that blow your minds?
He would be dismissed as a shredder,playing too many notes.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 4, 2011 18:33
Quote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Both skills have been affected. At the beacon Shine A Light show I found myself missing the powerful rhythms that used to drive the band. But even though soloing wasn't his strangth, a listen to Ya Yas will confirm that the guy could play great solos. Lately he seems almost lost, which to me has more to do with mental agility than physical.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 18:41
Quote
71TeleQuote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Both skills have been affected. At the beacon Shine A Light show I found myself missing the powerful rhythms that used to drive the band. But even though soloing wasn't his strangth, a listen to Ya Yas will confirm that the guy could play great solos. Lately he seems almost lost, which to me has more to do with mental agility than physical.
ya-ya's. yeah, some great lead playing...in my book it's not the same thing as great soloing, but i'll just leave it at that. but, that was 42 years ago.
the point being, his forte was always the power-chording and riffing, which he PHYSICALLY cannot do....so that leaves little else but to try his luck soloing and whether his brain just can't feed information fast enough to his hands or whatever the problem is, we're left with a guy who is basically out of tools...
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:07
Quote
StonesTodQuote
71TeleQuote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Both skills have been affected. At the beacon Shine A Light show I found myself missing the powerful rhythms that used to drive the band. But even though soloing wasn't his strangth, a listen to Ya Yas will confirm that the guy could play great solos. Lately he seems almost lost, which to me has more to do with mental agility than physical.
ya-ya's. yeah, some great lead playing...in my book it's not the same thing as great soloing, but i'll just leave it at that. but, that was 42 years ago.
the point being, his forte was always the power-chording and riffing, which he PHYSICALLY cannot do....so that leaves little else but to try his luck soloing and whether his brain just can't feed information fast enough to his hands or whatever the problem is, we're left with a guy who is basically out of tools...
Why don't you just give me examples of weak riffing in the Beacon set?
C
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:09
Quote
liddasQuote
StonesTodQuote
71TeleQuote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Both skills have been affected. At the beacon Shine A Light show I found myself missing the powerful rhythms that used to drive the band. But even though soloing wasn't his strangth, a listen to Ya Yas will confirm that the guy could play great solos. Lately he seems almost lost, which to me has more to do with mental agility than physical.
ya-ya's. yeah, some great lead playing...in my book it's not the same thing as great soloing, but i'll just leave it at that. but, that was 42 years ago.
the point being, his forte was always the power-chording and riffing, which he PHYSICALLY cannot do....so that leaves little else but to try his luck soloing and whether his brain just can't feed information fast enough to his hands or whatever the problem is, we're left with a guy who is basically out of tools...
Why don't you just give me examples of weak riffing in the Beacon set?
C
ha - well, why don't you open the bidding and give me examples of ANY riffing at the Beacon? ;-)
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:18
I was at the Beacon, and after a pretty strong start on JJF, there was precious little "riffing" to be had.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:23
Quote
71Tele
I was at the Beacon, and after a pretty strong start on JJF, there was precious little "riffing" to be had.
i was there too and agree. but i'm interested in liddas' perspective on this.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:35
Quote
StonesTod
ha - well, why don't you open the bidding and give me examples of ANY riffing at the Beacon? ;-)
May as well cut & paste the set list and delete Devil!
I loved his playing on all the open G songs, his single line riffing on Shattered is great (if you get used to the slower tempo), double stops riffing on Hot and Live With me absolutely furious, tasty blues licks on Champagne ... Not bad for the most embarassing guit player in the show buiz!
C
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:54
Quote
liddasQuote
StonesTod
ha - well, why don't you open the bidding and give me examples of ANY riffing at the Beacon? ;-)
May as well cut & paste the set list and delete Devil!
I loved his playing on all the open G songs, his single line riffing on Shattered is great (if you get used to the slower tempo), double stops riffing on Hot and Live With me absolutely furious, tasty blues licks on Champagne ... Not bad for the most embarassing guit player in the show buiz!
C
no insult intended, liddas, but you seem easily impressed. either that or you're just keith's "dream fan."
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
Justin
()
Date: April 4, 2011 19:56
Quote
StonesTodQuote
71TeleQuote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Both skills have been affected. At the beacon Shine A Light show I found myself missing the powerful rhythms that used to drive the band. But even though soloing wasn't his strangth, a listen to Ya Yas will confirm that the guy could play great solos. Lately he seems almost lost, which to me has more to do with mental agility than physical.
ya-ya's. yeah, some great lead playing...in my book it's not the same thing as great soloing, but i'll just leave it at that. but, that was 42 years ago.
the point being, his forte was always the power-chording and riffing, which he PHYSICALLY cannot do....so that leaves little else but to try his luck soloing and whether his brain just can't feed information fast enough to his hands or whatever the problem is, we're left with a guy who is basically out of tools...
Feckin'-A. That sure is sad to read. But oh so true.
The whole thing is a dangerous combination of the physical limiations which you've described above plus his indifference to actually find a way to salvage the music.
I've been saying it for years...Keith should just permanently leave the Fender on in Open G. He has no issues with all those warhorses (BS, STU, JJF, TD etc). Forget standard tuning...power chords and solos. Just one finger can do the job. It's amazing how a partial solution to the problem is right there yet Keith isn't willing to take it.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
ineedadrink
()
Date: April 4, 2011 20:11
3 fingers are needed to play Brown Sugar, Start Me Up etc... in open G.Quote
Justin
Forget standard tuning...power chords and solos. Just one finger can do the job.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
Justin
()
Date: April 4, 2011 20:15
Quote
ineedadrink3 fingers are needed to play Brown Sugar, Start Me Up etc... in open G.Quote
Justin
Forget standard tuning...power chords and solos. Just one finger can do the job.
Indeed, I was exaggerating.
But outside of these songs the suspended 4th riffing might not gel properly for other songs...thus if things are that bad...Keith can at least play the whole chord with the one finger.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
StonesTod
()
Date: April 4, 2011 20:19
Quote
JustinQuote
ineedadrink3 fingers are needed to play Brown Sugar, Start Me Up etc... in open G.Quote
Justin
Forget standard tuning...power chords and solos. Just one finger can do the job.
Indeed, I was exaggerating.
But outside of these songs the suspended 4th riffing might not gel properly for other songs...thus if things are that bad...Keith can at least play the whole chord with the one finger.
i'm afraid keith would respond to this entire thread with one finger
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
Justin
()
Date: April 4, 2011 20:26
HA...after he shows us the blade, no doubt.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
stoned in washington dc
()
Date: April 4, 2011 21:03
I really worry all these years of inactivity are going to mean Keith is not going to be able to play.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: April 4, 2011 21:31
Quote
flilflam
No one will remember a mediocre stage performance. We will always have the CD's and vinyl records.
No one remembers a mediocre stage performance - very, very true. Massive Visa bills for the tickets are a bit harder to ignore, however for that mediocre show.
[thepowergoats.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-04 21:32 by jamesfdouglas.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 4, 2011 21:37
Quote
StonesTod
no insult intended, liddas, but you seem easily impressed. either that or you're just keith's "dream fan."
you don't allow me much alternatives, do you? probably I'm just keith's dream fan because I am easlily impressed, who knows. Yet people here tend to use their tongues better than a twenty dollar whore (Blazing saddles) when describing Keith's deficiencies, but facts? Nada!
C
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: April 4, 2011 21:51
Keith is cool, the riffs, the demons, the ups and downs including his share of personal tragedies, the songs, the songs,
all those songs..... love to the guy.
all those songs..... love to the guy.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 4, 2011 22:48
Quote
StonesTodQuote
71Tele
What is most troubling to me is that at times it seems like Keith cannot put together a coherent solo. This is beyond physical ability. He was never the fastest player (that's not why we liked him) but his sense of timing was always spot-on. To see that go and to see him meandering so much is painful to watch (or listen to).
truth be told, soloing was never a strength of his. the problem is that with his phyiscal limitations that preclude his use of power-chording, which was his forte, his noodling or soloing deficiencies are further exposed.
Soloing WAS one of his strenghts. For the reasons 71Tele mentioned. His sense of timing, the stuff he played that suited the songs so well, his nerve to paint simplistic soundscapes in the songs he wrote.
Today, obviously he has problems getting it together. I'm surprised he chooses thick strings and the ES, though. IMO, he could have pulled off better thing with his Music Man and with a different sound, like in 89. But maybe his aquired taste has changed as well - he might not find the same thing as cool as he once did.
Another important thing about his playing is that his open G-rhythm playing has detoriated as well. Listen to JJF on SAL. He is only playing the riff properly a couple of times during the entire song. He rests, skips strokes and poses.
Still, he has his good moments. The rhythm playing on Shattered on SAL, a few bars on Imagination (SAL) and some of the Berry-licks on She Was Hot show that he still can pull it off.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-04-04 22:49 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: April 4, 2011 23:00
Quote
DandelionPowdermanGo to a consert with Buddy Guy - he doesn't play all the time. He plays here and there, has younger guys to play with him and do the big job. Of course, when he is on, he plays and sings very good - but he takes his breaks during the show. Other older blues players do the same. If Stones played smaller venues, that could be a solution - f.x. using Waddy Wachtel as carrying the music together with Ronnie. I dont mention Mick T, 'cause i don't think his health can take longer tours (based on the last few years).Quote
StonesTod
He rests, skips strokes and poses.
Still, he has his good moments. The rhythm playing on Shattered on SAL, a few bars on Imagination (SAL) and some of the Berry-licks on She Was Hot show that he still can pull it off.
Re: The hate for keith and his current guitar skills
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: April 4, 2011 23:08
This is how 'Watching The River Flow' was done.
The Stones did get together in the studio to make the track however, with each laying down their parts in separate studios around the world.
A source explained: "Charlie and Ronnie were already playing on the album and then Keith recorded his parts in New York, including 'Watching The River Flow'.
"This was emailed back to Mick in France and he sent it back with a vocal and harmonica track. Bill also put the bassline on."
So much for Stones recording a new track "together".
The Stones did get together in the studio to make the track however, with each laying down their parts in separate studios around the world.
A source explained: "Charlie and Ronnie were already playing on the album and then Keith recorded his parts in New York, including 'Watching The River Flow'.
"This was emailed back to Mick in France and he sent it back with a vocal and harmonica track. Bill also put the bassline on."
So much for Stones recording a new track "together".
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