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71Tele
As for your comments about Exile's production being "sloppy": It is no such thing.

Both the production and the peformance are a bit sloppy. This is relative to high Stones standards, so it's no big deal, but I definitely think that it's not as focused as it could have been.

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71Tele
It is murky, but its murkiness has a purpose. It creates a mood. I much prefer the murkiness of Exile to the clinical cleanliness of Beggar's Banquet and (especially) Let It Bleed, even though those are great albums.

It's murky, bluesy, as well, but I can appreciate that.

Please, how is this still going on? The more I think about it the more I am embarrassed that I even replied to such a thread. Once you try to compare any post-70s album to Exile, that is the moment I know you aren't worthy enough of a Stones fan to have any type of discussion with.

Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses. Not just different ballparks, but different leagues altogether.

If you want to enjoy the more recent releases, fine (I do) but please let's all be realistic. There will never be another exile, no matter how bad you want one. And btw, the piecemeal attempt to pick/choose tracks from each of the last 3 still doesn't get you anywhere near exile. You might get close if you go back to Goats Head and then pick/choose from all albums since then.

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LeonidP
Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses.

How about Rain Fall Down and Laugh, I Nearly Died?! I think they're about as good as, if not better than, Wild Horses.

Is this topic a joke? People are entitled to their own opinions but to even ask a question such as this is baffling to me. It's like the same people that try and compare godfather three to the first two. Enough said.

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lsbz

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LeonidP
Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses.

How about Rain Fall Down and Laugh, I Nearly Died?! I think they're about as good as, if not better than, Wild Horses.

yeah, you're one of the ones that I'm talking about.

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lsbz

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LeonidP
Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses.

How about Rain Fall Down and Laugh, I Nearly Died?! I think they're about as good as, if not better than, Wild Horses.

You might be the only one!

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lsbz

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71Tele
As for your comments about Exile's production being "sloppy": It is no such thing.

Both the production and the peformance are a bit sloppy. This is relative to high Stones standards, so it's no big deal, but I definitely think that it's not as focused as it could have been.

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71Tele
It is murky, but its murkiness has a purpose. It creates a mood. I much prefer the murkiness of Exile to the clinical cleanliness of Beggar's Banquet and (especially) Let It Bleed, even though those are great albums.

It's murky, bluesy, as well, but I can appreciate that.

NOTHING about the performances on Exile is sloppy. The performances are stellar - musically and vocally. If you want to talk about the Stones' "standards" that is the very problem I have with rubbish like ABB. When you set the bar as high as Exile, it's hard to listen to the phoned-in, paint-by-numbers songs on ABB (or the three or four before it, for my money).

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71Tele
NOTHING about the performances on Exile is sloppy. The performances are stellar - musically and vocally. If you want to talk about the Stones' "standards" that is the very problem I have with rubbish like ABB. When you set the bar as high as Exile, it's hard to listen to the phoned-in, paint-by-numbers songs on ABB (or the three or four before it, for my money).

I'm not going to debate this for much longer. I have known Exile since the early seventies and played it numerous times; my opinion is not going to change anymore after almost 40 years. I thought more like you do, but I gradually changed my mind over the years. I repeat that we have had a fairly important band like Alice In Chains in the meantime, and that you can't get stuck in the past. We have to move on.

Have you heard Check My Brain?! That's great, also with the new singer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 04:59 by lsbz.

Can't get stuck in the past? What if the past was better? Is new blues better than old blues? Jazz? Would you rather hear Kenny G., or Bix Beiderbecke?

Anybody see Jack White back Wanda Jackson last night on Letterman? Holy smokes. Got to get him in a situation where we can just hear him shred live.

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24FPS
Can't get stuck in the past? What if the past was better?

Then you could still not get stuck in it, because you just can't go back to it. Experience shows that you always pick up stuff from contemporary musicians, even if you don't want to. If the Stones thought that the past was was so great, they would still be playing Vox guitars but they have been developing too. You can play good music in any time and in any style. Taking style for quality is a beginner's mistake.

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lsbz

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71Tele
NOTHING about the performances on Exile is sloppy. The performances are stellar - musically and vocally. If you want to talk about the Stones' "standards" that is the very problem I have with rubbish like ABB. When you set the bar as high as Exile, it's hard to listen to the phoned-in, paint-by-numbers songs on ABB (or the three or four before it, for my money).

I'm not going to debate this for much longer. I have known Exile since the early seventies and played it numerous times; my opinion is not going to change anymore after almost 40 years. I thought more like you do, but I gradually changed my mind over the years. I repeat that we have had a fairly important band like Alice In Chains in the meantime, and that you can't get stuck in the past. We have to move on.

Have you heard Check My Brain?! That's great, also with the new singer.

No, Exile is not going to change anymore, it's going to remain great. That's the definition of timelessness. Alice In Chains was not very important - a blip. They don't deserve to be in the same discussion as the either the Stones or Exile.

You are entitled to your opinion, but when you state that disposable ballads off ABB are "better than Wild Horses" you should expect some strong push back. Cheers to you!

As far as 'you just can't go back' to the past, of course you can. We all know the grooves are worn, but that doesn't change how good they are. And it doesn't make what's new any better. And when you get tired of old grooves, find some new old grooves, like this one.

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24FPS
As far as 'you just can't go back' to the past, of course you can. We all know the grooves are worn, but that doesn't change how good they are. And it doesn't make what's new any better. And when you get tired of old grooves, find some new old grooves, like this one.

"He jerked out his razor but he wasn't shaving". Great line. Cool find, 24FPS.

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71Tele

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lsbz

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LeonidP
Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses.

How about Rain Fall Down and Laugh, I Nearly Died?! I think they're about as good as, if not better than, Wild Horses.

You might be the only one!

No, he is not the only one. I think Rain Fall Down is one of Stones best tunes. Can't see the reason not to like it. Ageing people don't get into new music , trends, bands - so Stones fans who're growing old don't want anything new from them, only repetition of old stuff

My wife ain't Hale Berry, but i like her too much.
ABB is not EOMS, but i like it a lot (much more than the Frankestein BT

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proudmary

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71Tele

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lsbz

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LeonidP
Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses.

How about Rain Fall Down and Laugh, I Nearly Died?! I think they're about as good as, if not better than, Wild Horses.

You might be the only one!

No, he is not the only one. I think Rain Fall Down is one of Stones best tunes. Can't see the reason not to like it. Ageing people don't get into new music , trends, bands - so Stones fans who're growing old don't want anything new from them, only repetition of old stuff

Your statement is utter crap. "Ageing" fans just want the new stuff to be decent. I buy every new Stones album hoping it will be better than the last one. I listen to all sorts of music - new and old, but as for trends, you're right, I don't bother with them. That's the thing with trends, here today, gone tomorrow. Life is too short to listen to mediocre music.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-23 07:30 by 71Tele.

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KeithNacho
My wife ain't Hale Berry, but i like her too much.
ABB is not EOMS, but i like it a lot (much more than the Frankestein BT

Does your wife know you compared her to a terrible album?

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71Tele

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proudmary

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71Tele

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lsbz

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LeonidP
Same goes to those that think shite like Following the River and/or Streets Of Love are comparable ballads to tracks like No Expectations or Wild Horses.

How about Rain Fall Down and Laugh, I Nearly Died?! I think they're about as good as, if not better than, Wild Horses.

You might be the only one!

No, he is not the only one. I think Rain Fall Down is one of Stones best tunes. Can't see the reason not to like it. Ageing people don't get into new music , trends, bands - so Stones fans who're growing old don't want anything new from them, only repetition of old stuff

You statement is utter crap. "Ageing" fans just want the new stuff to be decent. I buy every new Stones album hoping it will be better than the last one. I listen to all sorts of music - new and old, but as for trends, you're right, I don't bother with them. That's the thing with trends, here today, gobn tomorrow. Life is too short to listen to mediocre music.

i second that motion, tele. i'm an old guy and i listen to music all day long from every generation of music - from gregorian chants to modern hip-hop and everything in between. there's a ton of great rock'n'roll bands, both old and new that are still making great music on a regular basis. the stones, sadly, just don't happen to be among them.....

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71Tele
Life is too short to listen to mediocre music.

well-said; although i might add that mediocrity is in the ear of the beholder - i don't claim my tastes are better than anyone else's.

but life is waaaay too short to try to like something - like most of ABB - just because you're a fan of the band - when there's TONS of great music out there just waiting to be listened to....or something.

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71Tele
... Exile is not going to change anymore, it's going to remain great.

I never contradicted that; I agree.

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71Tele
That's the definition of timelessness.

Quality is timeless, but style can become outdated. As an example, one song from the fifties that I like is Venus by Frankie Avalon; I think it's an extraodinary track. But while we psychologically still have much in common with the theme of that song, we don't think like the people in the fifties anymore so we would not record in that style anymore either. It's a natural development to adapt the music a bit to the spirit of the time.

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71Tele
Alice In Chains was not very important - a blip. They don't deserve to be in the same discussion as the either the Stones or Exile.

I think they do in as much as rock style is concerned. You may not like them, but there are people who do, and they're not going away. They have been influential, and for good reasons that you apparently, and unfortunately, don't see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 18:17 by lsbz.

Look, Laugh I Nearly Died and Rain Fall Down are fine songs but compared to Wild Horses???????? That is a joke!!!! Wild Horses is one of the best tracks the Stones or any other band has ever produced. About getting stuck in the past yes Rolling Stones fans true ones are stuck in the past! Why? Because the past is when they were the Greatest Rock 'N' Roll Band in The World! And to my ears there has never been a better one. But T\they are not that band anymore.

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slew
Wild Horses is one of the best tracks the Stones or any other band has ever produced.

I don't know; it's an important track, but it certainly has some issues. The other song that the ballads of ABB were compared with was No Expectations, and I think that's much stronger. And I agree that Following The River and Streets Of Love are not good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 19:33 by lsbz.

'Ageing People Don't Get Into New Music' - proudmary

Really? Seriously? My year-end compilation for 2010 features a mix of new, whatever PMS is, and songs that are old but new to my ears or being dragged back after a dormancy. Actually I think it takes an experienced ear to know that ABB is mostly crap. Not all of it, but I certainly don't feel the pull to listen to it like I do older Stones' albums.


1) Police on My Back – Clash 1980
2) International Flight – David Snell
3) Real Wild Child – Jerry Lee Lewis 1958
4) Joro Boro – Balkan Beat Box
5) Cumbion Mountain – Cico Sonida & Toy Selecta
6) Plundered My Soul – Rolling Stones
7) Fembot – Robyn
8) Hot-n-Fun – N.E.R.D.
9) Twelve Thirty – The Mamas & Papas 1967
10) Ghetto Red Hot – Supercat
11) Traffic Jam – Artie Shaw & his Orchestra 1939
12) Lykke Li – Get Some
13) Doin’ It – L.L. Cool J
14) Pa’ Bailar – Bajofondo
15) Sign The Dotted Line – Jeff Magnum
16) Six Feet Under – Thomas Newman
17) Hoochie Mama – 2 Live Crew 1995
18) Leysh Nat’arak – Natacha Atlas
19) A Real Mother For Ya – Johnny ‘Guitar’ Watson 1977
20) No Sex – Chris Rock

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StonesTod

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71Tele
Life is too short to listen to mediocre music.

well-said; although i might add that mediocrity is in the ear of the beholder - i don't claim my tastes are better than anyone else's.

I agree. I like ABB, you don't. It doesn't mean your taste is worse than mine. But I prefer Sticky Fingers and Exile - I guess that's our common ground

Still, I think Rain Fall Down is one of Stones' best songs
As for Wild Horses I found that sentence - wild horses couldn't drug me away - being as much of cliche as possible



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 19:50 by proudmary.

What issues does Wild Horses have? The track is awesome.

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slew
What issues does Wild Horses have?

The rhythm's not always stable; probably partly due to the arrangement. The vocals are a bit too emotional, and the composition as a whole is a bit dubious; maybe a little over the top. To my taste, it also has some flaws; that's often connected.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-22 23:28 by lsbz.

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lsbz

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slew
What issues does Wild Horses have?

The rhythm's not always stable; probably partly due to the arrangement. The vocals are a bit too emotional, and the composition as a whole is a bit dubious; maybe a little over the top.

Got to be the silliest description of Wild Horses I have ever read.

I always thought the vocal was quite restrained and wistful.

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proudmary
I like ABB, you don't. It doesn't mean your taste is worse than mine...

Still, I think Rain Fall Down is one of Stones' best songs
...

ok, but that certainly means that your taste is worse than mine - no reasonable Stones fan could possibly fit Rain Fall Down in their top 200 Stones' tracks.

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lsbz

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71Tele
... Exile is not going to change anymore, it's going to remain great.

I never contradicted that; I agree.

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71Tele
That's the definition of timelessness.

Quality is timeless, but style can become outdated. As an example, one song from the fifties that I like is Venus by Frankie Avalon; I think it's an extraodinary track. But while we psychologically still have much in common with the theme of that song, we don't think like the people in the fifties anymore so we would not record in that style anymore either. It's a natural development to adapt the music a bit to the spirit of the time.

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71Tele
Alice In Chains was not very important - a blip. They don't deserve to be in the same discussion as the either the Stones or Exile.

I think they do in as much as rock style is concerned. You may not like them, but there are people who do, and they're not going away. They have been influential, and for good reasons that you apparently, and unfortunately, don't see.

Yes, things can become outdated, but we are were talking Exile here. It was had almost 40 years to sound outdated and it never has. I just played it for someone (the vinyl) in her 20s an hour ago in fact, and she was blown away. Had never heard it! We can certainly disagree on whether we think Alice In Chains will have that kind of staying power in 40 years. My bet is no. And I never said there weren't people who like them. I live in Seattle and went through the whole grunge thing. I had to hear about how great they were all the time. I don't hear that so much anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-23 07:35 by 71Tele.