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dcba
In 1993 if the car sucked or had bad steering Rick Rubin would send it back to the factory. I'm not sure Was would have the balls to do this... He surely realized he had a long-time gig with the Stones provided he would be a yes-man.
Rubin only lasted one album (WS) but it's a decently-produced lp. In other words RR challenged Jagger, Don Was just polishes the Twins' shoes...
BIG difference!
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stupidguy2
[The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.
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stupidguy2Quote
dcba
In 1993 if the car sucked or had bad steering Rick Rubin would send it back to the factory. I'm not sure Was would have the balls to do this... He surely realized he had a long-time gig with the Stones provided he would be a yes-man.
Rubin only lasted one album (WS) but it's a decently-produced lp. In other words RR challenged Jagger, Don Was just polishes the Twins' shoes...
BIG difference!
Yep.
I don't care how great the new Lucinda WIlliams cd is, that's a different animal.
Was has been shitting in his pants since he started working with the Stones.....
his fanboy admiration is clear. People will say that he's caught between Mick and Keith's games, not his fault because Mick and Keith have ultimate control... blah, blah...
Someone with balls wouldn't let that happen because of their professional integrity.
The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.
Was is just happy to get the key to the vaults. He ain't ever going anywhere and we're just stuck with him.
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Gazza
If Was is the wrong guy, then its Jagger and Richards' fault as his employer and for being stuck in a comfort zone.
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Rocky DijonQuote
stupidguy2
[The Stones' sound has lost its roughness, that's been a fact since the 80s....and who is at the controls? Was, unless Im mistaken. I haven't seen any other name in the production credits in decades.
Was started out doing a dance remix for them in 1989, then he mixed a live track in 1992. He didn't become their producer until VOODOO LOUNGE which was released in 1994. The music you dislike in the eighties was produced by Chris Kimsey with the exception of DIRTY WORK which was produced by Steve Lillywhite.
Since Kimsey gets the blame for UNDERCOVER and STEEL WHEELS, it might be worth noting he should likewise get the credit for SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE, and TATTOO YOU. What does all this point to? That Jagger and Richards deserve the credit or the blame for what works and what doesn't and not the guy turning the knobs and moving the faders. If Jimmy Miller was alive today and just as a great and successful a producer as he was in his prime, they would either not work with him or not listen to him if he told them to try harder. They are oo old and too rich and too proud to listen to criticism and they prefer to surround themselves with familiar faces who don't need to be broken in. It's true of producers as much as sidemen. Their choice. The buck stops with them.
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Gazza
If Was is the wrong guy, then its Jagger and Richards' fault as his employer and for being stuck in a comfort zone.
Why does it seem like Was has been around the Stones forever?
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He's pissing himself in the control room kissing the ground they walk on, tingling with rapture and awe of producing the Stones.
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Rip This
I think the Glimmers see themselves (rightfully so) as having been to the mountaintop. It's a been there, done that attitude. I don't think it matters who is producing. The buck really does stop with them.
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Gazza
.....He's produced other artists of similar greatness to the Stones. Why, 30-odd years into his career, would an experienced and respected producer be expected to still be slobbering over them like a pubescent girl?
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Rocky Dijon
It comes down to the Glimmers because they write the songs and call the shots, but they need a buffer between them partly because its difficult to be on both sides of the glass and partly to help smooth the waters between the two of them. Don has succeeded because he has both of them convinced he has their best interests at heart. Steve Lillywhite failed and didn't get a second chance because he was perceived as being in Keith's court. Additionally when the Stones moved from Atlantic to Columbia, I believe an outside producer was a contractual requirement along with minimum number of singles and music videos per album. It is understandable for labels to demand commercially successful artists (even living legends) work with producers with a proven track record with hit albums and Grammy's to their credit. They want a return on their investment. I think Don has produced a wide variety of styles with them. The rockers do not all sound the same and the mixing from one album to the next varies greatly (usually engineers are switched out regularly the past 15 years or so). Does he play it safe, sure. It's the only way to keep his job. I don't think Don saved any songs and I don't think any of them tanked because of him. VOODOO and BRIDGES are both very strong in my opinion. The quality has dropped since then, but I don't blame the producer. If Don told them that, he'd be replaced in an instant. Diplomacy is key with those two, a point Ronnie has also made as have Chuck and Bernard to a lesser extent.
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stupidguy2
The Glimmer Twins have always needed someone to kick them in the ass, even when they resisted. And great producers know how to kick an artist in the ass without the artist realizing it.
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Palace Revolution 2000
Doxa, really good stuff; but there is something not quite kosher about that recording. It's too clean for 78 live, and I hear too many guitars.
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Doxa
Don Was:
What started to dawn on me is how a five-piece rock and roll band is in many ways identical to a basketball team. That’s true of the Stones, especially, where you’ve got a center, and two forwards playing guitar, and guards on bass and drums. The Stones are like the Detroit Pistons, who are such a superb team. It’s a joy to watch the Pistons play, because of the interplay that goes on between them. It’s as if you reach a near-utopian condition, or a rare moment when men cooperate because they know it’s in their best interest as a group, and as individuals, to work together. The Pistons are always passing the ball, and they’re extremely generous with one another. The same thing is true of the Stones, when they’re at their best.
This is Fort Worth, right? I've never heard that source, though - with Jagger that low in the mix.
Don is bullshitting - "lip service" - in regards to A BIGGER BANG - there was none of five-piece chemistry left there in those sessions (there probaly weren't even five musicians at the studio together once), but this is what he is actually referring to:
"Beast of Burden" happens to be the song Dressmann uses in their telly-ads this week, and for that reason I checked some cool youtube-versions of it. The one above is maybe one of the greatest captured Stones six and half minutes ever. The "ancinet art of weaving" is in total fire there - the 'sraightest rhythm section of the world" as solid as ever but swinging like a hell, and Jagger's isnpired frontmanship.... Can it be any better?
- Doxa
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stupidguy2Quote
Gazza
.....He's produced other artists of similar greatness to the Stones. Why, 30-odd years into his career, would an experienced and respected producer be expected to still be slobbering over them like a pubescent girl?
Yeah, that's my question.
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DoxaQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
Doxa, really good stuff; but there is something not quite kosher about that recording. It's too clean for 78 live, and I hear too many guitars.
Thanks. But I don't quite follow you here. Do you mean A BIGGER BANG, VOODOO LOUNGE or probably EXILe or the possible SOME GIRLS project?
My take is that as far as the nostalgy is the business, Don Was might be the best guy there is. He respects the past and has a vision of it. I don't know other alternatives really. Now I am thinking especially the forecoming (?) SOME GIRLS project.
Okay, I know that some production ideas of EXILE bonus album hurt some ears here, but I think we need to face the reality. It is not 1971 any longer. Doing a nostalgic gig to the early 70's with the technology of 21th century is not the same thing as trying to do 100% best out of the current possibilities available in 1971. Totally different game.
I think producing over-all is a tough job actually. To me it sounds like the producers are more the children of their hey-day than the recording artists themselves. They really need to grasp the technology of the day and mix it with the artistic drive. If you were the best guy in 1964 would not mean that you were that in 1971 - just think of Phil Spector. And if ýou were that in 1971 you might not be that in 1979 (think of Jimmy Miller). I think Chris Kimsey was a typical late 70's-early 80's guy whose era was totally disappeared by the mid-80's.
I think this is the 'historicist' context of producer's reality we need to notice when we are talking about producing records. It is not that if we now take Chris Kimsey onboard and we will then have SOME GIRLS-sounding album on horizon. No more likely to happen than taking ALO back onboard and we will have another "Satisfaction" to come. It is a different world now.
So to me its sounds like Don Was is almost optimal guy to retro-projecs because he seems to "like" that kind of things - he compromises the recent technological possibilities, sound worlds and artistic ideas with the past (not to mention can able to cope with certain egos). His ambition seems to be there. That is not the case with people like Rick Rubin I guess. Maybe there might be some 'better' guys somewhere - but The Stones are not interest to make any radical changes any longer, as we know.
Seriously, would "Plundering My Soul" sounded any better with some other producer? I think, also in procuderwise, that is the best thing I have heard since TATTOO YOU. Surely, Was will not challenge them to do any interesting new music, but can we really think anyone could now?
- Doxa
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Rocky Dijon
You can't love it. Chuck Leavell plays on it and he's also the target of disgruntled Stones fans.
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KRiffhard
This is the sound we want.
George Drakoulias could be the right producer.
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bustedtrousersQuote
KRiffhard
This is the sound we want.
George Drakoulias could be the right producer.
I've never been crazy about the sound of that record. I always thought it was too modern and digital. Even though it may very well be analog, it came out when I started really noticing how bad records were starting to sound. They started sounding too generic and slick. Kind of harsh, and had lost the warmth they use to have.
I always thought this album, like many in the digital age, sounded like everything was just stacked on top of each other, instead of really meshing together. The guitars are too thin and trebly, and the snare is that awful, snappy sound that's placed too out in front of everything else. It's all I hear, and I don't like it. The rest is just the typical late 80's/early 90's attempt at 70's retro.
I like the sound of their next record, the Southern Harmony one, much, much better. Everything seems to gel, and mesh together, instead of souning like it's all just thrown on top of each other. And the guitars have a much beefier, Hard Rock distortion, but not too much. They, and everything else, aren't so generic sounding.
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KRiffhardQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
KRiffhard
This is the sound we want.
George Drakoulias could be the right producer.
I've never been crazy about the sound of that record. I always thought it was too modern and digital. Even though it may very well be analog, it came out when I started really noticing how bad records were starting to sound. They started sounding too generic and slick. Kind of harsh, and had lost the warmth they use to have.
I always thought this album, like many in the digital age, sounded like everything was just stacked on top of each other, instead of really meshing together. The guitars are too thin and trebly, and the snare is that awful, snappy sound that's placed too out in front of everything else. It's all I hear, and I don't like it. The rest is just the typical late 80's/early 90's attempt at 70's retro.
I like the sound of their next record, the Southern Harmony one, much, much better. Everything seems to gel, and mesh together, instead of souning like it's all just thrown on top of each other. And the guitars have a much beefier, Hard Rock distortion, but not too much. They, and everything else, aren't so generic sounding.
...even 'Southern Armony' is produced by George Drakoulias.